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CaughtintheMiddle1990
02-11-2010, 08:03 AM
I know many conservatives, especially those more of the Libertarian variety, espouse that we should decriminalize or all together legalize drugs--Marijuana in particular--But I have to ask why? I mean I know a ton of social conservatives don't support legalizing Marijuana or other drugs but there are many social libertarians yet staunch fiscal conservatives who support legalizing Marijuana and even in some cases other, stronger drugs.

Now, don't get me wrong--I've tried Pot. Once, and hated it. I've drank, a few times, never really found it appealing. So it's not like I'm some anti-drug and alcohol person who hasn't at least tried. And no, I'm not for banning alcohol as we saw how well that went the last time.

But why legalize Pot or other drugs? Sure there might be a monetary gain but one would be basically profiting another's misery, profiting off of jeopardizing one's health. And yes, there is the personal responsibility argument, both of these arguments being used for fast food (for example, a person against drugs being legalized because they are unhealthy will sometimes be confronted by libertarians or liberals with 'well fast food is unhealthy should we ban it too?')

However, there is a grave difference between fast food and drugs. A person can eat all the junk food he or she desires yet it won't make them violent, paranoid, abusive, or otherwise dangerous or hostile. Fast food can't make someone hallucinate. Drugs can and in many cases, even 'benign' drugs like Marijuana do--and for many users that's the point of using them--to get 'High'.

Now a junkie shooting up Heroin and dying in some gutterr on his own--That's his business. But I oppose drugs not because of how they directly affect the user, but how they effect the user's family, friends, etc. I say this as a child of a person who had/has substance abuse issues. Sure, for a person like my father, it's his ''personal choice'' to do the things he does; However, it wasn't my personal choice to be born his child nor was it my personal choice to live with the effects of his usage--I was forced to deal with it simply because I was born me.Horrible experiences, many a Holiday or Birthday ruined. Unlike fast food, drugs and alcohol in the wrong hands are weapons, weapons that can be used to hurt in many ways. I know because I've been on the receiving end.

So why legalize drugs? I know this is a "Big Government" idea but my opinion or an idea anyway is that someone who has been arrested and convicted of a drug or alcohol related offense (particularly a drug related offense which has resulted in violence) at least three or more times over a five or ten year period should be sterilized. People who have a continuing abuse problem I don't think should have children. I'm not talking about a 18 year kid with a bag of pot on his first offense, I'm talking a history of arrests for possesion or long term addiction to hard drugs, or long-term alcoholics. If not sterilization, then I think people with a repeat history of drug related and/or violent offenses over a prolonged period should at least be subject to psychological evaluation of some sort before being allowed to procreate or tracking of some sort. Similar to the way convicted pedophiles are monitored state to state and have to report to the state before moving, etc.
People say ''well, they have a disease, they need rehab'' yet the same people will say ''fuck rehabiliating rapists/murderers/etc" I think in a sense having a parent or family member with a substance abuse problem is in it's own way a rape it is for many children the end of innocence, and many children with a parent who has substance abuse has to sacrifice in some ways their childhood to bear the burdens of their parents' problems.

I know even some social cons might disagree with me on this, but...I'll put it this way--If gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, why should repeat drug/alcohol offenders who have at least a five to ten year history of drug related problems, particularly those with violent offenses, be allowed to procreate? It isn't intended a limitation on the offender's freedom or a punishment but a protection--Why should a child, any child, be subjected to it? I know of quite a few Junkies who have had lifelong habits yet never been arrested and have slipped under the radar and yet have had kids and subjected them to their addiction. An addiction isn't something one MUST have or MUST do--there's something called self control. I don't believe drug or alcohol addiction is a disease; in some it may be a means of coping with stressors but for many it's simply a way to get "High" and they don't give a damn who they hurt in the process of attaining their high.

It's similar to the Military way of thinking with regard to medical issues--A person with certain medical problems won't be enlisted not simply because of the risk their medical problem puts on them, if there is even any risk to them, but because of the risk they present to their fellow soldiers and even perhaps to their mission.

marv
02-11-2010, 10:46 AM
I drink and I smoke - tobacco. And I'm unalterably opposed to legalizing illegal drugs. I've never used them. Period.

"Medical" marijuana was just a camel's nose under the tent. It's nothing more than the beginning of a slippery slope. My position on that got me kicked off another board, oriented to Ford trucks of all things, because so many members smoked pot, and I got into many arguments about it.

Claiming that it was necessary to relieve pain completely ignored the fact that THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is available in pill form by prescription. It was clear that they weren't interested in "relieving pain", but simply getting a higher high than mere alcohol provides. And they didn't care that marijuana causes genetic damage. Hint: anybody ever wonder about the increasing incidents of children needing mood altering drugs?

Yes, I remember the drug addicted sixties and seventies.

wilbur
02-11-2010, 10:53 AM
I drink and I smoke - tobacco. And I'm unalterably opposed to legalizing illegal drugs. I've never used them. Period.

"Medical" marijuana was just a camel's nose under the tent. It's nothing more than the beginning of a slippery slope. My position on that got me kicked off another board, oriented to Ford trucks of all things, because so many members smoked pot, and I got into many arguments about it.

Claiming that it was necessary to relieve pain completely ignored the fact that THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is available in pill form by prescription. It was clear that they weren't interested in "relieving pain", but simply getting a higher high than mere alcohol provides. And they didn't care that marijuana causes genetic damage. Hint: anybody ever wonder about the increasing incidents of children needing mood altering drugs?


Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
02-11-2010, 10:58 AM
Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.

If it's a prescription drug, it shouldn't too expensive if one has insurance. Even many anti-anxiety pills, for example, aren't that expensive without insurance.
What's the matter, it doesn't make you as high as the real thing?

ralph wiggum
02-11-2010, 11:00 AM
I drink and I smoke - tobacco.

How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

:D

Apache
02-11-2010, 11:52 AM
How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

:D

On the rocks....:cool:

marv
02-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.
You sound experienced........

How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

:D
Did you get fooled by the hyphen? I drink vodka........:D

wilbur
02-11-2010, 03:49 PM
If it's a prescription drug, it shouldn't too expensive if one has insurance. Even many anti-anxiety pills, for example, aren't that expensive without insurance.
What's the matter, it doesn't make you as high as the real thing?

I don't know bout you, but in my experience plenty of drugs are prohibitively expensive, even with insurance. If one needs several meds, it adds up very quickly.

In the case of THC - its cheap and easy to attain in its natural form, and is often more effective - or least more effective over a certain range of cases than its synthetic (and expensive) counterpart.

wilbur
02-11-2010, 04:04 PM
But in regards to the OP:



But why legalize Pot or other drugs? Sure there might be a monetary gain but one would be basically profiting another's misery, profiting off of jeopardizing one's health. And yes, there is the personal responsibility argument, both of these arguments being used for fast food (for example, a person against drugs being legalized because they are unhealthy will sometimes be confronted by libertarians or liberals with 'well fast food is unhealthy should we ban it too?')

The reasons for legalization are numerous, and compelling - here are a few:

* Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders
* There is a tremendous opportunity cost associated with drug offenses - our police resources could be used for more serious and troubling crime problems.
* In our zeal to stamp out drugs, civil liberties are eroded by unreasonable laws - many of which would be found unconstitutional outside the context of the "drug war" (especially when it comes to seizure laws).
* Drug laws are ineffective at reducing drug use anyways.
* Leaving such moral issues to personal liberty is the consistent small government, libertarian and conservative position.
* Its inconsistent to have legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco while drugs like pot, mdma and cocaine remain illegal.
* If someone commits a crime or injustice while under the effects of a drug, we do not need drug laws to punish them - laws against the act in question work just fine.

It all boils down to this:

* Drug laws come at a heavy cost to society, and none of their benefits surpass that cost.

djones520
02-11-2010, 04:10 PM
But in regards to the OP:



The reasons for legalization are numerous, and compelling - here are a few:

* Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders
* There is a tremendous opportunity cost associated with drug offenses - our police resources could be used for more serious and troubling crime problems.
* In our zeal to stamp out drugs, civil liberties are eroded by unreasonable laws - many of which would be found unconstitutional outside the context of the "drug war" (especially when it comes to seizure laws).
* Drug laws are ineffective at reducing drug use anyways.
* Leaving such moral issues to personal liberty is the consistent small government, libertarian and conservative position.
* Its inconsistent to have legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco while drugs like pot, mdma and cocaine remain illegal.
* If someone commits a crime or injustice while under the effects of a drug, we do not need drug laws to punish them - laws against the act in question work just fine.

1. Could you please provide numbers on how many non-violent drug offenders there are in our prison systems?
2. Throughout high school, I know many "low grade" drug users who were given a slap on the wrist when busted. Police never actively sought them, and as far as I could tell no significant resources were spent on catching them. Could you provide numbers on how much is "wasted" on getting those non-violent offenders?
3. What civil liberties of yours have been eroded?
4. They've kept me from doing them.
5. Our Constution provides our government with the powers to ensure national defence. Since a huge amount of drug money goes towards funding things like terrorism, or violent crimes, I view it as being in their power to combat the drug trade.
6. Alchohal and Tobacco production has been a staple production of our national economy since the beginning. Georgian tobacco farmers don't give money to Al Qaeda.
7. Yet you advocate the Hate Crimes Bill?

wilbur
02-11-2010, 04:20 PM
1. Could you please provide numbers on how many non-violent drug offenders there are in our prison systems?
2. Throughout high school, I know many "low grade" drug users who were given a slap on the wrist when busted. Police never actively sought them, and as far as I could tell no significant resources were spent on catching them. Could you provide numbers on how much is "wasted" on getting those non-violent offenders?
3. What civil liberties of yours have been eroded?
4. They've kept me from doing them.


Cato has the answers to most of your questions:

http://www.cato.org/drug-war



5. Our Constution provides our government with the powers to ensure national defence. Since a huge amount of drug money goes towards funding things like terrorism, or violent crimes, I view it as being in their power to combat the drug trade.


If drugs were legal, then this wouldn't be a problem eventually - though its controversial that its a problem now. Few drugs fund any kind of terrorist - opium or heroine possibly, but certainly nothing else.

But the drug war keeps drugs expensive, giving terrorists or other unsavory people an easy opportunity to become extremely rich. The tremendous profit motive results in an arms race between the US and drug lords - in other words, the drug war creates heavily armed, wealthy war lords. Cheap, affordable legal drugs would ideally starve such organizations financially.

So the drug war is good for terrorists.



6. Yet you advocate the Hate Crimes Bill?

No, I really don't. But that doesnt stop me from criticizing people's wrong arguments against them.

FeebMaster
02-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Why legalize drugs?

Because the War on Drugs has been the single greatest excuse for expanding the power of government in most of our lifetimes.

expat-pattaya
02-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Why legalize drugs?

Because the War on Drugs has been the single greatest excuse for expanding the power of government in most of our lifetimes.

Works for me.

I think this issue has been thrashed about before. There are those who beleive that there would be an outbreak of new junkies, and those who believe there would be FEWER users if the forbidden and profit motives were removed.

For me, I feel it is time to try something different. What we are doing is more destructive than Al Queda and swine flu combined.

Rockntractor
02-11-2010, 08:54 PM
What we are doing is more destructive than Al Queda and swine flu combined.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/Swine_says_sorry-748860.jpg?t=1265939593

AlmostThere
02-12-2010, 01:56 AM
I drink and I smoke - tobacco. And I'm unalterably opposed to legalizing illegal drugs. I've never used them. Period.

"Medical" marijuana was just a camel's nose under the tent. It's nothing more than the beginning of a slippery slope. My position on that got me kicked off another board, oriented to Ford trucks of all things, because so many members smoked pot, and I got into many arguments about it.

Claiming that it was necessary to relieve pain completely ignored the fact that THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is available in pill form by prescription. It was clear that they weren't interested in "relieving pain", but simply getting a higher high than mere alcohol provides. And they didn't care that marijuana causes genetic damage. Hint: anybody ever wonder about the increasing incidents of children needing mood altering drugs?

Yes, I remember the drug addicted sixties and seventies.
There are definitely some legitimate uses for medical marijuana. The pill form, Marinol, is not nearly as effective as cannabis. That is simply a fact. My wife's (soon to be x) company makes Marinol. As such I can get prescriptions filled for free but I don't because it just doesn't cut it. In California, a hangnail will get you a script. But in most if not all of the other 13 states, you have to have a condition on their list. And the list isn't very long. Why don't you try telling someone who has a serious condition that warrants the use of medical marijuana that they can't have something that DOES help. Be sure to be holding an alcoholic drink in your hand and a cigarette in your mouth while you do.

I am someone who lives with a disease, 24/7/365, that medical marijuana does help. And I'll be honest, it really pisses me off when someone goes off on the evils of medical marijuana when they don't know what the hell they are talking about. And for icing on the cake you drink booze and smoke cigarettes while doing it. BTW, I don't drink or smoke cigarettes.

noonwitch
02-12-2010, 08:47 AM
Why legalize drugs?

Because the War on Drugs has been the single greatest excuse for expanding the power of government in most of our lifetimes.



Some of the search and seizure policies enacted in the War on Drugs are beyond belief. The government can confiscate someone's property and money before a court orders it. That kind of thing opens the door to corruption at the highest levels.

NJCardFan
02-12-2010, 09:51 AM
Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.

OK, how about the genius who ate medical marijuana cookies on an airplane recently, and went all batshit to the point a flight attendant had to take him down. I'd say that was a pretty nasty side affect. Besides, the only ones who want weed legalized are hippies left over from the 60's and stoners. I do agree that drugs should be decriminalized. Ever wonder why the prisons are so overcrowded? I've seen inmates who got busted with an ounce of coke that was found on them within 500 feet of school get harsher sentences than child molesters.

marv
02-12-2010, 01:05 PM
My wife and her first husband adopted two children when they were pre-school. Both got into marijuana. Eventually, both dropped out of highschool and took up burglary to support their habits. Both wound up with long rap sheets for their efforts. Now in their late forties, one is happy to have a job flipping hamburgers, and the other is a handyman and can hardly write his own name. The tragedy is that their step-dad was a wealthy physician.

A fellow on that board I got kicked off of for my views on marijuana loved his motorcycle and his marijuana. He would smoke and go for long midnight rides as he would tell. He flipped at an intersection, and lost a leg. Then went to length complaining to doctors about his pain and his artificial leg. He kept smoking and riding and flipped again. He didn't lose his other leg, but he really bunged up his stump! He still smoked the last I heard.

I have two nieces who got into marijuana and couldn't maintain marriages. Both have children. One wrote me needing rent money and begged for money promising to pay it back. I sent her $100. I never heard from her again.

Now you know the rest of the story.

So when I hear someone saying the THC pill form isn't as effective as smoking pot, I say that it's because you don't get high off the pill like you do smoking. Spare me...

AlmostThere
02-12-2010, 01:09 PM
OK, how about the genius who ate medical marijuana cookies on an airplane recently, and went all batshit to the point a flight attendant had to take him down. I'd say that was a pretty nasty side affect. Besides, the only ones who want weed legalized are hippies left over from the 60's and stoners. I do agree that drugs should be decriminalized. Ever wonder why the prisons are so overcrowded? I've seen inmates who got busted with an ounce of coke that was found on them within 500 feet of school get harsher sentences than child molesters.

Any chance you think he was bullshitting? I've been around a fair amount of people who've smoked or ingested pot in edibles and I'm calling bullshit on his alibi. You described people who smoke pot as stoners. Stoners don't act batshit crazy. He showed his ass and needed something to lay the blame on other than himself.

This is stuff I take on a daily basis. It doesn't include the injections I have to give myself. Those are kept in the refrigerator. Some of these are for neuropathic pain, 1 for tremor and a several for muscle spasticity that I guarantee you would not want to deal with. Trust me. The drugs I take for the muscle spasticity also have the wonderful benefit of being pretty bad for my liver. So I get blood tests regularly to make sure my liver isn't being destroyed to quickly. I'm a pretty heavy-duty drug user, wouldn't you agree? Oh, in the second drawer down in the picture is stuff I take/use, but not on a daily basis.

OR....

I can smoke a little pot and I don't need the drugs for the neuropathic pain, the tremor or the muscle spasticity. If that makes me a stoner, so be it.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z82/lap0118/topdrawer.jpg

AlmostThere
02-12-2010, 01:47 PM
So when I hear someone saying the THC pill form isn't as effective as smoking pot, I say that it's because you don't get high off the pill like you do smoking. Spare me...

About the only thing I can say is this;

Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the ignorant, the courage to debate the honest, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Sir, I don't know you personally. But I do know that you have no idea what you are talking about; you don't have a clue. I wouldn't wish my illness on an enemy. But sir, if you got to experience it for a short period of time, I'd be really interested to know what your perspective was then. It is so easy to make judgments on anecdotal evidence, isn't it?

When I was little boy I saw my father punch out my grandmother. He was a mean, abusive excuse for a human being. When he wasn't blowing his money in bars, he was out chasing women other than my mom. He didn't smoke pot, he just drank. I really don't think that because someone drinks they are destined to become a rotten bastard of his caliber.

linda22003
02-12-2010, 01:48 PM
OK, how about the genius who ate medical marijuana cookies on an airplane recently, and went all batshit to the point a flight attendant had to take him down. I'd say that was a pretty nasty side affect.

I'd say it was the first time in recorded history that marijuana had that affect on someone.

noonwitch
02-12-2010, 01:50 PM
My wife and her first husband adopted two children when they were pre-school. Both got into marijuana. Eventually, both dropped out of highschool and took up burglary to support their habits. Both wound up with long rap sheets for their efforts. Now in their late forties, one is happy to have a job flipping hamburgers, and the other is a handyman and can hardly write his own name. The tragedy is that their step-dad was a wealthy physician.

A fellow on that board I got kicked off of for my views on marijuana loved his motorcycle and his marijuana. He would smoke and go for long midnight rides as he would tell. He flipped at an intersection, and lost a leg. Then went to length complaining to doctors about his pain and his artificial leg. He kept smoking and riding and flipped again. He didn't lose his other leg, but he really bunged up his stump! He still smoked the last I heard.

I have two nieces who got into marijuana and couldn't maintain marriages. Both have children. One wrote me needing rent money and begged for money promising to pay it back. I sent her $100. I never heard from her again.

Now you know the rest of the story.

So when I hear someone saying the THC pill form isn't as effective as smoking pot, I say that it's because you don't get high off the pill like you do smoking. Spare me...



Were they irresponsible people before they started smoking weed? I don't buy into the whole disease concept bull when it comes to addiction, anyways. Violent drunks are violent people who use alcohol as an excuse for their violence. Irresponsible potheads are irresponsible people blaming their use of pot as their reason for being irresponsible.

In Detroit, marijuana is de facto legal. With the city's voters having previously approved medical marijuana and with the success of the state's ballot initiative, pretty much anyone over 40 has some condition that meets the criteria, and there are not enough police on the city's payroll to enforce the provisions.

wilbur
02-12-2010, 03:11 PM
My wife and her first husband adopted two children when they were pre-school. Both got into marijuana. Eventually, both dropped out of highschool and took up burglary to support their habits. Both wound up with long rap sheets for their efforts. Now in their late forties, one is happy to have a job flipping hamburgers, and the other is a handyman and can hardly write his own name. The tragedy is that their step-dad was a wealthy physician.

A fellow on that board I got kicked off of for my views on marijuana loved his motorcycle and his marijuana. He would smoke and go for long midnight rides as he would tell. He flipped at an intersection, and lost a leg. Then went to length complaining to doctors about his pain and his artificial leg. He kept smoking and riding and flipped again. He didn't lose his other leg, but he really bunged up his stump! He still smoked the last I heard.

I have two nieces who got into marijuana and couldn't maintain marriages. Both have children. One wrote me needing rent money and begged for money promising to pay it back. I sent her $100. I never heard from her again.

Now you know the rest of the story.

So when I hear someone saying the THC pill form isn't as effective as smoking pot, I say that it's because you don't get high off the pill like you do smoking. Spare me...

As others have pointed out, one could fill a library with such anecdotes in regards to alcohol. A vice in which you currently partake. As such, I do not suspect you would like a prohibition on alcohol. I think most people here - and perhaps you included - would say that outlawing alcohol would be an unacceptable encroachment of personal liberty at the hands of the government. Well... so it is with cannabis and most other currently illegal narcotics.

And I'm not sure where you're getting your information on the THC prescription pills but... THC is the active ingredient in pot, and a synthetic THC is the active ingredient in the pills. THC is the stuff that gets you high, so I don't know why you think the pills don't have that effect. THC pills do get you high.

Furthermore, the implication you seem to want us to draw from your anecdotes, though you don't say it outright, is that situations like them would be measurably less common in a society under a drug prohibition, than they would be in a society without one. I don't think they would be - its pretty well accepted that legality has little or no bearing on the decision to try (or not to try) drugs, for the vast majority of people. If they legalized heroine tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't be rushing out to buy it - would you?

The Night Owl
02-13-2010, 07:48 PM
1. Could you please provide numbers on how many non-violent drug offenders there are in our prison systems?

2. Throughout high school, I know many "low grade" drug users who were given a slap on the wrist when busted. Police never actively sought them, and as far as I could tell no significant resources were spent on catching them. Could you provide numbers on how much is "wasted" on getting those non-violent offenders?

Sam Harris on the drug war:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN0_aJsPcHY



...

The consequences of our irrationality on this front are so egregious that they bear closer examination. Each year, over 1.5 million men and women are arrested in the United States because of our drug laws. At this moment, somewhere on the order of 400,000 men and women languish in U.S. prisons for nonviolent drug offenses. One million others are currently on probation. More people are imprisoned for nonviolent drug offenses in the United States than are incarcerated, for any reason, in all of Western Europe (which has a larger population). The cost of these efforts, at the federal level alone, is nearly $20 billion dollars annually. The total cost of our drug laws – when one factors in the expense to state and local governments and the tax revenue lost by our failure to regulate the sale of drugs – could easily be in excess of $100 billion dollars each year. Our war on drugs consumes an estimated 50 percent of the trial time of our courts and the full-time energies of over 400,000 police officers. These are resources that might otherwise be used to fight violent crimes and terrorism.

In historical terms, there was every reason to expect that such a policy of prohibition would fail. It is well known, for instance, that the experiment with prohibition of alcohol in the United States did little more than precipitate a terrible comedy of increased drinking, organized crime, and police corruption. What is not generally remembered is that Prohibition was an explicitly religious exercise, being the joint product of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union and the pious lobbying of certain Protestant missionary societies.

...

Anyone who believes that God is watching us from beyond the stars will feel that punishing peaceful men and women for their private pleasure is perfectly reasonable. We are now in the twenty-first century. Perhaps we should have better reasons for depriving our neighbors of their liberty at gunpoint. Given the magnitude of the real problems that confront us – terrorism, nuclear proliferation, the spread of infectious disease, failing infrastructure, lack of adequate funds for education and health care, etc. – our war on sin is so outrageously unwise as to almost defy rational comment. How have we grown so blind to our deeper interests? And how have we manages to enact such policies with so little substantive debate?

...

The Night Owl
02-15-2010, 12:41 PM
DJones has no opinion of the statistics he asked for?

zBoots
02-15-2010, 03:21 PM
As a ultra conservative -the fact is, the drug war is lost.

It is not only lost.. we could probably live with a loss.. the fact is we may have sold our country down the river in the name of the "Drug War".

Hundreds of billions of dollars. And literally for what gain? .. well unless you are a profiting criminal. NOTHING. If you are a criminal, you have LOVED the drug war.

Full prisons, families separated and the children put on the public dole (at great tax payer expense).

Degraded rights. The rights supposedly protected by the 2nd and 4th amendments are decimated.

The entire western USA is set to LEGALIZE AND TAX marijuana. It WILL happen. Have no doubt. If not this year, 2012. Its going to happen. That is a lot of money we have dumped in toilet right there. And you cant drive where I live without stubling across a MJ grow or smell it. Legal medical MJ is literally everywhere in my area, the primary source of income for many.

People jailed and ruined over BS non harmful crime.

ANd dont say no one is in prison over possession of a joint. I can assure you that is not true, because I see it. A parole gets out and tokes a J and gets busted, they go back to prison. WE pay for that. And it may be a PRIVATE prison. I'm sorry, private prison profiteering turns my stomach. The number we have in prisons is disgraceful.


I fully supported the drug war a long time. Then as I continued working around it and I stumbled into the painful absurd truth. It is a mockery of our countries existence what we have done. And yes I've known the meth heads, including family members of mine. They are wretched. No argument from me.

But what we have lost and given up and paid... mostly to give police a bunch of gadgets and toys they play with like children and powers beyond comprehension of the founding fathers...has been for nothing. No gain at all. We havent done shit.

We have to do it another way. Cuz guess what, prohibition doesnt work. Never did.

That is my 180 on the drug war.