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Rebel Yell
02-25-2010, 09:53 AM
I'm going to conduct a little experiment here. I would like for everyone to tell me what FACTS they use to justify their religious beliefs (or lack there of).

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 10:33 AM
I'm going to conduct a little experiment here. I would like for everyone to tell me what FACTS they use to justify their religious beliefs (or lack there of).

Religious beliefs and the existence of God are too entirely different discussions. Should I make the case for a Creator God or should I make the case of why I believe that the God I worship is the true God? I see this as first God then beliefs thus keeping the cart and the horse in the proper orientation.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
02-25-2010, 12:29 PM
The universe itself is evidence for God. The very fact that you or I exist is evidence of God.
Now whether God is even a sentient being, or simply energy or simply a force, or simply pure will or creative force, or something similar to the concept of Pantheism in that we are all ''God'', I can't tell you. But I do know the Universe had a beginning, you can call that beginning God.

wilbur
02-25-2010, 12:52 PM
I'll try to cite a few facts, off the top of my head:

* Arguments FOR the existence of God are inconclusive - the real forcefol theistic arguments today are supported by little more than unreliable forms of personal experience.
* Any phenomenon that has been conclusively explained, has been explained by way of naturalism - naturalism is the horse that has won a million races - theism is the horse that eventually loses every race.
* The diversity of "spiritual experience" and religious belief counts as good evidence against the idea that any of them are true.
* A conspiratorial cognitive bias - our brains are hardwired towards seeing patterns in random coincidence. In other words, we are naturally inclined to err on the side of 'design', resulting in high rate of false positives (hence, ghosts, gods, government coverups, and aliens). This bias undermines the reliability of our intuition about gods.
* A mindless force is a far simpler and more parsimonious explanation for the universe., than a theistic God.
* The hiddenness of God
* The existence of needless suffering

Rebel Yell
02-25-2010, 01:01 PM
One down. One more to go. The next one will be here as soon as he gets back online.

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:14 PM
I'll try to cite a few facts, off the top of my head:

* Arguments FOR the existence of God are inconclusive - the real forcefol theistic arguments today are supported by little more than unreliable forms of personal experience.

The evidence that God not exists is equally inconclusive.


* Any phenomenon that has been conclusively explained, has been explained by way of naturalism - naturalism is the horse that has won a million races - theism is the horse that eventually loses every race.

What caused the big bang and started expansion? What started the evolutionary process rolling?


* The diversity of "spiritual experience" and religious belief counts as good evidence against the idea that any of them are true.

God operates in many ways and is not held to one way of revealing himself. Do you eat the same meal everyday?


* A conspiratorial cognitive bias - our brains are hardwired towards seeing patterns in random coincidence. In other words, we are naturally inclined to err on the side of 'design', resulting in high rate of false positives (hence, ghosts, gods, government coverups, and aliens)

And this relates to the existence of a creator how?


* A mindless force is a far simpler and more parsimonious explanation for the universe., than a theistic God.

Actually the existence of a creator is much closer to ockham's razor (since that is your appeal here) than an accidental creation because of all the variable that need to be satisfied in order for life to arise.


* The hiddenness of God

He is hidden from you because you do not believe but he is not hidden from me.


* The existence of needless suffering

So if there is no God then suffering is no longer needless and makes sense? How does the presence God (or lack there of) relate to suffering? This argument is weak.


I believe in order to know God, you want to know God in order to believe.

The Night Owl
02-25-2010, 01:16 PM
I'm going to conduct a little experiment here. I would like for everyone to tell me what FACTS they use to justify their religious beliefs (or lack there of).

There is no reason to believe a god exists because there is no evidence a god exists.

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:18 PM
One down. One more to go. The next one will be here as soon as he gets back online.

Like sharks to blood... they just can't help themselves.

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:19 PM
And now there are two :D

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:20 PM
There is no reason to believe a god exists because there is no evidence a god exists.

There are lots of clues however.

The Night Owl
02-25-2010, 01:21 PM
One down. One more to go. The next one will be here as soon as he gets back online.

Fear not: for I am with thee.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
02-25-2010, 01:21 PM
The more important question is Which God?

Rebel Yell
02-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Okay, experiment over.

It took Wilbur, best I can tell, less than 15 minutes after logging in to jump in the religious thread.

TNO, came to it right off the bat.

The Night Owl
02-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Okay, experiment over.

It took Wilbur, best I can tell, less than 15 minutes after logging in to jump in the religious thread.

TNO, came to it right off the bat.

I answered the question before you asked it!

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:26 PM
The more important question is Which God?

wibur and TNO worship AWG at the feet of the High Priest Al Gore.

FlaGator
02-25-2010, 01:26 PM
Okay, experiment over.

It took Wilbur, best I can tell, less than 15 minutes after logging in to jump in the religious thread.

TNO, came to it right off the bat.

Should I lock the thread now?

djones520
02-25-2010, 06:02 PM
I'm going to conduct a little experiment here. I would like for everyone to tell me what FACTS they use to justify their religious beliefs (or lack there of).

Faith shouldn't require facts.