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JBG
03-07-2010, 12:57 AM
A wrote this as a primer on Muslim anger towards the West. It is well known that former President George W. Bush is the cause of most Muslim anger, along with fellow racists such as John Howard, former Prime Miniser of Australia and Stephen Harper, now Prime Minister of Canada. But it does have a longer history.

During the pre-Muslim era, the wanton and vicious habits of the desert people of the area from Egypt through Saudi Arabia is well known, and memorialized in the oral history contained in the Bible. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah, of the binding of Isaac (by negative implication the ritual child sacrifice among neighboring peoples), the purposeless plugging with sand of water wells dug by Abraham and Isaac are but some examples. Not to be forgotten is Amelek, who specialized in "fighting" stragglers who were too tired to fight, or were wounded. The wickedness and idolatry prevalant in these areas, along with sexual perversion and violence, existed well before Islam and the fault for them must be laid at the door, not of Islam, but of local "cultures".

Islam's extremely violent start is also well known. Their virtually unhindered spread from the Mecca area to the Atlantic and to the borders of modern India occurred largely at the point of a sword. There were, during those early years, some constructive developments.

In many areas, intellectually, they were ahead of Europe, then in the "Dark Ages". They were more tolerant of Jews and Christians than Christians were of Jews and Muslims. At least "dhimmitude" allowed survival, under conditions of degradation and financial servitude.

Their predatory habits on the trade of other peoples is also well-known. One of the great impetuses for the development of shipping was the need to avoid travel on the "Silk Road", which went through mortally dangerous Muslim lands en route to the Far East. Later, the Barbary Coast pirates and pirates off modern-day Somalia, all Musims, made theft from Europeans (and eventually Americans) and the "white slave" trade an art form. Then as now, it took the Americans to crack down rather than pay tribute.

Since then, the Barbary Coast Pirates have morphed into OPEC (all of the money benefits the rulers, not the people), the UN, and disaster-milking. Remeber those pitiful faces on ads for charities after the Indonesia tsunami and the Pakistan earthquake? How much rebuilding do you think has really happened? Then as now, there are producers, and there are extorters and takers. After the Holocaust, an undisputed atrocity, its victims picked themselves up, and are now valuable contributors to the world wherever they live.

Did (do) they have cause to be "angry" with the butchers that killed 6,000,000 of them? Where are their suicide bombers? Where are the Americans attacking bazaars in Araby after September 11? Where's the anger of the non-Muslim world against Muslims? And where is the reaction to Iran's Ahmadinejad statement that the Sept. 11 attacks are a 'big lie' (link) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran). Instead of anger, you see Barack Obama going to Cairo to praise the Muslim world, prattling about "negotiations" and undermining his own counry, the one that elected him President.

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 02:01 PM
There's so much going on in terms of ideologies and poltiical complexities and sectarianism that is very tough to get a hold on what is going on and why we are targeted.

This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

Still, the fact that America essentially writes blank checks for Israel to commit what many call crimes against humanity (I believe it is currently still Iraeli Apartheid Awareness Week) can't simply be overlooked, it is a very primary reason that America is hated by middle easterners.

This fairly tale way of looking at the world of "good guys vs bad guys" gets us nowhere and can hardly even be called thought at all.

M21
03-10-2010, 02:16 PM
This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.


Really? How many non-Muslims live in Mecca? How many Christian Churches or Jewish Synagogues are there in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Egypt? Of course, you know there are Mosques and Churches in Israel.

Islam, as it is being promoted openly in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, and numerous North African nations, is a militant religio-political system, with the emphasis upon the political . Where Islam rules freedom outside of Islamic law is nonexistent.

FlaGator
03-10-2010, 02:22 PM
There's so much going on in terms of ideologies and poltiical complexities and sectarianism that is very tough to get a hold on what is going on and why we are targeted.

This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

Still, the fact that America essentially writes blank checks for Israel to commit what many call crimes against humanity (I believe it is currently still Iraeli Apartheid Awareness Week) can't simply be overlooked, it is a very primary reason that America is hated by middle easterners.

This fairly tale way of looking at the world of "good guys vs bad guys" gets us nowhere and can hardly even be called thought at all.

Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?

Islamic Theocracy is a fascist-esque reaction to the void left by the collapse of the soviet union and the systematic dismanteling of middle eastern democracies.

People seem to forget that Afghanistan used to have an impressive record of western liberal social policies (at least when compared to todays), in fact it was a leader in the region in terms of civil rights policies.

However, these were being led by soviets so the United States actively funded and armed resistence groups to fight the soviets. The resulting void left an opportunity to the fascist-esque Radical Islamic Theocracy groups to take over afghanistan and begin to fight US.

This same effect occured after WWI in germany, the void in their broken country was the perfect petri-dish for the Nazi party to rise up.

M21
03-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?


NO

Fixed! :D

FlaGator
03-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Islamic Theocracy is a fascist-esque reaction to the void left by the collapse of the soviet union and the systematic dismanteling of middle eastern democracies.

People seem to forget that Afghanistan used to have an impressive record of western liberal social policies (at least when compared to todays), in fact it was a leader in the region in terms of civil rights policies.

However, these were being led by soviets so the United States actively funded and armed resistence groups to fight the soviets. The resulting void left an opportunity to the fascist-esque Radical Islamic Theocracy groups to take over afghanistan and begin to fight US.

This same effect occured after WWI in germany, the void in their broken country was the perfect petri-dish for the Nazi party to rise up.

You stated

This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

And I asked my question. Their actions demonstrate that allowing freedom within the borders of their countries is not something they wish to make a stab at.

Also, I'll note that you did not answer my question.

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 03:08 PM
There's a HUGE difference between not allowing freedom in a country you control and actively crusading against it as if it were a Real Thing that threatened you.

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 03:13 PM
I admit that they do not agree with "freedom" (if we use this word in terms of civil rights and social justice), but that is not why they are fighting us.

Why would they give 2 shits about what our women dress like?

If they attacked us because they hate our civil liberties or moral looseness (according to their fundamentalist views), shouldn't they be launching a full assault on Denmark and Amsterdam?

FlaGator
03-10-2010, 04:22 PM
I admit that they do not agree with "freedom" (if we use this word in terms of civil rights and social justice), but that is not why they are fighting us.

Why would they give 2 shits about what our women dress like?

If they attacked us because they hate our civil liberties or moral looseness (according to their fundamentalist views), shouldn't they be launching a full assault on Denmark and Amsterdam?

It would seem that they are attempting to do just that by immigrating more and more Muslims in to those countries. When countries like Denmark try to pass laws to make themselves less attractive to Muslims, the shouts religious discrimination fill the air. I think that what Islam couldn't do via war they are attempting to do via assimilation.

JBG
03-10-2010, 07:24 PM
Islamic Theocracy is a fascist-esque reaction to the void left by the collapse of the soviet union and the systematic dismanteling of middle eastern democracies.Israel hasn't been dismantled; yet.


People seem to forget that Afghanistan used to have an impressive record of western liberal social policies (at least when compared to todays), in fact it was a leader in the region in terms of civil rights policies.

However, these were being led by soviets so the United States actively funded and armed resistence groups to fight the soviets. The resulting void left an opportunity to the fascist-esque Radical Islamic Theocracy groups to take over afghanistan and begin to fight US.You have your time sequences bolixed up. Afghanistan had a reasonably progressive constitutional monarchy that was overthrown, I believe, during 1973. My recollection is that the Soviets were behind that coup, as well as a later one in 1978. The U.S. in fact funded anti-Soviet forces, some of whomo later became jihadis.


This same effect occured after WWI in germany, the void in their broken country was the perfect petri-dish for the Nazi party to rise up.The U.S. was not the cause of WW I. We went in when Britain was in mortal danger and neutral shipping rights were under attack.

The Nazis did not come from out of nowhere. Their society was already primed for this.

JBG
03-10-2010, 07:25 PM
This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

Still, the fact that America essentially writes blank checks for Israel to commit what many call crimes against humanity (I believe it is currently still Iraeli Apartheid Awareness Week) can't simply be overlooked, it is a very primary reason that America is hated by middle easterners.

This fairly tale way of looking at the world of "good guys vs bad guys" gets us nowhere and can hardly even be called thought at all.Really now?

What Israel does is childs' play compared to the atrocities in the Arab world that are barely news.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 02:54 AM
Really now?

What Israel does is childs' play compared to the atrocities in the Arab world that are barely news.

What are some of the things that Israel does which you are referring to as "childs' play"?

Sonnabend
03-11-2010, 06:06 AM
If they attacked us because they hate our civil liberties or moral looseness (according to their fundamentalist views), shouldn't they be launching a full assault on Denmark and Amsterdam?

They did. Massive riots and deaths over some cartoons. The Danes have had a gutful..so has France and other nations that are pissed off over Muslim aggression and wanton murder.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_j699wNk0TOg/R7Rm6c0X9qI/AAAAAAAAAXU/9l7BWkRcKOo/s400/carbacue.jpeg

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2008/02/15/denmark-topper.jpg

and this

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/salman_rushdie.jpg

Recognise him?

He wrote a book., more people died, and there is still a death sentence on him, the fatwa calling for any Muslim worldwide to murder him. Several assassination attempts have been made.

Sonnabend
03-11-2010, 06:08 AM
What are some of the things that Israel does which you are referring to as "childs' play"?

Defending themselves against splodeydopes. These renegade Arabs that no one wants are the main problem....quite frankly, Israel would be best served by doing a Rachel Corrie on Gaza.

Turn the place into a parking lot or housing for settlers...either works for me.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 07:59 AM
There's a HUGE difference between not allowing freedom in a country you control and actively crusading against it as if it were a Real Thing that threatened you.

Since the Islamic faith denies individual freedom to specific persons and when they attempt to spread their faith by all means necessary they are by default crusading against it freedom.

JBG
03-11-2010, 08:26 AM
What are some of the things that Israel does which you are referring to as "childs' play"?I would cal lthe rather limited and surgical miitary operations, which at least try to keep to military targets, a lot gentler than the indiscriminate slaughter wreaked by Arab forces.

I am not that religious but a quick read of the Bible or Koran would show that the Arab's current style of warfare has been endemic to the region since Biblical times. Sometimes I wonder if we should treat the Gazans the way we were instructed to treat the Amelkites and Jebusites before.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Apartheid is an international crime.

Israel, like all natons has a right to defend itself, and yes Palistinians are suicide bombing and attacking them regularly. However, it doesn't give Israel the right to place prohibition of Arabs (even Israeli citizens) to prvent them from marriage, from land ownership, from attaining water, vote, and so on. They systematically abuse the Arab people in the area even more than South Africa did to blacks not too long ago.

It is absolutely dehumanizing. An 11 year old child from Gaza throws a rock at an Israeli tank that rolls up and down his broken street, and the tank opens fire at him and kills him. This is not an unusual occurance.

Ther'es restrictions on travel education, really it's a full top to bottom very explicit apartheid. It's sad because Western media (even the EVVILLL LIBERALLLL CHANNELS) don't report on this.

My god they simple build roads and walls right over Palistinian land and prohibit them from crossing it, effectively annexing their land more and more each year.

It's an absolute atrocity and while they do have a legitimate justification for self-defense, they do not have a free card to commit crimes against humanity.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Apartheid is an international crime.

Israel, like all natons has a right to defend itself, and yes Palistinians are suicide bombing and attacking them regularly. However, it doesn't give Israel the right to place prohibition of Arabs (even Israeli citizens) to prvent them from marriage, from land ownership, from attaining water, vote, and so on. They systematically abuse the Arab people in the area even more than South Africa did to blacks not too long ago.

It is absolutely dehumanizing. An 11 year old child from Gaza throws a rock at an Israeli tank that rolls up and down his broken street, and the tank opens fire at him and kills him. This is not an unusual occurance.

Ther'es restrictions on travel education, really it's a full top to bottom very explicit apartheid. It's sad because Western media (even the EVVILLL LIBERALLLL CHANNELS) don't report on this.

My god they simple build roads and walls right over Palistinian land and prohibit them from crossing it, effectively annexing their land more and more each year.

It's an absolute atrocity and while they do have a legitimate justification for self-defense, they do not have a free card to commit crimes against humanity.

One man's crime against humanity is another man's view of self-defense. All sides behave equally poorly and unjustly but to say that one side is behaving worse than the other shows a complete lack of understandings.

Which is the bigger crime, for and Israeli tank to roll over a teen who threw a rock at it, or for and Palestinian teen to walk in to a crowded cafe and detonate a suicide vest?

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 02:26 PM
One man's crime against humanity is another man's view of self-defense. All sides behave equally poorly and unjustly but to say that one side is behaving worse than the other shows a complete lack of understandings.

Which is the bigger crime, for and Israeli tank to roll over a teen who threw a rock at it, or for and Palestinian teen to walk in to a crowded cafe and detonate a suicide vest?

One is an oppressed individual committing a violent offense against civilians. Undeniably bad and totally unjustifiable. Its like a dog backed against a corner, it bites. The dog still gets put down, but it's behavior is not unexpected.

The other is a(n extremely powerful, nuclear armed) nation systematically oppressing an ethnic group (both non-citizens and citizens) and violating international law with total impunity.

While both are undoubtably bad, I'd say that institutionalized apartheid is worse than violent acts of "going postal" so to speak.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Even if we are still at a place where we cannot say one is worse than the other, the simple fact is still that the United States government sends BILLIONS of dollars in tax-payer money to fund Israeli actions without putting any restrictions based on their actions.

Sonnabend
03-11-2010, 02:42 PM
Apartheid is an international crime.


Israel, like all natons has a right to defend itself, and yes Arabs are suicide bombing and attacking them regularly

There is no such place as Palestine. It does not exist, is not on any map, and has no basis in reality.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 02:51 PM
There is no such place as Palestine. It does not exist, is not on any map, and has no basis in reality.

There are people who exist though, something the Israeli government seems all too eager to forget.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 02:59 PM
One is an oppressed individual committing a violent offense against civilians. Undeniably bad and totally unjustifiable. Its like a dog backed against a corner, it bites. The dog still gets put down, but it's behavior is not unexpected.

The other is a(n extremely powerful, nuclear armed) nation systematically oppressing an ethnic group (both non-citizens and citizens) and violating international law with total impunity.

While both are undoubtably bad, I'd say that institutionalized apartheid is worse than violent acts of "going postal" so to speak.

So to be back in to a corner is an excuse to behave like an animal instead of rising above that time up behavior.

There would be no "institutionalized apartheid" as you call it if there were no homicide bombers. There would be no reason to build fences and segregate one population from the other if people intent on murdering civilians didn't walk in to cafes or sit down on buses or walk in to cowarded markets and blow themselves up. If you look at the history of things this "institutionalized apartheid" didn't start until the homicide bombers started killing unsuspecting people. I would much rather see a fence built to keep killers out than to send in a battalion of men and equipment in to the areas that harbor them and take more undeserving blood.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 03:01 PM
There is no such place as Palestine. It does not exist, is not on any map, and has no basis in reality.

There is such a place as Palestine and it has been on maps since around 150 to 200 A.D. Would you like for me to prove this to you once and for all or do you want to continue to propagate this fiction?

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 03:06 PM
So to be back in to a corner is an excuse to behave like an animal instead of rising above that time up behavior.

There would be no "institutionalized apartheid" as you call it if there were no homicide bombers. There would be no reason to build fences and segregate one population from the other if people intent on murdering civilians didn't walk in to cafes or sit down on buses or walk in to cowarded markets and blow themselves up. If you look at the history of things this "institutionalized apartheid" didn't start until the homicide bombers started killing unsuspecting people. I would much rather see a fence built to keep killers out than to send in a battalion of men and equipment in to the areas that harbor them and take more undeserving blood.

And here is where we get to the chicken and the egg problem. One side says the apartheid policies are a necessary result of suicide bombings and radical attacks as a means of self-defense. The other side says the bombings and attacks are a result of the dehumanizing apartheid that makes them believe they have no choice.

Here the issue isn't so clear cut because neither side is without fault.

I'd like to recommend a documentary about this issue called Death in Gaza

It focuses on the children growing up in gaza, hoping to see (without justifying it mind you) what it is like growing up in that environment and what exactly pushes these people to hate so deeply they are willing to kill themselves just to hurt the "enemy". It shows how propaganda and martyr worship is used to convince youngsters to give their lives for the cause, and it shows the constant fear and terror they live in.

The director of this film intended to have half of the film focusing on children in Gaza, and the other half focusing on children in Israel. Unfortunately, during the filming of this movie, the director was shot and killed by Israeli defense forces. The altercation that included the killing of the director was actually caught on film and is shown in it (a bit ironic don't you think?)

The film is very powerful and doesn't offer any clear answers, in fact if anything it only opens up more questions. I highly recommend it.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 03:08 PM
It's available to watch free here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6285051748819867080&ei=n02ZS67THYWUqwL0qOnaAw&q=death+in+gaza#

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 03:11 PM
It's really sad because some of the children they focus on are adorable. Very sweet and kindhearted, cute and much like American kids. However, you can see very clearly easy it is for something so divine as childhood can be turned into radical violent martyrdom.

M21
03-11-2010, 03:15 PM
And here is where we get to the chicken and the egg problem. One side says the apartheid policies are a necessary result of suicide bombings and radical attacks as a means of self-defense. The other side says the bombings and attacks are a result of the dehumanizing apartheid that makes them believe they have no choice.


Read this and get back to us. Black September in Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan)with all this chicken and egg thory.

JBG
03-11-2010, 05:25 PM
Apartheid is an international crime. I tend to agree. But I have a question. Why does integration run only one way? Why do whites have to give up apartheid, but their physical safety and/or property rights aren't necessarily respected in a "majority" regime. ALl that one has to do is look what's happened in Zimbabwe, and what's in progress in South Africa, as well as most other African countries which attained independence since WW II. Integration should mean respect for all property and personal rights.



Israel, like all natons has a right to defend itself, and yes Palistinians are suicide bombing and are (fixed error)attacking them regularly. However, it doesn't give Israel the right to place prohibition of Arabs (even Israeli citizens) to prvent] prevent (fixed error) them from marriage, from land ownership, from attaining water, vote, and so on. They systematically abuse the Arab people in the area even more than South Africa did to blacks not too long ag (should be "ago") (fixed error).

It is absolutely dehumanizing. An 11 year old child from Gaza throws a rock at an Israeli tank that rolls up and down his ( as a leftist you should use gender-neutral terms broken street, and the tank opens fire at him and kills him. This is not an unusual occurance.

Ther'es There are (fixed error) restrictions on travel education, really it's a full top to bottom very explicit apartheid. It's sad because Western media (even the EVVILLL LIBERALLLL CHANNELS) don't report on this.

My god they simple build roads and walls right over Palistinian Palestinian (fixed error) (or simply say "the zoo") land and prohibit them from crossing it, effectively annexing their land more and more each year.

It's an absolute atrocity and while they do have a legitimate justification for self-defense, they do not have a free card to commit crimes against humanity.It would seem that if the Arabs want these kind of events to stop, good faith bargaining by them would be in order. This means bargaining wtihout preconditions. The problem of course is that as always when bargaining with Arabs, the "give" is always one way and the "take" is always the other way.

Sonnabend
03-13-2010, 08:12 AM
There is such a place as Palestine and it has been on maps since around 150 to 200 A.D. Would you like for me to prove this to you once and for all or do you want to continue to propagate this fiction?

Go right ahead.

Show me on a modern map (not less than 12 months old) and show me the exact place that says "Palestine".

ON A MAP.

I dont give a shit what a map said in 200AD...in 200 AD the map didn't have more than 3/4 of the world on it.

On a MODERN DAY MAP.

JBG
03-13-2010, 11:38 AM
Go right ahead.

Show me on a modern map (not less than 12 months old) and show me the exact place that says "Palestine".

ON A MAP.

I dont give a shit what a map said in 200AD...in 200 AD the map didn't have more than 3/4 of the world on it.

On a MODERN DAY MAP.

I had an instant messenger conversation with a Kuwaiti of student age. While there was no venom in the conversation it is clear from it that the cause of the "Palestinians" is a chimera, a fake cause.


K+Converstion with Kuwaiti
Kuwaiti(07:53:52 PM): Lol, theyre like the radical jews, the ottoman empire occupied the place when jews arent there, so literally they left the place, after the fall of the ottoman empire there was the mufti of jerusalem (muslim) who had british mandate, when ww2 ended, and jews came along and settled the place, british mandate backed off and jews attacked palestinian people and took the land
Kuwaiti(07:54:27 PM): long story short, they invaded palestine
JBG (07:56:03 PM): I see it differently. The Ottomans physically ruled but, not having the resources to develop sold teh land to the Jews
JBG (07:56:27 PM): The Jews made it a garden spot but the Arabs don't want any non-arabs there
Kuwaiti(07:56:53 PM): the ottomans were muslim
JBG (07:57:16 PM): I know. they had the rule ove the land but no people for it
Kuwaiti(07:57:37 PM): palestinians
Kuwaiti(07:58:02 PM): it was a city
JBG (07:58:03 PM): there actually weren't very many there
Kuwaiti(07:58:45 PM): its the most precious land in the world religion wise
JBG (08:04:57 PM): I just wonder given how little land Israel has why they can't be left alone
Kuwaiti(08:06:00 PM): one of the three holy sites in islam is in jerusalem
Kuwaiti(08:06:44 PM): the two state solution is fine for me
JBG (08:09:03 PM): but Israel lets the Muslims use it freely. not so the other way around
Kuwaiti(08:09:26 PM): nope they dont let them use it freely
Kuwaiti(08:09:36 PM): its burned since when?
Kuwaiti(08:10:04 PM): the jews burned the mosque inside out
JBG (08:10:13 PM): if you wanted to go there yocertainly could
Kuwaiti(08:10:30 PM): Lol proof?
Kuwaiti(08:10:42 PM): wait
Kuwaiti(08:10:43 PM): no
Kuwaiti(08:11:38 PM): they cud use it freely but NOT for palestine
Kuwaiti(08:11:51 PM): and im not sure if thats true^
JBG (08:12:14 PM): When Jordan and Egypt had certain lands they certainly didn't turn it over to the palestinians
Kuwaiti(08:13:15 PM): jordan trys to control the west bank but egypt? wth?
Kuwaiti(08:13:51 PM): what did egypt do?
JBG (08:13:53 PM): gaza
Kuwaiti(08:13:58 PM): no
Kuwaiti(08:14:02 PM): they AID gaza
JBG (08:14:12 PM): they had gaza 1948-67
Kuwaiti(08:16:12 PM): arabs are against israel not thereselves
JBG (08:17:14 PM): so what you're sayingis Arab rule for Palestinians is OK but notJewish rule?
Kuwaiti(08:17:54 PM): muslim arab rule yes.
Kuwaiti(08:19:30 PM): if theyre the same why the arabs couldnt rule
Kuwaiti(08:19:33 PM): ?
JBG (08:19:57 PM): if they're the same why can't Palestinians be absorbed into other Arab countryies?
Kuwaiti(08:20:36 PM): its an islamic holy site we wouldnt let it go without a fight to our death
JBG (08:21:39 PM): but when the Arabs held the holy sites before June 1967 they still felt it necessary to right Israel to the death for some reason
Kuwaiti(08:22:18 PM): right israel to the death? what do u mean
JBG (08:22:28 PM): Fight I mean
JBG (08:22:32 PM): compt is freezing
Kuwaiti(08:22:59 PM): Lol
Kuwaiti(08:23:13 PM): theres masjid al aqsa and the dome of the rock
Kuwaiti(08:23:20 PM): theyre both different
Kuwaiti(08:23:33 PM): masjid il aqsa is forbidden to use
JBG (08:23:43 PM): those were both under Muslim control pre-1967
Kuwaiti(08:23:44 PM): its what we want
Kuwaiti(08:23:55 PM): u mean 1948
JBG (08:24:31 PM): no between 1948 and 1967
Kuwaiti(08:25:05 PM): No between those dates, israel declared itself a state
Kuwaiti(08:25:32 PM): and palestines city was quickly set up to be gaza
JBG (08:26:08 PM): but the State of Israel didn't inclue Al Aksa or the Dome of the Rock
Kuwaiti(08:26:17 PM): ooooh u mean the west bank
Kuwaiti(08:26:23 PM): i thought u said palestine
Kuwaiti(08:26:55 PM): 1948-1967 it was controlled by jordan
JBG (08:28:16 PM): right and jordan still felt the need to attack Israel in 1967
JBG (08:28:28 PM): thus costing those areas Muslim control
Kuwaiti(08:29:38 PM): it was in muslim control king hussein wanted to reapproch with peace for israel to develop
JBG (08:30:34 PM): How hard is it for Muslim worshipers now to go to the Dome of the Rock or Al Aksa mosque?
Kuwaiti(08:31:57 PM): well now its in jewish control and muslims do not want to go to israel and the al aqsa mosque is burned down nobody can pray there
JBG (08:32:41 PM): when did it burn down?
JBG (08:33:19 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque
JBG (08:35:56 PM): when did it burn?
Kuwaiti(08:36:05 PM): hold on
Kuwaiti(08:37:05 PM): nope it was a threat sorry http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=56670
JBG (08:38:04 PM): anyone who threatens a place of worship deserves their own place in hell
Kuwaiti(08:38:26 PM): well its still under threat
Kuwaiti(08:39:06 PM): "Yet, Israel ignored the resolution as it did with every single resolution regarding the Palestinian-Israeli and Arab-Israeli conflict."
JBG (08:39:12 PM): I guess areas like Sdirot are not under threat of missle attacks
Kuwaiti(08:39:48 PM): iran knows the weakpoints of israel
Kuwaiti(08:40:52 PM): In 1979, a group of 40 extremist Jews attempted to break into the mosque and yet they were all acquitted by an Israeli court.
Kuwaiti(08:41:39 PM): you can see why arabs wouldnt desire a jewish rule
JBG (08:44:53 PM): but how many jews are allowed to live in kuwait?
Kuwaiti(08:45:09 PM): a trillion
Kuwaiti(08:45:23 PM): but there is as little as 30 jews
Kuwaiti(08:45:29 PM): i guess
Kuwaiti(08:45:53 PM): but the record i know of is 300 jews in 1920
Kuwaiti(08:51:05 PM): r u a jew?
JBG (08:51:42 PM): yes
Kuwaiti(08:51:55 PM): hah i knew it
JBG (08:52:17 PM): I respect Islam and I hope you respect Judaism
Kuwaiti(08:52:28 PM): I do
JBG (08:53:06 PM): And I wish more Muslims ad an open mind abotu Israel. As allies we cold be powerful
Kuwaiti(08:53:54 PM): both are showing bad examples, i hope that happens
JBG (08:54:17 PM): But I want peace, not a houdna
Kuwaiti(08:54:32 PM): houdna?
JBG (08:55:06 PM): look it up. it's the temporary peace Mohamed gave to reload and re-arm
Kuwaiti(08:57:18 PM): situation is, currently palestine is heading for one state solution, but considering 2 state solution , iran can back both solutions for the palestinians
JBG (08:58:20 PM): you mean getting rid of Israel for one state?
Kuwaiti(08:58:29 PM): yep
JBG (08:59:04 PM): why would you or any people of good will want that?
Kuwaiti(08:59:11 PM): palestine is the brain and iran is the muscles
Kuwaiti(08:59:23 PM): i ddnt say i wanted that
Kuwaiti(09:00:06 PM): Kuwaiti(04:06:44 AM): the two state solution is fine for me
Kuwaiti(09:00:16 PM): i posted that earlier
JBG (09:01:40 PM): oh ok