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Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Honestly I think someone who is (what I'd consider) a Christian (which doesn't just mean going to church or having a framed picture of white Jesus or sending money to organizations, but rather studying the Bible and following the teachings of Christ) would be far more likely to be on the Socialist end of the political spectrum.

Christianity and socialism seem to go pretty well together.

Gingersnap
03-10-2010, 02:39 PM
The other thread had been hijacked enough. ;)

stsinner
03-10-2010, 02:41 PM
"White Jesus?" You are one antagonistic little fuck, aren't you?

Milly
03-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Honestly I think someone who is (what I'd consider) a Christian (which doesn't just mean going to church or having a framed picture of white Jesus or sending money to organizations, but rather studying the Bible and following the teachings of Christ) would be far more likely to be on the Socialist end of the political spectrum.

Christianity and socialism seem to go pretty well together.

OK, let me try to explain this in simple terms. Christianity believes in personal charity - I give my shirt to one who needs it out of Christian love for the other person.

Socialism believes I should take my neighbor's shirt instead of my own to give to the needy one - whether my neighbor wants to give it up or not.

Clear now?

FlaGator
03-10-2010, 02:50 PM
Honestly I think someone who is (what I'd consider) a Christian (which doesn't just mean going to church or having a framed picture of white Jesus or sending money to organizations, but rather studying the Bible and following the teachings of Christ) would be far more likely to be on the Socialist end of the political spectrum.

Christianity and socialism seem to go pretty well together.

Christianity is not an economic or governmental system and historically whenever attempts to make it one or the other or both the experiments have failed miserably.

Gingersnap
03-10-2010, 03:08 PM
"White Jesus?" You are one antagonistic little fuck, aren't you?

LOL! Every culture imagines Christ in terms of ethnicity. Of course, the very same is true of Hindus, Buddhists, and all other religions that have managed to gain a foothold outside of their population of origin.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mhc369.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/t97ioh.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/xf15cg.jpg

And that remark was antagonistic and juvenile.

noonwitch
03-10-2010, 03:18 PM
LOL! Every culture imagines Christ in terms of ethnicity. Of course, the very same is true of Hindus, Buddhists, and all other religions that have managed to gain a foothold outside of their population of origin.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mhc369.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/t97ioh.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/xf15cg.jpg

And that remark was antagonistic and juvenile.


I know where you can get some Black Jesus Christmas Cards, if you are interested.

My guess is that the fleshly Jesus who walked the earth 2000 years ago had dark hair and skin that was the tone of most of the people of the middle east-like a tanned caucasian. If he had blonde hair and blue eyes, though, he would have stood out in a crowded street.

M21
03-10-2010, 03:28 PM
Christianity is not an economic or governmental system and historically whenever attempts to make it one or the other or both the experiments have failed miserably.

Well said. Our treasury can't be looted by the state.

FlaGator
03-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Well said. Our treasury can't be looted by the state.

:D

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 03:40 PM
OK, let me try to explain this in simple terms. Christianity believes in personal charity - I give my shirt to one who needs it out of Christian love for the other person.

Socialism believes I should take my neighbor's shirt instead of my own to give to the needy one - whether my neighbor wants to give it up or not.

Clear now?

That's not what socialism means. That is what the ruling capitalist class says socialism means because they own such a ridiculously disproportionate amount of wealth that equality means "taking from me!"

Socialism means no person should be able to exploit another person by claiming ownership over the means of production of goods that are needed to survive.

Socialist small society: We all own the farm, we all own the food, and we must all work to produce it.

Capitalist small society: I own the farm, I own the food. If you want to eat I'll pay you to operate the farm and grow the food, then you can give that money back to me in exchange for the food you grew.

Wei Wu Wei
03-10-2010, 03:42 PM
Christianity is not an economic or governmental system and historically whenever attempts to make it one or the other or both the experiments have failed miserably.

You're right it's not.

I just mean that the principles and morals in the New Testament are extremely compatible with those of socialism.

BadCat
03-10-2010, 03:43 PM
That's not what socialism means. That is what the ruling capitalist class says socialism means because they own such a ridiculously disproportionate amount of wealth that equality means "taking from me!"

Socialism means no person should be able to exploit another person by claiming ownership over the means of production of goods that are needed to survive.

Socialist small society: We all own the farm, we all own the food, and we must all work to produce it.

Capitalist small society: I own the farm, I own the food. If you want to eat I'll pay you to operate the farm and grow the food, then you can give that money back to me in exchange for the food you grew.

Let's insert YOU into this scenario.

I don't like you. I don't think you work hard enough. I don't think you deserve any food from the farm. I don't care if you and your family starve to death. Go grow your own food, if you're able.

That is one of the reasons socialism will never work.

Gingersnap
03-10-2010, 04:01 PM
You're right it's not.

I just mean that the principles and morals in the New Testament are extremely compatible with those of socialism.

They aren't, really. Socialism depends on the people holding up the State as the only real source of justice, truth, education, and so on. Christianity rejects that view. Christianity isn't a lifestyle; it's a God-centered way of life. Salvation is the purpose of Christianity. Whatever you may enjoy about it on moral terms is the fruit of faith, not a collection of behaviors which get magically exchanged for Heaven.

Christ taught mercy but also justice, charity but also personal responsibility, forgiveness but also the renunciation of sin.

Milly
03-10-2010, 04:08 PM
Socialism means no person should be able to exploit another person by claiming ownership over the means of production of goods that are needed to survive.

Socialist small society: We all own the farm, we all own the food, and we must all work to produce it.


They tried that at Jamestown (Circa 1620) and it was a miserable failure. One fifth of the colony did all the work while the rest were drones. When each member was given three acres of his own to cultivate, industry and thrift replaced inefficiency and there were no more famines.

http://reformedmusings.wordpress.com/2009/03/21/human-nature-and-socialism-lessons-for-obama

wilbur
03-10-2010, 09:54 PM
Christianity has a history of cozying up to and supporting whoever has the power - as long as they are willing to share. Extreme national socialism and fascism have been among the churches favorites in the not too distant past.

Rockntractor
03-10-2010, 10:03 PM
Christianity has a history of cozying up to and supporting whoever has the power - as long as they are willing to share. Extreme national socialism and fascism have been among the churches favorites in the not too distant past.
Ahh yes and atheism has had no part with communism.

Gingersnap
03-10-2010, 10:11 PM
Christianity has a history of cozying up to and supporting whoever has the power - as long as they are willing to share. Extreme national socialism and fascism have been among the churches favorites in the not too distant past.

People have a history of cozying up (to) and supporting power structures. I haven't seen atheists or non-Christians being notably in the minority as far that goes.

In this era, government-endorsed fascism, socialism, and communism have all killed more than any Christian groups have. Islam hasn't been far behind over the past 100 years.

PoliCon
03-10-2010, 10:28 PM
fascism, socialism, and communism Why are you repeating yourself? ;) You should just say "the various Marxist philosophies. . ."

papabull
03-10-2010, 10:45 PM
Christianity and socialism seem to go pretty well together.

Really, huh? Seems to me that socialists are virtually all God hating atheist heathens, so if socialism and Christianity go pretty well together, someone should tell the socialists. A little salvation would be a good thing for them.

noonwitch
03-11-2010, 04:53 PM
You're right it's not.

I just mean that the principles and morals in the New Testament are extremely compatible with those of socialism.


On the surface, it appears that way. But the thing is that whether it is capitalism or socialism, those are all man-made economic theories and practices. They are all faulty for that reason alone.

Whereas I agree with Ginger that the purpose of the gospel is the spiritual salvation of mankind, and I don't think that works are required to achieve salvation, I believe the natural response of a believer is to love and care for his fellow man-to feed the poor, heal the sick, clothe the naked and visit the imprisoned without the expectation of some kind of gratitude from the person being helped. But that is a matter of personal morality.

Megaguns91
03-11-2010, 04:59 PM
Dear WAH WAH WAH,

Please be my guest and walk into a christian church and announce your philosophy about socialism and christianity.



Please, do.

Then I won't have to read anymore of your stupid posts.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 05:01 PM
Dear WAH WAH WAH,

Please be my guest and walk into a christian church and announce your philosophy about socialism and christianity.



Please, do.

Then I won't have to read anymore of your stupid posts.

Just so you knew I grew up in a strong Christian family. Evangelical style too. My uncle is a pastor and my family is quite involved in the church. I've spoken to them about socialism and christianity and some of them agree.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Just so you knew I grew up in a strong Christian family. Evangelical style too. My uncle is a pastor and my family is quite involved in the church. I've spoken to them about socialism and christianity and some of them agree.

Once again, Christianity is neither a form of government nor an economic system for the managing of a society's finances. Christianity is about a relationship with God that offers an alternate life style to the one experienced by those living the secular world. Theocracies become contaminated by power, control and money and soon end up being a corrupt as a secular government.

fettpett
03-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Just answer this question. Why do Capitalist Christians give more and do more for the poor and underprivilaged than Soicalist Christians?

wilbur
03-11-2010, 06:22 PM
Just answer this question. Why do Capitalist Christians give more and do more for the poor and underprivilaged than Soicalist Christians?

I'm pretty skeptical there is a huge significant difference - all such studies I've seen include tithes in their figures, wich really should not be counted, for obvious reasons.

fettpett
03-11-2010, 06:36 PM
I'm pretty skeptical there is a huge significant difference - all such studies I've seen include tithes in their figures, which really should not be counted, for obvious reasons.

well I can see why, while a lot of the tithe goes to help the local church (utility expenses, paying the pastor, etc) but the majority of it goes into the local community in the form of food pantries, evangelism, Dorcas' (clothing distribution) helping with utilities for members of the community, and other outreach. At lest it does in my church and a lot of others as well.

Now that doesn't mean that other churches operate the same or have the money go in the same amounts to the similar places. a LOT of the mega churches the Pastor pockets big portion of the tithe as their salaries (multiple multimillion dollar homes is way excessive)

Zeus
03-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable. One is based on the atheistic philosophy found in the Communist Manifesto; theother is based on the deity of Jesus Christ.

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Just answer this question. Why do Capitalist Christians give more and do more for the poor and underprivilaged than Soicalist Christians?

because they have more to give

fettpett
03-11-2010, 06:58 PM
because they have more to give

exactly, because they worked their butts off to earn that money, and Believe God has blessed their work.

Zeus
03-11-2010, 07:00 PM
Socialism means economic control of the people by government. In a socialist country, the state is all-powerful. Such an all-powerful state views itself and not God as the ultimate authority. It is not surprising, therefore, that the Communist Manifesto calls for abolishing family, marriage, countries, and religion as well as private property. Under the socialist system the state determines what is right and wrong without any competing loyalties to God, family, or country.

PoliCon
03-11-2010, 07:21 PM
I'm pretty skeptical there is a huge significant difference - all such studies I've seen include tithes in their figures, wich really should not be counted, for obvious reasons.

Ok - you wanna disqualify Tithes - then we should also disqualify contributions to "art" and "animal" charities that the left are so very fond of. :rolleyes: Tithes do more to impact individual people and their lives than do highbrow art 'charities' and groups such as PETA, ALF, ELF, and the charities favored by the left.

PoliCon
03-11-2010, 07:22 PM
because they have more to give

And why is that?

Wei Wu Wei
03-11-2010, 07:47 PM
And why is that?

Capitalism. Of course the capitalists have more.

Rockntractor
03-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Capitalism. Of course the capitalists have more.

Um yeah and capitalists do really capitalistic stuff!

PoliCon
03-11-2010, 08:09 PM
http://www.fallenchaos.com/images/rp/DeliverenceFucktard.jpg
Capitalism. Of course the capitalists have more.



WHY??

Rockntractor
03-11-2010, 08:26 PM
http://www.fallenchaos.com/images/rp/DeliverenceFucktard.jpg



WHY??

You are arguing with someone who is likely sitting in his own pee right now.

FlaGator
03-11-2010, 09:31 PM
Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable. One is based on the atheistic philosophy found in the Communist Manifesto; theother is based on the deity of Jesus Christ.

Glad to see you Zeus. It's been a while.