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Rebel Yell
03-12-2010, 12:34 PM
A national ID card in 2010?

National identification cards, long feared by privacy advocates, may soon become mandatory for American workers. In a bipartisan effort to curb the hiring of illegal immigrants, Sens. Charles Schumer (D-NY) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) have proposed legislation that, if passed, will require all working Americans to carry biometric ID cards containing fingerprint records and other personal information. Sen. Schumer calls the measure "the nub of solving the immigration dilemma." But Chris Calabrese, an American Civil Liberties Union lawyer, warns the cards would be a "massive invasion" of privacy. Are national ID cards the solution to our immigration woes — or an unacceptable intrusion into our lives? (Watch Ron Paul chime in on the national ID card debate)

This is an affront to our freedom as Americans: Not only would this "ghastly" plan be a frightening invasion of privacy, says Alex Nowarsteh in Fox News, it "would treat every American like a criminal by requiring them to enter their most intimate and personal data into a government database." This is a "naked government power grab," and it must be stopped.
"5 reasons why America should steer clear of a national ID card"

The privacy concerns make no sense: If we're ever going to improve our national security, the "infuriatingly nonsensical" hand-wringing over privacy needs to end, says Donn Tennant in IT Business Edge. Many non-criminals, including members of the armed forces and "most public servants," are already fingerprinted, and their liberty remains intact. And having to show "a national ID with your biometric information" at the airport is no more "loathsome" than showing a driver's license.
"National ID cards: Pointless privacy argument is getting old"
http://www.theweek.com/article/index/200644/A_national_ID_card_in_2010

The ACLU is fighting this tooth and nail, too. It must be a horrible idead if I agree with the ACLU's stand against something. That, or I'm in a Bizarrro World. Of course, their reasoning, I'm sure, is that it's unfair to illegals.:rolleyes:

If you want to "fix" the immigration problem, make companies that are caught hiring illegals pay ALL the back income and payroll taxes with interest.
jediab
03-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Yes, it is a freakish situation when I too agree with the ACLU.
sgrooms
03-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Oh my God.

When did we become the criminals?
Zeus
03-12-2010, 01:12 PM
The ACLU is fighting this tooth and nail, too. It must be a horrible idead if I agree with the ACLU's stand against something. That, or I'm in a Bizarrro World. Of course, their reasoning, I'm sure, is that it's unfair to illegals.:rolleyes:

If you want to "fix" the immigration problem, make companies that are caught hiring illegals pay ALL the back income and payroll taxes with interest.

I think the Idea of the national ID card is so companies know when someone is illegal and therefore non hireable. It's rather difficult to "prove" a company knowingly hired illegals unless the majority of their workers are illegals.
lacarnut
03-12-2010, 01:41 PM
I am sitting on the fence with this idea until I know more about the details. I am sure that Libertarians hate this idea. However, you have to have a driver's license to drive a car and when I vote the license or some other form of id. must be shown. If the card could stem the flood of illegals and hamper the ones here from gaining employment, that might be a way to go. However, what would stop them from counterfeiting these cards. I don't especially like the idea of the government gaining more info about me either.
Megaguns91
03-12-2010, 03:08 PM
1984
Rebel Yell
03-12-2010, 03:18 PM
I am sitting on the fence with this idea until I know more about the details. I am sure that Libertarians hate this idea. However, you have to have a driver's license to drive a car and when I vote the license or some other form of id. must be shown. If the card could stem the flood of illegals and hamper the ones here from gaining employment, that might be a way to go. However, what would stop them from counterfeiting these cards. I don't especially like the idea of the government gaining more info about me either.

My problem is the biometric chip embedded in it.

This card will start out as just a way of having a job, but it will end up MUCH more than that. Your Social Security number began as just a way to keep up with your social security benefits. Look what it has become.
hampshirebrit
03-12-2010, 06:09 PM
Fight it with every fiber. We've been doing so in the UK for years.

There is nothing in favour of ID cards that stands up to real scrutiny. The whole concept is wrong, un-British, un-American, just wrong.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h281/hampshirebrit/NO2ID_logo-20082408.png
Jfor
03-12-2010, 06:20 PM
I will become an underground worker if this passes. I refuse to have any form of a national ID card. With the shape that our government is in, I have no doubt in my mind that there are more nefarious and underhanded things in mind with this. I do not trust them. What next? A national registration of firearms?
jediab
03-12-2010, 07:34 PM
My problem is the biometric chip embedded in it.

This card will start out as just a way of having a job, but it will end up MUCH more than that. Your Social Security number began as just a way to keep up with your social security benefits. Look what it has become.

This is exactly the reason I don't want it. The whole thing may start out innocent enough, but how long until it is abused by someone else? Like Rebel said, just look at SSN.
stsinner
03-12-2010, 07:40 PM
I think the Idea of the national ID card is so companies know when someone is illegal and therefore non hireable. It's rather difficult to "prove" a company knowingly hired illegals unless the majority of their workers are illegals.

I like the idea, too.. As long as they put some biological something or other on it like a digital fingerprint that can't be faked.. This would make it impossible for crimigrants to last a week in America... And after that they need to require it for voting.

I'm a Libertarian, and I understand those concerns that some of you have expressed that relate to the gubment tracking you, etc., but they've done challenges with huge cash prizes to get people to try to "drop off the grid," and you simply cannot do it for long.. Anyone that buys a new GM car can be tracked by their ONSTAR (one reason I'll never own a GM car), and if you have a cell phone you can be tracked, unless the battery is actually out of the phone... They know who and where you are if they want to know so if it will make crimigrants give up and go home and stop leaching off our country, I'm all for it... You already can't rent a car or get a hotel room without a credit card and ID, so why not just take that next step if it will free our economy of the leaches that performed a breaking and entering as their greeting to our nation of laws...
Jfor
03-12-2010, 07:56 PM
I like the idea, too.. As long as they put some biological something or other on it like a digital fingerprint that can't be faked.. This would make it impossible for crimigrants to last a week in America... And after that they need to require it for voting.

I'm a Libertarian, and I understand those concerns that some of you have expressed that relate to the gubment tracking you, etc., but they've done challenges with huge cash prizes to get people to try to "drop off the grid," and you simply cannot do it for long.. Anyone that buys a new GM car can be tracked by their ONSTAR (one reason I'll never own a GM car), and if you have a cell phone you can be tracked, unless the battery is actually out of the phone... They know who and where you are if they want to know so if it will make crimigrants give up and go home and stop leaching off our country, I'm all for it... You already can't rent a car or get a hotel room without a credit card and ID, so why not just take that next step if it will free our economy of the leaches that performed a breaking and entering as their greeting to our nation of laws...

I can guarantee you I could drop off the grid completely and nobody would be able to find me. If I had to. The challenges presented that you are talking about, is still living within society. If I had to disappear, I could. AND survive.
stsinner
03-12-2010, 08:10 PM
I can guarantee you I could drop off the grid completely and nobody would be able to find me. If I had to. The challenges presented that you are talking about, is still living within society. If I had to disappear, I could. AND survive.

But life wouldn't be worth living if you had to live that that, IMNSHO...