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View Full Version : Ronald Reagan speaks on National Health Care.



Apocalypse
03-24-2010, 10:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

God we need a leader like him back bad right now.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 12:13 PM
He's dead, so is that decade, so is your youth. None of them are ever coming back. Deal with it.

Megaguns91
03-24-2010, 12:20 PM
He's dead, so is that decade, so is your youth. None of them are ever coming back. Deal with it.

What happened to ARBITRARY Wee Wee?

You are making a prime example of the hypocracy that liberals puke every time they open their fat mouths.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 12:36 PM
What happened to ARBITRARY Wee Wee?

You are making a prime example of the hypocracy that liberals puke every time they open their fat mouths.

What happened to it? Are you holding what I said as some sort of golden ineffable rule that I am bound to? If so, you didn't get what I was saying

Megaguns91
03-24-2010, 12:51 PM
What happened to it? Are you holding what I said as some sort of golden ineffable rule that I am bound to? If so, you didn't get what I was saying


What is the "proper" role of the government? That's for the people to decide and their decision is ALWAYS arbitrary. It's important to remember that it is arbitrary too when a new generation decides to re-define that role.


It's ok to disagree, but before we can have any debate, any discussion, or any sense of understanding we must remember that the concepts and definitions that we ourselves are working with are totally arbitrary.


arbitrary (based on or subject to individual discretion or preference or sometimes impulse or caprice) "an arbitrary decision"; "the arbitrary rule of a dictator"; "an arbitrary penalty"; "of arbitrary size and shape"; "an arbitrary choice"; "arbitrary division of the group into halves"



http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/hypocrite.jpg

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 03:48 PM
http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/hypocrite.jpg

I'm still not catching the contradiction.

Our societal definitions change over time, and they are arbitrarily decided by our various stances on issues, however the "line" between defined roles (like government) are not founded in anything Absolute, but continuously evolving.

Also Reagan is dead and because reality is a constant process of change, the "golden era" of your youth is gone.

Megaguns91
03-24-2010, 04:01 PM
I'm still not catching the contradiction.

Our societal definitions change over time, and they are arbitrarily decided by our various stances on issues, however the "line" between defined roles (like government) are not founded in anything Absolute, but continuously evolving.

Also Reagan is dead and because reality is a constant process of change, the "golden era" of your youth is gone.

I'm 18. The so-called golden era of my youth is supposed to be right now. It's not. I hope that the golden era of the 1930's dies out soon and takes all social programs with it.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 05:12 PM
I'm 18. The so-called golden era of my youth is supposed to be right now. It's not. I hope that the golden era of the 1930's dies out soon and takes all social programs with it.

You do realize that if all social programs were halted millions of people would die, the economy would go into freefall as everyone who benefits from social programs suddenly stop shopping as much, and crime would soar to levels neither of us have ever seen?

Why do you think these social programs are so awful? Keep in mind that they (while never perfect) were put in place to address a problem. If you remove them you are still left with the gaping problem.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 05:18 PM
And the golden era is right now. You were born into the birth of the information revolution. It's changing not just how we enjoy our media or get information but fundmentally changing how we think, how we function as a society, and dissolving old limits. Even without the political changes you're already living in what will be looked back as a change as major as the Industrial Revolution. However, it's all tied together.

Looking back to a previous era for guidance for political, economic, cultural, ect. issues won't work if you are hoping to regain that and simply hold it. Every aspect of society changes together, so because the Reagan days were so different culturally, technologically, philosophically, economically, you cannot expect one solid lesson on one issue from that time to be applicable today.

The key to history is learning how society has evolved through history, evolution is stability. Rigidity causes breakage.

Lager
03-24-2010, 05:22 PM
I disagree with your statement that all social programs were put in place to address a problem. I think a more accurate statement is that social programs were put in place to appease a special interest or curry political favor. Now of course I am not talking about every social program. There are some that stand on their own merits.

You could almost always make a case that helping [insert special interest group, object or cause here] is a "nice" thing to do. Perhaps even a noble or worthy thing as well. However it's harder to justify that it's a "necessary" thing to do, or more so that it's necessary for the government to do it.

Hansel
03-24-2010, 05:56 PM
You do realize that if all social programs were halted millions of people would die, the economy would go into freefall as everyone who benefits from social programs suddenly stop shopping as much, and crime would soar to levels neither of us have ever seen?

Why do you think these social programs are so awful? Keep in mind that they (while never perfect) were put in place to address a problem. If you remove them you are still left with the gaping problem.

I realize that people who have lost their jobs need income to live on but when you give them tax dollars that is like taking it out of one pocket and putting it in the other. Worse yet, we are using way to many borrowed dollars.

In time we will have to face the consequences of our incessant borrowing and I posted an article from somewhere on that very thing. It seems that our credit rating is in danger of being down graded, which means higher borrowing costs in the future.

Reagan said that the best form of a handout is a paycheck. But bottom feeders have learned they don't have to work to earn a check, just lay back and let George carry the load. I have had the misfortune to live in slum like conditions after a punitive divorce settlment years ago so I have a good feel about the mentality of those on the take. It is habit forming.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 05:57 PM
I disagree with your statement that all social programs were put in place to address a problem. I think a more accurate statement is that social programs were put in place to appease a special interest or curry political favor. Now of course I am not talking about every social program. There are some that stand on their own merits.
You could almost always make a case that helping [insert special interest group, object or cause here] is a "nice" thing to do. Perhaps even a noble or worthy thing as well. However it's harder to justify that it's a "necessary" thing to do, or more so that it's necessary for the government to do it.

A special interest still has a problem that they want solved. You can say that medicare was to appease liberal interest groups and it may have done so, but it doesn't change the fact that many elderly needed help. Just because a third party benefits from a problem being solved doesn't effect the relationship of the solution to that problem.

Lager
03-24-2010, 06:16 PM
As I said, there are some social programs that stand out as worthy and that most of us would agree to support. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone against programs taking care of the elderly or war vets, just to name a couple as an example.

The problem comes when everyone thinks their needs are just as important and suddenly every voter belongs to a special interest group. Eventually everyone looks to government as the first resort instead of the last resort. When government programs cause people to become dependent on them, then instead of helping, they are hindering. Individuals cede control over their lives for comfort.

The problem in question was supposed to be that the cost of health insurance was becoming too high. Look at the complex, confusing, catastrophe of new laws and regulations we were saddled with just to address that problem.