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Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 06:25 PM
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/move-to-legalize-marijuana-in-california-sparks-fears-about-drop-in-prices/

welp

Megaguns91
03-24-2010, 06:27 PM
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/move-to-legalize-marijuana-in-california-sparks-fears-about-drop-in-prices/

welp

You best be moving to California if you're not already there Wee Wee.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 06:28 PM
I think this is one issue where liberals and tea party conservatives agree. The war on drugs is wasteful, does no good, causes more problems, and infringes on a harmless liberty. Anyone who can justify tobacco or alcohol being legal knows the same applies with marijuana.

Also, more importantly, it may be a big step in how we deal with drugs as a whole, inspire lateral thinking towards a new generation of responsible drug regulation.

Megaguns91
03-24-2010, 06:29 PM
I think this is one issue where liberals and tea party conservatives agree. The war on drugs is wasteful, does no good, causes more problems, and infringes on a harmless liberty. Anyone who can justify tobacco or alcohol being legal knows the same applies with marijuana.

Also, more importantly, it may be a big step in how we deal with drugs as a whole, inspire lateral thinking towards a new generation of responsible drug regulation.

I'm anti-drugs.

My whole family is anti-drugs.

I've never touched 'em.
Had plenty of opportunity.

I hope there are people who'll back me up on this. Drugs are not harmless.

fettpett
03-24-2010, 06:31 PM
They Legalize it outright then other states will follow suit. Personally think this will help their Budget issues. One drop a shit ton of people off their books for idiotic offense and they can tax pot out the ass if they wanted too

Lanie
03-24-2010, 06:31 PM
Go CA!

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 06:32 PM
I believe the war on drugs was a war on an ideology. No doubt drugs can change how you think when using them, and in the 60's it changed into an anti-capitalist counterculture that seemed to pose a real threat. Now it should be obvious that it doesn't matter. Even if a guy tokes up and thinks "fuck the man" and reads Marx he still keeps on participating in the system, if only "ironically".

fettpett
03-24-2010, 06:44 PM
I believe the war on drugs was a war on an ideology. No doubt drugs can change how you think when using them, and in the 60's it changed into an anti-capitalist counterculture that seemed to pose a real threat. Now it should be obvious that it doesn't matter. Even if a guy tokes up and thinks "fuck the man" and reads Marx he still keeps on participating in the system, if only "ironically".

depends on the drug. Pot was attacked for other reasons

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 06:44 PM
I'm anti-drugs.

My whole family is anti-drugs.

I've never touched 'em.
Had plenty of opportunity.

I hope there are people who'll back me up on this. Drugs are not harmless.

Well, nothing is harmless, but something like marijuana poses such a small risk compared to any group of social issues. Every drug is different in character, in subculture, in structure, and in effect so they can't be talked about as a whole, but for THC it's almost the least physically harmful of any drug and one of the least psychologically harmful (but it's always temporary except in people with latent mental issues like schizophrenics).

It's ok to not use drugs, but I'm sure you use some (medicine, coffee or tea, perhaps even the very deadly alcohol or tobacco). It's about a preference of consciousness.

Some drugs create deep social problems regardless of the social position they get, I can't imagine at this point something like methamphetamine or heroin becoming legal but we should surely change how we deal with them because drug policy has the potential to create a void that criminals fill for enormous profits. Simply making something illegal makes it's value skyrocket, if you believe in the basics of supply and demand, then it should be clear that there can never be an effective prohibition.

Instead, we need to continue with supply-side enforcement, offer treatment and humane programs to addicts to prevent the spreading of diseases, and most of all fundamentally re-think what the goal is behind drug policy (however the both the legal and illegal drug industries have enormous power)

Odysseus
03-24-2010, 06:49 PM
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/move-to-legalize-marijuana-in-california-sparks-fears-about-drop-in-prices/

welp

California voted to legalize marijuana for medical use several years ago and they've been involved in protracted fights with the feds ever since. What do they think voting to legalize it again will accomplish? Or are they so stoned that they forgot about the first vote and think that it's still illegal?

Apocalypse
03-24-2010, 06:53 PM
Problem Wei wei.

Even if done, it will be like Medical Marijuana. Might be legal by the state, but not by the Feds. Your still going to face getting your ass busted by the Feds if passed, and the Feds can strong-arm Cal. into not passing this by threatening to cut Fed. funding.

fettpett
03-24-2010, 06:56 PM
Problem Wei wei.

Even if done, it will be like Medical Marijuana. Might be legal by the state, but not by the Feds. Your still going to face getting your ass busted by the Feds if passed, and the Feds can strong-arm Cal. into not passing this by threatening to cut Fed. funding.

possibly, but the feds don't do anything as it is in CA, there are several states were Pot is Medically Legal and the Feds don't do a lot there either. the only thing that the Feds are doing are fighting the 8 States that have legalized Growing Hemp.

Apocalypse
03-24-2010, 07:13 PM
possibly, but the feds don't do anything as it is in CA, there are several states were Pot is Medically Legal and the Feds don't do a lot there either. the only thing that the Feds are doing are fighting the 8 States that have legalized Growing Hemp.
Really? A quick search of the news comes up with:

#
Medical Marijuana Crackdown
South Coast dispensaries raided, operators arrested; will charges stick?
Santa Barbara Independent - Feb 25 12:08 AM
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTTkrVqKpL4TEAaAjQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBjZGM1ZGE 1BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=12srth7vi/EXP=1269561941/**http%3a//www.independent.com/news/2010/feb/25/medical-marijuana-crackdown/

#
Fresno Marijuana Dispensary Defiantly Re-Opens
The defiant owner of a Fresno medical marijuana dispensary opened for business Friday just hours after a judge ordered him to stop, or go to jail.
KFSN-TV Fresno - Mar 19 10:22 PM

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTTksdqqpL_o8A4BrQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHZkMjZ yBHBvcwMxBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=13mb5gmkb/EXP=1269562269/**http%3a//abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story%3fsection=news/local%26id=7340567%26rss=rss-kfsn-article-7340567

Among others.

fettpett
03-24-2010, 07:40 PM
ok, so they have done a few raids lately, but they still don't do as much as they did 15 years ago before the Medical use came into being.

Go read up on the reasons that Pot was made illegal, the AMA went before congress and told them (too late) that Marijuana was NOT harmful because they had JUST found out that it was Hemp and said they disagreed with the purposed law. MOST people didn't know what Marijuana was. the way it was protrayed was something like Cocaine that was killing people and causing insanity and what not.

There are so many uses for Hemp the Department of Agriculture called it the Contry's first Billion dollar crop in the 30's. it's been used for Thousands of years for various things including herbal remedy. the whole reason it's illegal is bull

http://www.world-mysteries.com/marijuana1.htm

Apocalypse
03-24-2010, 08:00 PM
Opposed to a pro-marijuana website. I prefer Medical ones.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur5bs6pLPIIBUcdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzOXZpNm1 mBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4NjBfMTA4/SIG=125281kp4/EXP=1269564635/**http%3a//www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html



What Other Adverse Effect Does Marijuana Have on Health?

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Effects on the Lungs
Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Marijuana and Mental Health
A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.6 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.

Lanie
03-24-2010, 09:11 PM
Opposed to a pro-marijuana website. I prefer Medical ones.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur5bs6pLPIIBUcdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzOXZpNm1 mBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4NjBfMTA4/SIG=125281kp4/EXP=1269564635/**http%3a//www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html



What Other Adverse Effect Does Marijuana Have on Health?

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Effects on the Lungs
Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Marijuana and Mental Health
A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.6 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.

I wouldn't deny any of what you're talking about, except maybe the schizophrenia. I find that very hard to believe.

I decided to look up the good things. Obviously, glaucoma treatment is one of them. Unfortunately, it's not as good as I thought.

http://www.glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.php

It says that there are too many side effects for it to be better than current medications. I do think though that in light of how expensive our meds are, that medical marajuna should be an option.

This discusses how it can help those with AIDS.

http://www.aids.org/factSheets/731-Marijuana.html


WHY DO PEOPLE WITH HIV USE MARIJUANA?
People with HIV use marijuana to stimulate appetite and to reduce nausea.


Many people with HIV have low appetite. This can be due to fatigue or drug side effects. Low appetite can lead to AIDS wasting (see fact sheet 519.) Marijuana stimulates the appetite, preventing these problems.

Some people with HIV get nauseated when they take antiretroviral medications (ARVs). This can make it difficult to take all scheduled doses. Marijuana can help control the nausea.

It may also relieve the pain of peripheral neuropathy (see fact sheet 555) and is being studied for that purpose.

It's given pain relief to those who have HIV.

http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20080805/marijuana-eases-nerve-pain-due-to-hiv

AMA studies on it.

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1272/95/34417/ama-gives-medical-marijuana-boost.html


There has been over 30 years of research on medical marijuana, yet, very little due to the fact that marijuana is a Schedule I, in addition to heroin and LSD, and so the ability to study it is limited. However, it has been shown to help many people who are suffering and nothing else helps them. These are not people who are criminals or addicted. These are people who have cancer, maybe dying, and are in serious pain and nausea and vomiting.



I think that medical marajuana should be between a patient and his/her doctor, not between a patient and Congress. No Congressman knows my body or anybody else's the way our doctors do. I also think the war on drugs have been pretty useless. I think it's done nothing more than empower drug dealers. If marajuana was legal, that would be one less item for drug dealers to sell. They also couldn't use marajuana to sneak harder drugs into people.

I think the government needs to start staying out of this.

Apocalypse
03-24-2010, 09:17 PM
I think that medical marajuana should be between a patient and his/her doctor, not between a patient and Congress. No Congressman knows my body or anybody else's the way our doctors do. I also think the war on drugs have been pretty useless. I think it's done nothing more than empower drug dealers. If marajuana was legal, that would be one less item for drug dealers to sell. They also couldn't use marajuana to sneak harder drugs into people.

I think the government needs to start staying out of this.To late now!! Obamacare passed!! Guess what, Congress will now have a say in your health-care!!

Rockntractor
03-24-2010, 09:30 PM
To late now!! Obamacare passed!! Guess what, Congress will now have a say in your health-care!!
That is a very good point! Liberals want the government out of our bedrooms and away from our personal habits but have no problem turning our entire bodies over to government health care!

Freeman_Shadwell
03-24-2010, 10:01 PM
I know this may not be a popular opinion here, but I'll say it anyway. I'm against the "war on drugs". Let me preface by saying that I'm not a drug guy and never have been,and random urine tests are a condition of my employment. It's just not, and never has been my thing.

That being said, I'm not naive on the subject either. I've lost friends to drugs, I've seen other friends turn their lives around and become productive members of society and good family men after deciding they didn't want to be a slave to addiction. It's a choice.

My brother in law has been a crack and heroin addict since before I met my Wife 13 years ago. Since then he's been in and out of jails, hospitals, and court ordered rehabs. He's cost the family tens of thousands of dollars not only in charitable givings every time he "turned his life around", but in theft.

The war on drugs didn't then, and never will help people like him. Were it not for the war on drugs he'd probably have been found OD'd dead somewhere years ago. Instead, he lives to steal, rob, and whatever else another day. Not to mention that his addiction entitles him to $700 a month in food stamps as his addiction is a "handicap" that impedes his ability to be employed. Guess what he does with those food stamps? You guessed it! He sells them for 50 cents on the dollar and buys dope.

If some waste of space dope head wants to smoke,snort, shoot up, or what ever, more power to them. So long as they earn their own money to support their habit, go for it. It's natural selection as far as I'm concerned. Let them kill themselves, just keep it away from me.

Theft, robbery, prostitution, and fraud are illegal regardless of intent to buy drugs. Let them kill themselves in a burned out abandoned house in the ghetto. I have no sympathy for dopers.

Wei Wu Wei
03-24-2010, 10:25 PM
Problem Wei wei.

Even if done, it will be like Medical Marijuana. Might be legal by the state, but not by the Feds. Your still going to face getting your ass busted by the Feds if passed, and the Feds can strong-arm Cal. into not passing this by threatening to cut Fed. funding.

Actually one of the first things Obama did when he entered office was loosen DEA enforcement on medical marijuana clinics

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1235791514280380.xml&coll=7

Lager
03-24-2010, 10:49 PM
It might be easier to pass all sorts of far reaching legislation over the heads of a nation with a large population enjoying legal marijuana.

"*inhale** **sniff** **cough** passing joint..."Hey, ja hear? Obama's going to make it so we won't have to pay for medical care anymore, and then he's going to forgive all our student loans." Oh... really? That's cool.... hey, you got anything to eat man?"

zBoots
03-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Well fuck em. they won. might as well lay back and enjoy it...

fettpett
03-25-2010, 07:51 AM
Opposed to a pro-marijuana website. I prefer Medical ones.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur5bs6pLPIIBUcdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzOXZpNm1 mBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4NjBfMTA4/SIG=125281kp4/EXP=1269564635/**http%3a//www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html



What Other Adverse Effect Does Marijuana Have on Health?

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Effects on the Lungs
Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Marijuana and Mental Health
A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.6 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.


On March 17, 1999, the US Institute of Medicine (IOM) said that smoking marijuana has benefits for the terminally ill. They suggested that studies begin on producing inhalation devices to provide a safe alternative to the harmful effects of smoking. The study concluded that cannabinoids can be useful in treating pain, nausea and appetite loss caused by advanced cancer and AIDS. D-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) also acts as a sedative and reduces anxiety, which in itself may have therapeutic effects. The results of the studies done by IOM also stated that there was no evidence for marijuana being a "gateway" to harder drugs, or that it is addictive.


A common theme that has been echoed in many of the studies or reviews of studies that have been done is that more research is needed in order for one to come to a clear conclusion about the therapeutic effects of marijuana. For groups who are interested in therapeutic uses, they advocate for proper trials of individual cannabinoids for specific disorders to be performed. Yet, regardless of whether all of the current research is conclusive or not, it has been noted throughout history that people feel relief and obtain pleasure from marijuana. One would find it difficult to discover another drug that has as many benefits as marijuana. In the past, records have shown that people smoked marijuana for its euphoric effects, painkilling quality, and for religious purposes. History has shown that the effects of marijuana can be beneficial. Yet, in the present day, due to advances in research and research techniques, skeptics are not so quick to call marijuana beneficial.

The risks of abuse versus therapeutic benefits is the main issue behind the debate of legalizing marijuana. Results obtained from studies that deem marijuana as a "gateway drug," a drug that leads to the consumption of other illicit drugs, have so far proven inconclusive. Studies have shown that there are more benefits to smoking marijuana than there are risks. The results of these studies should be interpreted with caution because most of them produced mixed results. However, for those who use marijuana as a last resort to treat their pain, they should have the option of having access to it via legal channels. Whether physiological evidence supports use or not, those people who use marijuana to sooth illness obviously feel better by using it. If marijuana use is psychological, then so be it. The bottom line is that marijuana use for therapeutic purposes should feel effective to those who are using it. From the hundreds of studies done over the years, scientists and the general public have a general notion of what the short and long term effects are. If one is willing to take the risk and use marijuana to help them cope with their illness, then it is their choice to do so. There is an obvious necessity for more research to be done. Science is headed in the right direction by developing new drugs that mimic the effects of marijuana and by continuing its quest to learn more about it. Until drugs are developed that work as well as smoking marijuana, there should be no doubt that this wonder drug should be allowed for medicinal use. History has dictated that there definitely is a role for marijuana in society. Science has shown that there are more positives than negatives in smoking marijuana. Up to this point in time, all of the evidence presented so far has made it clear that when it comes to the issue of marijuana for therapeutic use, the benefits outweigh the risks.

http://www.onlinepot.org/medical/positivepot.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=8E3NXew8MIUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Marijuana+and+Medicine:+Assessing+the+Science+B ase&source=bl&ots=VOHrWMPGqr&sig=GFNc7HeepwkbD1ZtFy7CeeOekMc&hl=en&ei=IlerS92rJMKWtgejy825Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false


Yeah, there are Issues with Hemp, but how many "Legal" pharmaceutical drugs have as many or MORE harmful side affects as Pot? probably 80% of them, when because they are made by a big corporation and given by a doctor they are seen as a good thing, yet a lot of them are addictive or cause more harm than good.

There have only been a few studies done on Hemp and it's affects (Israel is about the only place that has), due to it's classification as a Class One Narcotic meaning it has no Medical benefit what so ever, yet that's not even close to the truth. 5,000 years of use medically out way the few years of rabid anti-use. And the studies done are fairly inconclusive.

noonwitch
03-25-2010, 08:04 AM
Opposed to a pro-marijuana website. I prefer Medical ones.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur5bs6pLPIIBUcdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzOXZpNm1 mBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4NjBfMTA4/SIG=125281kp4/EXP=1269564635/**http%3a//www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html



What Other Adverse Effect Does Marijuana Have on Health?

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Effects on the Lungs
Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Marijuana and Mental Health
A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.6 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.


I think people with mental health problems have a tendency to self-medicate.


I also believe that most of the health problems would be minimized if people ate marijuana as opposed to smoking it. If it's legal, many people will choose to consume it in brownie form.

zBoots
03-25-2010, 08:31 AM
The question is not really whether its good or bad for you. Reefer madness is over. In CA, especially where I live, growing Medical pot is so prevalent you smell it in several areas while driving home from work. This is a known issues. It literally is everywhere. I was in a nursery recently getting garden supplies and I saw a sign "This is the preferred soil for Medical Cannibas" or something like that. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Very strange and surreal how it is today, growing up in the 80's as I did.

It is a real driving force of my areas economy, lord knows there are no jobs. You can already just drive to a pot store and buy dope right now in CA. All you need is the magic card. Its right up the road.

The question is do we need to keep putting people in jail and prison and enforcing MJ laws on a few while playing footsie with the Medical Marijuana, which is now officially absurd? Do we need to keep doing busts, only to have them whip out their "prop 215 card" and make that a big waste? Or do we want to tax it and move on.

I think heart rate studies and all that are great, but that is not the issue in CA. I think those are issues in Georgia or Florida get to worry about :) . The reefer madness arguments are about as tired as the people with the "But you can make a rope out of it" or "It cures cancer" arguments. We all know what it does. The issue in CA is to tax or not to tax and stop playing the Med Mj game, just decide to legalize it.

Rebel Yell
03-25-2010, 08:51 AM
Marijuana is no worse than alcohol. I've smoked enough in my lifetime to fill up a warehouse, haven't touched it in years, thouh. I've never heard of someone killing someone or beating their wife high on dope.

I've know potheads (I was one), meth heads, crackheads, and pretty much abusers of all drugs. No one in worse than an alcoholic.

Watch Intervention on A&E and tell me who the worst addicts are. If California, or any other state, legalizes it, then that's their decision. We can't hope for the states to overturn health care and then want the federal gov to overrule this. It's states rights accross the board.

namvet
03-25-2010, 09:11 AM
great news for the terrorists business. they'll triple the size of the poppy fields. hell they'll probably run the production plants here

fettpett
03-25-2010, 09:11 AM
Marijuana is no worse than alcohol. I've smoked enough in my lifetime to fill up a warehouse, haven't touched it in years, thouh. I've never heard of someone killing someone or beating their wife high on dope.

I've know potheads (I was one), meth heads, crackheads, and pretty much abusers of all drugs. No one in worse than an alcoholic.

Watch Intervention on A&E and tell me who the worst addicts are. If California, or any other state, legalizes it, then that's their decision. We can't hope for the states to overturn health care and then want the federal gov to overrule this. It's states rights accross the board.

abuse is abuse. doesn't matter what it is. we didn't think kids would abuse sharpies and whiteout yet they do. If you have an addictive personality your going to get addicted to something. where it's legal or not. Pot is a huge drain on our economy. just legalize it and tax it. you legalize it and companies will sell the best stuff possible and it can be regulated. otherwise we're going to continue to have the same problems we do now with our Justice System and Prisons, lots of wasted money and over flowing prisons due to stupidity by Government.

fettpett
03-25-2010, 09:12 AM
great news for the terrorists business. they'll triple the size of the poppy fields. hell they'll probably run the production plants here

we're talking about Hemp/Pot not Poppies and Opiates

Megaguns91
03-25-2010, 09:19 AM
we're talking about Hemp/Pot not Poppies and Opiates

If you legalize the first step, often known to experts and law enforcement officers as "the gateway" drug then you're opening a very large door for all drugs.

My problem with legalization is just that, if we legalize one thing, where will the by-laws be and where will we eventually draw the line? I think that a concrete legislation will fail. Doping and driving is a large problem here where I live. I can count at least five people that have died or been seriously injured from my class that have been stoned and driven to go get some munchies or what-have-you.

noonwitch
03-25-2010, 12:34 PM
Marijuana is no worse than alcohol. I've smoked enough in my lifetime to fill up a warehouse, haven't touched it in years, thouh. I've never heard of someone killing someone or beating their wife high on dope.

I've know potheads (I was one), meth heads, crackheads, and pretty much abusers of all drugs. No one in worse than an alcoholic.

Watch Intervention on A&E and tell me who the worst addicts are. If California, or any other state, legalizes it, then that's their decision. We can't hope for the states to overturn health care and then want the federal gov to overrule this. It's states rights accross the board.



I have not dealt with meth-heads, crack and heroin are still the illegal drugs of choice in Detroit. I had a second cousin who died of a drug overdose a few years back-he was in the Renegades (east side biker gang), and the biker gangs in the eastern suburbs are known for using and dealing meth. He was shooting heroin, though.

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is one of the most devastating birth defects there is, and it is totally preventable. Crack babies usually recover and sometimes develop ADHS as older kids, and the major complications come from lifestyle issues, not just the drugs (babies born outdoors in unsanitary conditions). Heroin addicted babies have withdrawl, but recover fairly quickly, although the lifestyle issues and personal hygiene of the mother also come to play. They are usually smaller than their peers.

But babies who are born with FAS are messed up for life. There really is no treatment for them when they are born and go through their withdrawl. They suffer through it. FAS children are always a great deal smaller than their peers, and I can pick one out of a crowd because most have small heads, even on a small frame, and frequently have eyes that are further apart or closer together than they should be. They tend to have IQs that range from 55 to 70. That's permanent damage, done before the child is even born.

I don't think we should ban alcohol because of it, but it is kind of ridiculous that a drug that isn't known to cause birth defects is illegal and one that causes some of the worst birth defects is a celebrated part of our culture.


In Detroit, pot is de facto legal, since the medical marijuana bill passed last fall. There are not enough DPD left to enforce the law. Also, some medical group is talking about building a clinic in the Eastern Market for medical marijuana patients, right in a place where everyone will see it. It might as well be legal, so the state and city can get their cut of tax revenue. I don't think the federal government should be allowed to tax it, unless they are going to legalize it at a federal level, however.

Wei Wu Wei
03-25-2010, 02:06 PM
If you legalize the first step, often known to experts and law enforcement officers as "the gateway" drug then you're opening a very large door for all drugs.

My problem with legalization is just that, if we legalize one thing, where will the by-laws be and where will we eventually draw the line? I think that a concrete legislation will fail. Doping and driving is a large problem here where I live. I can count at least five people that have died or been seriously injured from my class that have been stoned and driven to go get some munchies or what-have-you.

The line is arbitrary now. Salvia Divinorum is a hallucinogen with stronger effects than LSD, perfectly legal and sold in stores. Cocaine is schedule-2, meaning it's still used in medical settings. Marijuana is Schedule-1, meaning total illegality (by federal Law). Alcohol and Tobacco cause more deaths than every illicit drug combined, and they are legal and used everywhere.


Just because we move the line doesn't mean the line goes away. Heroin and methamphetamine are still illegal (for now, keep in mind that Heroin was legally invented by the Bayer company and the United States, Germany, and Japan all used amphetamines on their soldiers in WW2).

So we're moving the line slightly for one of the most harmless of all illegal drugs. Not the slippery slope/

Rebel Yell
03-25-2010, 02:57 PM
The line is arbitrary now. Salvia Divinorum is a hallucinogen with stronger effects than LSD, perfectly legal and sold in stores. Cocaine is schedule-2, meaning it's still used in medical settings. Marijuana is Schedule-1, meaning total illegality (by federal Law). Alcohol and Tobacco cause more deaths than every illicit drug combined, and they are legal and used everywhere.


Just because we move the line doesn't mean the line goes away. Heroin and methamphetamine are still illegal (for now, keep in mind that Heroin was legally invented by the Bayer company and the United States, Germany, and Japan all used amphetamines on their soldiers in WW2).

So we're moving the line slightly for one of the most harmless of all illegal drugs. Not the slippery slope/

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/tadkins472/cartoon1.gif

marv
03-25-2010, 02:59 PM
While we make stupid arguments about the "safety" of pot, crack and on up the chain, and the evils of tobacco and alcohol, let's just admit that birth is a condition that has a 100% fatality rate. See? Isn't that easy?

djones520
03-25-2010, 03:03 PM
They Legalize it outright then other states will follow suit. Personally think this will help their Budget issues. One drop a shit ton of people off their books for idiotic offense and they can tax pot out the ass if they wanted too

Opening the coast line for oil drilling would erase California's budget problem in a year, not to mention have positive implications throughout the whole country. The answer isn't letting pot heads have free reign.

Megaguns91
03-25-2010, 03:10 PM
Opening the coast line for oil drilling would erase California's budget problem in a year, not to mention have positive implications throughout the whole country. The answer isn't letting pot heads have free reign.

Thank you sir! :)

marinejcksn
03-25-2010, 03:14 PM
The war on drugs is wasteful

Holy lord we agree on something Wei!

fettpett
03-25-2010, 05:31 PM
Opening the coast line for oil drilling would erase California's budget problem in a year, not to mention have positive implications throughout the whole country. The answer isn't letting pot heads have free reign.

and why not do both? honestly, how many people have been brainwashed by the "reefer madness" bullshit from the 40's and 50's? when for literally THOUSANDS of years hemp has been used medicinally.

evidence that Pot as a "gateway" drug is sketchy at best. yeah, it can be laced with other drugs, but that is way if you made it legal and put restrictions on it like Tobacco and Alcohol, MORE if you want, tax the shit out of it for all i care, but having something that's been used for that long as a medicine turned into a Schedule-1 Narcotic is asinine.

We legalize Marijuana and over night you kill 3/4 of the drug runners out of Mexico's business, plus you dry up all the morons that go out to the middle of State and National Parks and grow it, endangering hikers and Park officials (who can't carry weapons to protect themselves or couldn't till recently) lives, as well as damage the forests. On top of all that you get control of over population in prisons/jails for selling Pot (about 80% of all arrests are Pot related) saving Tax money there.

Be realistic, we're not talking about Cocaine, Heroine, Opiates, Crack, LSD etc. that everyone agrees are FAR more dangerous and harmful than Pot.

zBoots
03-25-2010, 09:13 PM
If you legalize the first step, often known to experts and law enforcement officers as "the gateway" drug then you're opening a very large door for all drugs.

My problem with legalization is just that, if we legalize one thing, where will the by-laws be and where will we eventually draw the line? I think that a concrete legislation will fail. Doping and driving is a large problem here where I live. I can count at least five people that have died or been seriously injured from my class that have been stoned and driven to go get some munchies or what-have-you.

WA is also going to be legalizing this year most likely anyway. ANd you may be right, it may be opening a door for some type of different approach to the war on drugs; however, youre not going to get full drug legalization out of the gov or by popular vote any time soon. I cant say I'm ready for full legalization either; although prohibition still isnt working. Nonetheless, a lot of agencies employ a lot of people and buy a lot of toys to go hunt down drugs. Billions and billions of our dollars are on the line and they aint gonna want to let those go.

Medical Marijuana is definitely a gateway to legalization of MJ though, that can't be denied. That angle is working coast to coast.

Swampfox
03-25-2010, 09:42 PM
Good. Let California do what it wants. Drug enforcement is just a colossal waste of tax payer dollars in my opinion. It's not as if California is swimming in cash.

lacarnut
03-25-2010, 09:55 PM
and why not do both? honestly, how many people have been brainwashed by the "reefer madness" bullshit from the 40's and 50's? when for literally THOUSANDS of years hemp has been used medicinally.

evidence that Pot as a "gateway" drug is sketchy at best. yeah, it can be laced with other drugs, but that is way if you made it legal and put restrictions on it like Tobacco and Alcohol, MORE if you want, tax the shit out of it for all i care, but having something that's been used for that long as a medicine turned into a Schedule-1 Narcotic is asinine.

We legalize Marijuana and over night you kill 3/4 of the drug runners out of Mexico's business, plus you dry up all the morons that go out to the middle of State and National Parks and grow it, endangering hikers and Park officials (who can't carry weapons to protect themselves or couldn't till recently) lives, as well as damage the forests. On top of all that you get control of over population in prisons/jails for selling Pot (about 80% of all arrests are Pot related) saving Tax money there.

Be realistic, we're not talking about Cocaine, Heroine, Opiates, Crack, LSD etc. that everyone agrees are FAR more dangerous and harmful than Pot.

You are about the biggest idiot to discuss usage of drugs that I have ever ran across. Reefer madness did not start in the 40's or the 50'; it started in the 60's. How old are you dumb ass, 15?

Drug runners out of Mexico concentrate their efforts by a 5 to 1 margin on selling cocaine. Once again, you do not know what you are talking about. 80% of all arrests are Pot related. Where did you dig those figures from? Must have been from your self induced pothead brain.

Legalization of pot is bad for many reasons. It is a gateway drug. I have personal experience of this FACT.
More governmental employees to administer the taxes. More usage. More crime. I don't have a problem with anyone that uses pot for medical reasons but to allow society to further degrade into the gutter is just beyond me.

Wei Wu Wei
03-26-2010, 12:33 PM
Be realistic, we're not talking about Cocaine, Heroine, Opiates, Crack, LSD etc. that everyone agrees are FAR more dangerous and harmful than Pot.

You'd be surprised.


Cocaine is "more legal" than Marijuana according to federal law (it can be used in medical settings)

Opiates (including Heroin) actually do little to no organ damage, even over the course of years of use. Your body actually isn't harmed from the presence of Opiates it's an opiate OVERDOSE (which is easier than a lot of people realize, simply using the same amount of the drug in a different setting can cause a fatal overdose) that is dangerous.

Crack is pretty bad though.

LSD is the safest drug out there physically and the psychological effects are all temporary except in psychotics.

FlaGator
03-26-2010, 12:37 PM
You'd be surprised.


Cocaine is "more legal" than Marijuana according to federal law (it can be used in medical settings)

Opiates (including Heroin) actually do little to no organ damage, even over the course of years of use. Your body actually isn't harmed from the presence of Opiates it's an opiate OVERDOSE (which is easier than a lot of people realize, simply using the same amount of the drug in a different setting can cause a fatal overdose) that is dangerous.

Crack is pretty bad though.

LSD is the safest drug out there physically and the psychological effects are all temporary except in psychotics.

I really liked acid in my drug using days, but I wouldn't want a whole bunch of people driving around town while tripping.

Megaguns91
03-26-2010, 03:49 PM
I really liked acid in my drug using days, but I wouldn't want a whole bunch of people driving around town while tripping.

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129118750406662138.jpg

Lanie
03-26-2010, 03:53 PM
To late now!! Obamacare passed!! Guess what, Congress will now have a say in your health-care!!

Well, shit.

fettpett
03-26-2010, 08:59 PM
You are about the biggest idiot to discuss usage of drugs that I have ever ran across. Reefer madness did not start in the 40's or the 50'; it started in the 60's. How old are you dumb ass, 15?

Drug runners out of Mexico concentrate their efforts by a 5 to 1 margin on selling cocaine. Once again, you do not know what you are talking about. 80% of all arrests are Pot related. Where did you dig those figures from? Must have been from your self induced pothead brain.

Legalization of pot is bad for many reasons. It is a gateway drug. I have personal experience of this FACT.
More governmental employees to administer the taxes. More usage. More crime. I don't have a problem with anyone that uses pot for medical reasons but to allow society to further degrade into the gutter is just beyond me.

Dude, we had this discussion before, and I'll say again, I'VE NEVER DONE DRUGS, EVER

we were both wrong, Reefer Madness came out in 1936
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_madness

also:

The bill was passed on the grounds of different reports[2] and hearings [3]. Anslinger also referred to the International Opium Convention that from 1928 included cannabis as a drug, and that all states had some kind of laws against improper use of cannabis. Some testimonies included that cannabis caused "murder, insanity and death"[4]. Today, it is generally accepted that the hearings included incorrect, excessive or unfounded arguments.[5] By 1951, however, new justifications had emerged, and a bill that superseded the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 was passed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Marihuana_Tax_Act

so, i misread before what percent of arrests were for Pot, but it's still at 47.5% of all arrests
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7698


Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 723,627 persons for marijuana violations in 2001, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the second highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprises nearly half of all drug arrests in the United States.

"These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said Keith Stroup, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "In fact, the war on drugs is largely a war on pot smokers. This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that should be dedicated toward combating serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."

Of those charged with marijuana violations, 88.6 percent - some 641,108 Americans - were charged with possession only. The remaining 82,518 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses - even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.

The total number of marijuana arrests far exceeds the total number of arrests for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

Since 1992, approximately six million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges, a greater number than the entire populations of Alaska, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming combined. Annual marijuana arrests have more than doubled in that time.

"It's time we stopped arresting adults who use marijuana responsibly," says Stroup.
http://skeptically.org/recdrugs/id8.html

The link to the Government report from 1999 specifically stated that Pot as a gateway drug is INCONCLUSIVE! it's NOT a fact. The Majority of people that smoke pot don't use anything other than pot

and on Mexican Drug Cartels this here from CBS from Last year:


Almost all of the marijuana consumed in the multibillion-dollar U.S. market once came from Mexico or Colombia. Now as much as half is produced domestically, often by small-scale operators who painstakingly tend greenhouses and indoor gardens to produce the more potent, and expensive, product that consumers now demand, according to authorities and marijuana dealers on both sides of the border.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/07/politics/washingtonpost/main5368594.shtml

and THAT is being threatened by home growers

Which is less of a drain on the system, a few Tax collectors counting money

OR

Police arresting users for some Pot, the all the paper work involved, that person sitting in jail over night, being arraigned, possibly sitting in Jail/Prison for the next year.

Alcohol can be just as bad as Pot,if not worse. How many people go out get drunk, beat their kids/wife's, kill someone or themselves while in a drunken fit, drive and kill someone.

emkkahn
03-26-2010, 09:59 PM
..but I think that legalizied MJ is the right thing to do. Remember that at the time, the Founders ALL had hemp growing on their farms. Sails, canvas, and rope we're all made from hemp. They drank lots of beer and (probably) smoked some pot. Who are the Feds to make this choice for Americans? Marijuana is NOT crack, or cocaine, or Meth. Pot is a natural plant provided by the Maker for Man. I don't smoke but I drink my share of beer. I have never met a violent pot smoker, but I've met my share of nasty drunks so...

Anyway, that is my opinion.. and that's all it is...
-Mike

Gingersnap
03-26-2010, 10:21 PM
..but I think that legalizied MJ is the right thing to do. Remember that at the time, the Founders ALL had hemp growing on their farms. Sails, canvas, and rope we're all made from hemp. They drank lots of beer and (probably) smoked some pot. Who are the Feds to make this choice for Americans? Marijuana is NOT crack, or cocaine, or Meth. Pot is a natural plant provided by the Maker for Man. I don't smoke but I drink my share of beer. I have never met a violent pot smoker, but I've met my share of nasty drunks so...

Anyway, that is my opinion.. and that's all it is...
-Mike

Welcome aboard!

I'm a Libertarian and I want it all legalized. The crazy thing is that I will only a take a couple of generic aspirin a year. I have no interest in getting high. I have a big interest in diverting law enforcement resources from weed and in under-cutting the gangs.

You'll get trashed by some here and helped by others - just like real life! :D

Rockntractor
03-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Welcome aboard!

I'm a Libertarian and I want it all legalized. The crazy thing is that I will only a take a couple of generic aspirin a year. I have no interest in getting high. I have a big interest in diverting law enforcement resources from weed and in under-cutting the gangs.

You'll get trashed by some here and helped by others - just like real life! :D
Have you ever tried snorting the aspirin?

Gingersnap
03-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Have you ever tried snorting the aspirin?

You totally outed me, dude. It's true - when I take aspirin I usually chase it with tap water and then I just lose my mind by taking a nap. With some dogs. It's freaking crazy. Then I get wasted on oatmeal cookies.

I think Mr. Snaps is organizing an intervention.

Rockntractor
03-26-2010, 10:37 PM
You totally outed me, dude. It's true - when I take aspirin I usually chase it with tap water and then I just lose my mind by taking a nap. With some dogs. It's freaking crazy. Then I get wasted on oatmeal cookies.

I think Mr. Snaps is organizing an intervention.
I knew it when you said generic! TMI:rolleyes:

Gingersnap
03-26-2010, 10:43 PM
I knew it when you said generic! TMI:rolleyes:

I can't afford the good stuff anymore. At this rate, the bottle will only last me for 10 more years. :(

Rockntractor
03-26-2010, 10:46 PM
I can't afford the good stuff anymore. At this rate, the bottle will only last me for 10 more years. :(

If times get hard you can chew willow bark and get the same buzz!

Gingersnap
03-26-2010, 10:56 PM
If times get hard you can chew willow bark and get the same buzz!

I've still got some pride. I figure I can score some baby aspirin off my MIL, if I have to. She's too old to notice. :cool:

Rockntractor
03-26-2010, 10:59 PM
I've still got some pride. I figure I can score some baby aspirin off my MIL, if I have to. She's too old to notice. :cool:
You will be alright if she isn't a counter. some of them will surprise you!

Gingersnap
03-26-2010, 11:12 PM
You will be alright if she isn't a counter. some of them will surprise you!

She's Norwegian. She's a drinker but not a counter.

Wei Wu Wei
03-28-2010, 01:06 AM
in a poll last year, 56% of Californians said they supported legalizing it.

I don't really get where the opposition would come from. I guess seniors, because it seems both the left and the right support this.


Anyone here though think this is a bad idea? Reasons?

Rockntractor
03-28-2010, 01:10 AM
in a poll last year, 56% of Californians said they supported legalizing it.

I don't really get where the opposition would come from. I guess seniors, because it seems both the left and the right support this.


Anyone here though think this is a bad idea? Reasons?

http://www.vegcakes.com/images/ii_111.jpeg

lacarnut
03-28-2010, 06:47 AM
in a poll last year, 56% of Californians said they supported legalizing it.

I don't really get where the opposition would come from. I guess seniors, because it seems both the left and the right support this.


Anyone here though think this is a bad idea? Reasons?

You guess wrong. The largest increase of pot heads comes from those over 55 years of age. You sure are a dumb ass.

It will probably pass. The funny part is that the government's estimates of 1 billion in new taxes will not happen because of the black market. Who in their right mind will pay a 33% extra tax for legal pot. Revenues from pot will more likely run 1/2 billion which is a drop in the bucket to their 42 billion dollar deficit.

djones520
03-28-2010, 06:49 AM
You guess wrong. The largest increase of pot heads comes from those over 55 years of age. You sure are a dumb ass.

It will probably pass. The funny part is that the government's estimates of 1 billion in new taxes will not happen because of the black market. Who in their right mind will pay a 33% extra tax for legal pot. Revenues from pot will more likely run 1/2 billion which is a drop in the bucket to their 42 billion dollar deficit.

You're probably right on that. How will the government know what pot was legally purchased, and what wasn't? They gonna start trade marking it? Johnny Walker Pot?

Wei Wu Wei
03-28-2010, 06:37 PM
You guess wrong. The largest increase of pot heads comes from those over 55 years of age. You sure are a dumb ass.

It will probably pass. The funny part is that the government's estimates of 1 billion in new taxes will not happen because of the black market. Who in their right mind will pay a 33% extra tax for legal pot. Revenues from pot will more likely run 1/2 billion which is a drop in the bucket to their 42 billion dollar deficit.

The black market increases the price of drugs. The cost of importation, all of the steps from large scale growers, all the intermediaries, until it hits the street are HUGE.

There is usually a 10 or more fold increase in price on illegal drugs just because of the process of moving through the black market.

When a guy in california can start his own garden and open a store, the prices will fall if anything.

Also, ignoring those effects, even if the price was a little higher, I think most people would purchase the legal pot because people do not like to be criminals, they don't like being paranoid, they don't like dealing with shady drug dealers.

Anyone can brew their own beer or grow their own vegetables for cheap but the vast majority of people go to the grocery store anyway and buy it there at a higher price because it's simply more convenient.


Not only is an estimated 1 Billion dollars looking to be made in tax revenue, there are additional savings in law enforcement (all the money currently going into prosecuting marijuana criminals) not to mention new business (medical marijuana cafe's in California have been the fastest growing market in the past couple years) with new employees with more money to spend spend spend.

Wei Wu Wei
03-28-2010, 06:37 PM
You're probably right on that. How will the government know what pot was legally purchased, and what wasn't? They gonna start trade marking it? Johnny Walker Pot?

They tax the sale of it. If it's sold in a store, it's taxed there. Simple enough. How does the government know you payed the proper taxes on your alcohol (after all, you can brew it at home)?

Rockntractor
03-28-2010, 07:05 PM
They tax the sale of it. If it's sold in a store, it's taxed there. Simple enough. How does the government know you payed the proper taxes on your alcohol (after all, you can brew it at home)?
Have you ever thought about using your brain without taking every drug that comes along?:rolleyes: