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CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-07-2010, 01:53 PM
I've noticed something since the election...I think race relations, specifically amongst blacks and whites, have significantly degraded. No, it isn't anywhere nearly as bad as the mid-late 60s was..But I see it approaching the level of the late 80s- early 90s (around '87-93) tension if it continues. It seems there is a division amongst the two races that, once buried, is starting to come to the surface once again.

Just an observation.

NJCardFan
04-07-2010, 01:58 PM
I've noticed something since the election...I think race relations, specifically amongst blacks and whites, have significantly degraded. No, it isn't anywhere nearly as bad as the mid-late 60s was..But I see it approaching the level of the late 80s- early 90s (around '87-93) tension if it continues. It seems there is a division amongst the two races that, once buried, is starting to come to the surface once again.

Just an observation.
And I wonder why that is?:rolleyes: Must be because whites are racist, right?

Speedy
04-07-2010, 02:00 PM
Here is what the driving force behind it is. There are those that made their name and money off of racism. Garnered great power because of it. Now they demand to be important and their arguments are silly. Every single instance of percieved racism can be quieted by this simple statement. "We have a black President, Don't we? Are you aware that he was elected because 4 times as many white people than black people voted for him?"

That is it. The white people of the US gave the black people a black President. Every single claim of black folks being downtrodden abd oppressed by white people falls flat after that.

Wei Wu Wei
04-07-2010, 02:01 PM
The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-07-2010, 02:02 PM
And I wonder why that is?:rolleyes: Must be because whites are racist, right?

I didn't say that, did I? :rolleyes:
I'm white, moron, and I don't feel guilt. It's both sides' fault, with blacks acting like they are the shit because the president is black. I remember hearing black people in my school at the time after the election saying now ''we'' (meaning whites) would be at the back of the bus.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-07-2010, 02:06 PM
And I wonder why that is?:rolleyes: Must be because whites are racist, right?


The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.

I think it's the blacks driving it more now than the whites.
And it was the blacks driving it in the 80s and 90s too. Spike Lee painting all white people as racists and hateful bigots, etc.
In the 50s, and 60s, yes, white people were the driving force behind racism and mistreatment, and yes before that too. I don't feel guilty, personally. Know why? My family never owned slaves. My family, Irish and Italians, were mistreated when they came here. We got over it. My grandfather served in the army in the 50s with black men and got into a fierce bar fight defending his black friend and fellow soldier who was killed a ******. My godfather is black.

Apache
04-07-2010, 02:06 PM
The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.


BULL SHIT!

Chuck58
04-07-2010, 02:07 PM
The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.

There's bigotry in the South. I suggest you take a look at Boston, Chicago and a few other northern towns though, before singling out Dixie. In fact, race relations in the south are vastly better than in many areas north of the Mason Dixon line.

Wei Wu Wei
04-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Here is what the driving force behind it is. There are those that made their name and money off of racism. Garnered great power because of it. Now they demand to be important and their arguments are silly. Every single instance of percieved racism can be quieted by this simple statement. "We have a black President, Don't we? Are you aware that he was elected because 4 times as many white people than black people voted for him?"

That is it. The white people of the US gave the black people a black President. Every single claim of black folks being downtrodden abd oppressed by white people falls flat after that.

Only if you are looking at white people as a solid homogeneous group and black people as a solid homogeneous group.

That's the sort of thinking that spurs racism.

Firstly, there are simply more white people than any other group and far more white people than any other group when it comes to voting, so of course more of them voted for Obama.

There's a big difference between a white graduate student of sociology and a white truck driver attending a Sarah Palin rally. There's a difference between a white high school science teacher and a white restaurant owner.

There is obviously, undeniably, a strong racist wave rearing it's ugly head but that's expected from such a drastic change in the perceived power structure (lmao like anything really changed though)

Megaguns91
04-07-2010, 02:11 PM
BULL SHIT!

http://stickershock23.com/images/funny_bullshit.png

Apache
04-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Only if you are looking at white people as a solid homogeneous group and black people as a solid homogeneous group.

That's the sort of thinking that spurs racism.

Firstly, there are simply more white people than any other group and far more white people than any other group when it comes to voting, so of course more of them voted for Obama.

There's a big difference between a white graduate student of sociology and a white truck driver attending a Sarah Palin rally. There's a difference between a white high school science teacher and a white restaurant owner.

There is obviously, undeniably, a strong racist wave rearing it's ugly head but that's expected from such a drastic change in the perceived power structure (lmao like anything really changed though)

Where in the hell do you come up with this tripe?

Apache
04-07-2010, 02:13 PM
http://stickershock23.com/images/funny_bullshit.png

I wish he would!

Speedy
04-07-2010, 02:14 PM
My wife made an observation once when I pointed out how many of the Black women in her club were married to White or Hispanic men. She said that Black women usually married out of their race for stability. Emotional stability or financial stability or other mature reasons like that. And the women were usually good catches. The women in her club that were married out their race were business owners or lawyers or in executive level management. Yvette is an MD. She said that Black women never marry Ghetto when marrying or having a relationship out of their race. Black men on the other hand usually marry the trailer trashiest white women they can get. You see alot of Black men with White women on Jerry Springer. You never see White men married to Black women on there.

NJCardFan
04-07-2010, 02:16 PM
I didn't say that, did I? :rolleyes:
I'm white, moron, and I don't feel guilt. It's both sides' fault, with blacks acting like they are the shit because the president is black. I remember hearing black people in my school at the time after the election saying now ''we'' (meaning whites) would be at the back of the bus.

And you are typical of white liberal guilt.

Wei Wu Wei
04-07-2010, 02:17 PM
I think it's the blacks driving it more now than the whites.
And it was the blacks driving it in the 80s and 90s too. Spike Lee painting all white people as racists and hateful bigots, etc.
In the 50s, and 60s, yes, white people were the driving force behind racism and mistreatment, and yes before that too. I don't feel guilty, personally. Know why? My family never owned slaves. My family, Irish and Italians, were mistreated when they came here. We got over it. My grandfather served in the army in the 50s with black men and got into a fierce bar fight defending his black friend and fellow soldier who was killed a ******. My godfather is black.

There was, and still is such a thing as institutional racism. Just because you don't have governors screaming the N-word and laws in place specifically isolating minorities doesn't mean our laws don't affect minorities differently than whites.

The policies of the 80's didn't just benefit the rich at the expense of the middle class and at the extreme expense of the poor, they affected races differently too.

Here's a crud example of what I mean:


This is what the 80's meant for a lot of suburban white families:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-IBF8nwSY
(note the total absence of black people and idealistic imagery)


This is what the 80's meant for most minorities who were living in the inner cities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY
(this was made just 2 years before the re-election ad shows above, listen to the lyrics, see the actual images of the time)

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-07-2010, 02:40 PM
There was, and still is such a thing as institutional racism. Just because you don't have governors screaming the N-word and laws in place specifically isolating minorities doesn't mean our laws don't affect minorities differently than whites.

The policies of the 80's didn't just benefit the rich at the expense of the middle class and at the extreme expense of the poor, they affected races differently too.

Here's a crud example of what I mean:


This is what the 80's meant for a lot of suburban white families:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-IBF8nwSY
(note the total absence of black people and idealistic imagery)


This is what the 80's meant for most minorities who were living in the inner cities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY
(this was made just 2 years before the re-election ad shows above, listen to the lyrics, see the actual images of the time)

Yeah, institutional racism exists, it's called Affirmative Action.
As to the '80s...1982 was the height of the mid 70s to early '80s recession that was caused by Presidents who came before Reagan. Need I remind you that one of the biggest icons of the '80s was a black man named Michael Jackson? I have enough pictures of my father and his huge mustache to get a feeling of what the 80s were like.

noonwitch
04-07-2010, 02:49 PM
There's bigotry in the South. I suggest you take a look at Boston, Chicago and a few other northern towns though, before singling out Dixie. In fact, race relations in the south are vastly better than in many areas north of the Mason Dixon line.



As someone who lives in the most racially divided metropolitan area in the US, I understand that racism is not an exclusively southern thing.

The most racially divided metropolitan area in the US is not Atlanta, it's not New Orleans, it's not Birmingham, AL. It's Detroit, Michigan. Come here and see for yourself. It's changing, lately, because the black middle class is getting the hell out of the city and moving to the suburbs. Southfield has been integrated for a while, but my part of Warren is suddenly home to a lot more black families than it was a few years ago when I moved there. Whereas that is probably good for Warren and school funding levels, it's really bad for Detroit.


The whole thing makes me think of an exchange between Scarlett O'Hara and the yankee officer's wives in the novel, not the movie. The yankee women are looking for nursemaids for their babies, Scarlett suggests that they find a former slave woman, and the women were disgusted. One even had the audacity to say to Scarlett O'Hara Kennedy that she wanted a nice irish girl. It's a good literary example of hypocrisy.

Whereas I think Selznick's movie of Gone With The Wind has a lot of racist overtones, Margaret Mitchell's novel is clearly a story being seen through the perspective of a racist and shallow woman. MM was not a racist herself.

Wei Wu Wei
04-07-2010, 02:50 PM
Oh sweet Jesus.

Look up the povery rate in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the poverty rate in the 80's.

Look up the after-tax income growth of middle class families in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the 80's.

Look at the race and class statistics of the 80's.

For the love of god look at anything other than commercials and nostalgiac photographs. The 80's was a great time for some, and an awful time for others. Sadly, minorities got the shit-end of the deal.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
04-07-2010, 02:56 PM
Oh sweet Jesus.

Look up the povery rate in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the poverty rate in the 80's.

Look up the after-tax income growth of middle class families in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the 80's.

Look at the race and class statistics of the 80's.

For the love of god look at anything other than commercials and nostalgiac photographs. The 80's was a great time for some, and an awful time for others. Sadly, minorities got the shit-end of the deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiLziusKW4s

This is the 80s.

NJCardFan
04-07-2010, 03:03 PM
Oh sweet Jesus.

Look up the povery rate in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the poverty rate in the 80's.

Look up the after-tax income growth of middle class families in the 50's and 60's and compare it to the 80's.

Look at the race and class statistics of the 80's.

For the love of god look at anything other than commercials and nostalgiac photographs. The 80's was a great time for some, and an awful time for others. Sadly, minorities got the shit-end of the deal.
And why do you think that is shit for brains? If you think this was manufactured to keep the black man down then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

Wei Wu Wei
04-07-2010, 03:11 PM
And why do you think that is shit for brains? If you think this was manufactured to keep the black man down then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

Institutional and very explicit racism of the past along with an economic policy that benefited the wealthy at the expense of the poor made a terrible mix for lower-class minorities.

Teetop
04-07-2010, 05:28 PM
Institutional and very explicit racism of the past along with an economic policy that benefited the wealthy at the expense of the poor made a terrible mix for lower-class minorities.

No, lazy mother effers who depend on democrats for money, keeps the minorities "down".

I know many successful minorities, and they're not lazy either. And most grew up very poor.

FlaGator
04-07-2010, 05:38 PM
I think that you guys are imagining this. Wish fulfillment perhaps?

I'm reading a lot of talk here but no examples or anything substantial.

Lager
04-07-2010, 05:41 PM
There is obviously, undeniably, a strong racist wave rearing it's ugly head but that's expected from such a drastic change in the perceived power structure (lmao like anything really changed though)

Rearing its ugly head? Where? Show me.
I say it's commendable how quickly and easily Obama was accepted by the American people. Just like Chris Matthews, I 've already forgotten he was black.

Speedy
04-07-2010, 05:55 PM
Rearing its ugly head? Where? Show me.
I say it's commendable how quickly and easily Obama was accepted by the American people. Just like Chris Matthews, I 've already forgotten he was black.

This is about the stupidest thing I ever here. I have actually had people say that they "did not notice" a person was black. To those people I have always said, "You are a bald faced liar!"

Not noticing a person was black. Really? How fucking stupid is that? You saw he was black. The cells in your brain fired and in your memory they recorded the fact he was black. If you dreamed about that person he would be black. Whenever I bring a memory about Barack Obama up in my head, HE IS BLACK!

He has always been black and from the the very first time I laid eyes on him until now, he is Black.

My daughters with Yvette are Black. Yvette is Black and they do not stop being black and I do not stop noticing that they are black. Her is where the rub is. Here is the difference between me and panty wetting, lying liberals is. I don't care! I judge someone and their color is never taken into consideration, neither is their culture or history. I judge them on their actions.

Jeez! Dehr! Duh, I don't even remember if the guy was black, I did not even notice! You really expect someone to believe that shit.

Lager
04-07-2010, 06:02 PM
I was being slightly sarcastic, referencing the famous gaffe of one of the liberal mouthpieces. But seriously, of course you see the color of his skin. However, I really don't take into account his race anymore. I just see him for the decisions that he makes, good or bad, and unfortunately IMHO, mostly bad. That's indicative of how I believe race relations have moved forward.

NJCardFan
04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Institutional and very explicit racism of the past along with an economic policy that benefited the wealthy at the expense of the poor made a terrible mix for lower-class minorities.

Thank you for confirming that you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

Gingersnap
04-07-2010, 10:24 PM
I think there's more race-baiting now than since the early 60s. Studies seem to show that blacks and whites have fewer friendships today than they had in the 60s, 70s, or 80s. Most of that change seems to come from the poor and working classes. They may be equally impoverished, crime-ridden, and unemployed but they no longer socialize in church, at work, or in neighborhoods as much.

On the positive side, college-educated middle class people don't seem to have the same segregated attitude. If you and your wife make X amount of money, send your kids to school Y, and buy your organic veggies at store Z, you are as likely to be friends with people of a different race as not. Your shared education, income, and aspirations are what matters.

In mixed income, mixed skill level work settings I think that whites feel and act with a wholly unnatural restraint around minorities. I've seen this myself. My black secretary feels no particular restraint when commenting on the short-comings of Hispanics in general and illegal aliens in particular. We have several Native Americans who make "interesting" observations about all non-Natives. I've heard some fairly outrageous remarks made by Hispanics about blacks.

I've never heard a white make a racial comment about non-whites in my work setting. It would be instantly reported. Ditto for a similar remark about women made by a man (although I've heard hundreds of negative remarks about men made by women).

Novaheart
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
I've noticed something since the election...I think race relations, specifically amongst blacks and whites, have significantly degraded. No, it isn't anywhere nearly as bad as the mid-late 60s was..But I see it approaching the level of the late 80s- early 90s (around '87-93) tension if it continues. It seems there is a division amongst the two races that, once buried, is starting to come to the surface once again.

Just an observation.

As a rule, the more contact I have with a group of people the more I come to despise them.

Rockntractor
04-07-2010, 10:28 PM
As a rule, the more contact I have with a group of people the more I come to despise them.
Why.:confused:

Novaheart
04-07-2010, 10:29 PM
The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.

Oh please. I'm an old southern white people and I voted for Obama. We all did. We figured that if he could save the country after eight years of rape and pillage then who were we to deny black people that claim to fame? On the other hand, we kind of set him up.

Novaheart
04-07-2010, 10:36 PM
My wife made an observation once when I pointed out how many of the Black women in her club were married to White or Hispanic men. She said that Black women usually married out of their race for stability. Emotional stability or financial stability or other mature reasons like that. And the women were usually good catches. The women in her club that were married out their race were business owners or lawyers or in executive level management. Yvette is an MD. She said that Black women never marry Ghetto when marrying or having a relationship out of their race. Black men on the other hand usually marry the trailer trashiest white women they can get. You see alot of Black men with White women on Jerry Springer. You never see White men married to Black women on there.

Overall, the least suspect marriages between black males and white females tend to be found on military bases. The men tend to be above average and the women respectable. The trash you see on the street only stands out because of the interracial situation, if an equally trashy black woman was with said dirtbag, you simply wouldn't notice either one.

Novaheart
04-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Why.:confused:

I'm an Episcopalian, we like things quiet and mannerly. Good grammar helps too.

CueSi
04-08-2010, 12:16 AM
Institutional and very explicit racism of the past along with an economic policy that benefited the wealthy at the expense of the poor made a terrible mix for lower-class minorities.

This is the most simplistic bullshit I've EVER heard on this forum. StSinner comes close, but... at least he fakes it with statistics and shit.

My family arrived in the US in 1975. . .black immigrants from the islands with $1K and not alot else. They lived in the innercities up through the early 80's. . . somehow my mother found a clerical job at the local Community College . .I guess the institutional racism must be a funny thing because my mom retired as an assistant department head.

Fuck. Your. Simplistic. Bullshit.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but it's not this dumbass simplistic picture you're painting.

~QC

CueSi
04-08-2010, 12:21 AM
Oh please. I'm an old southern white people and I voted for Obama. We all did. We figured that if he could save the country after eight years of rape and pillage then who were we to deny black people that claim to fame? On the other hand, we kind of set him up.

I feel so dirty having laughed at this. It's so wrong and yet... SO TRUE. My inner weave wearing Booquanesha just did two snaps and a head twist and said, "I knew dose crackas didn' wan' Obamah to do nuthin." And it takes ALOT to get Booquanesha riled up.

I H8 CHU. :p

~QC

AmPat
04-08-2010, 12:40 AM
The idea of a black man being president still just doesn't sit with the outdated mentality of many old, southern white people.

Granted this is not representative of all or even most white people, you've got to remember that a lot of people were just raised in a different time, with different beliefs, and don't take kindly to things changing.

Race relations aren't nearly like they were in the 80's and early 90's, there's just a final last-breath backlash from the bitter, old, bigots of the past.

Another Dumb, sweeping generalization by a completely clueless libertard.

I am a southerner and could care less that O Blah Blah is Black. I don't like him because he is anti-American and against everything I hold dear. So take your ignorant and stupid opinion back to that den of racism over to DU where it belongs.

Rockntractor
04-08-2010, 12:42 AM
I'm an Episcopalian, we like things quiet and mannerly. Good grammar helps too.

Well knock me over with a feather! I would have guessed you as a staunch Southern Baptist!:confused:

PoliCon
04-08-2010, 02:09 AM
This is the most simplistic bullshit I've EVER heard on this forum. StSinner comes close, but... at least he fakes it with statistics and shit.

My family arrived in the US in 1975. . .black immigrants from the islands with $1K and not alot else. They lived in the innercities up through the early 80's. . . somehow my mother found a clerical job at the local Community College . .I guess the institutional racism must be a funny thing because my mom retired as an assistant department head.

Fuck. Your. Simplistic. Bullshit.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but it's not this dumbass simplistic picture you're painting.

~QC

QFT.

Sonnabend
04-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Spot the racist.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/wp-content/uploads/racist-cop2.jpg

PoliCon
04-08-2010, 10:30 AM
Spot the racist.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/wp-content/uploads/racist-cop2.jpg

I see two in this picture.

Sonnabend
04-08-2010, 10:32 AM
I see two in this picture.

Then , sir, we are in agreement. :)

noonwitch
04-08-2010, 11:41 AM
This is the most simplistic bullshit I've EVER heard on this forum. StSinner comes close, but... at least he fakes it with statistics and shit.

My family arrived in the US in 1975. . .black immigrants from the islands with $1K and not alot else. They lived in the innercities up through the early 80's. . . somehow my mother found a clerical job at the local Community College . .I guess the institutional racism must be a funny thing because my mom retired as an assistant department head.

Fuck. Your. Simplistic. Bullshit.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but it's not this dumbass simplistic picture you're painting.

~QC


That's why I commented little on this threat, other than to note that Detroit is a very segregated area. Race issues are never simplistic, and everyone has a different perspective on it. Even when talking about Detroit-there's what white people see and comment on, what black people see and comment on, and all the divisions even within those groups. Even within groups, we are all individuals with our own histories, beliefs and opinions.

Novaheart
04-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Spot the racist.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/wp-content/uploads/racist-cop2.jpg

wow! That's poetic, and I don't say that a lot.

NJCardFan
04-08-2010, 12:15 PM
I see two in this picture.

And one of them ain't the white guy.

PoliCon
04-08-2010, 02:02 PM
And one of them ain't the white guy.

Neither of em is a white guy.

Sonnabend
04-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Neither of em is a white guy.

Precisely :D

ironhorsedriver
04-09-2010, 04:56 PM
Only if you are looking at white people as a solid homogeneous group and black people as a solid homogeneous group.

That's the sort of thinking that spurs racism.

Firstly, there are simply more white people than any other group and far more white people than any other group when it comes to voting, so of course more of them voted for Obama.

There's a big difference between a white graduate student of sociology and a white truck driver attending a Sarah Palin rally. There's a difference between a white high school science teacher and a white restaurant owner.

There is obviously, undeniably, a strong racist wave rearing it's ugly head but that's expected from such a drastic change in the perceived power structure (lmao like anything really changed though)

Are you really that ignorant. You think that just your education, or your job, or income decides how politically correct you are? There are white restaurant owners with higher levels of education than some teachers, or sociology students or whatever you hold up as enlightened people.

Chuck58
04-09-2010, 05:43 PM
Are you really that ignorant. You think that just your education, or your job, or income decides how politically correct you are? There are white restaurant owners with higher levels of education than some teachers, or sociology students or whatever you hold up as enlightened people.

I deal mostly with farmers and ranchers. Some have degrees, most don't. What they have is work experience and common sense. Education is nice, and necessary, but having letters after your name doesn't make you an expert, or even smart.

I've known college professors who went from high school, to college, to graduate school, to teaching. They missed the real world. They have opinions and viewpoints about that real world, but they don't live in it.

Come to think of it, in that respect they're much the same as Congress. Educated but insulated from reality.

Novaheart
04-09-2010, 06:28 PM
I deal mostly with farmers and ranchers. Some have degrees, most don't. What they have is work experience and common sense. Education is nice, and necessary, but having letters after your name doesn't make you an expert, or even smart.

I've known college professors who went from high school, to college, to graduate school, to teaching. They missed the real world. They have opinions and viewpoints about that real world, but they don't live in it.

Come to think of it, in that respect they're much the same as Congress. Educated but insulated from reality.

I call them lifers, and I absolutely despise being "taught" by one.