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Gingersnap
04-15-2010, 10:57 AM
Quiet sun puts Europe on ice

14 April 2010 by Stuart Clark

BRACE yourself for more winters like the last one, northern Europe. Freezing conditions could become more likely: winter temperatures may even plummet to depths last seen at the end of the 17th century, a time known as the Little Ice Age. That's the message from a new study that identifies a compelling link between solar activity and winter temperatures in northern Europe.

The research finds that low solar activity promotes the formation of giant kinks in the jet stream. These kinks can block warm westerly winds from reaching Europe, while allowing in winds from Arctic Siberia. When this happens in winter, northern Europe freezes, even though other, comparable regions of the globe may be experiencing unusually mild conditions.

Northern Europe freezes, even though comparable regions experience unusually mild conditions
Mike Lockwood at the University of Reading in the UK began his investigation because these past two relatively cold British winters coincided with a lapse in the sun's activity more profound than anything seen for a century. For most of 2008-9, sunspots virtually disappeared from the sun's surface and the buffeting of Earth by the solar magnetic field dropped to record lows since measurements began, about 150 years ago.

Lockwood and his colleagues took average winter temperatures from the Central England Temperature dataset, which extends back to 1659, and compared it with records of highs and lows in solar activity. They found that during years of low solar activity, winters in the UK were far more likely to be colder than average. "There is less than a 1 per cent probability that the result was obtained by chance," says Lockwood, in a paper to appear in Environmental Research Letters.

Judith Lean, a solar-terrestrial physicist at the US Naval Research Laboratory in Washington DC, says the analysis is statistically robust, and reckons it forms a piece in the larger puzzle of how solar activity influences weather. Often cited by climate-change sceptics as a cause of global warming (see "What are you up to, sunshine?"), the effects of solar cycles have largely evaded the grasp of climate modellers. Lockwood found that when he removed 20th-century warming due to industrial emissions from his models, the statistical link between solar lows and extreme winters was stronger, suggesting the phenomenon is unrelated to global warming. But the sun undeniably has a big influence on weather systems: it is, after all, the energy source that powers them.

New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627564.800-quiet-sun-puts-europe-on-ice.html?full=true)

FlaGator
04-15-2010, 12:13 PM
wilbur! come forth!!!! ;)

wilbur
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
Interesting article - I don't know why I'm being beckoned, this really has few implications regarding AGW, that I can see.

Sonnabend
04-16-2010, 04:54 AM
Interesting article - I don't know why I'm being beckoned, this really has few implications regarding AGW, that I can see.

Other than the fact that AGW is not man made and the sun has a massive role to play in climate?

PoliCon
04-16-2010, 08:28 AM
Other than the fact that AGW is not man made and the sun has a massive role to play in climate?

pshaw! The sun playing a role in climate?? How stupid do you think we are??? :rolleyes:




;)

djones520
04-16-2010, 08:30 AM
This volcano isn't gonna do to much to help winter out in Europe this year. Lots of ash up there, and there is no telling how long that thing is going to keep spewing it.

FlaGator
04-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Interesting article - I don't know why I'm being beckoned, this really has few implications regarding AGW, that I can see.
:)

Novaheart
04-16-2010, 09:24 AM
gwibs

Sonnabend
04-16-2010, 10:40 AM
Lots of ash up there, and there is no telling how long that thing is going to keep spewing it.

I find it hysterical that we are told to "lower our carbon emissions"..and the Greenies cant or wont explain how they will explain away or blame us for a volcano that spews more pollution in a DAY, than a city makes in a YEAR.

What are they gonna do..ask the volcano to pay "carbon offsets"? :confused:

wilbur
04-16-2010, 11:02 AM
I find it hysterical that we are told to "lower our carbon emissions"..and the Greenies cant or wont explain how they will explain away or blame us for a volcano that spews more pollution in a DAY, than a city makes in a YEAR.


I know I've debunked this idea many times over by now, and I know you have had to have read at least one of them - so you are knowingly spreading false information again? We dwarf the CO2 output of volcanoes, every year, by several orders of magnitude - even during eruptions.

Sonnabend
04-16-2010, 11:14 AM
I know I've debunked this idea many times over by now, and I know you have had to have read at least one of them - so you are knowingly spreading false information again? We dwarf the CO2 output of volcanoes, every year, by several orders of magnitude - even during eruptions.

Debunked what? The air is so bad that planes HERE are grounded. Knowingly spread false information? Like when Jones lied and twisted and avoided FOI requests?

AGW is false.

Full stop.

wilbur
04-16-2010, 11:22 AM
Debunked what? The air is so bad that planes HERE are grounded.

So planes are grounded, therefore the volcanic CO2 dwarfs human emissions for a year, in just one day? I think there is a flaw in your reasoning, but I doubt you can be made to understand where it is. Stupid.



AGW is false.

Full stop.

Well, then you must be right, since you added "Full stop" to the end of your baseless assertion. I'm sure the words also carried quite a forceful connotation when you thunk them! That changes everything! ;)

djones520
04-16-2010, 11:22 AM
I find it hysterical that we are told to "lower our carbon emissions"..and the Greenies cant or wont explain how they will explain away or blame us for a volcano that spews more pollution in a DAY, than a city makes in a YEAR.

What are they gonna do..ask the volcano to pay "carbon offsets"? :confused:

The big differance here is that most of the gasses expelled by volcanic activity block the incoming wavelengths, while things like CO2 block the outgoing wave lengths. Volcano's are more an equalizer then a contributor.

Sonnabend
04-16-2010, 07:27 PM
So planes are grounded, therefore the volcanic CO2 dwarfs human emissions for a year, in just one day? I think there is a flaw in your reasoning, but I doubt you can be made to understand where it is. Stupid.

I cant remember the last time all planes were grounded here because Los Angeles exceeded its carbon emission quota. pity you cant sell carbon offsets. :rolleyes:

Novaheart
04-16-2010, 07:47 PM
Debunked what? The air is so bad that planes HERE are grounded. Knowingly spread false information? Like when Jones lied and twisted and avoided FOI requests?

AGW is false.

Full stop.

You total moron. Look around you. Cold winters, hot summers, snow, rain, sleet, hail, and waves, don't forget waves.

Rockntractor
04-16-2010, 07:50 PM
You total moron. Look around you. Cold winters, hot summers, snow, rain, sleet, hail, and waves, don't forget waves.
Classic! Novaheart calling someone a moron!

djones520
04-16-2010, 08:14 PM
I cant remember the last time all planes were grounded here because Los Angeles exceeded its carbon emission quota. pity you cant sell carbon offsets. :rolleyes:

First off, ash is not a greenhouse gas. The released gasses have no effect on the aircraft. The ash clogging aircraft engines is what makes them fall out of the sky. Because this happened in the busiest global path for air traffic, we've got 17,000 grounded flights. No other reason. Had this happened in Africa, you probably wouldn't have heard about it.

Secondly read my above post. The sulfates released by volcanoes block incoming rays not outgoing rays. That is why massive volcanic eruptions cause global cooling.

Rockntractor
04-16-2010, 08:39 PM
It's all bullshit. The earth will be here long after we are gone and the sun will continue to rise and set. When I can get a 100% accurate weather report for the following day I will worry when they start whining about climate change either way. Nobody believes this crap it is a scam to raise taxes and redistribute wealth by the left.

djones520
04-16-2010, 08:48 PM
It's all bullshit. The earth will be here long after we are gone and the sun will continue to rise and set. When I can get a 100% accurate weather report for the following day I will worry when they start whining about climate change either way. Nobody believes this crap it is a scam to raise taxes and redistribute wealth by the left.

Careful what you wish for Rock, cause I can do that forecast for you if I were so inclined. ;)

Rockntractor
04-16-2010, 08:56 PM
Careful what you wish for Rock, cause I can do that forecast for you if I were so inclined. ;)

I have been getting absolutely crappie forecasts around here lately. I might take you up on it. They said I had a 50% chance of rain later this afternoon and evening and I got pored on by a cell that caught them totally by surprise at ten this morning! It is lucky i wasn't pouring concrete this morning like i had planned.

Novaheart
04-17-2010, 12:22 AM
Classic! Novaheart calling someone a moron!

Well, I am often surrounded by morons, but if you'll go back and check, I was being sarcastic.

Novaheart
04-17-2010, 12:23 AM
Classic! Novaheart calling someone a moron!

And how the hell would you know what is classic Novaheart? I've only been here a week or two.

Rockntractor
04-17-2010, 12:36 AM
And how the hell would you know what is classic Novaheart? I've only been here a week or two.

There is a break between classic and Novaheart.

Novaheart
04-17-2010, 12:42 AM
There is a break between classic and Novaheart.

Not to mention between Novaheart and reality.

lacarnut
04-17-2010, 11:05 AM
Well, I am often surrounded by morons, but if you'll go back and check, I was being sarcastic.

See those smilies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Use them the next time.