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Gingersnap
04-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Poll shows vets back energy bill; cite national security

Four out of five veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan think the U.S. would be more secure if the nation were weaned off foreign oil, according to the results of a poll released Tuesday.

The study, conducted by Lake Research Partners in February, also found that 64 percent of the surveyed veterans believe U.S. dependence on foreign energy endangers the lives of our troops by helping funnel money to hostile forces in oil-producing regions.

The survey was commissioned by VoteVets.org, a group that has backed work in Congress to pass broad energy and climate change legislation. It comes as a group of senators try to finish writing a new version of the bill that promotes domestic oil and gas production and nuclear power as well as caps on greenhouse gases blamed for global warming.

Jon Soltz, an Iraq War veteran and the chairman of VoteVets.org, said the survey confirms that "veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan know first-hand the destructive effect our dependence on oil has on our national security and on the battlefield."

Among the findings:

73 percent favor a "comprehensive clean energy and climate bill that invests in clean, renewable energy sources in America and limits carbon pollution." That cuts across all branches of the military and both political parties.

62 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans believe that if climate change legislation were to pass, the amount of oil the U.S. buys from hostile nations would be reduced.

56 percent say that would translate to less funding for and support that oil-producing countries provide to terrorists.

A plurality don't believe that the passage of climate change legislation would translate to fewer troops deployed in unstable oil-producing regions of the world. 47 percent believe a new climate change law would not affect troop deployment in those areas, compared to 43 percent who do.

Pollster Celinda Lake said the survey is unusual because it drills down to a relatively small portion of the U.S. population -- an "enormously expensive" process that requires different sampling techniques than used for more general surveys. The data has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percent, and the sample included 45 percent self-identified Republicans, 25 percent independents and 20 percent Democrats.

Chron (http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2010/04/poll_shows_vets_back_energy_bi.html)

djones520
04-15-2010, 11:52 AM
I'd like to see how the poll was put forward to these people... almost sounds like it led them into these answers.

Rockntractor
04-15-2010, 11:57 AM
I'd like to see how the poll was put forward to these people... almost sounds like it led them into these answers.
They would do that?:confused::mad:

djones520
04-15-2010, 12:02 PM
Well of the 300 or so people at my work center, I can't think of a single one who would say that passing the cap and trade bill would help curb terrorism. So it really sounds to me like it was a "string of conclusions" led alon to the pollee's.

M21
04-15-2010, 12:06 PM
As a retired Veteran who works side by side with Soldiers everyday I'm not at all surprised by the results of this poll. Soldiers opinions encourage me.

Who doesn't believe this statement?


U.S. dependence on foreign energy endangers the lives of our troops by helping funnel money to hostile forces in oil-producing regions.

Gingersnap
04-15-2010, 12:31 PM
Everybody probably sees foreign oil dependence as counter-productive but it's a false dilemma to conclude that government-backed alternative energy is the answer.

I wonder what the poll would have shown if the question was, "Should the United States develop its own oil and coal resources to decrease our dependence on Middle Eastern oil?" :confused:

M21
04-15-2010, 01:26 PM
Everybody probably sees foreign oil dependence as counter-productive but it's a false dilemma to conclude that government-backed alternative energy is the answer.

I wonder what the poll would have shown if the question was, "Should the United States develop its own oil and coal resources to decrease our dependence on Middle Eastern oil?" :confused:

Not "the answer" but one part of finding a solution. Check this out http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/01/17/7041-armys-largest-solar-array-generates-more-than-power/

lacarnut
04-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Not "the answer" but one part of finding a solution. Check this out http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/01/17/7041-armys-largest-solar-array-generates-more-than-power/

Energy produced by Solar, Ethanol and Wind is very expensive and if the government did not heavly subsidize these greenie companies they would go bust. Nautral gas is the most promising part of the solution.

M21
04-15-2010, 04:08 PM
Energy produced by Solar, Ethanol and Wind is very expensive and if the government did not heavly subsidize these greenie companies they would go bust. Nautral gas is the most promising part of the solution.Did you read the article?

lacarnut
04-15-2010, 04:36 PM
Did you read the article?

YES. The government has the ability to make anything cost effective when it provides the up front costs. Now, that money does not fall from the sky; it comes out of our taxes.

marv
04-15-2010, 10:25 PM
Download the bill that went to the Senate.

You'll find little tidbits like needing a license to sell your home certifying that it conforms to government energy standards.

At Thomas.loc.gov...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.2454:

At govtrack.us...scroll down to the questions section...
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2454

I've downloaded the PDF, and at page 376, you'll find "SEC. 204. BUILDING ENERGY PERFORMANCE LABELING PROGRAM." aka a license

FYI, the "SEC. 205. TREE PLANTING PROGRAMS." is at page 392...DUH!

Ain't government wunnerful.....................

M21
04-15-2010, 11:49 PM
Hey Marv, The labeling only applies to new construction not existing structures.

patriot45
04-15-2010, 11:55 PM
Hey Marv, The labeling only applies to new construction not existing structures.

I couldn't read through all that gobley gook! Where does it assure that? I thought the purpose was to garner money from us poor schmucks with existing houses that don't conform!

M21
04-16-2010, 12:07 AM
I couldn't read through all that gobley gook! Where does it assure that? I thought the purpose was to garner money from us poor schmucks with existing houses that don't conform!

Page 392 beginning at line 8.

patriot45
04-16-2010, 12:36 AM
Page 392 beginning at line 8.

It says "This section"! Does that mean the first 392 pages? This doesnt seem too good, I've only glanced over it and it is the gov mandating again! And it seems they reserve the right to change what they want when they want!

patriot45
04-16-2010, 12:36 AM
BTW that was a load of crap to go thru!:D

Rockntractor
04-16-2010, 12:41 AM
http://load-o-crap.com/images/load-o-crap.jpg

M21
04-16-2010, 12:45 AM
If you read the second bullet from the National Association of Realtors.

http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/865087004eadb900a294fab684cb314f/government_affairs_clean_energy_myths_facts.pdf?MO D=AJPERES&CACHEID=865087004eadb900a294fab684cb314f&LID=RONav0019

patriot45
04-16-2010, 12:50 AM
If you read the second bullet from the National Association of Realtors.

http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/865087004eadb900a294fab684cb314f/government_affairs_clean_energy_myths_facts.pdf?MO D=AJPERES&CACHEID=865087004eadb900a294fab684cb314f&LID=RONav0019

If thats true :rolleyes:, we will see. But it still seems like that was what they wanted and had to relent! Those f-ers could make a fortune making us all comply before selling! Sorry, I don't put this past them. Like I said they reserve the right to change anything they want when it becomes law!
Why make this law anyway? With waxmans name on it it is mud to me!

marv
04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Check http://www.nachi.org/forum/f14/cap-and-trade-license-required-your-home-44750/

patriot45
04-16-2010, 01:16 PM
And here! Home intrusion. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=20100413_16_A1 _BillSa656599)

M21
04-16-2010, 01:33 PM
Check http://www.nachi.org/forum/f14/cap-and-trade-license-required-your-home-44750/
This is from last year before the amendments were added exempting exsisting sturctures and applying the legislation to only new construction.

I liked this post though;


Your logic equates to that of the little boy who asked his mom "Why do I have to wipe my butt? I'm only going to be pooping again, later."

Can you remember the photographs of Los Angeles, CA taken in the sixties with the brown haze dome covering it? Are you familiar with the high cancer rates associated with the people living in areas polluted with industrial waste in recent decades?

Rupert Murdock thought that there was nothing to fuss about then, either. However, man-made legislation created technology and jobs that resolved those man-made issues, as well.

The Homestar Bill (which will provide tax incentives for retrofitting existing structures) and the Cap and Trade bill that will mandate other energy control features are only the first small steps in the right direction. Undoubtedly, there will be more.

And the big polluters will spend big dollars with their big lobbiests to attempt to influence people to see the advantages of coal dust much as the cigarette manufacturers advertising the sex appeal of smoking. That is to be expected.

But these bills are all bi-partisan and are assured to pass. It's time for us to join other nations in discovering the economic benefits, including the increases in employment and the creation of new technology, in this new area of energy conservation.

Let me save you the trouble from hearing it later from the stockholders of Exxon when the mass production of cars that run on hydrogen (the main ingredient of water) begin to hit the road. These vehicles will (insert everything bad that is presently being said about any other energy efficient law or measure ever taken, here) and will destroy America. LOL.

Let's face it....there are industries that will be harmed by progress in the energy conservation/environmental protection fields....just as there will be industries created and thriving. We are at the cusp of a new phase, much like those who operated the livery stables when the automobile was invented. We can expect these very wealthy and very frightened industries to go out with as much noise as they can make....but it doesn't mean we have to be affected by it.