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Gingersnap
04-22-2010, 08:21 PM
Smirking at Virtue
by Joseph Sobran
fitzgerald griffin foundation


[Why the world hates good people.]

DUNN LORING, VA —One sin you don’t hear much about is envy: the hatred of the good for being good. Yet it’s one of the most basic human temptations, making its first recorded appearance near the beginning of the book of Genesis, when Cain hates — and kills — his brother Abel for being favored by the Lord.

This kind of envy is not to be confused with coveting another’s possessions. Mere jealousy of wealth can be assuaged by acquiring wealth. But envy arises from the humiliation of moral inferiority. It makes you want to denigrate or even destroy the person you feel is better than you. Usually it takes the form of detraction and slander, but it can even go to Cain’s extreme.

Since you can’t explain envy in economic terms, it has gone off the moral map in recent times. Unlike greed, lust, and gluttony, it’s a spiritual sin that baffles materialist analysis.

But most of the human race has always been well aware of envy. Literature bears witness to it in such deadly villains as Shakespeare’s Iago, Milton’s Satan, and Melville’s Claggart (in Billy Budd). They have nothing to gain by their hatred; they get their satisfaction by making those they hate suffer. Envy craves its perverse revenge on virtue and innocence.

When Princess Diana and Mother Teresa died within a week, there was far more media criticism of the merciful nun than of the swinging princess. ABC’s commentators on Mother Teresa’s funeral included the leftist Christopher Hitchens, who has written a book attacking her with the smirking title “The Missionary Position.” (He has also called her “the hellbat” and “hell’s angel.”) Newsweek carried an essay by the feminist Germaine Greer denigrating her indefatigable works of charity. The Philadelphia Inquirer ran a similar essay by a liberal Catholic.

Spiritual goodness humiliates us sinners precisely by reminding us how short we fall. Sometimes we are tempted to hate others just for trying to practice virtues we’ve given up on.

More at the link.

I posted this because the concept has been on mind lately. It seems as though there really is a cultural effort to drag everybody down to a common moral "average". As best I can work out, if you never express an interest in sexual continence, avoiding addictions, giving your employer an honest day's work, or any other non-ecological virtue, you can never be accused of hypocrisy.

On the other hand, when you get drunk, have random sex and get diseased or psychologically traumatized, get fired for incompetence, or whatever you get an automatic compassion card as long as you've never actually expressed any negative observations (religious or moral observations) about those behaviors.

Why do we seem to want people with religious or moral standards to fall short of them? Elites delighting in hypocrisy is nothing new but over the past half century it seems as though everybody wants everybody else to stumble. Why is this? :confused:

FGF Books (http://www.fgfbooks.com/Sobran-Joe/2010/Sobran100407.html)

patriot45
04-22-2010, 10:23 PM
OK Ginger! Just for that you get a baby Rock!! :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/Piglet.jpg


As for your post, I'm dragging everyone down to my level!:D

Gingersnap
04-22-2010, 10:41 PM
I don't mind a cute pig being a cute pig but I don't think that culturally we need to expect (and hope) that Lassie becomes a cute pig just because Lassie may have investigated the garbage can a little too closely. ;)

patriot45
04-22-2010, 10:55 PM
I don't mind a cute pig being a cute pig but I don't think that culturally we need to expect (and hope) that Lassie becomes a cute pig just because Lassie may have investigated the garbage can a little too closely. ;)

I just know there is a hidden meaning in all that! But I'm having a vodka and Dew and waiting very impatiently for my pizza! But Who is lassie, the boy holding the pig? or the pig being held by the boy!?
Now when I look at that pic I see bacon!!

Where the heck is my pizza?

CueSi
04-22-2010, 11:02 PM
I see that come out in what I thought was normal people with the mention of two words : Tim Tebow. I see normal, everyday dudes, just sneer and roll eyes like some prissy drag queen over this guy. The reason? He's not just a "nice kid", the man is still a virgin and totally cool with that.

I never gave a tinkers damn about Tebow till he found himself being questioned by reporters about his state of chastity. Their reaction? Pure shock, even a couple snickers and he just - - giggled. The fact that he found their shock HILARIOUS demonstrated why some people have to smirk at virtue. . . because virtue maybe knows how funny it is to try and be shocking.

I started to respect him for that.

~QC

Gingersnap
04-22-2010, 11:12 PM
I see that come out in what I thought was normal people with the mention of two words : Tim Tebow. I see normal, everyday dudes, just sneer and roll eyes like some prissy drag queen over this guy. The reason? He's not just a "nice kid", the man is still a virgin and totally cool with that.

I never gave a tinkers damn about Tebow till he found himself being questioned by reporters about his state of chastity. Their reaction? Pure shock, even a couple snickers and he just - - giggled. The fact that he found their shock HILARIOUS demonstrated why some people have to smirk at virtue. . . because virtue maybe knows how funny it is to try and be shocking.

I started to respect him for that.

~QC

It's funny you mention him. I have zero interest in sports but the treatment this guy has gotten in the press caught my attention.

He apparently doesn't bang random cheerleaders while sucking up sponsor-potential liquor. He seems to take his Christian walk seriously (something we would applaud if he was Muslim or Buddhist). He also seems to be able to have meaningful life apart from sports.

Pussy winger Jesus boy. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
04-22-2010, 11:19 PM
OK Ginger! Just for that you get a baby Rock!! :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/Piglet.jpg


As for your post, I'm dragging everyone down to my level!:D
Ginger was kinda chubby when she was a kid, maybe a little butch.:confused:

Gingersnap
04-22-2010, 11:29 PM
Ginger was kinda chubby when she was a kid, maybe a little butch.:confused:

Kinda your dream combo, right?

Rockntractor
04-22-2010, 11:30 PM
Kinda your dream combo, right?
Thinking thinking....:D

CueSi
04-22-2010, 11:57 PM
It's funny you mention him. I have zero interest in sports but the treatment this guy has gotten in the press caught my attention.

He apparently doesn't bang random cheerleaders while sucking up sponsor-potential liquor. He seems to take his Christian walk seriously (something we would applaud if he was Muslim or Buddhist). He also seems to be able to have meaningful life apart from sports.

Pussy winger Jesus boy. :rolleyes:


Eh... his Good Boy personality actually makes this stripper kinda - - hot. Probably because he is the type of guy girls like me never meet and never get to date or be with.

~QC

Gingersnap
04-23-2010, 12:07 AM
Eh... his Good Boy personality actually makes this stripper kinda - - hot. Probably because he is the type of guy girls like me never meet and never get to date or be with.

~QC

Oh, you wouldn't be the first to find redemption/new work in the arms of a hot Christian dude. That's in the Bible. :p

Articulate_Ape
04-23-2010, 12:47 AM
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3663/19957500sq8234763.gif

wilbur
04-23-2010, 01:13 AM
Why do we seem to want people with religious or moral standards to fall short of them?


As for religious standards... well, so many of them are completely arbitrary, and many even stand totally contrary to human well-being. Once one realizes that nobody is actually following any god's instructions, but the instructions of comparatively ignorant, ancient, primitive tribal brutes, it can be hard to find good justifications for many of their moral dictates, which were once taken for granted. It should be obvious why its not sensible to consider their opinions as the last and final word on moral propriety. And that's a good thing. A damn good thing. When one falls short of those moral standards, especially in a spectacular way, it often serves as a great testament to the wrong-headedness and impracticality of some of those "moral" standards. So it should be celebrated - every time a mega preacher "accidentally" has gay sex with a hooker while on crystal meth, its a good day for society.

As for moral standards in general, I don't think its a foregone conclusion that we revel in moral depravity. Sure, it gets our attention - but I sure didn't see people tripping over themselves to forgive Tiger Woods' behaviour, or Jesse James', or Michael Vick. Countless others suffer the same kind of societal condemnation.

CueSi
04-23-2010, 01:45 AM
Oh, you wouldn't be the first to find redemption/new work in the arms of a hot Christian dude. That's in the Bible. :p

My name ain't Rahab or Tamar tho!

~QC

CueSi
04-23-2010, 01:50 AM
As for religious standards... well, so many of them are completely arbitrary, and many even stand totally contrary to human well-being. Once one realizes that nobody is actually following any god's instructions, but the instructions of comparatively ignorant, ancient, primitive tribal brutes, it can be hard to find good justifications for many of their moral dictates, which were once taken for granted. It should be obvious why its not sensible to consider their opinions as the last and final word on moral propriety. And that's a good thing. A damn good thing. When one falls short of those moral standards, especially in a spectacular way, it often serves as a great testament to the wrong-headedness and impracticality of some of those "moral" standards. So it should be celebrated - every time a mega preacher "accidentally" has gay sex with a hooker while on crystal meth, its a good day for society.

As for moral standards in general, I don't think its a foregone conclusion that we revel in moral depravity. Sure, it gets our attention - but I sure didn't see people tripping over themselves to forgive Tiger Woods' behaviour, or Jesse James', or Michael Vick. Countless others suffer the same kind of societal condemnation.

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/Shelton_C20070904.jpg

So it's like this... at first you don't succeed, set the bar lower?

I'm a STRIPPER, and I ain't buying what you're selling.

~QC

wilbur
04-23-2010, 02:05 AM
So it's like this... at first you don't succeed, set the bar lower?


I didnt say anything like that.

Speedy
04-23-2010, 03:17 AM
As for moral standards in general, I don't think its a foregone conclusion that we revel in moral depravity. Sure, it gets our attention - but I sure didn't see people tripping over themselves to forgive Tiger Woods' behaviour, or Jesse James', or Michael Vick. Countless others suffer the same kind of societal condemnation.

Why should Tiger Woods be forgiven? Or Jesse James? Those guys have not admitted to any wrong doing. There should be personal attonement first, then forgiveness.

For the last few years I have been watching the fall from grace to rock bottom of one of my favorite actors. The guy has gone from winning awards to practically homeless. Though I have never even tried drugs or alcohol, I could identify with him on several levels. I knew he was a wreck but I had no idea how bad off he was until I saw him on Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew. It was his 9th stint in rehab. He kept going off and out of rehab several times and they kept dragging him back but unlike other times when he would go on a binge, everytime they brought him back he tested clean.

His struggle to rehabilitate himself was out there before cameras for the world to see and you could see that even though it was a road filled with anguish, he truly wanted to be clean. Tom Sizemore has been making the rounds on the talk show and is very happy with his sobriety. You see this kind of atonement from someone, you forgive them.

CueSi
04-23-2010, 04:25 AM
I didnt say anything like that.

Actually, you said worse (I was trying to be kind, really) . . to wit,


A damn good thing. When one falls short of those moral standards, especially in a spectacular way, it often serves as a great testament to the wrong-headedness and impracticality of some of those "moral" standards. So it should be celebrated - every time a mega preacher "accidentally" has gay sex with a hooker while on crystal meth, its a good day for society.

Yeah, someone using drugs, furthering a currently criminal enterprise and fucking up their lives?

AWESOME!! (especially because he's a preacher!) Like I said to Ginger, wilbur - - I'm a stripper. Ugh.

Christ, you fundie atheists really make me want to join a convent or pipe Billy Graham sermons in to Gtmo.

Bleh.

~QC

Gingersnap
04-23-2010, 10:02 AM
I think wilbur has exactly demonstrated my point here but I'm still trying to understand why people like him are so happy to see others fall. From his post, I've gleaned two possible reasons:

The moral standards others chose to adopt are wrongheaded, or

The moral standards others chose to adopt are impractical.

Obviously, this would seem to apply to any moral standards which have been in existence longer than a few years. Any moral standard has been championed by ignorant, primitive tribal brutes somewhere and that would include women's rights, racial equality, the protection of the weak, or dealing fairly with members outside your own primitive, brutish group.

I still don't get it. I have absolutely no interest in Buddhism, for instance, but I wouldn't want to see the Dalai Lama caught up in some sordid financial scandal or find out that he's secretly been shooting heroin for the past 20 years.

Lager
04-23-2010, 10:14 AM
Why do we seem to want people with religious or moral standards to fall short of them? Elites delighting in hypocrisy is nothing new but over the past half century it seems as though everybody wants everybody else to stumble. Why is this? :confused:

FGF Books (http://www.fgfbooks.com/Sobran-Joe/2010/Sobran100407.html)

I Remember back in my public school days. The majority of kids seemed to delight when the "goody two-shoes" had their halos dented or tarnished. I really believe our society is becoming more adolescent,
It's easier to tear down or discredit the standards then to meet or aspire to them. I see this in all apects of society, but stronger and more prevalent on the left. The most visible aspect of it is in their concerted effort to maginalize and stigmatize religious beliefs.

FlaGator
04-23-2010, 10:20 AM
It's funny you mention him. I have zero interest in sports but the treatment this guy has gotten in the press caught my attention.

He apparently doesn't bang random cheerleaders while sucking up sponsor-potential liquor. He seems to take his Christian walk seriously (something we would applaud if he was Muslim or Buddhist). He also seems to be able to have meaningful life apart from sports.

Pussy winger Jesus boy. :rolleyes:

I think that people like Tim Tebow serve as a mirror of sorts to some people and they don't like what they see. Since it's easier to bring him down than it is to raise ourselves up people will tend to take the easier road. Mother Theresa, by her giving of herself, reminds us of how little we do by comparison to assist others. The response to throw a negative light on what she has done so that people can feel a little be better about themselves.

I believe that a lot of this is below the awareness radar of people. I know it is below mine. I find myself putting someone down and they are either behaving as I should behave or getting away with behavior that I can't get away with. Sometimes the sword cuts both ways.

FlaGator
04-23-2010, 10:22 AM
As for religious standards... well, so many of them are completely arbitrary, and many even stand totally contrary to human well-being. Once one realizes that nobody is actually following any god's instructions, but the instructions of comparatively ignorant, ancient, primitive tribal brutes, it can be hard to find good justifications for many of their moral dictates, which were once taken for granted. It should be obvious why its not sensible to consider their opinions as the last and final word on moral propriety. And that's a good thing. A damn good thing. When one falls short of those moral standards, especially in a spectacular way, it often serves as a great testament to the wrong-headedness and impracticality of some of those "moral" standards. So it should be celebrated - every time a mega preacher "accidentally" has gay sex with a hooker while on crystal meth, its a good day for society.

As for moral standards in general, I don't think its a foregone conclusion that we revel in moral depravity. Sure, it gets our attention - but I sure didn't see people tripping over themselves to forgive Tiger Woods' behaviour, or Jesse James', or Michael Vick. Countless others suffer the same kind of societal condemnation.

What religious standards (Christian) are arbitrary?

AmPat
04-23-2010, 10:23 AM
Wilbur is the poster child for depravity. He can't measure up to decent standards so he attacks them at every opportunity. I believe he somehow thinks he gets a pass from the God he claims to not believe in if he can show that he isn't any worse than Christians.

Sorry Wilbur, works good or bad misses the mark (in your case WIDE LEFT).

FlaGator
04-23-2010, 10:30 AM
Wilbur is the poster child for depravity. He can't measure up to decent standards so he attacks them at every opportunity. I believe he somehow thinks he gets a pass from the God he claims to not believe in if he can show that he isn't any worse than Christians.

Sorry Wilbur, works good or bad misses the mark (in your case WIDE LEFT).

Which causes wilbur to misunderstand the whole point of the cross. When you can lower your behavioral standards to a set of personal expectations that are relative mainly to the individual's welfare and are easy to live up to you tend to find fault with those who expect more of themselves than they may be capable of living up to. It highlights how lacking his moral standards are.

AmPat
04-23-2010, 10:44 AM
Agreed. Wilbur takes the lazy way out. easier to mock and ridicule than to understand the target of his vehemence. His laziness will sadly cost him his soul. Unlike Wilbur, I take no personal joy in his failures.

wilbur
04-23-2010, 12:18 PM
I think wilbur has exactly demonstrated my point here but I'm still trying to understand why people like him are so happy to see others fall. From his post, I've gleaned two possible reasons:


I should refine my words, to make it clear that I don't delight in human suffering, even when its self-inflicted by an obvious hypocrite (though, there is always a sort of visceral feeling of contentment, when you see someone get what they ought to have coming to them).

But I do enjoy watching an opposing ideology crash and burn - and I know everyone here can empathize with that. The fact that our ideological targets differ, shouldn't really matter.

Just think of how you feel when Al Gore takes a carbon spewing luxury jet jet across country to speak about conservation. Or think about how you would feel if you caught a militant PETA leader with a fridge full of beef. I hardly think it would be fair to suggest, that should you find yourself even slightly amused by such scenarios, that its out of moral or ideological 'envy'. Far from being envious, you actually probably disagree with such ideologies - so it offers you some vindication for your own, when you see them fail.

Think on that, and I think you'll truly understand how others of us feel when a militant gay rights opponent, gets caught polishing some pole in a public restroom, or a mega preacher gets caught having affairs, etc.



I still don't get it. I have absolutely no interest in Buddhism, for instance, but I wouldn't want to see the Dalai Lama caught up in some sordid financial scandal or find out that he's secretly been shooting heroin for the past 20 years.

I have zero interest in that either; Buddhism isn't relevant to my life in the slightest. Even culturally, its not relevant here.

AmPat
04-23-2010, 12:43 PM
... (though, there is always a sort of visceral feeling of contentment, when you see someone get what they ought to have coming to them).
....Like say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

An Atheist burning in Hell?;)

Gingersnap
04-23-2010, 12:48 PM
I disagree with such ideologies - so it offers you some vindication for your own, when you see them fail.

Think on that, and I think you'll truly understand how others of us feel when a militant gay rights opponent, gets caught polishing some pole in a public restroom, or a mega preacher gets caught having affairs, etc.


Well, I would prefer that Al Gore move into a small apartment and start riding a bike if he's going to attempt to convince people of his views. But Gore and "mega-preachers" and celebrities are all public people. My original question was less about our fascination with public failures as a result of hypocrisy and more about our childish reaction when ordinary people even attempt to meet a moral standard, let alone occasionally fail in the trying.

wilbur
04-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Like say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

An Atheist burning in Hell?;)

Actually, if it would make you content to know that others - even really bad people - are suffering infinite agony, I would say that makes you a pretty sick bastard, and even someone like Ted Bundy might just be your moral superior.

AmPat
04-23-2010, 12:55 PM
Actually, if it would make you content to know that others - even really bad people - are suffering infinite agony, I would say that makes you a pretty sick bastard, and even someone like Ted Bundy might just be your moral superior.

Your words fool, not mine.:rolleyes:

wilbur
04-23-2010, 01:01 PM
Your words fool, not mine.:rolleyes:

No, it really wasn't any word of mine, that suggested that knowing that some people are tormented forever, would bring any sort of visceral pleasure. That was all you buddy.

Thinking deeper on it for a second, I think the sort of "good feeling" one might get, when one sees a wrongdoer harmed, comes from a wish or desire that they understand the suffering they may cause by their actions. Perhaps there is even a hope that they will be rehabilitated, in a way. So in that sense, one wouldn't wish that the suffering that the wrongdoer experiences to be unduly disproportionate - and certainly not infinite - just enough to get the message across. Beyond that, one is just taking pleasure in torture.

FlaGator
04-23-2010, 01:03 PM
Well, I would prefer that Al Gore move into a small apartment and start riding a bike if he's going to attempt to convince people of his views. But Gore and "mega-preachers" and celebrities are all public people. My original question was less about our fascination with public failures as a result of hypocrisy and more about our childish reaction when ordinary people even attempt to meet a moral standard, let alone occasionally fail in the trying.

I enjoy having a standard that I can not live up to. It keeps me striving to do better. I remember a saying (but not who said it), "If I reach for perfection I will achieve improvement. If I strive for improvement my results will be failure."

Gingersnap
04-23-2010, 01:05 PM
I enjoy having a standard that I can not live up to. It keeps me striving to do better. I remember a saying (but not who said it), "If I reach for perfection I will achieve improvement. If I strive for improvement my results will be failure."

Wow - I'm going to remember that one. :)

AmPat
04-23-2010, 01:09 PM
No, it really wasn't any word of mine, that suggested that knowing that some people are tormented forever, would bring any sort of visceral pleasure. That was all you buddy.

Thinking deeper on it for a second, I think the sort of "good feeling" one might get, when one sees a wrongdoer harmed, comes from a wish or desire that they understand the suffering they may cause by their actions. Perhaps there is even a hope that they will be rehabilitated, in a way. So in that sense, one wouldn't wish that the suffering that the wrongdoer experiences to be unduly disproportionate - and certainly not infinite - just enough to get the message across. Beyond that, one is just taking pleasure in torture.

Oh? My bad I thought this was you:

[QUOTE=wilbur;263538]I should refine my words, to make it clear that I don't delight in human suffering, even when its self-inflicted by an obvious hypocrite (though, there is always a sort of visceral feeling of contentment, when you see someone get what they ought to have coming to them). But I do enjoy watching an opposing ideology crash and burn - and I know everyone here can empathize with that. The fact that our ideological targets differ, shouldn't really matter. :rolleyes:

AmPat
04-23-2010, 01:13 PM
I enjoy having a standard that I can not live up to. It keeps me striving to do better. I remember a saying (but not who said it), "If I reach for perfection I will achieve improvement. If I strive for improvement my results will be failure."

The Airforce had a slogan that said "aim high." Liberal Atheists (like Wilbur) usually set the bar low or have no standards of moral discipline at all. That makes it really easy for them to sit back in their own cess pool of depravity and smirk at those of us striving to live up to a higher standard. It's way easier for them to mock from the cheap seats than to attempt to be decent people.

noonwitch
04-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I enjoy having a standard that I can not live up to. It keeps me striving to do better. I remember a saying (but not who said it), "If I reach for perfection I will achieve improvement. If I strive for improvement my results will be failure."


It sounds like something CS Lewis would have said, like how he said that if your giving doesn't hurt you, you're probably not giving enough.

I'm going through a faith challenge-a good one, not a bad one. I found a church I really like, but it isn't the one I'm a member of . So far, I've avoided any conflicts because I've attended on Saturdays at the new church, and still go to my church on Sundays. It's not necessarily a liberal church, however, and I am still attached to the people, the commitment to diversity, and various other things about my current church, but I've always had some issues with some of Unity's teachings.


I suspect that one of the reasons the church I go to on Saturdays offers Saturday services is because of people with divided loyalties, like me. I'm going to check out a single's activity with them this Sunday night and see where that goes.

wilbur
04-23-2010, 01:19 PM
Oh? My bad I thought this was you:
rolleyes:

It was - nowhere in that sentence does it suggest that one should get visceral pleasure from a person suffering eternal torture, especially on account of one rather small belief, which in contrast to the whole moral character of a person, is pretty trivial and non-determinant.

That eternal torture is justified because of such a small belief (or lack of belief, as it were) is a Christian view - not an atheist one.

AmPat
04-23-2010, 01:35 PM
It was - nowhere in that sentence does it suggest that one should get visceral pleasure from a person suffering eternal torture, especially on account of one rather small belief, which in contrast to the whole moral character of a person, is pretty trivial and non-determinant.

That eternal torture is justified because of such a small belief (or lack of belief, as it were) is a Christian view - not an atheist one.

That sentence did say that you got contentment out of seing somebody get what was coming to them. Christians believe sinners get what comes to them via an eternal stay in Hell. I asked if your statement then applied to atheists. Your words, not mine. Before you get really stupid, perhaps you should read post # 25

Agreed. Wilbur takes the lazy way out. easier to mock and ridicule than to understand the target of his vehemence. His laziness will sadly cost him his soul. Unlike Wilbur, I take no personal joy in his failures.
__________________

wilbur
04-23-2010, 01:46 PM
That sentence did say that you got contentment out of seing somebody get what was coming to them. Christians believe sinners get what comes to them via an eternal stay in Hell.

Uh... I'm not a Christian, so obviously what Christians believe regarding sinners and hell is irrelevant to my view, obviously. Duh. I'm not sure why you would even suggest that it is.

I certainly do not think that 'going to hell for eternity' is what anyone deserves, and would never see myself conceding that eternal torture is the 'just fruit' of any possible misdeed here on earth.

AmPat
04-23-2010, 01:53 PM
Uh... I'm not a Christian, so obviously what Christians believe regarding sinners and hell is irrelevant to my view, obviously. Duh. I'm not sure why you would even suggest that it is.

I certainly do not think that 'going to hell for eternity' is what anyone deserves, and would never see myself conceding that eternal torture is the 'just fruit' of any possible misdeed here on earth.

I know you're not a Christian but I suggest you are a moron. You keep missing the point of your own post. Are you really that stupid? I turned your words against you. If it is ok to be content to see the failures of an opposite ideology, isn't that also ok for the opposite ideology to feel the same?

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?:rolleyes:

wilbur
04-23-2010, 02:22 PM
I know you're not a Christian but I suggest you are a moron. You keep missing the point of your own post. Are you really that stupid? I turned your words against you. If it is ok to be content to see the failures of an opposite ideology, isn't that also ok for the opposite ideology to feel the same?


Well, then your attempted riposte is even all the more confused.

I didn't really make any comment on whether it was "OK" to feel contentment after a a guilty part gets a taste of his own medicine - but merely acknowledged that its there, and seems to be a part of our make up.

Then I even explained further - and you basically ignored this bit, intent on carrying on with your silly wanna-be "gotcha":



Thinking deeper on it for a second, I think the sort of "good feeling" one might get, when one sees a wrongdoer harmed, comes from a wish or desire that they understand the suffering they may cause by their actions. Perhaps there is even a hope that they will be rehabilitated, in a way. So in that sense, one wouldn't wish that the suffering that the wrongdoer experiences to be unduly disproportionate - and certainly not infinite - just enough to get the message across. Beyond that, one is just taking pleasure in torture.


So from that, I am certainly not obliged to concede that its "OK" for a Christian to delight over the fact that atheists (or anyone for that matter) will be tormented eternally.

MrsSmith
04-23-2010, 03:55 PM
Well, then your attempted riposte is even all the more confused.


So from that, I am certainly not obliged to concede that its "OK" for a Christian to delight over the fact that atheists (or anyone for that matter) will be tormented eternally.

That's good...since we don't. We feel deep sorrow and regret for all those foolish and blind enough to spend every moment of their life rejecting eternal paradise. In fact, quite a large percentage of us are willing to be called names, disrespected, and cursed at in order to explain the things so many don't understand. Heaven is infinite, and we'd love to see everyone there. :)

AmPat
04-23-2010, 04:34 PM
Well, then your attempted riposte is even all the more confused.

I didn't really make any comment on whether it was "OK" to feel contentment after a a guilty part gets a taste of his own medicine - but merely acknowledged that its there, and seems to be a part of our make up.

Then I even explained further - and you basically ignored this bit, intent on carrying on with your silly wanna-be "gotcha":



So from that, I am certainly not obliged to concede that its "OK" for a Christian to delight over the fact that atheists (or anyone for that matter) will be tormented eternally.

And my "repost" was a simple question that your simple mind could either answer or not. They were your words Mr Reading Comprehension. You suggested it, I asked a question. YOU were the one accusing ME of desiring that. You are a LIAR and not a very good one.