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View Full Version : Is the American Dream still alive?



Rebel Yell
04-26-2010, 01:02 PM
Does working hard and doing the right thing still ensure the American Dream or is it all about who you are and who you know? How is the Dream still alive for those who are responsible and work for all they have when those who lay on their ass and make the wrong choices get all the breaks. Unwed mothers get to go to school for free, while those who don't have children they can't afford have to bust their ass and work extra jobs to pay their own way. How can you tell kids that all they have to do is work hard to be successful when they can look down the street and see how the system bends over backward for those who consistently make bad choices?

NJCardFan
04-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Does working hard and doing the right thing still ensure the American Dream or is it all about who you are and who you know? How is the Dream still alive for those who are responsible and work for all they have when those who lay on their ass and make the wrong choices get all the breaks. Unwed mothers get to go to school for free, while those who don't have children they can't afford have to bust their ass and work extra jobs to pay their own way. How can you tell kids that all they have to do is work hard to be successful when they can look down the street and see how the system bends over backward for those who consistently make bad choices?

The American Dream is still alive but it's getting harder to attain. The liberals want to punish achievement and reward stupidity and by doing so, those of us who work hard to get what we have are being raped so lazy bitches like that woman with the 15 kids who thinks someone owes her are getting a free ride.

Gingersnap
04-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Sure it is. Working hard and not gaming the system are part of a much larger set of values. There have always been frauds and whores - they just get more press today.

It's important to focus on your own achievements. The political and common criminals do have ill-gotten gains but that doesn't diminish my own success. It does make me much less willing to support political and common criminals.

Rebel Yell
04-26-2010, 03:13 PM
Sure it is. Working hard and not gaming the system are part of a much larger set of values. There have always been frauds and whores - they just get more press today.

It's important to focus on your own achievements. The political and common criminals do have ill-gotten gains but that doesn't diminish my own success. It does make me much less willing to support political and common criminals.

I'll never cheat the system. That would just make me a hypocrit. It gets really frustrating when my wife is trying to get her degree, but we fall into the crack of we can't really afford for her to take more than one class at a time and we make too much to get any assistance. It pisses her off when she sees these girls who get to go for free because they have had kids they can't take care of. She had a friend right after high school that she went to ABAC with who got free tuition and free housing because she ws a minority. Mrs. Rebel had better grades than her friend, but was having to work full time and go to school while the friend just went to class and did whatever she wanted after class. She then had the nerve to bitch about how easy white folks have it.

We try to do the right thing. We're not living above our means. We just don't make the money. Yet we see pieces of shit sit back and get a free ride for not trying to do the right thing. This is what is killing the American dream.

noonwitch
04-26-2010, 03:52 PM
I'll never cheat the system. That would just make me a hypocrit. It gets really frustrating when my wife is trying to get her degree, but we fall into the crack of we can't really afford for her to take more than one class at a time and we make too much to get any assistance. It pisses her off when she sees these girls who get to go for free because they have had kids they can't take care of. She had a friend right after high school that she went to ABAC with who got free tuition and free housing because she ws a minority. Mrs. Rebel had better grades than her friend, but was having to work full time and go to school while the friend just went to class and did whatever she wanted after class. She then had the nerve to bitch about how easy white folks have it.

We try to do the right thing. We're not living above our means. We just don't make the money. Yet we see pieces of shit sit back and get a free ride for not trying to do the right thing. This is what is killing the American dream.



Well, Mrs. Rebel will actually get her degree, whereas the other girls will likely drop off before they even come close to graduating.


If you don't already own a house, you and your wife might be eligible for low-cost married student housing. Some schools still offer that.

Rebel Yell
04-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Well, Mrs. Rebel will actually get her degree, whereas the other girls will likely drop off before they even come close to graduating.


If you don't already own a house, you and your wife might be eligible for low-cost married student housing. Some schools still offer that.

We already own ours. Thanks for the suggestion, though. I tell her the only way she won't finish is if she quits.

Elspeth
04-26-2010, 04:12 PM
She had a friend right after high school that she went to ABAC with who got free tuition and free housing because she ws a minority. Mrs. Rebel had better grades than her friend, but was having to work full time and go to school while the friend just went to class and did whatever she wanted after class. She then had the nerve to bitch about how easy white folks have it.


Do you know how fucking sick and tired I am of this????

I was accepted to an Ivy League school in the mid 80s--around the same time that Michelle Obama went to Princeton. I didn't have the money to go. Even if I had gotten a full scholarship, I couldn't have afforded the living expenses. Meanwhile, Michelle "let-me-write-my-thesis-on-why-I-hate-white-people" Obama gets to go with all kinds of help as a minority and as a "legacy"--her brother was there because he played football for Princeton.

Michelle Obama had it easier than I did. But somehow white people still "have it easier".

(And I'd love to see her SATs. Mine blow most people out of the water. No way Michelle came close to mine, especially in math. None. )

Molon Labe
04-26-2010, 04:22 PM
I'll agree with what NJCard said....
I think it's getting harder to attain for the average American. I'll go further and say it's not limited to Liberals stifling the dream, but is also influenced by the entire federal system and how it weighs down average working joes.

James Truslow actually defined the American Dream as this:


It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order, in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position - James Truslow

I don't think people are recognized based on what they are.

Rockntractor
04-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Do you know how fucking sick and tired I am of this????

I was accepted to an Ivy League school in the mid 80s--around the same time that Michelle Obama went to Princeton. I didn't have the money to go. Even if I had gotten a full scholarship, I couldn't have afforded the living expenses. Meanwhile, Michelle "let-me-write-my-thesis-on-why-I-hate-white-people" Obama gets to go with all kinds of help as a minority and as a "legacy"--her brother was there because he played football for Princeton.

Michelle Obama had it easier than I did. But somehow white people still "have it easier".

(And I'd love to see her SATs. Mine blow most people out of the water. No way Michelle came close to mine, especially in math. None. )
I sense the exact same frustration in you that I have and I'm getting tired of people saying that things will be okay. I don't see any indication that anything will be okay at the moment!

noonwitch
04-26-2010, 04:36 PM
Do you know how fucking sick and tired I am of this????

I was accepted to an Ivy League school in the mid 80s--around the same time that Michelle Obama went to Princeton. I didn't have the money to go. Even if I had gotten a full scholarship, I couldn't have afforded the living expenses. Meanwhile, Michelle "let-me-write-my-thesis-on-why-I-hate-white-people" Obama gets to go with all kinds of help as a minority and as a "legacy"--her brother was there because he played football for Princeton.

Michelle Obama had it easier than I did. But somehow white people still "have it easier".

(And I'd love to see her SATs. Mine blow most people out of the water. No way Michelle came close to mine, especially in math. None. )



Wow, I did not know that Michelle Obama wrote her thesis on why she hates white people!

Ivy league schools are over-rated. You seem to be doing well for yourself despite Michelle having it so much easier than you.

Rebel Yell
04-26-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't think she deserved that response!:confused:

It's just the frustration of the have-nots boiling over. I'm hearing more and more frustration. In spite of what the DUmmies would like to believe, the frustration isn't against the have's. It is against the handouts the work-nots are getting.

Articulate_Ape
04-26-2010, 05:02 PM
I don't think she deserved that response!:confused:

I agree.

Rockntractor
04-26-2010, 05:03 PM
It's just the frustration of the have-nots boiling over. I'm hearing more and more frustration. In spite of what the DUmmies would like to believe, the frustration isn't against the have's. It is against the handouts the work-nots are getting.

Like I said in an earlier post I am about as frustrated as Elspeth, my income is about a third of what it was. I just didn't think Noonie meant any ill will.

Elspeth
04-26-2010, 05:07 PM
I don't think she deserved that response!:confused:

She DID deserve that response. She is as heartless and condescending as every piece of shit on DU. It was meant in bad faith and made assumptions on information that she did not have, so she made prejudiced assumptions.

I know you're friends of hers, and if you want to ban me go ahead. But I am not going to let that laughing liberal supremacy stand, especially when based in ignorance. You may like her and won't challenge her answers. But I will challenge what was an insult directed to the heart of me.

Noonwitch posted with negative and insulting intent. Period.

Articulate_Ape
04-26-2010, 05:19 PM
Wow.

Speedy
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
I've got mine. I have achieved much of what I want and I do not give a fuck if someone else is starving and naked. I did not work for any of them to have one cent of what is mine. The best part is I have cashed out alot of what I have, and won't be paying into shit.

Elspeth
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
I have been told my post has been deleted. So here is the cleaned up answer so that at least the facts will be out there:

1. Michelle Obama wrote her thesis on how Princeton wasn't being good enough to black students. This "study" was based self-report surveys from Princeton grads, most of whom did not send back. It was a tiny bit of inconclusive data with a lot of personal diatribe. Go read it like I did before you comment.

2. Ivy League schools are the ones which top companies and government choose from. In no way can a degree from Harvard ever be overrated. If you're 25 and a Harvard grad, you can get a job on the NY Times or as a political appointee for some White House, regardless of party. If you're 25 and a grad from a state university, you start from the bottom. Look at all of our recent presidents: Harvard, Yale.

3. I am NOT doing well. At my best, I made 60K a year. Last year, I pulled in 25K thanks to the recession. Michelle Obama's last salary was 312K, before the 2008 campaign.

The facts need to be out there and I hope they get to stay.

Speedy
04-26-2010, 05:21 PM
The bitch has been put on ignore. She can go to hell.

Liberals love Hell. Everyone is equally miserable there.

noonwitch
04-27-2010, 10:18 AM
I have been told my post has been deleted. So here is the cleaned up answer so that at least the facts will be out there:

1. Michelle Obama wrote her thesis on how Princeton wasn't being good enough to black students. This "study" was based self-report surveys from Princeton grads, most of whom did not send back. It was a tiny bit of inconclusive data with a lot of personal diatribe. Go read it like I did before you comment.

2. Ivy League schools are the ones which top companies and government choose from. In no way can a degree from Harvard ever be overrated. If you're 25 and a Harvard grad, you can get a job on the NY Times or as a political appointee for some White House, regardless of party. If you're 25 and a grad from a state university, you start from the bottom. Look at all of our recent presidents: Harvard, Yale.

3. I am NOT doing well. At my best, I made 60K a year. Last year, I pulled in 25K thanks to the recession. Michelle Obama's last salary was 312K, before the 2008 campaign.

The facts need to be out there and I hope they get to stay.



I have no idea what your original response was, so I have no grudge. You expect a lot of yourself, obviously. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but if you are going to define success as making the kind of money that people in politics make-like the $312,000 you mentioned that Michelle Obama made in 2008, you will never be satisfied. Everyone who chose a career in the business field is suffering right now, and I'm sorry that it's hit you so hard.

I will say this-you can accuse me of injecting political statements into my post, when I was just pointing out yours. Whatever Michelle Obama's complaints about how Princeton treated black students 20 years ago, she didn't write her paper about how she hates white people. That's your interpretation of it.

I really am not a person who cares about status and money. I make enough to live off of, and I'm grateful for it. I went to a second-tier state university, and I have a job that gives me intrinsic rewards beyond financial rewards. I serve a community that the rest of the nation has written off as hopeless. But that's what heartless pieces of shit do with their lives, I guess.


Nobody should ban you for whatever it is you posted, though. My self-esteem and feelings are not crushed by online slams, or lacernut would have driven me away a long time ago. It's only people on the internet using names that they made up for themselves like the old CB radio "handles" of the 70s. It's not the real world.

linda22003
04-27-2010, 10:45 AM
I'll agree with what NJCard said....
I think it's getting harder to attain for the average American. I'll go further and say it's not limited to Liberals stifling the dream, but is also influenced by the entire federal system and how it weighs down average working joes.

James Truslow actually defined the American Dream as this:



I don't think people are recognized based on what they are.

I'm pretty sure "James Truslow" is actually "James Truslow Adams". I have his books on the Founding of New England and the Epic of America.

linda22003
04-27-2010, 10:52 AM
I2. Ivy League schools are the ones which top companies and government choose from. In no way can a degree from Harvard ever be overrated. If you're 25 and a Harvard grad, you can get a job on the NY Times or as a political appointee for some White House, regardless of party. If you're 25 and a grad from a state university, you start from the bottom. Look at all of our recent presidents: Harvard, Yale.



It depends a great deal on what the company does. My company has very few people from Harvard or Yale. It has a great many from Carnegie Mellon and Penn State, which is in fact a state university. I didn't go to an Ivy myself, but during this recession my job has stayed solid and my income has increased noticeably, along with my husband's. Everyone's situation is different, and making grand generalizations to explain your own situation is not very useful.

Gingersnap
04-27-2010, 11:08 AM
It depends a great deal on what the company does. My company has very few people from Harvard or Yale. It has a great many from Carnegie Mellon and Penn State, which is in fact a state university. I didn't go to an Ivy myself, but during this recession my job has stayed solid and my income has increased noticeably, along with my husband's. Everyone's situation is different, and making grand generalizations to explain your own situation is not very useful.

I have to agree with this. Ivy League degrees aren't really useful in technical and scientific fields unless you plan to never leave the academy.

In real life, the experience and achievements you develop in the first 10 years after graduation make all the difference in terms of career success. I don't doubt that there are law firms, banks, and print news outlets that make it easier for an Ivy League grad to enter the old boys/girls network on the coasts. It's that very network that is now under attack for being wildly arrogant, willfully blind, and destructively elitist.

Outside of those few jobs (and they are very few in a country of 300 million), the value of your school or program name drops every year until the 10 year point after which absolutely nobody cares.