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View Full Version : What should be the federal immigration policy towards illegal immigration?



Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 05:42 PM
This mess in Arizona has shown one thing for sure, the Federal Government has failed at it's job of immigration control. Reform has been needed for a long time and it hasn't been done. What do you think would be the best policy towards dealing with immigration on the Federal level?

Keeping in mind that many illegals have been here for many years, working, contributing to the economy, paying taxes, and having children (who are American Citizens) I think the following would be a good policy:


1. Impose rules on Mexico aimed at improving their working-poor class conditions. Mexicans wouldn't be flooding into America at such a high rate if they didn't feel an urgent need to. Mexico is a fairly rich nation, newly industrialized, and is only emerging faster as a new world power. However, they have enormous inequality that results in large populations of people living in poverty. The United States should pressure the government to do whatever it needs to do to reduce this dramatic inequality.

It's a supply and demand issue of desire. America offers something that the poor Mexicans desire so much they are willing to go to extremes to get it. If the problem is that America doesn't have enough supply for all of the poor people of Mexico, then we should reduce the demand by strongly encouraging them to increase their own domestic conditions.

2. Funding and reforming the current immigration system. It needs to be faster, smarter, and more efficient. The reason people break into this country illegally rather than legally (which is so much more beneficial and less dangerous/risky) is because the legal route can often be prohibitively excessive in time and red tape. Thousands of people die in awful scenarios in their attempts to get here, only to come to conditions that most of us would consider inhumane. It seems irrational but people who are so willing to pursue their goal of simply doing whatever job is necessary for a little bit of money are perfect workers. This is precisely another reason why immigration reform is never done. It helps business because they are cheap unregulated labor. Make it easier to be a citizen, and they'll take the legal route.

3. For the illegals who are already here:
a. Make them pay a fine, a large fine at that. They broke the law.
b. Place them in the back of the line for citizenship, they can become citizens and get the full benefits of citizenship (voting, services, health care, immigration and travel benefits) but no sooner than anyone who is taking the legal route.
c. Require an English test. Part of the issue isn't just legal or economic, but cultural. They are free to keep and celebrate their culture but to ease their assimilation process they should be able to communicate fluently with American english speakers. I am reluctant to anything that amounts to an "official language" but I do recognize how strong cultural divisions can be detrimental to a cohesive society.


I sure hope this is something that could be agreed on.

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 05:43 PM
I'll go ahead and call myself out for the redundant title so none of you clever grammar nazis post about it a dozen times.

BadCat
04-28-2010, 05:50 PM
Wow, I agree with the fucktard for once...almost...


3. For the illegals who are already here:
a. Make them pay a fine, a large fine at that. They broke the law.
b. Place them in the back of the line for citizenship, they can become citizens and get the full benefits of citizenship (voting, services, health care, immigration and travel benefits) but no sooner than anyone who is taking the legal route.
c. Require an English test. Part of the issue isn't just legal or economic, but cultural. They are free to keep and celebrate their culture but to ease their assimilation process they should be able to communicate fluently with American english speakers. I am reluctant to anything that amounts to an "official language" but I do recognize how strong cultural divisions can be detrimental to a cohesive society.


You forgot this part.

d. Make it a felony to be in the US illegally.
e. Any person caught in the US illegally will be sentenced to a minimum of two years in prison.
f. Upon completion of sentence, person is deported to their shithole of origin.

Articulate_Ape
04-28-2010, 06:01 PM
We could start by actually enforcing the laws already on the books (how novel) and go from there.





Illegal Immigration Laws

Most Americans know our basic laws regarding illegal immigration. It is illegal to enter the United States without permission. The first time an illegal immigrant is caught in the US it is a misdemeanor civil offense. This is because we want to be able to quickly return illegal aliens to Mexico or Canada, when they are caught at the border without the rigors of a jury trial.

After the first offense, being caught a second time is a felony!

It is also against the law to overstay a visa issued by the US Government and illegal for an employer to knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

Our volunteers have compiled this list of illegal immigration laws for your review.

It is Illegal To Bring Illegal Aliens Into US under current Laws
It is unlawful for any person to bring aliens into the United States. Fine: $3,000 for each alien (Sec. 273. [8 U.S.C. 1323])


It is Illegal To Harbor Illegal Immigrants
. It is unlawful to bring in or harbor illegal aliens. Fine: $3,000 for each alien. (Sec. 273. [8 U.S.C. 1323] )


It is Illegal To Employ, Recruit, or Refer Illegal Aliens for Jobs
. It is unlawful for a person or other entity- to employ or recruit or refer for a fee an illegal alien in the United States. Commercial advantage or private financial gain offender can be fined under title 18, US code, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. ...Any person who, during any 12-month period, knowingly hires for employment at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that the individuals are aliens described in sub paragraph (B) shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both. (Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a] )


It is Illegal To Forge Documents for Illegal Immigrants or violate Identity Theft Laws
. It is unlawful for any person or entity knowingly- to forge documents. Legal documents must be presented when entering the US.
( Sec. 274C. [8 U.S.C. 1324c] )
...Fine: not less than $250 and not more than $2,000 for each document that is the subject of a violation.
...Previous violation: not less than $2,000 and not more than $5,000 for each document that is the subject of a violation.


US Laws Declare it is Illegal To Aid or Abet Illegal Immigrants
. It is unlawful for anyone to aid or assist aliens to enter the United States. Penalty: fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. ( Sec. 277. [8 U.S.C. 1327] )


LEGAL Immigrants Must Know English, US History, US Laws, and Principles
. No person shall be naturalized as a citizen of the United States who cannot demonstrate: ... An understanding of the English language, including the ability to read, write and and speak words in ordinary usage in the English language.
... A knowledge and understanding of history, and of the principles and form of government, of the United States. ( Sec. 312. [8 U.S.C. 1423] )


Legal Immigrants Must Display Moral Character and No Crime Record
. Requirements as to residence, good moral character, attachment to the principles of the constitution, and favorable disposition to the Untied States. ( Sec. 316. [8 U.S.C. 1427] )


Legal Immigrants Must Be Investigated and Screened for past crimes and terrorism links
. Prior to a person becoming naturalized, or an employee of the service, a personal investigation is required of the individual applying.
( Sec. 335. [8 U.S.C. 1446] )


It is Illegal For Illegal Aliens to Bypass Medical and Physical Exams for illnesses and infectious diseases
. Physical and Mental Examinations are required.
Aliens arriving at ports of the United States will be detained for the purpose of determining whether they are afflicted with any of the diseases or mental or physical defects or disabilities set forth in section 212(a), or whenever the Attorney General has received information showing that any aliens are coming from a country or have embarked at a place where any of such diseases are prevalent or epidemic.
( Sec. 232 [8 U.S.C. 1252] )


Illegal Aliens Deported are ineligible for readmission to US Under Current Laws
. Distressed Aliens:
Any alien who falls into distress or who needs public aid from causes arising prior to his/her entry is desirous of being so removed. Any alien so removed shall be ineligible to apply for or receive a visa or other documentation for readmission, or to apply for admission to the United States except with the prior approval of the Attorney General.
( Sec. 250. [8 U.S.C. 1260] )


It is Illegal for Illegal Immigrants to possess a firearm or ammunition
. It is unlawful for an alien illegally in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a non immigrant visa to legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition. ( [18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 478.32] )


From here (http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Illegal_Immigration_Laws/index.shtml).

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 07:03 PM
Wow, I agree with the fucktard for once...almost...



You forgot this part.

d. Make it a felony to be in the US illegally.
e. Any person caught in the US illegally will be sentenced to a minimum of two years in prison.
f. Upon completion of sentence, person is deported to their shithole of origin.

Many of these people have kids. Have them pay a fine,they already do work and pay taxes, punish them financially. If we throw these parents in prison and deport them we are only going to have an entire population of American Citizens (their children) who are living in broken homes, and we know that enormous rates of of broken homes can have huge societal problems when these children get older.

We can't destroy families, destabilize communities, and not expect to see the consequences of it later, just for revenge. We can punish them with fines or probationary periods for access to certain privileges but what you are advocating does more harm than good, especially because of their children.

djones520
04-28-2010, 07:06 PM
Many of these people have kids. Have them pay a fine,they already do work and pay taxes, punish them financially. If we throw these parents in prison and deport them we are only going to have an entire population of American Citizens (their children) who are living in broken homes, and we know that enormous rates of of broken homes can have huge societal problems when these children get older.

We can't destroy families, destabilize communities, and not expect to see the consequences of it later, just for revenge. We can punish them with fines or probationary periods for access to certain privileges but what you are advocating does more harm than good, especially because of their children.

So do many other felons. Should we give out a free pass to everyone who commits a crime just because they have kids?

lacarnut
04-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Many of these people have kids. Have them pay a fine,they already do work and pay taxes, punish them financially. If we throw these parents in prison and deport them we are only going to have an entire population of American Citizens (their children) who are living in broken homes, and we know that enormous rates of of broken homes can have huge societal problems when these children get older.

We can't destroy families, destabilize communities, and not expect to see the consequences of it later, just for revenge. We can punish them with fines or probationary periods for access to certain privileges but what you are advocating does more harm than good, especially because of their children.

Question for oh brite one: What would happen if an American was illegally in a country like Mexico or South America? Answer, they would be deported, pronto. All this other bullshit about children and broken homes would NOT even enter into their decision.

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 07:59 PM
So do many other felons. Should we give out a free pass to everyone who commits a crime just because they have kids?

1. Depends on the crime.
2. No one said "free pass", just not imprisonment+deportation simply for being here and working. Quite a jump you're making there.

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 08:00 PM
Question for oh brite one: What would happen if an American was illegally in a country like Mexico or South America? Answer, they would be deported, pronto. All this other bullshit about children and broken homes would NOT even enter into their decision.

If we're accepting policy positions from foreign countries now, can I suggest a few from the far more advanced European nations?

Rockntractor
04-28-2010, 08:02 PM
If we're accepting policy positions from foreign countries now, can I suggest a few from the far more advanced European nations?

Why don't you just move to one of those far more advanced European nations?:rolleyes:

Lager
04-28-2010, 08:08 PM
1. Impose rules on Mexico aimed at improving their working-poor class conditions. Mexicans wouldn't be flooding into America at such a high rate if they didn't feel an urgent need to. Mexico is a fairly rich nation, newly industrialized, and is only emerging faster as a new world power. However, they have enormous inequality that results in large populations of people living in poverty. The United States should pressure the government to do whatever it needs to do to reduce this dramatic inequality.



What rules can we impose on a sovereign nation to force them to improve their domestic situation? We can't even agree to impose rules on Iran to limit their nuclear weapons development. I agree Mexico bears a big responsibility for the exodus of its citizens. It's ridiculous that they criticize us, when they have open warfare in their own cities because of out of control drug cartels.

Rockntractor
04-28-2010, 08:13 PM
I suspect congress will force open borders on us just like they forced health care.
All he problems Mexico is having will soon be here.:mad:

Articulate_Ape
04-28-2010, 08:17 PM
Why don't you just move to one of those far more advanced European nations?:rolleyes:

He probably would, but their economic system(s) are collapsing into chaos. WWW probably doesn't want to rush onto himself what he advocates for America.

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 08:25 PM
What rules can we impose on a sovereign nation to force them to improve their domestic situation? We can't even agree to impose rules on Iran to limit their nuclear weapons development. I agree Mexico bears a big responsibility for the exodus of its citizens. It's ridiculous that they criticize us, when they have open warfare in their own cities because of out of control drug cartels.

The United States and Mexico have a far closer and mutually interested relationship, they are one of our largest trade partners with Canada and China, there's plenty we could do.

And we do bear part of the responsibility for the drug cartels, our failed drug policy has done nothing to reduce our demand for drugs, and everything to push the drug market to these cartels. Marijuana for example brings in around $8.6 Billion for drug cartels, and cocaine, in 2nd place brings in $3.9 Billion.

Wei Wu Wei
04-28-2010, 08:29 PM
Why don't you just move to one of those far more advanced European nations?:rolleyes:

Why don't the Tea Party move to Mexico? They have a very limited government and lower taxes :cool:

Rockntractor
04-28-2010, 08:33 PM
Why don't the Tea Party move to Mexico? They have a very limited government and lower taxes :cool:

Thats a lie! They have a socialist government.

Articulate_Ape
04-28-2010, 08:34 PM
Why don't the Tea Party move to Mexico? They have a very limited government and lower taxes :cool:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/JamesSavant/WOWIDEAS.jpg

Lager
04-28-2010, 08:42 PM
The United States and Mexico have a far closer and mutually interested relationship, they are one of our largest trade partners with Canada and China, there's plenty we could do.



Okay, here's an idea, let's encourage companies to move to Mexico, where the labor cost is cheaper, and lower barriers to trade with them. The increased job opportunities and higher exports will definitely improve the domestic conditions there. Oh...wait, we tried that with NAFTA, and the dems were against that. They don't like it when companies outsource jobs to Mexicans in Mexico, but they don't mind as much when their workers come here and take American jobs.

Gingersnap
04-28-2010, 08:43 PM
Before we start figuring out the details, we need to make a very sober evaluation of the problem.

Both sides insist on framing this issue as though it's 1880. The pro-illegal immigrant side point out that these people just want to work and do better for themselves and their families (i.e., the American Dream). The anti-illegal immigrant side wants them to abide by the current immigration laws and get in line.

They're both wrong.

We are a country of over 300 million and we've been having critical problems finding work for the large number of low skill/no skill functional illiterates we produce in-house. We are a service sector and knowledge economy at the moment (we can debate whether that's a particularly smart move elsewhere). We do not have millions of acres of potentially arable land that needs farmers. We don't have hundreds or thousands of idle factories, shipyards, mines, or mills. Every economic downturn we've had since WWII has resulted in more efficiency, more productivity, and fewer low skill jobs.

We have huge number of able-bodied young men and women who aren't cut out for the cube farm or customer service who can't get jobs.

Before we think about shoehorning in 15 or 20 million more people, I'd like us to have a conversation as a nation about how we "incentivize" the currently jobless. Not the people who have lost "good" jobs but have taken "average" jobs as a result of the recession - I mean the chronically unemployed.

Rockntractor
04-28-2010, 08:44 PM
Okay, here's an idea, let's encourage companies to move to Mexico, where the labor cost is cheaper, and lower barriers to trade with them. The increased job opportunities and higher exports will definitely improve the domestic conditions there. Oh...wait, we tried that with NAFTA, and the dems were against that. They don't like it when companies outsource jobs to Mexicans in Mexico, but they don't mind as much when their workers come here and take American jobs.
Actually Mexico outsourced the work to China and ended up in the same predicament.

AmPat
04-29-2010, 12:30 AM
Illegal kind of sums it up.
1. Fine for tax evasion and cost of prosecution
2. Jail, maximum for breaking the immigration laws and tax evasion, until the cost is paid in full. Plus all the taxpayer cost that they sucked up while here illegally.
3. Deport
4. Back of the legal immigration line.

Another thing. NO SUCH THING AS ANCHOR BABIES. The babies born to illegals are subject to the country of their parents. They are NOT automatically US citizens and should have never been.

Sonnabend
04-29-2010, 04:13 AM
What should be done?

Walls.

Landmines.

Gun towers.

Arrest and imprison anyone harbouring illegals.

Take the coyotes and execute five publically. Add a message "You are next"

Any and all illegals sent back across the desert, immediate deportation.

Sonnabend
04-29-2010, 04:14 AM
Mirror image these laws. Apply their own standards and see how they like it.


"Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of
contributing to national progress." (Article 32) Immigration officials must 'ensure' that 'immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance' and for their dependents. (Article 34)
Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets 'the equilibrium of the national demographics,' when foreigners are deemed detrimental to 'economic or national interests,' when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and
when 'they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.' (Article 37) The Secretary of Governance may 'suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest.' (Article 38)
Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
A National Population Registry keeps track of 'every single individual who comprises the population of the country,' and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91). Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
Foreigners who sign government documents 'with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses' are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116) Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico - such as working with out a permit - can also be imprisoned.
Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally. (Article 123)
Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
Foreigners who 'attempt against national sovereignty or security' will be deported. (Article 126)
Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law.
A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)"

noonwitch
04-29-2010, 09:18 AM
Question for oh brite one: What would happen if an American was illegally in a country like Mexico or South America? Answer, they would be deported, pronto. All this other bullshit about children and broken homes would NOT even enter into their decision.



American men would probably get the shit kicked out of them by the police in whatever South or Central American hellhole we're talking about, prior to deportation, though.

Rebel Yell
04-29-2010, 03:37 PM
Many of these people have kids. Have them pay a fine,they already do work and pay taxes, punish them financially. If we throw these parents in prison and deport them we are only going to have an entire population of American Citizens (their children) who are living in broken homes, and we know that enormous rates of of broken homes can have huge societal problems when these children get older.

We can't destroy families, destabilize communities, and not expect to see the consequences of it later, just for revenge. We can punish them with fines or probationary periods for access to certain privileges but what you are advocating does more harm than good, especially because of their children.

Mr. Smith is a hard working family man with teo who just happens to steal from one of his employers. The compay decides to press charges. Should we just make Mr. Smith pay a fine, since he has kids and works?

Big Guy
04-29-2010, 08:35 PM
If we're accepting policy positions from foreign countries now, can I suggest a few from the far more advanced European nations?

Far more advanced European Nations? I'll give you an example of one of your so called more advanced European Nations.

My wife was born and raised in Germany, that makes her a citizen of Germany right? No not even close, her Parents were from Poland, captured by the Nazi's and brought to a munitions plant near Stuttgart as SLAVE LABOR. I married her and brought her to the U.S. with a green card (Legally) when she tried to return to Germany to visit her family she was denied re-entry because her German passport had been revoked because she was not a citizen of Germany. They claimed she was a Polish citizen, Poland said she was not (She has never been to Poland). This made her stateless. Fortunately I was in the Army and was able to get her an "Expeditious Naturalization", she is now a Citizen of the U.S. and has her passport.

More advanced, get friggin real. Wee Wee you need to get rid of your theory's and experience a little more life.

Rockntractor
04-29-2010, 08:48 PM
Far more advanced European Nations? I'll give you an example of one of your so called more advanced European Nations.

My wife was born and raised in Germany, that makes her a citizen of Germany right? No not even close, her Parents were from Poland, captured by the Nazi's and brought to a munitions plant near Stuttgart as SLAVE LABOR. I married her and brought her to the U.S. with a green card (Legally) when she tried to return to Germany to visit her family she was denied re-entry because her German passport had been revoked because she was not a citizen of Germany. They claimed she was a Polish citizen, Poland said she was not (She has never been to Poland). This made her stateless. Fortunately I was in the Army and was able to get her an "Expeditious Naturalization", she is now a Citizen of the U.S. and has her passport.

More advanced, get friggin real. Wee Wee you need to get rid of your theory's and experience a little more life.
What do you expect from an ACORN!

Big Guy
04-29-2010, 08:54 PM
What do you expect from an ACORN!

I don't expect much more than the B.S. he/she/it shells out.

Kay
04-29-2010, 11:22 PM
What should be the federal immigration policy towards illegal immigration?

When one is caught, cut off an ear and deport immediatly.
If one gets caught that only has one ear, shoot on sight.

Articulate_Ape
04-29-2010, 11:26 PM
What should be the federal immigration policy towards illegal immigration?

When one is caught, cut off an ear and deport immediatly.
If one gets caught that only has one ear, shoot on sight.

Damn! Someone has PMS.

AmPat
04-30-2010, 01:12 AM
Damn! Someone has PMS.

I like the Kay more everyday.

creepingdeath
05-01-2010, 12:51 PM
90 day warning to get out, or end up at the wrong end of the legal system. Anyone remaining may be jailed, and refused any legal method of immigration.

We can determine the amount of extra workers we will need, and permit this many, and this many only. Same policies as everyone else uses when immigrating legally, proof of work, proof of the ability to support any dependents, or a sponsor.

On the borders. Light them up whatever it takes. Predators, barbed wires, landmines, whatever. Certain death is a pretty good disincentive to those seeking a better life.

We have room for people willing to come, work hard, raise families, and add to the nation. It's how we got going. We dont have room for people that sneak in, and suck off the tit. Well, maybe a little room in a tent jail for a few years, then a bus ride to one of the few passable holes in the border.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 12:56 PM
Whatever happened to the values of Christianity in this nation? This is just sad.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 01:05 PM
Illegal kind of sums it up.
1. Fine for tax evasion and cost of prosecution
2. Jail, maximum for breaking the immigration laws and tax evasion, until the cost is paid in full. Plus all the taxpayer cost that they sucked up while here illegally.
3. Deport
4. Back of the legal immigration line.

They have children. People love to start fires then they bitch and moan when their house burns down. You want to break up millions of families, and have their children grow up in broken homes with a disdain for our government? Break apart families just for revenge? That's going to turn out really great in a decade or two when these children grow up to be unstable and anti-social adults.

Everyone here seems to think that a tax on a corporation is a "punishment" but a FINE imposed on a person isn't? Oh please, this isn't about punishment, this is about people just wanting to hurt other people.

Most of these illegals commit no violence, no theft (by legal standards), or any real dangerous offense. The only crime they've committed is crossing the border illegally and working illegally. The only justification for that being punishable with prison time is xenophobia.

As for taxes? They PAY taxes every time they purchase anything. They pay a lot of taxes at that and they never get a dime back in tax returns or benefits that citizens get.


Another thing. NO SUCH THING AS ANCHOR BABIES. The babies born to illegals are subject to the country of their parents. They are NOT automatically US citizens and should have never been.

Ever heard of a thing called the Constitution? They ARE automatically US citizens, it's called the 14th amendment.

You guys just looooooove to bring up the constitution every chance you get, but I guess it doesn't count if the person is a different color?

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 01:10 PM
They have children. People love to start fires then they bitch and moan when their house burns down. You want to break up millions of families, and have their children grow up in broken homes with a disdain for our government? Break apart families just for revenge? That's going to turn out really great in a decade or two when these children grow up to be unstable and anti-social adults.

Everyone here seems to think that a tax on a corporation is a "punishment" but a FINE imposed on a person isn't? Oh please, this isn't about punishment, this is about people just wanting to hurt other people.

Most of these illegals commit no violence, no theft (by legal standards), or any real dangerous offense. The only crime they've committed is crossing the border illegally and working illegally. The only justification for that being punishable with prison time is xenophobia.

As for taxes? They PAY taxes every time they purchase anything. They pay a lot of taxes at that and they never get a dime back in tax returns or benefits that citizens get.



Ever heard of a thing called the Constitution? They ARE automatically US citizens, it's called the 14th amendment.

You guys just looooooove to bring up the constitution every chance you get, but I guess it doesn't count if the person is a different color?

Shut up weeble! Go down to the gulf and suck oil, you and Wilbur could suck that mess up in no time.

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 01:12 PM
Wow, I agree with the fucktard for once...almost...



You forgot this part.

d. Make it a felony to be in the US illegally.
e. Any person caught in the US illegally will be sentenced to a minimum of two years in prison.
f. Upon completion of sentence, person is deported to their shithole of origin.

I'm against jail time and against deporting them to their country of origin. 1 - jail time keeps them in housing and medical care square meals which is half the reason why most of them do it. 2 - deporting them back to where they come from is not enough of a discouragement. I say we tag em like they do birds and drop them off in Antarctica. If they manage to get back to the US - we make them citizens.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 01:19 PM
I really hope the Tea Party agrees with you guys, gets vocal, and this issue becomes a major issue this November.

Just read some of the awful hateful shit being posted here, the "right" (if that term can be used with any meaning) including the Tea Party and the Republican Party have a reputation for being racist and they've had a hard time shaking that image. We can debate whether that has any substance behind it but it IS a stereotype that many people believe.

If this issue remains on the radar come November, and the Tea Party supports the things you people are posting, then you guys are going to have a much harder time getting rid of the image of a racist, and it's not going to help in the elections.

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 01:25 PM
I really hope the Tea Party agrees with you guys, gets vocal, and this issue becomes a major issue this November.

Just read some of the awful hateful shit being posted here, the "right" (if that term can be used with any meaning) including the Tea Party and the Republican Party have a reputation for being racist and they've had a hard time shaking that image. We can debate whether that has any substance behind it but it IS a stereotype that many people believe.

If this issue remains on the radar come November, and the Tea Party supports the things you people are posting, then you guys are going to have a much harder time getting rid of the image of a racist, and it's not going to help in the elections.

Fucktard - more than 70% of Americans support coming down hard on illegals. I could care less if you and the other shitstains on the left call me a racist. You keep trying to paint this as being about race - but it's not. You seriously need to stop your racial pandering and get a clue. :rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 01:29 PM
Fucktard - more than 70% of Americans support coming down hard on illegals. I could care less if you and the other shitstains on the left call me a racist. You keep trying to paint this as being about race - but it's not. You seriously need to stop your racial pandering and get a clue. :rolleyes:

Despite your funny history of bad mistakes when it comes to links....

I wasn't saying people here ARE racist, but that there is a stereotype that the Republican party and the TEa Party are racist. I can't read their minds but that image is out there.

I know the Tea Party has tried to specify that their issue is with policies and not race, but a thread such as this one doesn't help with that image, and that image is not a good one to have in an election year.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 01:30 PM
Sensible immigration policy?

HELL NO. IMPRISON THEM AND DEPORT THEM AND MUTILATE THEM AND TREAT THEM LIKE ANIMALS AND WHEN THEIR KIDS GROW UP TO BECOME CRIMINALS WE'LL BITCH AND CRY ABOUT MINORITY CRIME RATES.

lacarnut
05-01-2010, 02:10 PM
Sensible immigration policy?

HELL NO. IMPRISON THEM AND DEPORT THEM AND MUTILATE THEM AND TREAT THEM LIKE ANIMALS AND WHEN THEIR KIDS GROW UP TO BECOME CRIMINALS WE'LL BITCH AND CRY ABOUT MINORITY CRIME RATES.

If you are in Mexico, Panama, Columbia, P.R., Costa Rica or any other country in this hemisphere ILLEGALLY, you, your wife and brood are deported. Why is that so hard for a dumb ass liberals like you to understand that fact. Plus, you are lucky if you do not spend time in prison and get a good ass whipping. Usually, a fine is in order also.

Question: why can we not treat illegals in this country like Americans are treated in other countries?????????

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 02:16 PM
If you are in Mexico, Panama, Columbia, P.R., Costa Rica or any other country in this hemisphere ILLEGALLY, you, your wife and brood are deported. Why is that so hard for a dumb ass liberals like you to understand that fact. Plus, you are lucky if you do not spend time in prison and get a good ass whipping. Usually, a fine is in order also.

If you are in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, or any other advanced nation you, your wife and brood get access to a universal health care system. They also get long paid maternity leave, higher wages, and an active pro-labor party in their respective governments.

Other countries do other things.


Question: why can we not treat illegals in this country like Americans are treated in other countries?????????

Because our constitution states that people born here are citizens and frankly when it comes to this issue we are better than they are.

Question: Why can we not treat citizens in this country like citizens in every other advanced nation are treated?????????

AmPat
05-01-2010, 06:59 PM
If you are in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, or any other advanced nation you, your wife and brood get access to a universal health care system. They also get long paid maternity leave, higher wages, and an active pro-labor party in their respective governments.

Other countries do other things.



Because our constitution states that people born here are citizens and frankly when it comes to this issue we are better than they are.

Question: Why can we not treat citizens in this country like citizens in every other advanced nation are treated?????????

Tell you what Skippy, you and your felow libertards foot the bill and I'm in.:rolleyes:

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Despite your funny history of bad mistakes when it comes to links....

I wasn't saying people here ARE racist, but that there is a stereotype that the Republican party and the TEa Party are racist. I can't read their minds but that image is out there.

I know the Tea Party has tried to specify that their issue is with policies and not race, but a thread such as this one doesn't help with that image, and that image is not a good one to have in an election year.

Bad mistakes when it comes to link??? You are a fucking idiot. :rolleyes:

You really should go a buy yourself a clue. The vast majority of Americans won't and DON'T see this as a race issue. Only the kook left win base sees the issue of illegal immigration as being racially motivated. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 07:04 PM
Sensible immigration policy?

HELL NO. IMPRISON THEM AND DEPORT THEM AND MUTILATE THEM AND TREAT THEM LIKE ANIMALS AND WHEN THEIR KIDS GROW UP TO BECOME CRIMINALS WE'LL BITCH AND CRY ABOUT MINORITY CRIME RATES.
Here's sensible - if you wanna come here - come legally. If you are caught here illegally - you are NEVER allowed in.

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 07:06 PM
If you are in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, or any other advanced nation you, your wife and brood get access to a universal health care system. They also get long paid maternity leave, higher wages, and an active pro-labor party in their respective governments.

Other countries do other things.



Because our constitution states that people born here are citizens and frankly when it comes to this issue we are better than they are.

Question: Why can we not treat citizens in this country like citizens in every other advanced nation are treated?????????

BULL SHIT ALERT,.....BULL SHIT ALERT

My wife was born and raised in Germany and then told that she could not return to see her family because her parents were born in Poland.
I usually don't cuss but you are a fucking idiot that don't have a clue about reality!

lacarnut
05-01-2010, 07:15 PM
If you are in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, or any other advanced nation you, your wife and brood get access to a universal health care system. They also get long paid maternity leave, higher wages, and an active pro-labor party in their respective governments.

Other countries do other things.



Because our constitution states that people born here are citizens and frankly when it comes to this issue we are better than they are.

Question: Why can we not treat citizens in this country like citizens in every other advanced nation are treated?????????

You did not answer my question asshole. FYI, I don't want to copy one thing that the Euro weenies do. Greece is bankrupt because of all the free shit, high pay and pensions for government workers and universal health care. Other countries like Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain will follow suit because of liberal socialistic policies.

Illegals should be deported pronto. If their kids are born here, they get to stay. The rest of the brood gets kicked out. They have violated our laws and are criminals in my opinion. What part of that do you not understand?.

BTW, go get a job and pay for these illegals health care, education, food stamps, etc. Freeloaders like you have no standing in this debate because you do not pay Federal Income Taxes. That makes you a leech on society.

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 07:28 PM
You did not answer my question asshole. FYI, I don't want to copy one thing that the Euro weenies do. Greece is bankrupt because of all the free shit, high pay and pensions for government workers and universal health care. Other countries like Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain will follow suit because of liberal socialistic policies.

Illegals should be deported pronto. If their kids are born here, they get to stay. The rest of the brood gets kicked out. They have violated our laws and are criminals in my opinion. What part of that do you not understand?.

BTW, go get a job and pay for these illegals health care, education, food stamps, etc. Freeloaders like you have no standing in this debate because you do not pay Federal Income Taxes. That makes you a leech on society.

That's right, if they have kids here their kids can stay, we can find a home for them. Or,....they can take their kids with them, give them the choice.

lacarnut
05-01-2010, 07:35 PM
That's right, if they have kids here their kids can stay, we can find a home for them. Or,....they can take their kids with them, give them the choice.

If the parents decided to leave the kids here, there will be no shortage of folks that would adopt them. Heck, Americans would not have to TBT to adopt along with paying crooked governments ten's of thousands of dollars. So, WE We's pathetic tirade about the children falls flat on it's face. These illegals should be deported pronto; they are breaking our laws.

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm almost at the point where I would support a shoot on sight order at the border, or I might even agree to an invasion of Mexico to straighten out the problem at the border towns. :mad:

The Jug
05-01-2010, 07:53 PM
1. Mounted .50 cals about every 250 yards on the border, and shoot to kill orders.

2. Give the illegals already here a choice. Free bus ride back home, or 10 years detention and forced labor on civil projects everytime they are caught.

3. Revoke citizenship for ALL anchor babies of illegals.

4. $5 million fine for companies that hire illegals. That's $5 million per illegal.

That should do it.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:16 PM
...and these are the people who claim to represent Christianity in America...

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 08:19 PM
...and these are the people who claim to represent Christianity in America...

You don't know the first thing about being a Christian.

Being a Christian does not mean to sit idly by and watch your family, friends and neighbors be victimized. The Christian thing to do is to act to stop it, not to blame the victims.

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:24 PM
...and these are the people who claim to represent Christianity in America...
Really? Link the post where I said I represent Christianity in America.

BTW, exactly what do you represent in America?

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Really? Link the post where I said I represent Christianity in America.

BTW, exactly what do you represent in America?

He/she/it represents the Atheist, Christian Hating Americans.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:28 PM
You don't know the first thing about being a Christian.

Being a Christian does not mean to sit idly by and watch your family, friends and neighbors be victimized. The Christian thing to do is to act to stop it, not to blame the victims.

We aren't talking about an invading army, we are talking about migrant workers trying to survive. The vast majority of them commit no violent acts and they pay taxes but get no tax benefits. They are here to work and the only crime they committed is a symbolic crime, crossing a symbolic line. They hurt no one.

You think the Christian thing to do is to break up their families, throw them into prisons, leave their children orphaned, or shoot them on sight just for "crossing the line"?

Please, teach me more about Christianity.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:29 PM
The Virtues of Christians: Revenge, Unmerciful Penalties, Zero-Tolerance, Pre-emptive Violence.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:30 PM
Really? Link the post where I said I represent Christianity in America.

BTW, exactly what do you represent in America?

Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit) tend to praise Christianity and Faith as their strongest values. What a joke.

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:34 PM
Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit) tend to praise Christianity and Faith as their strongest values. What a joke.
As opposed to the values your (insert name here) group represents? What group and values might those be?

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:34 PM
He/she/it represents the Atheist, Christian Hating Americans.

Ahahaha. You think I give you guys a hard time? You should see the grilling I give to outspoken Atheists. Oh boy I throw down the debate gauntlet the moment I hear a militant Atheist who worships Richard Dawkins (I can't stand his views of religion but he is still a brilliant biological scientist) or the awful Sam Harris who has written a book called "The End of Faith".

Christian hating? I love Christianity, I love Christ. It's one of the most beautiful things I've encountered in my life and I believe Christ spoke the Truth.

Is stereotyping and prejudice another value you learned from the Bible?

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Ahahaha. You think I give you guys a hard time? You should see the grilling I give to outspoken Atheists. Oh boy I throw down the debate gauntlet the moment I hear a militant Atheist who worships Richard Dawkins (I can't stand his views of religion but he is still a brilliant biological scientist) or the awful Sam Harris who has written a book called "The End of Faith".

Christian hating? I love Christianity, I love Christ. It's one of the most beautiful things I've encountered in my life and I believe Christ spoke the Truth.

Is stereotyping and prejudice another value you learned from the Bible?

Then you will be glad to join me as we read Psalm 109:8, and pray for Obama?

Sonnabend
05-01-2010, 08:38 PM
We aren't talking about an invading army, we are talking about migrant workers trying to survive.

Then let them emigrate legally.


The vast majority of them commit no violent acts and they pay taxes but get no tax benefits

They pay no tax as they are illegal immigrants. and therefore criminals.


. They are here to work and the only crime they committed is a symbolic crime, crossing a symbolic line. They hurt no one.

They break the law. They're criminals.


You think the Christian thing to do is to break up their families, throw them into prisons, leave their children orphaned, or shoot them on sight just for "crossing the line"?

They can reunite with their families any time they like...all they have to do is go home to Mexico.


Please, teach me more about Christianity.

No one can teach you anything. You never listen.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:40 PM
As opposed to the values your (insert name here) group represents? What group and values might those be?

I don't know what group you want to place me in, but I personally hold close the values of selflessness, forgiveness, rationality, faith, non-attachment, charity, mindfulness, and equanimity.

Those are just off the top of my head, the things I consider most important. I don't know though buddy I don't carry a list around of things to revert back to every time I face the unknown.

I don't know if that helps you with forming an image of me but I can assure you whatever image you have isn't correct (nor is any image I have of myself).

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 08:43 PM
We aren't talking about an invading army, we are talking about migrant workers trying to survive. The vast majority of them commit no violent acts and they pay taxes but get no tax benefits. They are here to work and the only crime they committed is a symbolic crime, crossing a symbolic line. They hurt no one.

You think the Christian thing to do is to break up their families, throw them into prisons, leave their children orphaned, or shoot them on sight just for "crossing the line"?

Please, teach me more about Christianity.

You have quite a way of twisting things around, doncha. I am not saying that we should break up their family, I'm saying give them that choice, go back with your kid, go back without your kid, what ever you choose to do just go back and then when you are willing to come back legally you are welcome.

At the borders, no they aren't an Army that represents a government, they aren't all that organized, but their numbers are that of an Army. They don't abide by or respect our laws, that makes them ALL criminals. They are all criminals that are invading our country, granted they only kill a couple hundred or so Americans, no not of of them kill but they all contribute to killing innocent Americans.

How would you like it if 10 people crossed you symbolic line into your yard and one of them killed just one of your family members? What would you do if there were another 10 people crossing your symbolic line again, just let them, or would you protect your family?

The only difference is the scale.

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:43 PM
Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit) tend to praise Christianity and Faith as their strongest values. What a joke.


I don't know what group you want to place me in, but I personally hold close the values of selflessness, forgiveness, rationality, faith, non-attachment, charity, mindfulness, and equanimity.

Those are just off the top of my head, the things I consider most important. I don't know though buddy I don't carry a list around of things to revert back to every time I face the unknown.

I don't know if that helps you with forming an image of me but I can assure you whatever image you have isn't correct (nor is any image I have of myself).

HMMM? You seemed pretty quick to place others in a group.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Then let them emigrate legally.

I agree. Reform the immigration process and place their citizenship status at the back of the line.



They pay no tax as they are illegal immigrants. and therefore criminals.

They pay sales taxes every day. If they are able to secure housing too they pay taxes on that. They don't pay income taxes of course but they also make below minimum wage and do not get citizenship benefits.



They break the law. They're criminals.

So impose a large fine on them. Drunk drivers are usually punished with fines and they cause thousands of deaths every year.



They can reunite with their families any time they like...all they have to do is go home to Mexico.

Home is America. Their children are American Citizens and have no citizenship status in Mexico. Some of their children are very young, you expect a 9 year old to just up and figure out how to make it? You expect a 5 year old having his parents deported for (what the child sees as) just working isn't going to develop anti-social tendencies as an adult?

You expect children who come from families that were broken up by the state to grow up and be productive and law-abiding adults?




No one can teach you anything. You never listen.

How did I learn the things I do know?

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:46 PM
HMMM? You seemed pretty quick to place others in a group.

Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit)

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:49 PM
Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit)
OK, let me put it to you this way. What broad category without much meaning do you align yourself with?

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:55 PM
You have quite a way of twisting things around, doncha. I am not saying that we should break up their family, I'm saying give them that choice, go back with your kid, go back without your kid, what ever you choose to do just go back and then when you are willing to come back legally you are welcome.

How many times in this thread have people pointed out that an American Citizen cannot simply go to Mexico? Their Children are NOT MEXICANS, they are Americans.

We cannot make a law that forces them to break the laws of another nation.

So the "take them with you to mexico" route isn't an option. So there really is no choice, you can only break up the family.



At the borders, no they aren't an Army that represents a government, they aren't all that organized, but their numbers are that of an Army. They don't abide by or respect our laws, that makes them ALL criminals. They are all criminals that are invading our country, granted they only kill a couple hundred or so Americans, no not of of them kill but they all contribute to killing innocent Americans.

How would you like it if 10 people crossed you symbolic line into your yard and one of them killed just one of your family members? What would you do if there were another 10 people crossing your symbolic line again, just let them, or would you protect your family?

The only difference is the scale.

If a person comes into my yard every day, and on one of those days 1 person hurts 1 of my family members I would not retaliate against every other person. I would not shoot people on sight.

The analogy doesn't hold up, your family is simply your family. You wouldn't deny health care to all of your family members would you? People who come into your yard can't become part of your family (except through marriage i guess...), but people who come into our country can become Americans. Your family isn't murdering each other every day are they? Americans are.

If America is analogous to a family, who are the parents?

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 08:56 PM
OK, let me put it to you this way. What broad category without much meaning do you align yourself with?

American ;)

The Jug
05-01-2010, 08:59 PM
American ;)

So, you find liberals to be worthless, lying, anti-American pieces of crap, that should be exterminated with extreme prejudice?

Sonnabend
05-01-2010, 09:02 PM
So impose a large fine on them. Drunk drivers are usually punished with fines and they cause thousands of deaths every year

Drunk drivers are JAILED. Illegal immigrants to Mexico are jailed.


Home is America. Their children are American Citizens and have no citizenship status in Mexico.

Tough shit. Their home is Mexico.


Some of their children are very young, you expect a 9 year old to just up and figure out how to make it?

Yes.


You expect a 5 year old having his parents deported for (what the child sees as) just working isn't going to develop anti-social tendencies as an adult?

Deport the child with the adult. Problem solved.


You expect children who come from families that were broken up by the state to grow up and be productive and law-abiding adults?

I expect them to go home to Mexico with their wetback parents.No anchor babies. Born of Mexican parents in the US illegally, therefore not a US citizen and therefore deported as an unwanted and undesirable alien.

At gunpoint if necessary.

"get out and dont come back."

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 09:05 PM
How many times in this thread have people pointed out that an American Citizen cannot simply go to Mexico? Their Children are NOT MEXICANS, they are Americans.

We cannot make a law that forces them to break the laws of another nation.

So the "take them with you to mexico" route isn't an option. So there really is no choice, you can only break up the family.

They should have thought about that before they came here. Mexican laws need to be fixed not ours.
If two Americans (U.S. Citizens) go overseas and have a child the child is a U.S. citizen.

So, Mexico needs to fix their laws, not the U.S.


If a person comes into my yard every day, and on one of those days 1 person hurts 1 of my family members I would not retaliate against every other person. I would not shoot people on sight.

The analogy was not a person, it was 10 people, one of them kills one of your family members and there are another 10 people coming into your yard. Would you just stand idly by or move to protect your family?

The analogy doesn't hold up, your family is simply your family. You wouldn't deny health care to all of your family members would you? People who come into your yard can't become part of your family (except through marriage i guess...), but people who come into our country can become Americans. Your family isn't murdering each other every day are they? Americans are.

If America is analogous to a family, who are the parents?

The parent question is not relevant.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 09:05 PM
So, you find liberals to be worthless, lying, anti-American pieces of crap, that should be exterminated with extreme prejudice?


I don't know what group you want to place me in, but I personally hold close the values of selflessness, forgiveness, rationality, faith, non-attachment, charity, mindfulness, and equanimity.

What do you think? I don't think anyone should be "exterminated", I should state here that I am against all forms of genocide. I don't think America the nation should kill anyone except in warfare, which should always be the last option.

Wei Wu Wei
05-01-2010, 09:06 PM
I don't find liberals or conservatives to be worthless, I believe most are honest with what they believe, and I'm sure most love their country.

Sonnabend
05-01-2010, 09:08 PM
I don't think America the nation should kill anyone except in warfare, which should always be the last option.

http://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/obamachamberlain2.jpg

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 09:09 PM
I don't find liberals or conservatives to be worthless, I believe most are honest with what they believe, and I'm sure most love their country.

You remind me of a young child that loves their pet hamster so much they hold it real tight to protect it, they hug it so tight they kill it, then they wonder what happened.

The Jug
05-01-2010, 09:12 PM
What do you think? I don't think anyone should be "exterminated", I should state here that I am against all forms of genocide. I don't think America the nation should kill anyone except in warfare, which should always be the last option.
Don't think of it as genocide.

Liberals are a cancer on America. Think of it as chemotherapy on a national scale.

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 09:18 PM
Don't think of it as genocide.

Liberals a cancer on America. Think of it as chemotherapy on a national scale.

:D:D:D

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 09:41 PM
We aren't talking about an invading army, we are talking about migrant workers trying to survive. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2096/1664296660_376dc0bae6.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iKcZ3qcCmyo/SAOl_5cwfeI/AAAAAAAAGy8/ODDgZWiIjHc/s400/IllegalImmigration.jpg

http://bp3.blogger.com/_iKcZ3qcCmyo/SAOndpcwffI/AAAAAAAAGzE/jC9sMpVD0iQ/s1600-h/La+Raza.jpg

http://www.darkworks.org/laraza2.jpg

Keep telling yourself that. . . . .

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 09:42 PM
Not you or anyone specifically, but conservatives (a broad category without much meaning, I admit) tend to praise Christianity and Faith as their strongest values. What a joke.

Mean while the left profess no values but those of the moment and see nothing as wrong as long as it brings them to their selected goals. :rolleyes:

The Jug
05-01-2010, 09:50 PM
OK, I'll break it down in the simplest of terms.

In 1492 White man hit the shores to stay.

1492-2009 White man builds a great country. YES, WE BUILT THE DAMN THING. Not Africans, not Mexicans, WHITE PEOPLE!

2010 Idiot liberals expect us to give the country away.

I'd rather burn it down, than hand it over to those who will make it a shithole.

Don't think they will make it a shithole? Look at Mexico or any African nation.

Case closed.

PoliCon
05-01-2010, 10:00 PM
1492-2009 White man builds a great country. YES, WE BUILT THE DAMN THING. Not Africans, not Mexicans, WHITE PEOPLE!



You hate the irish and the italians too don't ya. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 10:03 PM
You hate the irish and the italians too don't ya. :rolleyes:

Just the mouthy short ones I'm sure!:rolleyes:

The Jug
05-01-2010, 10:07 PM
You hate the irish and the italians too don't ya. :rolleyes:
I don't hate anyone not named Obama.

http://writingqueen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/jack_webb_250.jpg

Just the facts...

BTW, last I checked, Irish and Italians were White. I do know the Italians are have massive immigration problems right now.

Immigrant riot in Italy leaves 37 injured after series of beatings by white youths (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1241843/Racial-violence-worsens-Italy-37-wounded-immigrants-riot-response-shooting.html) (It's always Evil Ol' Whitey's fault)

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I smell a storm front blowing in!

The Jug
05-01-2010, 11:14 PM
I smell a storm front blowing in!

OMG! Don't start that shit.

That seems to be the first response as soon as someone finds out I'm not ashamed to be White.

The first time that was thrown at me, I had to Google to find out what the Hell they were talking about.

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 11:18 PM
OMG! Don't start that shit.

That seems to be the first response as soon as someone finds out I'm not ashamed to be White.

The first time that was thrown at me, I had to Google to find out what the Hell they were talking about.

Bullshit! all your self worth seems to surround your race. Cut the shit, we are not impressed!

The Jug
05-01-2010, 11:21 PM
Bullshit! all your self worth seems to surround your race. Cut the shit, we are not impressed!

Go fuck yourself, asshole.

Big Guy
05-01-2010, 11:26 PM
Go fuck yourself, asshole.

Dude, what do you expect? If someone thinks you sound like a racist, you will be called on it. Don't get angry, do/say something to correct it, unless it's true (Which I suspect is not), then you still don't have anything to be angry about.

Based on your own observations this has happened before, is it you or everyone else?

Just saying.

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 11:26 PM
Go fuck yourself, asshole.

I don't think you're what you say you are, I think your a liberal piece of shit plant or a stormfront blow hard. Conservatives don't need to honk their horns like you do! The fact that you have been confronted on another forum with stormfront tells me you're not what you say you are.
Tell me, how do you feel about Jews?

The Jug
05-01-2010, 11:29 PM
I don't think you're what you say you are, I think your a liberal piece of shit plant or a stormfront blow hard. Conservatives don't need to honk their horns like you do! The fact that you have been confronted on another forum with stormfront tells me you're not what you say you are.
Tell me, how do you feel about Jews?
I'm fine with Jews.

I hate punk dickheads, like you. I'm who I say I am. I told you, I'm not a conservative. I'm a right wing radical.

Who are you, and what part of "fuck off and die" do you fail to comprehend?

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 11:33 PM
I'm fine with Jews.

I hate punk dickheads, like you. I'm who I say I am. I told you, I'm not a conservative. I'm a right wing radical.

Who are you, and what part of "fuck off and die" do you fail to comprehend?

That's precious did Obama send a few of you out to all the conservative websites?

The Jug
05-01-2010, 11:40 PM
That's precious did Obama send a few of you out to all the conservative websites?
You seem to be very politically correct. You seem to be offended easily.

DU send you over?

Rockntractor
05-01-2010, 11:56 PM
You seem to be very politically correct. You seem to be offended easily.

DU send you over?

Oh yeah I'm politically correct big time! You got me pegged whitey!

SaintLouieWoman
05-01-2010, 11:58 PM
Question for oh brite one: What would happen if an American was illegally in a country like Mexico or South America? Answer, they would be deported, pronto. All this other bullshit about children and broken homes would NOT even enter into their decision.

To avoid the broken homes, just deport the family. They can stay together in their country of origin.

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:00 AM
Oh yeah I'm politically correct big time! You got me pegged whitey!
I know I do.

SaintLouieWoman
05-02-2010, 12:00 AM
I don't think you're what you say you are, I think your a liberal piece of shit plant or a stormfront blow hard. Conservatives don't need to honk their horns like you do! The fact that you have been confronted on another forum with stormfront tells me you're not what you say you are.
Tell me, how do you feel about Jews?

Agreed. Most folks don't state that they're right wing radicals. It's following the typical pattern of the typical poser. :rolleyes:

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:01 AM
To avoid the broken homes, just deport the family. They can stay together in their country of origin.
Exactly! Revoke citizenship for the anchor babies. Problem solved.

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:03 AM
Agreed. Most folks don't state that they're right wing radicals. It's following the typical pattern of the typical poser. :rolleyes:
I linked one member to who I am. Should I link the idiot as well?

Rockntractor
05-02-2010, 12:06 AM
I linked one member to who I am. Should I link the idiot as well?

I think you had better watch how you talk to the nice lady.:rolleyes:

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:08 AM
I think you had better watch how you talk to the nice lady.:rolleyes:
PSSST...you are "the idiot" I was refering to.

Rockntractor
05-02-2010, 12:11 AM
PSSST...you are "the idiot" I was refering to.
If you approved of me I would be concerned.

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:16 AM
If you approved of me I would be concerned.

Don't flatter yourself. Anyone with almost 13,000 posts in any forum within a year, doesn't have or do enough in life to worry about their opinion.

lacarnut
05-02-2010, 12:20 AM
PSSST...you are "the idiot" I was refering to.

Ease up Francis.

PoliCon
05-02-2010, 12:22 AM
I smell a storm front blowing in!

Smells an awful familiar.

Rockntractor
05-02-2010, 12:23 AM
Don't flatter yourself. Anyone with almost 13,000 posts in any forum within a year, doesn't have or do enough in life to worry about their opinion.

You have 36 posts in one evening and all of them are trying to impress us. I have a feeling your due for an adult diaper change by now!

PoliCon
05-02-2010, 12:24 AM
Bullshit! all your self worth seems to surround your race. Cut the shit, we are not impressed!

Damn fools don't realize that racism is all about viewing your own race as superior to others. You don't have to say bad things about others to be a racist. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
05-02-2010, 12:26 AM
You have 36 posts in one evening and all of them are trying to impress us. I have a feeling your due for an adult diaper change by now!
who wants to start the ban poll? ;)

The Jug
05-02-2010, 12:28 AM
who wants to start the ban poll? ;)

Me, I'll go first.

Ban me. I really don't care.

PoliCon
05-02-2010, 12:30 AM
Me, I'll go first.

Ban me. I really don't care.

Oh it won't be me who bans you. :)

patriot45
05-02-2010, 12:34 AM
Wow! To think I welcomed these whackos! I was almost happy we had a couple of righties instead of libtards and instead we got assholes!
I was busy watching the race and just started reading the dickheads posts!

Kay
05-02-2010, 12:50 AM
Wow! To think I welcomed these whackos! I was almost happy we had a couple of righties instead of libtards and instead we got assholes!
I was busy watching the race and just started reading the dickheads posts!

The jury is still out on Verge.
He's not been out of line that I've seen yet.

patriot45
05-02-2010, 01:15 AM
The jury is still out on Verge.
He's not been out of line that I've seen yet.

He is probably the alter ego! Good cop bad cop! :D

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 04:16 AM
OMG! Don't start that shit.

That seems to be the first response as soon as someone finds out I'm not ashamed to be White.Well well, a Stormfront troll. Straight out of the Turner Diaries :rolleyes:


The first time that was thrown at me, I had to Google to find out what the Hell they were talking about.Suuure you did...


Don't flatter yourself. Anyone with almost 13,000 posts in any forum within a year, doesn't have or do enough in life to worry about their opinion.The way you are going, looks like you fit that bill nicely.

Do you eat with that mouth?

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 07:59 AM
How many times in this thread have people pointed out that an American Citizen cannot simply go to Mexico? Their Children are NOT MEXICANS, they are Americans.

Strip them of their citizenship as they are "anchor babies" and born of illegals, deport them.


We cannot make a law that forces them to break the laws of another nation.

Yet they break US law every day.


So the "take them with you to mexico" route isn't an option. So there really is no choice, you can only break up the family.

C.M.A.F.R.

asdf2231
05-02-2010, 09:47 AM
You hate the irish and the italians too don't ya. :rolleyes:

Well shoot Poli, who the hell doesn't?!?!? :D

PoliCon
05-02-2010, 10:01 AM
Well shoot Poli, who the hell doesn't?!?!? :D

I know I know how silly of me! :rolleyes:

AmPat
05-02-2010, 10:35 AM
Whatever happened to the values of Christianity in this nation? This is just sad.What is UN-Christian about these views?
Why does this have to deteriorate into Christian values when it is about a National crisis?
Why are libertards the first to mix State and religion?
You can't have it both ways liberals. Stop trying to invoke a Deity you don't believe in.

AmPat
05-02-2010, 10:58 AM
[QUOTE]They have children. People love to start fires then they bitch and moan when their house burns down. You want to break up millions of families, and have their children grow up in broken homes with a disdain for our government? Break apart families just for revenge? That's going to turn out really great in a decade or two when these children grow up to be unstable and anti-social adults.
As opposed to the fine upstanding offspring we are witnessing in predominately LIBERAL run cities?:rolleyes:

Everyone here seems to think that a tax on a corporation is a "punishment" but a FINE imposed on a person isn't? Oh please, this isn't about punishment, this is about people just wanting to hurt other people.I'm not "everyone." I don't care what you label it but fine them for breaking the law (I'm sure even you can find MILLIONS of precedents for this) and impose jail time where necessary.

Most of these illegals commit no violence, no theft (by legal standards), or any real dangerous offense. The only crime they've committed is crossing the border illegally and working illegally. The only justification for that being punishable with prison time is xenophobia.Prison time is for BREAKING the LAW! When are you libertards going to get this through your ACORNS? Stop accusing Conservatives of every LABEL you dream up like XENOPHOBIA and RACISM or whatever else you think will stick simply because we RIGHTLY disagree with your stupid arguments.

As for taxes? They PAY taxes every time they purchase anything. They pay a lot of taxes at that and they never get a dime back in tax returns or benefits that citizens get.No kidding moron.:rolleyes:They do not pay INCOME TAXES. What is your stupid argument for that? Benefits? tHEY do GET BENEFITS FOR WHICH THEY PAY nothing. YOU ARE A LIAR AND A BAD ONE AT THAT. The 10 cents they pay in tax for the soft drink they buy does not pay for the sniffles that they have their dozen offsping suck up at the E.R. The "Tax returns" you speak of? I believe you meant "Tax Refund." A "return" is what you file, a refund is that portion of taxable income you overpaid. If they don't file, and they don't, how are they to get a refund? You have no clue of how the real world works. If you make less than 35-40K a year, you don't pay ANY income tax. Illegals send most of their earnings back to Mother Mexico.

No thanks, I'd like to employ some of that 10% unemployed under OBlah Blah by sending illegals back to Mexico and putting American CITIZENS to work.



Ever heard of a thing called the Constitution? They ARE automatically US citizens, it's called the 14th amendment.
Oh that?:rolleyes:Gee, I thought all this time that that was put there by Andrew Johnson's (No friend of Negroes) administration to do something with the legal definition of the slaves. They were chattel up to that point. Are the Mexican citizens who invaded the USA now citizens because they were Chattel in Mexico?

You guys just looooooove to bring up the constitution every chance you get, but I guess it doesn't count if the person is a different color?Again wiht the color moron? Why don't you just lick my sweaty,,,,Never mind, you would just enjoy it. I don't care, nor does anyone else here care what "color" the invading illegals are. I didn't care that Vietnamese were different. I don't care that Somalians or Africans were different, and I don't care that Mexicans are either. You throw that argument out as a way to scare peole from dissenting from your POV. It is stupid, false, and childish. Grow up moron. Learn a little about that document called the Constitution before you run off at the mouth again.;)

creepingdeath
05-02-2010, 03:35 PM
Yeah, what does Christianity have to do with this? I'm an atheist (non-militant, just not religious at all) and I'm with the send em home crew. And the light em up if they try and sneak in crew too.

BTW, this Jug dude, is a racist. He hasn't said anything to prove it beyond a doubt yet, but I know enoiugh of em to know em when I see em. In my book, that makes him more of a dick than our resident libs.

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Strip them of their citizenship as they are "anchor babies" and born of illegals, deport them.

You don't believe in the Constitution?

How is it that conservatives looooooove the constitution until it's about people of another color? Maybe it's not race that's the issue, I don't think conservatives are all racists like our buddy Jug here, but why is it that you feel it's okay to totally undermine the specific and direct language in the constitution that undeniably specifies what constitutes citizenship?

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Amendment 14 - United States Constitution

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 06:54 PM
You don't believe in the Constitution?Oh I believe in it all right, just pass a law that enables children of illegal aliens to be deported.


How is it that conservatives looooooove the constitution until it's about people of another color? Maybe it's not race that's the issue, I don't think conservatives are all racists like our buddy Jug here, but why is it that you feel it's okay to totally undermine the specific and direct language in the constitution that undeniably specifies what constitutes citizenship?RACE CARD!!!!!

TWEEEET!!!!!

They're the children of illegal aliens in the nation illegally, hence their children should be deemed to NOT be US citizens, hence deported. Like I give a rats ass what happens to them..were it up to me, they'd be marched back into the desert at gunpoint and told "Mexico is that way, get walking"

Maybe the coyotes can take them back...they got them there in the first place.


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Criminals are subject to jurisdiction. Illegal aliens are criminals.

Simple.

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Oh I believe in it all right, just pass a law that enables children of illegal aliens to be deported.

RACE CARD!!!!!

TWEEEET!!!!!

They're the children of illegal aliens in the nation illegally, hence their children should be deemed to NOT be US citizens, hence deported. Like I give a rats ass what happens to them..were it up to me, they'd be marched back into the desert at gunpoint and told "Mexico is that way, get walking"

That's not what the Constitution says. Anyone born here is a Citizen. Any law stating otherwise would be struck down by any court and it would take a new amendment to change that. Deal with it.



Criminals are subject to jurisdiction. Illegal aliens are criminals.

Simple.

Right, so we should fine them, just like we do with many other criminals.

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 07:24 PM
Right, so we should fine them, just like we do with many other criminals.

...and let them stay anyway?

NO.

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 07:26 PM
That's not what the Constitution says. Anyone born here is a Citizen. Any law stating otherwise would be struck down by any court and it would take a new amendment to change that. Deal with it.

Oh I think that an amendment would pass quite handily...y'see, the backlash against illegals is that large that any amendment of that type would gain overwhelming support.

That's why any President or Congress is too gutless to put it to the people, they know full well what will happen.

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 07:30 PM
...and let them stay anyway?

NO.

Why not?

We cannot deport the children or force Mexico to legally accept them, they are US Citizens.

If we deport the adults, we will create millions of broken homes, and these children are going to grow up and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of breaking up their families. The plague of crime amongst inner-city black youth is often attributed in part to the breakup of the Family structure as countless children grow up without fathers.

Breaking up these families will do a lot of harm.

So my question to you is: what good will it do to deport these people? Is it worth the millions of broken homes it will create and the social problems that will follow in the next 2 decades?

If it's about justice, law, or punishment, there's no reason we cannot settle on a fine. These are non-violent offenders and most non-violent crimes are punishable with fines.

So what sensible reason is there to deport them?

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 07:31 PM
We can fine them heavily, place them in the back of the line for citizenship, and require them to learn english. What more do you want?

Revenge? To purge Mexicans out of our society? What exactly?

Sonnabend
05-02-2010, 07:31 PM
Why not? We cannot deport the children or force Mexico to legally accept them, they are US Citizens.That can be corrected.



If we deport the adults, we will create millions of broken homes, and these children are going to grow up and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of breaking up their families. The plague of crime amongst inner-city black youth is often attributed in part to the breakup of the Family structure as countless children grow up without fathers.

Like I give a shit? Kick em out and send em home.


Breaking up these families will do a lot of harm.

Illegals have done a lot of harm already, like the Marine who was killed by an illegal driving a car he did not own using a false drivers licence.


So my question to you is: what good will it do to deport these people? Is it worth the millions of broken homes it will create and the social problems that will follow in the next 2 decades?

Let Mexico deal with that


If it's about justice, law, or punishment, there's no reason we cannot settle on a fine. These are non-violent offenders and most non-violent crimes are punishable with fines.

They are already violent.


So what sensible reason is there to deport them?

They're illegal aliens

Wei Wu Wei
05-02-2010, 07:33 PM
That can be corrected.

Not without a Constitutional Amendment.

The Constitution is extremely specific about people being born in the US. They are CItizens. You're out of your mind if you think we're going to get a Constitutional Amendment to change that, but if that's what you want, that's what you should support.

Until the Constitution is changed, the sort of policy you are advocating CAN NOT be implemented because it's Unconstitutional.

Sonnabend
05-03-2010, 07:20 AM
Not without a Constitutional Amendment.

The Constitution is extremely specific about people being born in the US. They are CItizens. You're out of your mind if you think we're going to get a Constitutional Amendment to change that, but if that's what you want, that's what you should support.

I would dearly love to see that happen...if and when it is proposed, you'd get the shock of your life to see how much support it would have,


Until the Constitution is changed, the sort of policy you are advocating CAN NOT be implemented because it's Unconstitutional.

For now.

Wei Wu Wei
05-03-2010, 04:39 PM
I would dearly love to see that happen...if and when it is proposed, you'd get the shock of your life to see how much support it would have,


It would revoke EVERYONE'S citizenship status. I'm a citizen because I was born here, you're a citizen (I presume) because you were born here. The vast, VAST majority of citizens earned their status upon birth.

The only people who didn't get citizenship status from birth are IMMIGRANTS, who I doubt would support such an amendment.

I hardly believe that the majority of Americans would support revoking their own citizenship status.

Wei Wu Wei
05-03-2010, 04:47 PM
That can be corrected.




Like I give a shit? Kick em out and send em home.

Unlike you, there are millions of Americans who do not want to recklessly break up millions of families and cause future decades of soaring crime rates and social problems just because they hate illegal immigrants.


This is irrational, stubborn, and unrealistic. Change the United States Constitution just so we can deport Mexicans? Oh please.

Some people are looking out for what's best for our nation as a whole, not simply trying to get revenge or purge the Mexicans or whatever it is you want.

Again:

So my question to you is: what good will it do to deport these people? Is it worth the millions of broken homes it will create and the social problems that will follow in the next 2 decades? If it's about justice, law, or punishment, there's no reason we cannot settle on a fine. These are non-violent offenders and most non-violent crimes are punishable with fines. So what sensible reason is there to deport them?

You said:


Let Mexico deal with that

They are already violent.

They're illegal aliens

1. We cannot "let Mexico deal with it" without changing a very fundamental aspect of our Constitution. You can keep banging your head against a door but it's not going to open unless you turn the knob. The problem is ours unless and until the Constitution is changed.

2. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are non-violent, there is no reason to impose prison penalties on them when most other non-violent crimes are punishable with a Fine. If this is about justice or law, then the fine should work.

You say it's "because they're illegal immigrants" which translates to "because they broke the law", which means you are appealing to upholding Justice and Law, which CAN BE DONE WITH A FINE.

Again, what sensible reason is there to imprison and deport millions of illegal immigrants, taking into account the massive social problems that will arise from it?

FBIGuy
05-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Amazing... just about every CU jerk on the same thread. Totally priceless


Pigman
Polianna
Sonnajerk
Le Car nutz
The Jughead
Wee Wee

If you can get wilbur brimlly and The Naught Owl to join you could have a big old fashion circle jerk. Polianna can be pivot man!!!!

KhrushchevsShoe
05-03-2010, 06:23 PM
I would dearly love to see that happen...if and when it is proposed, you'd get the shock of your life to see how much support it would have.
Ask around this here CU (where I have been lurking for a bit) about the popularity of altering the United States Constitution, the response will be less than enthusiastic.

PoliCon
05-03-2010, 08:22 PM
You don't believe in the Constitution?

How is it that conservatives looooooove the constitution until it's about people of another color? Maybe it's not race that's the issue, I don't think conservatives are all racists like our buddy Jug here, but why is it that you feel it's okay to totally undermine the specific and direct language in the constitution that undeniably specifies what constitutes citizenship?

WTF!? This is not about race you stupid fuck. Why do you leftist assholes always try to make everything about fucking RACE!???? I don't give a shit what color the person is - I don't care what country they've come from - if they're here illegally - throw the book at them. And if they come in legally - God bless 'em.

Rockntractor
05-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Amazing... just about every CU jerk on the same thread. Totally priceless


Pigman
Polianna
Sonnajerk
Le Car nutz
The Jughead
Wee Wee

If you can get wilbur brimlly and The Naught Owl to join you could have a big old fashion circle jerk. Polianna can be pivot man!!!!

:D

PoliCon
05-03-2010, 08:53 PM
Amendment 14 - United States Constitution

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


NATURALIZED:

One who, having been born in another country or otherwise reared as a foreigner, has been granted U.S. Citizenship and the rights and privileges of that status. The process by which such a person attains citizenship is called naturalization. 8 U.S.C. 1421 et seq. The person seeking naturalization must satisfy the burden of establishing good moral character and must be a resident of the United States for five years. 8 U.S.C. 1427.

as for being born here - you might wanna brush up on Elk v. Wilkins, 83 U.S. 36 (1872). If you are born here - but not subject to the American Jurisdiction because you owe immediate allegiance to some other government - in other words if you're parents are both citizens of another country - you are not a citizen.

FURTHERMORE -

Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) states explicitly:


the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign states, born within the United States. emphasis added. :cool:

BSR
05-03-2010, 08:53 PM
WTF!? This is not about race you stupid fuck. Why do you leftist assholes always try to make everything about fucking RACE!???? I don't give a shit what color the person is - I don't care what country they've come from - if they're here illegally - throw the book at them. And if they come in legally - God bless 'em.


THIS.

PoliCon
05-03-2010, 08:55 PM
That's not what the Constitution says. Anyone born here is a Citizen. Any law stating otherwise would be struck down by any court and it would take a new amendment to change that. Deal with it.




Right, so we should fine them, just like we do with many other criminals.

Actually - the constitution is silent on the matter. Neither natural born nor naturalized citizen is defined in the constitution.

PoliCon
05-03-2010, 08:58 PM
Why not?

We cannot deport the children or force Mexico to legally accept them, they are US Citizens. According to whom?


If we deport the adults, we will create millions of broken homes, and these children are going to grow up and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of breaking up their families. The plague of crime amongst inner-city black youth is often attributed in part to the breakup of the Family structure as countless children grow up without fathers. We take kids away from criminals all the time.


Breaking up these families will do a lot of harm. Which is why they should stay intact and be sent home together.

PoliCon
05-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Amazing... just about every CU jerk on the same thread. Totally priceless


Pigman
Polianna
Sonnajerk
Le Car nutz
The Jughead
Wee Wee

If you can get wilbur brimlly and The Naught Owl to join you could have a big old fashion circle jerk. Polianna can be pivot man!!!!

You can lick the sweat from my balls sock boy. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
05-03-2010, 09:55 PM
You can lick the sweat from my balls sock boy. :rolleyes:

Poli is speaking for himself, you can leave mine alone!:eek:

KhrushchevsShoe
05-03-2010, 10:29 PM
WTF!? This is not about race you stupid fuck. Why do you leftist assholes always try to make everything about fucking RACE!???? I don't give a shit what color the person is - I don't care what country they've come from - if they're here illegally - throw the book at them. And if they come in legally - God bless 'em.

Unfortunately at some level it is about race (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showpost.php?p=266765&postcount=14). Maybe not to you, probably not even to the consensus of this board. But to some people it is still about race.

BSR
05-03-2010, 10:40 PM
Poli is speaking for himself, you can leave mine alone!:eek:

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/14/129157546596021572.gif

patriot45
05-03-2010, 10:49 PM
You can lick the sweat from my balls sock boy. :rolleyes:



Where do these moonbats come from sticking thier nose where it don't belong! :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i230/patriot45270/september/nosegroin.jpg

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:50 PM
Wow, I agree with the fucktard for once...almost...



You forgot this part.

d. Make it a felony to be in the US illegally.
e. Any person caught in the US illegally will be sentenced to a minimum of two years in prison.
f. Upon completion of sentence, person is deported to their shithole of origin.

Perfect!!!

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:52 PM
Many of these people have kids. Have them pay a fine,they already do work and pay taxes, punish them financially. If we throw these parents in prison and deport them we are only going to have an entire population of American Citizens (their children) who are living in broken homes, and we know that enormous rates of of broken homes can have huge societal problems when these children get older.

We can't destroy families, destabilize communities, and not expect to see the consequences of it later, just for revenge. We can punish them with fines or probationary periods for access to certain privileges but what you are advocating does more harm than good, especially because of their children.

Fuck their kids.. They only had kids because they knew it would improve their political status... No pawns allowed.....
The anchor-baby law should have been repealed years ago....

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
Why don't the Tea Party move to Mexico? They have a very limited government and lower taxes :cool:

You are fucking retarded.

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
What should be done?

Walls.

Landmines.

Gun towers.

Arrest and imprison anyone harbouring illegals.

Take the coyotes and execute five publically. Add a message "You are next"

Any and all illegals sent back across the desert, immediate deportation.

My Brother!!! I love you!!!! Keep up the good fight-even if the kangaroo has lead-lined gloves....

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:58 PM
Whatever happened to the values of Christianity in this nation? This is just sad.

You are a total idiot... Christianity?? You teach a man to fish, instead of giving him a fish.... America has lost this....

stsinner
05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
1. Mounted .50 cals about every 250 yards on the border, and shoot to kill orders.

2. Give the illegals already here a choice. Free bus ride back home, or 10 years detention and forced labor on civil projects everytime they are caught.

3. Revoke citizenship for ALL anchor babies of illegals.

4. $5 million fine for companies that hire illegals. That's $5 million per illegal.

That should do it.

Awesome ideas....

Molon Labe
05-04-2010, 08:43 AM
Fine the business that hires the illegal 1st time offense $1000
2nd offense $5,000.....3rd $15,000

When the jobs dry up, illegals go home. Then the law enforcement part get's that much easier. ICE comes to my town all the time and rounds them up this way.

PoliCon
05-04-2010, 09:21 AM
Fine the business that hires the illegal 1st time offense $1000
2nd offense $5,000.....3rd $15,000

When the jobs dry up, illegals go home. Then the law enforcement part get's that much easier. ICE comes to my town all the time and rounds them up this way.

You're far too generous. I'd hit them hard the first time and confiscate the business the second time.But your point is sound. Make it unprofitable to hire illegals - the jobs will dry up - and they will stop coming.

Rebel Yell
05-04-2010, 11:08 AM
2. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are non-violent, there is no reason to impose prison penalties on them when most other non-violent crimes are punishable with a Fine. If this is about justice or law, then the fine should work.

You say it's "because they're illegal immigrants" which translates to "because they broke the law", which means you are appealing to upholding Justice and Law, which CAN BE DONE WITH A FINE.

Again, what sensible reason is there to imprison and deport millions of illegal immigrants, taking into account the massive social problems that will arise from it?

Ok, we argree on not sending them to prison. Our prison population is already rididculous. Plus, they would still be here.

Fining them is equally as stupid. You're breaking the law by being here, so just pay a fine. When Paco walks out the door from paying his fine, guess what? He's breaking the law again.

Apache
05-04-2010, 02:55 PM
Boy! I knew this would be a hot topic :D


I also knew that I would find a thread like this one too :rolleyes:


Wee Wee, must you always be on the wrong side of the issue?


Put up a wall (constructed with illegal labor), toss all of them on the other side, and let them deal with their own country. Mexico has NEVER been a friend of the United States and NEVER will be...



Truth be told...Fuck em....

Rebel Yell
05-04-2010, 03:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO5EFYY6P14

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:05 PM
as for being born here - you might wanna brush up on Elk v. Wilkins, 83 U.S. 36 (1872).

That's not what Elk v. Wilksins was about. That case was about Native Americans born on Reserverations, which are technically not subject to full American Jurisdiction, but also technically not Foreign soil.

The court upheld that Native Americans born on reservations were not citizens but this was later nullified and Elk was granted Citizenship based on his birth, and future cases specified this exception.

You might wanna brush up on United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which specifically addresses the issue at hand: children of non-citizens who are born in the United States.

The Supreme Court decided that children born on US soil by 2 parents who are non-citizens and subjects of a foreign country ARE citizens.


If you are born here - but subject to the American Jurisdiction because you owe immediate allegiance to some other government - in other words if you're parents are both citizens of another country - you are not a citizen.

That bolded part doesn't make sense. If you are born here, BUT, subject to American Jurisdiction? You aren't subject to American Jurisdiction is you're born somewhere else, you are subject to American Jurisdiction if you are born here.

Time and time again the precedent has been set that as long as you are born on US soil where US laws apply, then you are a citizen regardless of the citizenship status of your parents.



FURTHERMORE -

Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) states explicitly:


the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign states, born within the United States. emphasis added. :cool:


The Slaughterhouse cases you are citing were older than the future cases I am citing that further clarified the meaning of these terms.

In the United States v. Wong Kim Ark (a future case), the court decided that there was no definition for "natural born citizen" within the Constitution, and the majority of the court decided to adopt the English common-law, stating:


It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

This means that, contrary to what the Slaughterhouse cases decided, this future ruling overturned any doubt by stating that anyone born here, of alien parents are citizens unless the parents are diplomats or citizens of a nation that has occupied the US in war.

patriot45
05-04-2010, 09:14 PM
That's not what Elk v. Wilksins was about. That case was about Native Americans born on Reserverations, which are technically not subject to full American Jurisdiction, but also technically not Foreign soil.

The court upheld that Native Americans born on reservations were not citizens but this was later nullified and Elk was granted Citizenship based on his birth, and future cases specified this exception.

You might wanna brush up on United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which specifically addresses the issue at hand: children of non-citizens who are born in the United States.

The Supreme Court decided that children born on US soil by 2 parents who are non-citizens and subjects of a foreign country ARE citizens.



That bolded part doesn't make sense. If you are born here, BUT, subject to American Jurisdiction? You aren't subject to American Jurisdiction is you're born somewhere else, you are subject to American Jurisdiction if you are born here.

Time and time again the precedent has been set that as long as you are born on US soil where US laws apply, then you are a citizen regardless of the citizenship status of your parents.





The Slaughterhouse cases you are citing were older than the future cases I am citing that further clarified the meaning of these terms.

In the United States v. Wong Kim Ark (a future case), the court decided that there was no definition for "natural born citizen" within the Constitution, and the majority of the court decided to adopt the English common-law, stating:



This means that, contrary to what the Slaughterhouse cases decided, this future ruling overturned any doubt by stating that anyone born here, of alien parents are citizens unless the parents are diplomats or citizens of a nation that has occupied the US in war.

That was like reading a DU screed! I am not college smart, I am life smart. I will never post a 500 word rebuttall to you idiots. I can usually refute you with a sentance. Why is common sense, or street smarts always ruled out with you geniouses!?
Secure the border, enforce the laws on the books. Wow, that was tough! I almost had to copy and paste!
Dickhead.

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:17 PM
That was like reading a DU screed! I am not college smart, I am life smart. I will never post a 500 word rebuttall to you idiots. I can usually refute you with a sentance. Why is common sense, or street smarts always ruled out with you geniouses!?
Secure the border, enforce the laws on the books. Wow, that was tough! I almost had to copy and paste!
Dickhead.

Haha yeah bro right on.

Hey I got some solutions too:

Politicians should start being honest
people should get along
end crime
end poverty
kill every terrorist
cure all diseases

BOOYA where's my nobel prize in common sense? I have all the answers I mean it's so simple. Haha why do we even have universities?

patriot45
05-04-2010, 09:24 PM
Haha yeah bro right on.

Hey I got some solutions too:

Politicians should start being honest
people should get along
end crime
end poverty
kill every terrorist
cure all diseases

BOOYA where's my nobel prize in common sense? I have all the answers I mean it's so simple. Haha why do we even have universities?

See, you are delusional! I didn't say I had all the answers. But let me ask you this professor, do we live in a democracy?

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:24 PM
Someone make patriot45 the new CEO of GM, his business plan: "make money"

Or better yet, make patriot45 the head General of the Army, his war strategy: "win"

Such wisdom

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:25 PM
See, you are delusional! I didn't say I had all the answers. But let me ask you this professor, do we live in a democracy?

What is this, a 5th grade civics lesson? No we don't live in a democracy, our system is democratically based but it's a constitutional federal republic

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:28 PM
patriot45 becomes a head chef at a 5-star resturant. His secret: "make good food"

patriot45 becomes the new NYPD police chief, his plan: "catch all the bad guys"

Wei Wu Wei
05-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the insight buddy, also everyone else posting in this thread. I can see the HEART of REAL AMERICA is guiding us in the right direction, because everyone knows the right direction is very simple: go right.

patriot45
05-04-2010, 09:32 PM
patriot45 becomes a head chef at a 5-star resturant. His secret: "make good food"

patriot45 becomes the new NYPD police chief, his plan: "catch all the bad guys"

Wee wee, you have actually said smart thing even tho you are being sarcastic! The simple things are overlooked and sneered at by the so called intelligent elites, IE, you.

And for your edification we are a republic where the rule of law is sacrosant. We , or more like you have perverted it.

Rockntractor
05-04-2010, 09:33 PM
Wei Wei finally gets it!:confused:

patriot45
05-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Wei Wei finally gets it!:confused:

No, trust me Rock. When the drip says the things like ;

His secret: "make good food
his plan: "catch all the bad guys
his war strategy: "win"
his business plan: "make money

These are truths, the common sense things that we instictively know, they are antithema to him.

Sonnabend
05-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Politicians should start being honest - never happen
people should get along - starting with you and some tolerance.
end crime - hand every law abiding citizen guns and carte blanche permission to blow the heads off any criminal that threatens them - solved
end poverty - make em self sufficient and they wont need help
kill every terrorist - YES. Publically. Firing squads at dawn.
cure all diseases - Sorry, we cant cure stupidity

PoliCon
05-04-2010, 11:56 PM
That's not what Elk v. Wilksins was about. That case was about Native Americans born on Reserverations, which are technically not subject to full American Jurisdiction, but also technically not Foreign soil. NO SHIT SHERLOCK.
http://moderateinthemiddle.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/no-shit-sherlock.jpg


The court upheld that Native Americans born on reservations were not citizens but this was later nullified and Elk was granted Citizenship based on his birth, and future cases specified this exception.It was nullified by a law which gave ALL indians American citizenship.


You might wanna brush up on United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which specifically addresses the issue at hand: children of non-citizens who are born in the United States.

The Supreme Court decided that children born on US soil by 2 parents who are non-citizens and subjects of a foreign country ARE citizens.FUCKTARD - The ruling states:


In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.
The children of ILLEGAL ALIENS are in fact part of an unorganized but hostile force in occupation of US Territory. If this were not the case - they would be here FUCKING LEGALLY YOU SHIT BREATHED WASTE OF SKIN.




That bolded part doesn't make sense. If you are born here, BUT, subject to American Jurisdiction? You aren't subject to American Jurisdiction is you're born somewhere else, you are subject to American Jurisdiction if you are born here. Seriously. Your mother should have swallowed you. You might want to invest in a dictionary - and not some cheap ass mass produced paperback dictionary either. Get a serious scholarly one.

JURISDICTION in this case means that you are a FUCKING CITIZEN or SUBJECT of and under the government in question. If you are a Saudi Arabian SUBJECT then you are not under the jurisdiction of the US government.


Time and time again the precedent has been set that as long as you are born on US soil where US laws apply, then you are a citizen regardless of the citizenship status of your parents. Oh yes. Just like how precedent was set that codified that Blacks were not citizens and were not due natural rights being property. :rolleyes: I love how you act like precedent is GODLIKE and infallible. Being precedent does not make it any less wrong.






The Slaughterhouse cases you are citing were older than the future cases I am citing that further clarified the meaning of these terms.they didn't clarify shit. They muddled things is what they did. Reality is - that the ORIGINAL INTENT was NEVER to give citizenship to foreigners - legal or otherwise just because they were born here. Citizenship was ALWAYS viewed is hereditary by the FF and all subsequent courts for the largest part of American history - INCLUDING the period where in the 14th Amendment was written and immediately after.


In the United States v. Wong Kim Ark (a future case), the court decided that there was no definition for "natural born citizen" within the Constitution, and the majority of the court decided to adopt the English common-law, stating: And they were wrong - just like you are. Big surprise there. :rolleyes: But you contintue to overlook a very key and important fact: Mr. Wong's parents were here FUCKING LEGALLY!




This means that, contrary to what the Slaughterhouse cases decided, this future ruling overturned any doubt by stating that anyone born here, of alien parents are citizens unless the parents are diplomats or citizens of a nation that has occupied the US in war. And when we get real justices on the court again - men and women who interpret the constitution according to the constitution - God what a novel idea that will be - your pet case will find itself over turned - or at the very least they will recognize that the mass illegal immigration from Mexico constitutes an act of hostility and deny citizenship to illegals.

PoliCon
05-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Haha yeah bro right on.

Hey I got some solutions too:

Politicians should start being honest
people should get along
end crime
end poverty
kill every terrorist
cure all diseases

BOOYA where's my nobel prize in common sense? I have all the answers I mean it's so simple. Haha why do we even have universities?

and the easiest way to do all of those things is to kill all leftists. Do your duty.

PoliCon
05-04-2010, 11:59 PM
Someone make patriot45 the new CEO of GM, his business plan: "make money"

Or better yet, make patriot45 the head General of the Army, his war strategy: "win"

Such wisdom

very much so on both counts. A company that is not interested in making money is worthless - and an army that does not have winning as it's goal is already defeated. :rolleyes:

lacarnut
05-05-2010, 12:09 AM
Someone make patriot45 the new CEO of GM, his business plan: "make money"

Or better yet, make patriot45 the head General of the Army, his war strategy: "win"

Such wisdom

He would do a better job than you or the Magic Negro.

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 12:13 AM
The children of ILLEGAL ALIENS are in fact part of an unorganized but hostile force in occupation of US Territory. If this were not the case - they would be here FUCKING LEGALLY YOU SHIT BREATHED WASTE OF SKIN.

A group of migrant workers is not an occupying nation. They might scare you but until Mexico formally declares war on the United States, this doesn't mean anything.

I know some people feel like they are under a constant attack, a constant threat that they need to relentlessly defend against by any means, but your insecurities doesn't make a war.


Seriously. Your mother should have swallowed you. You might want to invest in a dictionary - and not some cheap ass mass produced paperback dictionary either. Get a serious scholarly one.

Haha wanna see a picture of my bookshelves buddy?


JURISDICTION in this case means that you are a FUCKING CITIZEN or SUBJECT of and under the government in question. If you are a Saudi Arabian SUBJECT then you are not under the jurisdiction of the US government.

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

You said this: "If you are born here - but subject to the American Jurisdiction because you owe immediate allegiance to some other government - in other words if you're parents are both citizens of another country - you are not a citizen."

If you are born here (subject to American Jurisdiction) - right here is where you messed up. If you are born here you are subject to American Jurisdiction. The "BUT" you placed there is nullifies the definition you are trying to give now.

"in other words if-" hahah no that's not what it means. nice try though.


Oh yes. Just like how precedent was set that codified that Blacks were not citizens and were not due natural rights being property. :rolleyes: I love how you act like precedent is GODLIKE and infallible. Being precedent does not make it any less wrong.

The history of our country has shown, in general, a progression towards equality and justice in the interpretation of the constitution via court precedents.

It's not GODLIKE or infallable (unless you are of the school of Thomas Hobbes), but it is the law of the land.


they didn't clarify shit. They muddled things is what they did. Reality is - that the ORIGINAL INTENT was NEVER to give citizenship to foreigners - legal or otherwise just because they were born here.

How can someone who is born here be a foreigner?


Citizenship was ALWAYS viewed is hereditary by the FF and all subsequent courts for the largest part of American history - INCLUDING the period where in the 14th Amendment was written and immediately after.

Yeah and women were ALWAYS viewed as less than men, and could not vote , as intended by the Founding Fathers, for the largest part of American History.



And they were wrong - just like you are. Big surprise there. :rolleyes: But you contintue to overlook a very key and important fact: Mr. Wong's parents were here [B]FUCKING LEGALLY!
And when we get real justices on the court again - men and women who interpret the constitution according to the constitution - God what a novel idea that will be - your pet case will find itself over turned - or at the very least they will recognize that the mass illegal immigration from Mexico constitutes an act of hostility and deny citizenship to illegals.

Well, when the the Supreme Court decides in your favor, you'll have some basis to argue for your radical policy positions. Until then, you should stay grounded in reality and stay grounded in the Constitution as it is currently interpreted. Children born here are US Citizens, whether you like to admit it or not.

Sonnabend
05-05-2010, 01:51 AM
Wei never did get around to telling me what he thought what constituted "reasonable gun control"..not that I am surprised.

Tell me Wei, in what manner, and in what form, do gun control laws stop criminals getting their hands on whatever guns they want?

Gun laws affect only the law abiding,.

Yes or no.

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 01:58 AM
Wei never did get around to telling me what he thought what constituted "reasonable gun control"..not that I am surprised.

Tell me Wei, in what manner, and in what form, do gun control laws stop criminals getting their hands on whatever guns they want?

Gun laws affect only the law abiding,.

Yes or no.

start a gun control thread

PoliCon
05-05-2010, 02:02 AM
A group of migrant workers is not an occupying nation. They might scare you but until Mexico formally declares war on the United States, this doesn't mean anything.Ah but they have. You and your friends on the left however have your heads too far up your own asses to notice. When the Mexican government publishes and distributes pamphelts on how to invade the US - it's a declaration of war. BTW - formal declaration? Are you fucking retarded?? What am I saying? OF COURSE YOU ARE!

OH and they don't scare me. They piss me off. But what pisses me off more is when fucktards like you call them nice innocuous things like 'migrant workers' instead of what they actually are - ILLEGAL ALIENS.


I know some people feel like they are under a constant attack, a constant threat that they need to relentlessly defend against by any means, but your insecurities doesn't make a war. You move down to within 5 miles of the boarder and live there for just 6 months and lets hear what you have to say then.




Haha wanna see a picture of my bookshelves buddy? oh well if you post a picture that proves everything. :rolleyes: I mean it's not like you couldn't possibly grab a pic off the net and claim it's yours . . . . But then I do find it interesting that you're willing to offer any support for your supposed facts.




Yes. That is exactly what I said.

You said this: "If you are born here - but subject to the American Jurisdiction because you owe immediate allegiance to some other government - in other words if you're parents are both citizens of another country - you are not a citizen."

If you are born here [BUT] (subject to American Jurisdiction) - right here is where you messed up. If you are born here you are subject to American Jurisdiction. The "BUT" you placed there is nullifies the definition you are trying to give now.

"in other words if-" hahah no that's not what it means. nice try though. You really need to learn how to read.





The history of our country has shown, in general, a progression towards equality and justice in the interpretation of the constitution via court precedents. Equality is a myth perpetrated by progressives in an attempt to seduce the ignorant into supporting their campaigns to be placed in positions of superiority. :rolleyes: As for justice - you don't even know what the word means. :rolleyes: If you did - you would recognize that justice demands that illegals be deported.


It's not GODLIKE or infallable (unless you are of the school of Thomas Hobbes), but it is the law of the land. No - Natural law is the law of the land. precedents are laws of the politicians.




How can someone who is born here be a foreigner?


FOR'EIGNER, n. for'aner. A person born in a foreign country, or without the country or jurisdiction of which one speaks.

Citizenship is bestowed ceremonially through naturalization or hereditary through your parents. If your parents are both foreign invaders - you are also a foreign invader. If your parents are both foreign nationals - you are also a foreign national.





Yeah and women were ALWAYS viewed as less than men, and could not vote , as intended by the Founding Fathers, for the largest part of American History.And their wisdom kept this country on solid footing for generations.



Well, when the the Supreme Court decides in your favor, you'll have some basis to argue for your radical policy positions. Until then, you should stay grounded in reality and stay grounded in the Constitution as it is currently interpreted. Children born here are US Citizens, whether you like to admit it or not.Dumbass - I don't need the SCOTUS to rule in my favor to be right. :rolleyes: Right or wrong is not decided by the court. Rightness or wrongness is inherent. If the courts are too fucking stupid to see reality - you ignore the courts and do what is right anyhow. GOD BLESS ARIZONA.

And what's radical about deporting foreign invaders?? Radical is rewarding them for breaking the law and shitting on us.

jediab
05-05-2010, 09:03 AM
It's about time we stop calling them Illegal Aliens, and start calling them what they really are. Undocumented Democrats.

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 10:18 AM
Ah but they have. You and your friends on the left however have your heads too far up your own asses to notice. When the Mexican government publishes and distributes pamphelts on how to invade the US - it's a declaration of war. BTW - formal declaration? Are you fucking retarded?? What am I saying? OF COURSE YOU ARE!

The law requires a formal declaration or a formal invasion by a Military force. Feeling scared isn't a war.


OH and they don't scare me. They piss me off. But what pisses me off more is when fucktards like you call them nice innocuous things like 'migrant workers' instead of what they actually are - ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Anger is fear buddy.


You move down to within 5 miles of the boarder and live there for just 6 months and lets hear what you have to say then.

I'm a Texan, cowboy.

and yeah I spent a few years right down south near the border now I live in central Texas.

Somehow I survived.


oh well if you post a picture that proves everything. :rolleyes: I mean it's not like you couldn't possibly grab a pic off the net and claim it's yours . . . . But then I do find it interesting that you're willing to offer any support for your supposed facts.

Oh please, the last time you called me out, claiming that I was lying about reading Glenn Beck's book I posted a picture with a handwritten note saying "Hi Policon".

The whole world is lying to you bro, it's all a big scheme, it's all behind the scenes, only you have the truth, hold onto it with all your strength, never let go, never give in, shine on you crazy diamond.



Equality is a myth perpetrated by progressives in an attempt to seduce the ignorant into supporting their campaigns to be placed in positions of superiority. :rolleyes:

So the civil rights movement was just a trick by progressives to support their campaigns? Those tricky bastards, we should go back to the good ol days when you knew where you were then...girls were girls and men were men, thooosee were thee dayyysss.


As for justice - you don't even know what the word means. :rolleyes: If you did - you would recognize that justice demands that illegals be deported.

Haha no it doesn't. They commit a non-violent crime, fine the hell out of them, place them in the back of the line for citizenship, and make them learn english.



No - Natural law is the law of the land. precedents are laws of the politicians.

Please elaborate on what you consider "natural law"




Citizenship is bestowed ceremonially through naturalization or hereditary through your parents. If your parents are both foreign invaders - you are also a foreign invader. If your parents are both foreign nationals - you are also a foreign national.

The Constitution does not say anything about the parents. The words are "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

We're not talking about naturalization, but someone who is born here. All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States.




And their wisdom kept this country on solid footing for generations.

So women shouldn't vote? Or minorities? Just like the Founding Fathers intended?


Dumbass - I don't need the SCOTUS to rule in my favor to be right. :rolleyes: Right or wrong is not decided by the court. Rightness or wrongness is inherent. If the courts are too fucking stupid to see reality - you ignore the courts and do what is right anyhow. GOD BLESS ARIZONA.

You may think it's right but it's still illegal.


And what's radical about deporting foreign invaders?? Radical is rewarding them for breaking the law and shitting on us.

What's radical is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. You want to deport these people but then bitch and whine about the social chaos that comes from millions of children of broken homes grow up. Fining them is hardly rewarding them. Placing them behind all legal immigrants for citizenship is hardly rewarding them.

lacarnut
05-05-2010, 10:35 AM
WEE, WEE; you have too much time on your hands. Go find a job and become a productive citizen rather than a leech.

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 10:39 AM
WEE, WEE; you have too much time on your hands. Go find a job and become a productive citizen rather than a leech.

I've worked for years and saved money without frivolous spending. As a result, I don't have to work for a little while, and I can spend my time doing things that are more rewarding than making money. I'm not rich, so this won't last long, but as long as I'm able to focus on volunteer work I will.

I still pay plenty of taxes even though I'm not actively bringing in my normal income.

Productive citizen? I do a lot of work, just because I'm not getting paid for it doesn't take away from what I do.

What exactly am I "leeching" off of, besides my savings account?

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 10:40 AM
Let me offer a suggestion. Go to a library.

lacarnut
05-05-2010, 11:32 AM
Let me offer a suggestion. Get a job so that all that free shit Obama is giving away can be paid for.

FIXED

JR2980
05-05-2010, 12:15 PM
3. For the illegals who are already here:
a. Make them pay a fine, a large fine at that. They broke the law.
b. Place them in the back of the line for citizenship, they can become citizens and get the full benefits of citizenship (voting, services, health care, immigration and travel benefits) but no sooner than anyone who is taking the legal route.
c. Require an English test. Part of the issue isn't just legal or economic, but cultural. They are free to keep and celebrate their culture but to ease their assimilation process they should be able to communicate fluently with American english speakers. I am reluctant to anything that amounts to an "official language" but I do recognize how strong cultural divisions can be detrimental to a cohesive society.


There are a few things you have posted that I agree with, but could you elaborate a little on these quotes?




a. Make them pay a fine, a large fine at that. They broke the law.

What kind of fine are you thinking - $1,000, $10,000, $100,000?


You advocate a large fine, but how will they pay it on their minimum wage job, or when they are unemployed?

Do we give them 10 years to pay it?

What of their status in the meantime - are they still illegal, or do they now have special status?

do they collect benefits now for unemployment if there are no jobs for them?

How do you expect them to get the money to pay their "large fine"?

In 10 years if they haven't paid their fine, do they get a 10 year extension?

After the extension, and they still haven't paid their fine, then what????




b. Place them in the back of the line for citizenship, they can become citizens and get the full benefits of citizenship (voting, services, health care, immigration and travel benefits) but no sooner than anyone who is taking the legal route.

How long is the wait for citizenship right now if done legally - 5 years? (I'm guessing - I really dont know)

They already get healthcare and service, don't give a damn about voting (they would vote if they could, but they're getting taken care of now without voting, so no big deal), and they dont care about travel benefits - they're here and they dont want to leave.

Where's the incentive here?




Require an English test.

Do the taxpayers foot the bill to send them to school, or do we add that as part of their fine - that they must pay for the english class they have to take?

And if they dont pass the test or refuse to learn? Then what?









You are completely against deportation, yet at the end of the day this is the best tool we have to protect our sovereign border (besides putting the military on the border and shutting it down). If we refuse to use it, then they have already won and our laws are worthless (pretty much what we are seeing now).

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 06:12 PM
There are a few things you have posted that I agree with, but could you elaborate a little on these quotes?





What kind of fine are you thinking - $1,000, $10,000, $100,000?

I'm not sure, it would take a experts who are more familiar with the numbers, statistics, and laws to give an exact number. It should, however, be hefty. Not $100,000, that's ridiculous, a few thousand might be good but that's a rough estimate. With millions of illegals, a few thousand dollars from each adds up to billions of revenue just from the fines alone.





You advocate a large fine, but how will they pay it on their minimum wage job, or when they are unemployed?

If they can hang around for years and make enough money under the table at below-minimum wages to support themselves and to send back to Mexico, they can pay a fine with an increased wage.


Do we give them 10 years to pay it?

Give them some time to pay it, I can't say exactly how long, but they should not get full citizenship benefits until it is paid off. For some, if payment is impossible, many hours of community service would be good, and may reduce how much the government pays it's own employees to do certain kinds of work (cleaning, construction, ect..) saves the government money either way.


What of their status in the meantime - are they still illegal, or do they now have special status?

Temporary work visas, allowing them to legally stay and work, but not as citizens.


do they collect benefits now for unemployment if there are no jobs for them?

Nope. This will be a problem for many, if they are now given minimum wage, which is the main incentive for people to hire them, they will not be employed so much.

Still, the majority of these people work for private individuals doing small-scale manual labor. The fact is, as long as they are willing to do this and people are willing to pay them to mow lawns or build a deck, they are going to still get paid below-minimum-wage. We couldn't enforce this if we wanted to, and they are clearly okay with getting paid less *if they have to*.

However, many of these people are semi-skilled, and only work crap jobs because of their illegal status, with a work visa, they could get jobs working in construction or land-work.

I don't have a perfect plan, and no one will make one, some people will always fall through the cracks and "lose" from legislation, but that's part of the risk they took on by being here illegally so if they cannot find work anymore, and cannot get unemployment checks, they'll have to start wittling some crafts or painting pretty pictures to sell on the side of the road or go back to Mexico.

Also, since they will now be documented, we can have stricter rules for them. Any sort of violent crime or theft or property damage by anyone on a temporary visa would instantly lose their status and ability to qualify for citizenship (and get deported). This is a good way to weed out the bad guys from the simple hard workers.



How do you expect them to get the money to pay their "large fine"?

In 10 years if they haven't paid their fine, do they get a 10 year extension?

After the extension, and they still haven't paid their fine, then what????

They'll do it any way they can, they are a very creative people when it comes to surviving. However, participating in the drug trade or stealing will not be tolerated and anyone attempting to get money this way will be kicked out.

I imagine most will get jobs, continue doing private-contract labor with homeowners, or find ways to create and sell small goods or services. Remember that contract jobs don't need to pay minimum wage, so they can be hired as personal assistants or add some shingles to your roof, and there is always a demand for this.

If they *cannot* pay, they can do community service (that saves money for the state), and a lot of it.

If they refuse to pay their fines or work off their debt by a given period (whatever reasonable limit is set by legislators) then they lose their work status and get deported.







How long is the wait for citizenship right now if done legally - 5 years? (I'm guessing - I really dont know)

This needs to be fixed, it's a very long time and the process is complicated. We need to reform the system to allow more immigrants to come in easily, but at the same time pressure the Mexican government to improve the conditions of their working poor so we don't have a constant overflow.




They already get healthcare and service, don't give a damn about voting (they would vote if they could, but they're getting taken care of now without voting, so no big deal), and they dont care about travel benefits - they're here and they dont want to leave.

Where's the incentive here?

They get emergency treatment, not healthcare. Big difference. They are actually very class conscious and as a result would participate in voting (and tend to be very socially conservative). They do care about travel benefits because they have families in Mexico. That's a big deal to them, hispanic culture is HUGE on family. Also, citizens are able to sponsor immigrants, allowing them easier access into the country as well.

Plus they'll have PERMANENT work status, be eligible for programs like medicare, and be able to get new types of work or even run for public office.







Do the taxpayers foot the bill to send them to school, or do we add that as part of their fine - that they must pay for the english class they have to take?

There are many people who volunteer teaching English as a second language, we can offer english classes but make them pay for it. They have access to libraries, they can learn the language for free if they really want to. Hell they just have to hang out with English speakers for a few months to be able to gain semi-fluency.



And if they dont pass the test or refuse to learn? Then what?

They don't get citizenship status until they do. Most will be able to pass the test, some may be stubborn and will not. Just like a test in the basics of American government and history is required, so should this. Many of these people speak a little English, and the vast majority of 2nd generation Mexican-Americans speak English fluently.

We're talking about people who are willing to stuff themselves in a suitcase and wait in the back of a 130 degree trunk of a car for 5 hours driving across the desert just to get here. I think they can handle a little test.






You are completely against deportation, yet at the end of the day this is the best tool we have to protect our sovereign border (besides putting the military on the border and shutting it down). If we refuse to use it, then they have already won and our laws are worthless (pretty much what we are seeing now).

I'm not completely against deportation. It is a very effective tool, but it shouldn't be the first, the only, or even the primary means of trying to deal with this problem.

For those who are violent, who refuse to follow the rules graciously given to them, who refuse to pay their debt for breaking the law, or otherwise try to fuck around, deport them. It will suck for their kids, but this will be a small minority.

It's like prison, it doesn't just punish the person but it hurts their entire family. We need to realize that every time we use harsh penalties there are far reaching unintended consequences. That doesn't mean we should never use harsh penalties, but if we are just locking up or deporting millions of people when it isn't necessary, the harmful side effects of our actions will outweigh the benefits.

It's like a diet, eating less and being more active is great for your health, but if you take it too far and you starve yourself and strain yourself in the gym you can become seriously ill. Salt is bad, we should eat less of it, but if you cut sodium out of your diet entirely you'll die.

Anything taken to the extreme isn't going to work, that includes trying to deport everyone and also never deporting anyone. We need to be sensible, think in moderation, look at what works, what doesn't, what consequences will arise from our actions, and never look at anything unidimensionally because that's a recipe for failure.

Wei Wu Wei
05-05-2010, 06:20 PM
The question is always "what do we do with those who are here".

I do support very strict enforcement of border laws. Want to put the military on the border? Fine, as long as the Mexican people know that we are friendly to them, and we will let them in legally and easily so long as the Mexican Government gets their own shit together.

Stop the flow of illegals coming in, work to reform the system, but limit the rate at which people can immigrate until Mexico improves their working poor conditions. Once their working poor are able to survive and live a basically decent lifestyle, then open the legal route and allow them to come in.

Just working at this from one angle doesn't work.

Trying to stop the drug problem by simply ENFORCING HARSH LAWS hasn't worked. Marijuana, a schedule 1 drug (along with Meth and Heroin) has been tried by most people. The only thing that has happened from this unidimensional STRICT ENFORCEMENT policy is we funnel over 8 billion dollars every year to Drug Cartels, giving them the means to buy military grade weapons.

Trying to stop prostitution by simply ENFORCING HARSH LAWS hasn't worked. There are still millions of prostitutes and all that has happened is it's been driven underground, diseases like HIV spread like wildfire, women are abused, beaten, and often killed on a regular basis, and the enormous profits go to Pimps, Drug dealers, and domestic gangs.

If we don't snap out of this reactionary way of thinking and policy-making, we're just going to keep getting hit by cars by trying to avoid the dog-shit on the sidewalk.

Rockntractor
05-05-2010, 08:16 PM
Round um up and herd them to the border like Rawhide!:cool:

Lager
05-05-2010, 08:33 PM
This needs to be fixed, it's a very long time and the process is complicated. We need to reform the system to allow more immigrants to come in easily


Do you feel that the system as it is, does not allow enough immigrants to come in now?

patriot45
05-05-2010, 10:00 PM
Round um up and herd them to the border like Rawhide!:cool:

I like that! You summed it up without a boring yawn inducing 50000 word post! Rock for mayor of the mountain!!:D

PoliCon
05-05-2010, 11:15 PM
The law requires a formal declaration or a formal invasion by a Military force. Feeling scared isn't a war.http://unrepentantoldhippie.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/unbranded-bullshit-stamp.jpg

There does not need to be a formal declaration of war for a state of war to exist. You have to have your head shoved pretty far up your own ass to buy a notion as stupid as that. And once again - you attack those of us who don't agree with your assinine point of view and attempt to assign to us the motivation of fear.:rolleyes: it's not fear. It's fact.




Anger is fear buddy. Oh really? You might want to tell that to funk and Wagnel then.

FEAR:

1 a : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion
2 : anxious concern : solicitude
3 : profound reverence and awe especially toward God
4 : reason for alarm : danger

where as ANGER:

1 : a strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism
2 : rage 2

Yup. The exact same definition for both right? FUCKTARD.




I'm a Texan, cowboy.

and yeah I spent a few years right down south near the border now I live in central Texas.

Somehow I survived. You are such a fucking liar. You live in Texas like I live in Texas or like Rock lives in reality.




Oh please, the last time you called me out, claiming that I was lying about reading Glenn Beck's book I posted a picture with a handwritten note saying "Hi Policon". Oh and that proves what? That you know someone who has Becks book??? Even if you do have it - it does not prove that you've read it. You're a known liar. You tell lies all over this board all the fucking time. Why should anyone believe you? If you told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe you.


The whole world is lying to you bro, it's all a big scheme, it's all behind the scenes, only you have the truth, hold onto it with all your strength, never let go, never give in, shine on you crazy diamond. Right because that's exactly what I've been saying. Um hum. Right. Sure. Fucktard.




So the civil rights movement was just a trick by progressives to support their campaigns? Those tricky bastards, we should go back to the good ol days when you knew where you were then...girls were girls and men were men, thooosee were thee dayyysss.Deny it all you like. Before women were given the vote - a mans hair was never a deciding factor in an election. Before Women voted - elections were decided on issues and not on feelings. When only men of property voted you didn't have to worry about people voting themselves funds out of the public coffers and voters were not bought off with social programs and entitlements.




Haha no it doesn't. They commit a non-violent crime, fine the hell out of them, place them in the back of the line for citizenship, and make them learn english. Back of the line? Try out of the line all together. The fact that they have such a complete lack of character clearly shows that they are unworthy of US citizenship. It's bad enough that we have native born scum bags voting. We don't need FOREIGN scum voting as well.





Please elaborate on what you consider "natural law"I use the Founders definition of Natural Law.






The Constitution does not say anything about the parents. The words are "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."and if your parents are foreigners under the jurisdiction of a foreign government then you are not eligible because you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.


We're not talking about naturalization, but someone who is born here. All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States Not according to what you yourself have posted. You keep leaving out the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" phrase.

.




So women shouldn't vote? Or minorities? Just like the Founding Fathers intended?Minorities? The majority of the FF were more than willing to give minorities who owned property the right to vote. You might want to brush up on your colonial and early American history.




You may think it's right but it's still illegal. Says you.




What's radical is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. You want to deport these people but then bitch and whine about the social chaos that comes from millions of children of broken homes grow up. Fining them is hardly rewarding them. Placing them behind all legal immigrants for citizenship is hardly rewarding them. Broken homes? I done told your stupid fucking ass that the kids go WITH THEM. They should not be afforded citizenship because they are the children of an invasion force. Try to keep up here. FUCKTARD. Allowing them to stay here and to sponge off our society IS rewarding them. They get caught - they go home and they don't come back. Period. End of story. They wanna be here legally - they go home now and apply like anyone else. There. You wanna give them amnesty - there is your amnesty. They have 6 months to get back to where ever they came from and apply. Otherwise they will NEVER be permitted to apply.

PoliCon
05-05-2010, 11:17 PM
The question is always "what do we do with those who are here".You give them 6 months to get the fuck out. Wow was that easy. :rolleyes: NEXT QUESTION.

Rockntractor
05-05-2010, 11:30 PM
You give them 6 months to get the fuck out. Wow was that easy. :rolleyes: NEXT QUESTION.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/human_cannonball.jpg?t=1273116546

Wei Wu Wei
05-07-2010, 02:47 AM
You are such a fucking liar. You live in Texas like I live in Texas or like Rock lives in reality.
Oh and that proves what? That you know someone who has Becks book??? Even if you do have it - it does not prove that you've read it. You're a known liar. You tell lies all over this board all the fucking time. Why should anyone believe you? If you told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe you.

Lol okay buddy. be careful I'm all secrets and shadows, shifty and evermoving, like a snake, like a cloud of smoke, like the demons that haunt you at night.

I was born and raised in Texas my good man, hell I graduated from the University of Texas.

Hahaha you know I was going to type a good thorough response to your post until I got to here:



Deny it all you like. Before women were given the vote - a mans hair was never a deciding factor in an election. Before Women voted - elections were decided on issues and not on feelings. When only men of property voted you didn't have to worry about people voting themselves funds out of the public coffers and voters were not bought off with social programs and entitlements.

My kneejerk response was disgust and pity, but that's wrong of me. I'm no better than you are, in fact in the most important ways you and I are the same.

So, I won't sit here and judge you but I realize that I may not be able to articulate myself in a way that will fit with an ideology such as yours, at least not at the moment without a good in depth discussion about the social construction of gender, amongst other things.

Peace brother, I mean it. May you find the subtle joy of life each and every day, and I hope it opens you up and also opens me up so we can see more easily how we're both part of the same miracle.

Sonnabend
05-07-2010, 08:32 AM
Peace brother, I mean it. May you find the subtle joy of life each and every day

http://nextstopwonderland.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hippie.jpg

PoliCon
05-07-2010, 10:37 AM
http://nextstopwonderland.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hippie.jpg

he musta got his hands on some good shit last night . . . . :rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
05-07-2010, 06:18 PM
he musta got his hands on some good shit last night . . . . :rolleyes:

I'm sober buddy, except of course for some beer at dinner and an occasional extra beer or 4 during celebrations and festivities :D.

Wei Wu Wei
05-07-2010, 06:19 PM
http://nextstopwonderland.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hippie.jpg

I hope you see that a sense of inner peace and sublime joy is for all people, not just those labeled as members of a subculture.

PoliCon
05-07-2010, 06:45 PM
I'm sober buddy, except of course for some beer at dinner and an occasional extra beer or 4 during celebrations and festivities :D.

sure - and of course the crackpipe you're always smoking. :rolleyes:

NJCardFan
05-08-2010, 01:48 AM
Back on point. Here's my take on it and how I would handle it and it can be a realistic idea:

For starters, as Glenn Beck put it, we need to shut the water off first meaning we must stem the tide of illegal immigration. That is first and foremost. Reason being is, and keeping with the water theme, you can't replace the leaky pipe until you turn the water off. After that, I have no problem with a guest worker program. Personally, I don't find it realistic to go rounding up illegals, putting them in Greyhounds, and taking them back to Juarez so instituting a guest worker program is a nice alternative. I'm not talking about citizenship, however. This means no welfare, no SS benefits(until they've paid in), and no right to vote. But you have a window of opportunity with no fear of deportation(unless you have a criminal record here in the US). Once you blow that opportunity, you're beat. If you still want to be a citizen, you must go through proper channels but this liberal fantasy of granting citizenship to these people is ridiculous.

Articulate_Ape
05-08-2010, 02:15 AM
Forgive me if I am posting this is the wrong place and mods may move it at will, but this seemed like the right place at the time.

Speaking of timing, this is what Hollywood is spewing into the midst of the illegal immigration debate surrounding AZ...

Machete 2010 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985694/)

(You may need to register on IMBD due to age restrictions. If you don't want to, then watch for future trailers. Supposed to be released in Sept. 2010)

WTF?

NJCardFan
05-08-2010, 02:37 AM
I believe there's a thread dedicated to this. Something about robert Rodriguez being a tool. Hollywood acts like this because they can afford to.

PoliCon
05-08-2010, 07:56 AM
Back on point. Here's my take on it and how I would handle it and it can be a realistic idea:

For starters, as Glenn Beck put it, we need to shut the water off first meaning we must stem the tide of illegal immigration. That is first and foremost. Reason being is, and keeping with the water theme, you can't replace the leaky pipe until you turn the water off. After that, I have no problem with a guest worker program. Personally, I don't find it realistic to go rounding up illegals, putting them in Greyhounds, and taking them back to Juarez so instituting a guest worker program is a nice alternative. I'm not talking about citizenship, however. This means no welfare, no SS benefits(until they've paid in), and no right to vote. But you have a window of opportunity with no fear of deportation(unless you have a criminal record here in the US). Once you blow that opportunity, you're beat. If you still want to be a citizen, you must go through proper channels but this liberal fantasy of granting citizenship to these people is ridiculous.

Juarez? Fuck that. Send them to Tierra del Fuego.

NJCardFan
05-08-2010, 10:52 AM
Juarez? Fuck that. Send them to Tierra del Fuego.
Better yet, send them here...

http://members.tripod.com/~HORROR_guide/dusk2_pg.jpg

Wei Wu Wei
05-08-2010, 11:02 AM
Forgive me if I am posting this is the wrong place and mods may move it at will, but this seemed like the right place at the time.

Speaking of timing, this is what Hollywood is spewing into the midst of the illegal immigration debate surrounding AZ...

Machete 2010 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985694/)

(You may need to register on IMBD due to age restrictions. If you don't want to, then watch for future trailers. Supposed to be released in Sept. 2010)

WTF?


lmao Machete came about as part of a fan contest to produce the funniest fake movie advertisement to be part of the Theater premier of the Rodriguez-Tarentino double-feature debute of Grind House

Machete was the funniest fake movie ad, so it won the contest, and was made into a feature film.

This has been in the making since 2007

Wei Wu Wei
05-08-2010, 11:03 AM
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIV26nu24gw


Also this was the most hilarious thing ever.

Wei Wu Wei
05-08-2010, 11:06 AM
Better yet, send them here...

http://members.tripod.com/~HORROR_guide/dusk2_pg.jpg

bahhahaha!

Yes!

another hilarious Rodriguez-Tarentino film

Articulate_Ape
05-08-2010, 09:50 PM
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIV26nu24gw


Also this was the most hilarious thing ever.

I did not know that. If what you say is true, then I am relieved; because if it was real, it would not be funny.