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Kay
05-01-2010, 10:04 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...for-numskulls/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...for-numskulls/)

NUGENT: Immigration lesson for numskulls
Arizona is leading, America should follow

By Ted Nugent

In the absence of any real border enforcement by Fedzilla and after the emergency of the recent murder of rancher Robert Krentz, Arizonans rightfully took matters into their own hands and passed a law allowing Arizona cops to demand immigration papers from people they stop.

Good for Arizona. Other states, especially border states, should follow its lead. In short, Arizona's new law makes it a crime to be in Arizona illegally. It's 2010 - Good morning, America! Those people who can't produce documentation proving they are in the country legally can be jailed up to six months and fined $2,500.

Of course, the pro-illegal-immigration crowd is going berserk that Arizona has done such a common-sense thing. These Democratic numskulls see any immigration reform measures that seek to protect our border as a threat to their future political base. You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that the grand plan of the Democrats is to entrap illegal immigrants by giving them legal status and then enslave and destroy them with numerous Fedzilla handouts and programs.

Pro-illegal-immigration weasels are protesting and yammering that this new law will lead to profiling. President Obama has weighed in and asked the Justice Department to review Arizona's new law to see if it is legal.

Unbelievably, while our borders are largely open and being overrun, the Obama administration recently lectured Israel about expanding its communities just a few feet on land that arguably is its to expand upon.

While I applaud Arizona for its bold and brave new law, putting illegals in jail is the wrong move. That costs too much. I say Arizona should follow its own American hero, Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County.

Sheriff Arpaio keeps crooks in a large outdoor holding facility and makes them sleep in tents. Among other things, he feeds them bologna sandwiches. I hope they are not fresh.

My good friend Sheriff Arpaio's common-sense policies and practices drive the American Civil Liberties Union and other leftist numskulls batty. He puts smiles on the faces of Americans who still believe that pragmatism and common sense should rule the day.

Indeed, something needs to be done about illegal immigration and the 12 million to 15 million illegals who already are in America and causing a tremendous financial burden on states because of their abuse of the states' social services and criminal justice programs. Hospitals in California and other states have closed, and jails and prisons in border states are upward of 40 percent full of illegals.

The invasion roils on.

Hospitals and social-service agencies should follow Arizona's lead and require that those seeking services provide proof of legal residence. American taxpayers should not be required to pay for providing medical or any other services to illegal immigrants. Making us do so is the ultimate definition of insanity.

What America shouldn't do is continue to ignore the protection of our borders. There is a growing sentiment among governors of border states that we should call out the National Guard to help secure our borders. Makes sense to me.

Both Republicans and Democrats have made immigration blunders in the past. We should learn from those mistakes and endeavor not to make the same mistakes again.

I support an open, frank and transparent debate on immigration. Let's lay all the cards on the table and hear from all sides. I say we start with a simple admonition from President Reagan: A nation without borders will soon cease to be a nation.

Good for Arizona. It is refreshing to see that common sense still rules the day somewhere.

Ted Nugent is an unstoppable American rock 'n' roll, sporting and political activist icon. He is author of "Ted, White & Blue: The Nugent Manifesto" and "God, Guns and Rock 'N' Roll" (Regnery Publishing).

noonwitch
05-03-2010, 11:44 AM
I'm all for enforcement of immigration laws. I totally support efforts to improve border patrol and so on. There are humanitarian reasons for opposing illegal immigration-if people are here illegally, they are easily exploited.

I'm not sure I'm thrilled with a state legislature putting racial profiling into law to address the issue. I live in a northern border state-we don't have the large numbers of illegal immigrants to worry about the same way Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas have. I'm not going to fully judge it though until it's put into practice, and see if it's abused by law enforcement. That's my main concern.

NJCardFan
05-03-2010, 02:50 PM
2 words: reasonable suspicion.

Lager
05-03-2010, 03:03 PM
I'm all for enforcement of immigration laws. I totally support efforts to improve border patrol and so on. There are humanitarian reasons for opposing illegal immigration-if people are here illegally, they are easily exploited.

I'm not sure I'm thrilled with a state legislature putting racial profiling into law to address the issue. I live in a northern border state-we don't have the large numbers of illegal immigrants to worry about the same way Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas have. I'm not going to fully judge it though until it's put into practice, and see if it's abused by law enforcement. That's my main concern.

I worked in Law Enforcement while an active duty NCO at Vandenberg AFB in California. Many trains traveled thru the base, so illegal immigrants turned up quite often. If I ran across a group of hispanic looking persons. walking in a remote part of the base, dressed a particular way and away from most facilities, I would usually stop and detain them and if they were illegals, contact Border Patrol. I had no reason to worry about the multitude of hispanics shopping in the commisary, playing in the housing area, working at the clinic, going to the movies, etc. I don't ever recall a time when I stopped a legal resident or citizen. The law will only be abused if cops want it abused, and I think the majority of LE officials are honest and honorable.

Adam Wood
05-04-2010, 01:07 AM
I'm all for enforcement of immigration laws. I totally support efforts to improve border patrol and so on. There are humanitarian reasons for opposing illegal immigration-if people are here illegally, they are easily exploited.

I'm not sure I'm thrilled with a state legislature putting racial profiling into law to address the issue. I live in a northern border state-we don't have the large numbers of illegal immigrants to worry about the same way Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas have. I'm not going to fully judge it though until it's put into practice, and see if it's abused by law enforcement. That's my main concern.That's not happening. It's not going to happen. It was never going to happen. The entirety of the "racial profiling" screech is a myth.

Molon Labe
05-04-2010, 08:14 AM
That's not happening. It's not going to happen. It was never going to happen. The entirety of the "racial profiling" screech is a myth.

:rolleyes:

AZ Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica)


I agree with Noonwitch on this one for obvious factual reasons. And this guys an American Citizen.

Kay
05-04-2010, 08:31 AM
I very strongly support racial profiling, behavior profiling, gender profiling, and every
other kind of profiling out there. It is merely another tool that law enforcement can
and should use, just like any other piece of equipment they carry.

Adam Wood
05-04-2010, 09:23 AM
:rolleyes:

AZ Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica)


I agree with Noonwitch on this one for obvious factual reasons. And this guys an American Citizen.He can claim whatever the fuck he wants to. This was ICE, not Arizona cops, who demanded his birth certificate.

SURPRISE! ICE/INS has had that specific legal ability for seventy years.


This has not one piddly damned thing to do with the Arizona law, except to show that the Arizona law restricts their officers from just picking brown people out of a crowd.


And I don't care if this guy was a Founding Father: he should have had the correct information on him in the first place.

Molon Labe
05-04-2010, 02:50 PM
And I don't care if this guy was a Founding Father: he should have had the correct information on him in the first place.

The founder's would have never required it in the first place.
but you said it wouldn't happen and yet it does and probably will, and that's the point....we consevatives, including guys like Ken Cuccinelli fought damn hard in this state to keep things like Real I.D out of law, but it's "conservatives" like you that get these ideas traction.......so, pardon my interruption while the slobberfest over federal government regulations continues.

NJCardFan
05-04-2010, 03:04 PM
2 words: reasonable suspicion.

I'm going to keep repeating this until it sinks in. The law does not state that LE officers can, as Obama put it, stop a father taking his kid to get ice cream because they think he might be illegal. The asking for documentation can only be done in the process of performing another law enforcement act like pulling someone over or arresting someone. And even then there has to be reasonable suspicion. So stop listening to the leftist media who is intentionally skewing the information to fit their agenda. Try reading the law first.http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/sb1070s.pdf

lacarnut
05-04-2010, 03:23 PM
I very strongly support racial profiling, behavior profiling, gender profiling, and every
other kind of profiling out there. It is merely another tool that law enforcement can
and should use, just like any other piece of equipment they carry.

Sounds good to me. Like I have said before; a gringo that goes south of the border can/will be asked to show his papers any frigging time the authorities decide they want to see them. Give them some lip and you can expect an ass whipping/ jail time/fine and deportation all in short order.

noonwitch
05-04-2010, 04:20 PM
That's not happening. It's not going to happen. It was never going to happen. The entirety of the "racial profiling" screech is a myth.


I was just discussing this with one of my coworkers, who is a law student. She asked me what I thought, then went into a long explaination of what constitutes probable cause. She thinks 1. The law is Arizona's way of telling the federal government they are not doing their job and 2. when the federal government passes their own immigration bill, it will supercede the Arizona law anyway. She's politically neutral, as far as the liberal/conservative divide goes.

Rebel Yell
05-04-2010, 04:43 PM
Racial profiling works. I'm sorry. Yeah, some innocent people are inconvenienced. I've been racially profiled. I was white on the wrong side of the tracks. Luckily, I knew how to talk to the fuzz. They asked me where I was going and what was I up to. I told them I was going to pick up my girlfriend, which was true. Luckily, they didn't search the vehicle or they would have found the ounce of dope in the glove box. That's how I know racial profiling works.

jediab
05-05-2010, 10:31 AM
If people think that their rights are being violated by this law, why aren't they up in arms over the TSA? They ask for more than just "your papers". They can violate you in ways that would require either an arrest or a search warrant.

Molon Labe
05-05-2010, 04:04 PM
Racial profiling works. I'm sorry. Yeah, some innocent people are inconvenienced. I've been racially profiled. I was white on the wrong side of the tracks. Luckily, I knew how to talk to the fuzz. They asked me where I was going and what was I up to. I told them I was going to pick up my girlfriend, which was true. Luckily, they didn't search the vehicle or they would have found the ounce of dope in the glove box. That's how I know racial profiling works.

The sad part is you are right. I appreciate the way you phrase things like this and your level headedness. At least your honest about it and don't suggest that it's the American way. I always like reading your posts.


If people think that their rights are being violated by this law, why aren't they up in arms over the TSA? They ask for more than just "your papers". They can violate you in ways that would require either an arrest or a search warrant.

Who says they aren't?

It's like all laws that lessen freedoms incrementally. After a few here and there most people just become apathetic and say wtf. Think gun laws and how they've completely changed the entire language and playing field for "gun rights" and you'll have a pretty good idea. Most people just don't care, which is entirely the reason Jefferson said that ignorance, apathy and freedom don't mix.