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Gingersnap
05-26-2010, 10:42 AM
Updated May 24, 2010
John Mark Karr Re-Emerges to Form a JonBenet Cult
By Ed Barnes
- FOXNews.com

John Mark Karr, known and reviled for his false confession in the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty princess JonBenet Ramsey, has re-emerged on the Internet in a bizarre and much more terrifying role. And a manhunt is under way.

He's baaaaack . . . And he's stranger than ever.

When the world first saw John Mark Karr in 2006, he was being led to a plane in handcuffs in Thailand after confessing falsely, it turned out to the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty princess JonBenet Ramsey.

When the world last saw him, in 2008, he was also being led away in handcuffs after being arrested in a domestic dispute with his girlfriend at his parents' house in Atlanta.

Two years later, Karr is back the subject of an unofficial nationwide manhunt being conducted on Twitter, Facebook and other places on the Web that is as strange and intense as the man or woman himself.

Police in Seattle and San Francisco are also looking for him or, perhaps, her, because Karr claims he has had a sex change operation in the past two years and now goes by the name of Alexis Valoran Reich, or, occasionally, "Delia Alexis Reich."

Or perhaps that's just a ruse, Karr posing as a woman to avoid being recognized. A Facebook page, recently removed, showed him as a woman in his profile picture, and he has reportedly been taking hormones in preparation for a sex-change operation.

The accusation this time is that Karr, 46, a reputed pedophile who married a 13-year-old and later a 16-year-old in the 1980s, has been trying to create a cult of JonBenet Ramsey lookalikes he is calling "the Immaculates" blond girls as young as 4 years old with small feet and has been threatening harm to one of the girls, whom he used to recruit others and who escaped from his influence.

The news of the cult and the fresh accusations come from 19-year-old Samantha Spiegel, who says she met Karr when she was 9 and he was a teacher's aide at the elite Convent of the Sacred Heart Catholic School in San Francisco, where he briefly taught her fourth-grade class.

Spiegel says they reconnected two years ago after she saw Karr on television at a court hearing and contacted him. That began an intense relationship over the Web that involved thousands of e-mails, which she says convinced her she was special to him and was destined to recruit his "Immaculates."

More at the link.

Fox (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/24/john-mark-karr-emerges-form-jonbenet-cult/)

lacarnut
05-26-2010, 10:51 AM
A bullet between the eyes is too good for this POS.

noonwitch
05-26-2010, 11:07 AM
A bullet between the eyes is too good for this POS.


I think a stake through the heart might be better, at least for the killer, if he ends up facing charges. At least then he can claim insanity, that he was killing a vampire. The right jury might even agree, even if this guy is a figurative vampire, not a literal one.

FlaGator
05-26-2010, 12:40 PM
Other than issuing some terroristic threats, it doesn't seem that his has done anything illegal... yet. He is a pathological liar and is completely creepy and weird but I don't think that those are crime worthy of death.

noonwitch
05-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Other than issuing some terroristic threats, it doesn't seem that his has done anything illegal... yet. He is a pathological liar and is completely creepy and weird but I don't think that those are crime worthy of death.


I was joking, but you are right. The guy probably needs therapy and medication, and a family to support him emotionally.

Wei Wu Wei
05-26-2010, 01:19 PM
As opposed to a sane pedophile...

Gingersnap
05-26-2010, 01:26 PM
As opposed to a sane pedophile...

Sure. Wanting to have sex with powerless, easily manipulated partners isn't particularly insane - revolting and distasteful but not insane.

What's insane is becoming fixated on a dead girl, making a false confession in a sensational crime, and then getting a pair of Thai bolt-ons in order to feed your sexual fetish. That's insane.

Wei Wu Wei
05-26-2010, 01:29 PM
Sure. Wanting to have sex with powerless, easily manipulated partners isn't particularly insane - revolting and distasteful but not insane.

What's insane is becoming fixated on a dead girl, making a false confession in a sensational crime, and then getting a pair of Thai bolt-ons in order to feed your sexual fetish. That's insane.

Well this guy sure knocks it out of the park in the crazy game, but real pedophiles do have a mental disorder (keep in mind that real pedophilia is more than just a thought or fantasy now and then, but a real fixation on children and an inability to find sexual release from appropriate sources)

fettpett
05-26-2010, 02:08 PM
Well this guy sure knocks it out of the park in the crazy game, but real pedophiles do have a mental disorder (keep in mind that real pedophilia is more than just a thought or fantasy now and then, but a real fixation on children and an inability to find sexual release from appropriate sources)

yeah, you and the American psychological association and take that view and shove it:mad:

Space Gravy
05-26-2010, 06:22 PM
Damn, time flies. Reading the article and doing a little quick math that kid would be 20 now.

PoliCon
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Sure. Wanting to have sex with powerless, easily manipulated partners isn't particularly insane - revolting and distasteful but not insane.
I have to disagree. Pedophilia most definitely is not sane.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
05-27-2010, 04:30 AM
It'd be nice if we had a "Blade Runner"-esque special squad dedicated to tracking down people like this guy or serial killers or serial rapists--Like the real sick bastards. Just a special class of heartless bounty hunters who work for the local PD or FBI, possibly trained in Psychology or whatever and specialize in hunting these guys down.

I read about his little website, and took a look at it myself--why don't they just trace the IP of Karr's website and get him that way?

Sonnabend
05-27-2010, 04:55 AM
I read about his little website, and took a look at it myself--why don't they just trace the IP of Karr's website and get him that way?

..would anyone like to explain to Mr SuperGenius here just what is wrong with his question? :rolleyes:

CaughtintheMiddle1990
05-27-2010, 05:02 AM
..would anyone like to explain to Mr SuperGenius here just what is wrong with his question? :rolleyes:

He could be using proxies, or such, sure--Perhaps maybe even uses public computers such as those at libraries. But certainly with the FBI or Police Department's resources, such proxies could be broken through, or the IPs of public library computers could be used to at least begin a track down of him. I'm not big on tech stuff, so maybe there's just some element I'm not seeing but I mean with the money and resources of the government how could a guy be flagrantly right out there, laughing in their faces with a public website and not be found?

If it's that he hasn't committed any verifiable crime YET, then at least get a zero on his probable location to monitor him closely and maybe bring him in for questioning.

noonwitch
05-27-2010, 08:36 AM
It'd be nice if we had a "Blade Runner"-esque special squad dedicated to tracking down people like this guy or serial killers or serial rapists--Like the real sick bastards. Just a special class of heartless bounty hunters who work for the local PD or FBI, possibly trained in Psychology or whatever and specialize in hunting these guys down.

I read about his little website, and took a look at it myself--why don't they just trace the IP of Karr's website and get him that way?



This is the favorite discussion topic of Sex Crime detectives and CPS workers when they socialize after work.

fettpett
05-27-2010, 08:39 AM
He could be using proxies, or such, sure--Perhaps maybe even uses public computers such as those at libraries. But certainly with the FBI or Police Department's resources, such proxies could be broken through, or the IPs of public library computers could be used to at least begin a track down of him. I'm not big on tech stuff, so maybe there's just some element I'm not seeing but I mean with the money and resources of the government how could a guy be flagrantly right out there, laughing in their faces with a public website and not be found?

If it's that he hasn't committed any verifiable crime YET, then at least get a zero on his probable location to monitor him closely and maybe bring him in for questioning.

tracking an IP like in the movies is just as stupid as anything else in the movies. The IP address wont show anything more than where the server that the site is stored on. The IP of a person logging in can be figured out, but between proxies and being physically in another Country isn't going to do the LE's any good. Having a website dedicated to his stuff isn't illegal unless it's showing directly a criminal act and even then it's a legal grey area if it's not the person hosting the site.

It's actually pretty easy to run a site and not be found.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
05-27-2010, 01:25 PM
..would anyone like to explain to Mr SuperGenius here just what is wrong with his question? :rolleyes:


This is the favorite discussion topic of Sex Crime detectives and CPS workers when they socialize after work.

I meant people whose jobs were more to hunt and kill these sorts of people.

Gingersnap
05-27-2010, 01:50 PM
I meant people whose jobs were more to hunt and kill these sorts of people.

I hate to break it to you but here in the U.S. that whole "hunt them/kill them" thing pretty much exists only in comic book form. :p

FlaGator
05-27-2010, 01:56 PM
I meant people whose jobs were more to hunt and kill these sorts of people.

That is very unconstitutional and extremely unrealistic. Once people have jobs to hunt pedophiles and kill them who's to say that they don't start doing the same to murderers next, then thiefs, then shoplifters, then jaywalkers, then speeders, etc, etc, etc.

BTW, some contries do have people that do jobs like this. They go by the generic name of Secret Police.

lacarnut
05-27-2010, 02:20 PM
I meant people whose jobs were more to hunt and kill these sorts of people.

You have inside info on this outfit or are you FOS as usual.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
05-27-2010, 03:39 PM
You have inside info on this outfit or are you FOS as usual.

Never said any such outfit existed, I said I wish it did. I don't believe in rehabilitation or even prison for child molesters.

Wei Wu Wei
05-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Never said any such outfit existed, I said I wish it did. I don't believe in rehabilitation or even prison for child molesters.

This is so reactionary based on our moral standards. Everyone considers child molestation wrong, disgusting, and needs to be punishable, but when people start with the WE NEED TO LINE THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM IN THE KNEES AND QUARTER THEM WITH HORSES AND DROWN THEIR REMAINS IN LEMON JUICE AND CLOROX are jsut crazy

torture fetishists trying to find an outlet. serial killers and murders get prison, pedophiles who have not actually ever harmed a child (such as people with child porn stashes) actually CAN be rehabilitated, and options like chemical castration are available for real child molesters.

our moral outrage shouldn't be a standard for legal punishments.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
05-27-2010, 04:27 PM
This is so reactionary based on our moral standards. Everyone considers child molestation wrong, disgusting, and needs to be punishable, but when people start with the WE NEED TO LINE THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM IN THE KNEES AND QUARTER THEM WITH HORSES AND DROWN THEIR REMAINS IN LEMON JUICE AND CLOROX are jsut crazy

torture fetishists trying to find an outlet. serial killers and murders get prison, pedophiles who have not actually ever harmed a child (such as people with child porn stashes) actually CAN be rehabilitated, and options like chemical castration are available for real child molesters.

our moral outrage shouldn't be a standard for legal punishments.

''Based on our moral standards..." there we go with the moral relativism.
People with child porn ARE harming children, albeit indirectly. They are, by not attempting to turn over what they've viewed to the authorities and maybe help the authorities catch the film-makers, abetting child molesters, or at the very least, enabling them to molest children and make films of it. It's like someone watching a rape take place and not reporting the rapist to the authorities. Are they directly harming the victim? No. But they're allowing other victims to potentially be raped or hurt by not giving evidence to help put the rapist away and thus are almost like accessories after the fact.

Why should serial killers, who are the true ''torture fetishists'', serve prison time, why not execute them? They killed, multiple people, and yet the tax payers will now have the burden of paying for their food, their general maintenance and possible medical care, in essence one's tax dollars are going toward helping a mass murderer live a long life in prison. How is that just?

And murderers I would say are a much more unclear area. What kind of murderers are we talking about? Pre-meditated, cold blooded murderers? Those who kill in the heat of passion? In self defense? Hit men? Organized criminals? With just plain ''murderers'' there's far too many variables.

And you think chemical castration isn't barbaric, but just shooting them is? They can be both means of torture. One's psychologist torture, I mean no sane man would want to be castrated and live with that, and the other I suppose is physical--But I don't think a shot to the head can be considered torture since it usually results medically in a very rapid almost instant death.

And there is no such thing as a child porn stashe. A regular porn stash, sure.

Gingersnap
05-27-2010, 04:39 PM
This is so reactionary based on our moral standards.

LMAO! Sorry - I wish I'd been drinking when I read that. :p

PoliCon
05-27-2010, 08:23 PM
BTW, some contries do have people that do jobs like this. They go by the generic name of Secret Police.:eek: I wanna join the CU seekrit po-po!!!

PoliCon
05-27-2010, 08:26 PM
This is so reactionary based on our moral standards. Everyone considers child molestation wrong, disgusting, and needs to be punishable, but when people start with the WE NEED TO LINE THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM IN THE KNEES AND QUARTER THEM WITH HORSES AND DROWN THEIR REMAINS IN LEMON JUICE AND CLOROX are jsut crazy

torture fetishists trying to find an outlet. serial killers and murders get prison, pedophiles who have not actually ever harmed a child (such as people with child porn stashes) actually CAN be rehabilitated, and options like chemical castration are available for real child molesters.

our moral outrage shouldn't be a standard for legal punishments.

do you ever stop being a fucktard? Would you please take your head out of your ass and shove your moral relativism up it?

Wei Wu Wei
05-27-2010, 09:55 PM
''Based on our moral standards..." there we go with the moral relativism.

Yes there are different standards of morality across cultures and through time.



People with child porn ARE harming children, albeit indirectly. They are, by not attempting to turn over what they've viewed to the authorities and maybe help the authorities catch the film-makers, abetting child molesters, or at the very least, enabling them to molest children and make films of it. It's like someone watching a rape take place and not reporting the rapist to the authorities. Are they directly harming the victim? No. But they're allowing other victims to potentially be raped or hurt by not giving evidence to help put the rapist away and thus are almost like accessories after the fact.

What if someone sees a video of a rape (which is what child porn is), albiet in adult form. If someone watches a video of a rape taking place I personally feel as it seems you do that they should report the video, but is seeing the video of the crime the same as allowing a crime in progress to happen or actually committing the crime yourself? I think those are all wrong, but different in terms of how they should be treated legally.

think about how many videos there are on youtube showing street fights, should anyone who sees one report it to the police for assault? clearly these are different levels of crimes being witnessed but does the logic follow?



Why should serial killers, who are the true ''torture fetishists'', serve prison time, why not execute them? They killed, multiple people, and yet the tax payers will now have the burden of paying for their food, their general maintenance and possible medical care, in essence one's tax dollars are going toward helping a mass murderer live a long life in prison. How is that just?

I'm a bit iffy on the death penalty, but I think whether the Government has the right to kill a person who isn't a DIRECT IMMEDIATE THREAT (like in a warzone, or a police shootout) is a question we should think very seriously about.


And murderers I would say are a much more unclear area. What kind of murderers are we talking about? Pre-meditated, cold blooded murderers? Those who kill in the heat of passion? In self defense? Hit men? Organized criminals? With just plain ''murderers'' there's far too many variables.

Again, I'm unsure about how I feel concerning the death penalty but I'm sure if it 's allowed at all it should only be done in the most extreme cases. For example, I wasn't shedding any tears when Tim McVeigh was pumped full of poison.


And you think chemical castration isn't barbaric, but just shooting them is? They can be both means of torture. One's psychologist torture, I mean no sane man would want to be castrated and live with that, and the other I suppose is physical--But I don't think a shot to the head can be considered torture since it usually results medically in a very rapid almost instant death.

If the person is a dangerous sexual predator (especially towards children), they show a likelihood of attacking more children and their prison sentence is about to be up, then I support chemical castration as a means of preventing them from harming any more children.

Keep in mind that not every 'sexual predator' in legal terms is a dangerous threat. In some states a high school senior (18) dating another girl at his school a few year younger than himself can get him slapped with the label of sex offender. Someone like this shouldn't be left to rot in prison for life or given the death penalty when a 48 year old man can legally take advantage of an immature 18 year old.


And there is no such thing as a child porn stashe. A regular porn stash, sure.

Well whatever it is you hear about when sickos get hauled off for their illegal porn.

Wei Wu Wei
05-27-2010, 09:58 PM
For the moral absolutists: slavery is not condemned in the Bible, and there are many references to slavery in it. Is slavery wrong? If so, and morality isn't relative, then it was wrong back then, and if it was wrong back then, God knew about it, so why does the Bible say nothing about it? Other than supporting it via instructions on how to treat slaves?

Gingersnap
05-27-2010, 11:07 PM
LMAO! Sorry - I wish I'd been drinking when I read that. :p

Now I am drinking and these assertions are still foolish.

PoliCon
05-27-2010, 11:14 PM
For the moral absolutists: slavery is not condemned in the Bible, and there are many references to slavery in it. Is slavery wrong? If so, and morality isn't relative, then it was wrong back then, and if it was wrong back then, God knew about it, so why does the Bible say nothing about it? Other than supporting it via instructions on how to treat slaves?

The bible recognizes that slavery exists and gives direction on conduct with regards to the institution - does it ONCE recommend slavery? :rolleyes: references are not recommendations. Fucktard.

Wei Wu Wei
05-28-2010, 03:19 AM
The bible recognizes that slavery exists and gives direction on conduct with regards to the institution - does it ONCE recommend slavery? :rolleyes: references are not recommendations. Fucktard.

it also recognizes that all sorts of evil behavior exists and it strongly warns against it and specifically says to avoid it, why not slavery? it was common back then, everyone and God knew about it, and if it is an evil institution why wasn't it condemned?

the bible goes as far as to warn against eating certain animals and knitting certain fabrics, but it's advice on slavery is to be a good slave and good master?

PoliCon
05-28-2010, 09:57 AM
it also recognizes that all sorts of evil behavior exists and it strongly warns against it and specifically says to avoid it, why not slavery? it was common back then, everyone and God knew about it, and if it is an evil institution why wasn't it condemned?

the bible goes as far as to warn against eating certain animals and knitting certain fabrics, but it's advice on slavery is to be a good slave and good master?

Show one example of scripture encouraging or validating slavery. Until then - shut the fuck up. :rolleyes:

AmPat
05-28-2010, 11:14 AM
Well this guy sure knocks it out of the park in the crazy game, but real pedophiles do have a mental disorder (keep in mind that real pedophilia is more than just a thought or fantasy now and then, but a real fixation on children and an inability to find sexual release from appropriate sources)

Cutting his nuts off would help "release" him sexualy.

Sonnabend
05-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Well this guy sure knocks it out of the park in the crazy game, but real pedophiles do have a mental disorder (keep in mind that real pedophilia is more than just a thought or fantasy now and then, but a real fixation on children and an inability to find sexual release from appropriate sources)

It can be cured, strangely enough. Firing squad at dawn....solved. ;)

lacarnut
05-28-2010, 03:31 PM
It can be cured, strangely enough. Firing squad at dawn....solved. ;)

Right.Some people just need killing.

Arroyo_Doble
05-28-2010, 03:42 PM
And here I thought the next major religion to evolve would be around Elvis Presley.

Wei Wu Wei
05-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Show one example of scripture encouraging or validating slavery. Until then - shut the fuck up. :rolleyes:

How about a few more than one?

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

Leviticus 25:48-53 "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Numbers 31:28-47 "And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord."

Exodus 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 24:7 "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."

II Kings 4:1 "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the Lord: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."

Exodus 20:10 "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."

PoliCon
05-28-2010, 06:33 PM
How about a few more than one?

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

Leviticus 25:48-53 "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Numbers 31:28-47 "And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord."

Exodus 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 24:7 "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."

II Kings 4:1 "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the Lord: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."

Exodus 20:10 "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."

Not one of those advocates taking slaves. Not one. Try again. :rolleyes: It always amuses when a total fucktard who doesn't know shit about a topic - in this case Christianity - tries to tell someone who knows the topic about said topic.

Gingersnap
05-28-2010, 08:08 PM
This link might prove enlightening for him: Slave (http://www.biblereferenceguide.com/keywords/bondservant.html)

Let me know when we get to the New Covenant part of the thread. :rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
05-28-2010, 08:26 PM
Not one of those advocates taking slaves. Not one. Try again. :rolleyes: It always amuses when a total fucktard who doesn't know shit about a topic - in this case Christianity - tries to tell someone who knows the topic about said topic.

They validate slavery, through acknowledging it as a legitimate institution and giving advice about it. Validate, as you requested.

Wei Wu Wei
05-28-2010, 08:28 PM
The Bible speaks of evil institutions, such as those imposed in the Book of Revalations with clear warnings against partaking in them. The Bible speaks of sin, something well established with clear warning about avoiding temptations to sin.

Where does it ever say that slavery, itself as an institution is wrong and you should not participate in it?

Gingersnap
05-28-2010, 08:36 PM
They validate slavery, through acknowledging it as a legitimate institution and giving advice about it. Validate, as you requested.

Have you read this thing? They validate plenty of things by acknowledging that such things exist and giving advice about them.

This thread is starting to stray pretty far from the topic.

Wei Wu Wei
05-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Have you read this thing? They validate plenty of things by acknowledging that such things exist and giving advice about them.

This thread is starting to stray pretty far from the topic.

Yes perhaps a separate thread on moral relativism would be better, I don't want to derail it any further I'll stop here.

PoliCon
05-28-2010, 09:02 PM
They validate slavery, through acknowledging it as a legitimate institution and giving advice about it. Validate, as you requested.

the validate the EXISTENCE of slavery not the institution. They do not legitimize slavery - only give proper conduct for people involved in it. For someone who claims to understand subtleties of meaning you're awful fucking thick.

Gingersnap
05-28-2010, 09:04 PM
the validate the EXISTENCE of slavery not the institution. For someone who claims to understand subtleties of meaning you're awful fucking thick.

Okay - back off. We're returning to the original topic here. ;)

PoliCon
05-28-2010, 09:04 PM
The Bible speaks of evil institutions, such as those imposed in the Book of Revalations with clear warnings against partaking in them. The Bible speaks of sin, something well established with clear warning about avoiding temptations to sin.

Where does it ever say that slavery, itself as an institution is wrong and you should not participate in it?

Christ himself said that the Temple was corrupt and yet he praised the widow who threw her mite into the treasury. :rolleyes:

PoliCon
05-28-2010, 09:05 PM
Okay - back off. We're returning to the original topic here. ;)

:p spoil sport :p

Gingersnap
05-28-2010, 09:09 PM
:p spoil sport :p

Somebody will make a new thread, I'm sure. :p