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Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 08:22 PM
Your "hero" has yet another death to add to the growing pile of corpses in his wake. (http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/08/26230.htm)


PHOENIX (CN) - A man died from a brain hemorrhage after Sheriff Joe Arpaio's officers refused to give him his anti-seizure medication and put him in a cell with a concrete floor and walls, his daughters say.

The family says the Sheriff's Department knew of Joseph Phillippi's medical history because he had suffered multiple seizures when he was denied his medication during a previous incarceration.1. They knew of his condition
1. They refused him the necessary medication.


Phillippi had been arrested for trespassing and was taken to the Fourth Avenue Jail after he was found unconscious, shaking and convulsing in a woman's yard, his daughters say in the federal complaint.He had a seizure in a woman's yard and instead of taking him to hospital, they threw him in jail.


They say their father did not receive emergency treatment until almost an hour and a half after he suffered the seizure and slammed his head against the concrete floor. Phillippi had been prescribed Keppra, an anti-seizure medication, his daughters say.A seizure is a medical emergency requiring IMMEDIATE medical attention.


After Phillippi's seizure, officers "opted to accept transport within 30 minutes without lights and sirens" instead of seeking emergency care to expedite his release, his daughters say.Seizure, unconscious, head injury...right, drive him slowly with no lights and sirens...your FUCKING HERO did this. Is this acceptable conduct????


By the time Southwest Ambulance arrived at the jail, P hillippi "was not oriented to place or time, was dazed, tremulous, and diaphoretic." According to the complaint, Arpaio's officers use a "quick release" procedure "to dump inmates with significant and emergent medical conditions so that any emergency medical provision would become the financial responsibility of the 'released' inmate rather than the county."Dazed, tremulous means shaky, diaphoretic means he was sweating, cold and clammy....classic signs of shock which , guess what,..is ANOTHER medical emergency requiring immediate attention.


Even though Phillippi was injured during his incarceration, Arpaio's medical staff "told the ambulance dispatch that this was a 'private' call, and approved the 30-minute response time" though Phillippi "needed immediate medical care," according to the complaint.Can anyone here spell "criminal neglect"? Negligent homicide?


Sara and Angela Phillippi seek punitive damages for wrongful death and negligence. They are represented by Joel B. Robbins and Anne F. Findling with Robbins and Curtin.Arpaio's jail, his people, his command, his responsibility.

Articulate_Ape
05-29-2010, 08:49 PM
More peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the others.

djones520
05-29-2010, 08:56 PM
More peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the others.

That made me laugh.

Reading all this though, it seems the only source of information is an angry and grieving daughter. I'm gonna wait till actual facts come out before passing judgement.

Big Guy
05-29-2010, 09:43 PM
The Officer's don't decide whether the Ambulance uses Lights and Sirens, that is the decision of the Medical Professional's that crew the Ambulance.

There is a Federal requirement to have a Nurse on staff 24/7 for the purpose of making medical decisions such as this. If there was a Nurse on duty it was that person's responsibility. If there was not, he might want to get out his check book and he might need to be concerned about his own freedom.

As the Sheriff, he IS ultimately responsible, but not necessarily liable.

lacarnut
05-29-2010, 09:54 PM
More peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the others.

Youse being a smart ass or sumptin.:)

Poor Sonna; he is going to get his bowels in an uproar over this.

Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 09:58 PM
The Officer's don't decide whether the Ambulance uses Lights and Sirens, that is the decision of the Medical Professional's that crew the Ambulance.From what the report says, looks like they didnt tell the crew they had a seizure patient with head injuries :rolleyes:

Had they done so.............


Poor Sonna; he is going to get his bowels in an uproar over this.

Not really, but I will add this caveat...had this been a military prison or had this been a US military person, this would be headline news....sometimes I just dont get the US...

lacarnut
05-29-2010, 10:04 PM
From what the report says, looks like they didnt tell the crew they had a seizure patient with head injuries :rolleyes:

Had they done so.............



Not really, but I will add this caveat...had this been a military prison or had this been a US military person, this would be headline news....sometimes I just dont get the US...

This is not the first rodeo for this jail bird. You do not encounter these problems if you stay out of jail.

djones520
05-29-2010, 10:05 PM
From what the report says, looks like they didnt tell the crew they had a seizure patient with head injuries :rolleyes:

Had they done so.............



Not really, but I will add this caveat...had this been a military prison or had this been a US military person, this would be headline news....sometimes I just dont get the US...

This happened a year ago Sonna. Check the dates.

Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 10:11 PM
This is not the first rodeo for this jail bird. You do not encounter these problems if you stay out of jail.

My point is that he should not have even been in jail.....they should have taken him to hospital first...a man unconscious and convulsing?

Doesnt matter if its one or a dozen...he still should receive the necessary medical care.

They knew he needed certain medication.
They failed to give it to him.

A year ago a woman came in and was diabetic, they refused to give her insulin.

She died

Do we see a pattern here?

Big Guy
05-29-2010, 10:12 PM
From what the report says, looks like they didnt tell the crew they had a seizure patient with head injuries :rolleyes:

Had they done so.............



Not really, but I will add this caveat...had this been a military prison or had this been a US military person, this would be headline news....sometimes I just dont get the US...

You are most likely correct, they did not give any diagnosis. The Officers most likely said something to the effect of "I don't know whats wrong with this guy, he fell down and hit his head then he started shaking". Correction Officers are not trained medical professionals, their medical training starts and ends with Basic First Aid and CPR.

Being a Correction Officer, I am biased and I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

djones520
05-29-2010, 10:16 PM
You are most likely correct, they did not give any diagnosis. The Officers most likely said something to the effect of "I don't know whats wrong with this guy, he fell down and hit his head then he started shaking". Correction Officers are not trained medical professionals, their medical training starts and ends with Basic First Aid and CPR.

Being a Correction Officer, I am biased and I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Doesn't matter if your a CO. This is America. Innocent until proven guilty. Something the title of this thread seems to forget about.


The Release Tank, thats what he was in when the seisure started. Is that a place they hold you while your being processed for release?

NJCardFan
05-29-2010, 10:20 PM
Again, being the only one to speak from experience here(with the exception of Big Guy), the officers do not have the medical background to deny any medical care nor make the call. I'd be willing to bet that this is a screw up on the part of the medical staff who are most assuredly not uniformed officers. Sonna, your blind prejudice against Arpaio makes me laugh at times. No uniformed officer is authorized to give medication. This is for medical staff only. If the man is seizing, a medical code is called. Therein lies the responsibility of the uniformed staff. Also, and I'm sure this is the same at Maricopa County, that the first duty of the officer is to secure the unit, not provide medical care.

Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 10:48 PM
NJ

As a team leader, I am responsible for what my team does.

As a manager I am accountable for my staff.

Arpaio as Sheriff, is responsible for what his people do, he is in command, his county, his office, his people, if they are badly trained its his fault, if they are criminal and he knows and does nothing about it it's his ass, if the jail isnt being run properly it's his job to make sure it is.

That's not blind prejudice, that's simply the truth.


Sonna, your blind prejudice against Arpaio makes me laugh at times. No uniformed officer is authorized to give medicationNo he isnt, he is, however required to immediately ensure such care is given if needed.


This is for medical staff only. If the man is seizing, a medical code is called. Therein lies the responsibility of the uniformed staff. Also, and I'm sure this is the same at Maricopa County, that the first duty of the officer is to secure the unit, not provide medical care. He or she has both responsibilities in equal measure. If he sees a man in a pool of blood he doesnt walk away and ignore it .

Maybe we "backward Aussies" have it right...standard procedure in an Aussie jail is this

When discovering an inmate in convulsions and / or head injury

1. Provide IMMEDIATE first aid as required.
2. Slam the alert button and yell for help.
3. Stay with the prisoner and maintain watch until medical help arrives. REPORT to medical team, and point out the head injury requiring medical attention and it is HIS job to see to it that they know its there.
4. Summon a supervisor and ensure they are made aware of the incident as soon as it happens.
5. Complete a FULL incident report and submit within the same day.
6. Report to the team leader / manager and explain how this happened on his watch.

and last but not ;least 7

Get ready to armorplate his ass, as a fullscale investigation is about to land on his head.

Jfor
05-29-2010, 10:53 PM
I will side with the Corrections officers and the Sheriff's department until it is proven that they screwed up. If dude hadn't of committed a crime he wouldn't be behind bars.

Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 10:54 PM
I will side with the Corrections officers and the Sheriff's department until it is proven that they screwed up. If dude hadn't of committed a crime he wouldn't be behind bars.By that corollary a man who has a heart attack in a street and is found unconscious he should be arrested and taken to jail for jaywalking? :rolleyes:

And btw, people behind bars have not necessarily have not committed ANY crime, just because you are in a jail DOES NOT mean you are guilty of anything.

WTF???

Big Guy
05-29-2010, 11:04 PM
NJ

As a team leader, I am responsible for what my team does.

As a manager I am accountable for my staff.

Arpaio as Sheriff, is responsible for what his people do, he is in command, his county, his office, his people, if they are badly trained its his fault, if they are criminal and he knows and does nothing about it it's his ass, if the jail isnt being run properly it's his job to make sure it is.

That's not blind prejudice, that's simply the truth.

No he isnt, he is, however required to immediately ensure such care is given if needed.

He or she has both responsibilities in equal measure. If he sees a man in a pool of blood he doesnt walk away and ignore it .

Maybe we "backward Aussies" have it right...standard procedure in an Aussie jail is this

When discovering an inmate in convulsions and / or head injury

1. Provide IMMEDIATE first aid as required.
2. Slam the alert button and yell for help.
3. Stay with the prisoner and maintain watch until medical help arrives. REPORT to medical team, and point out the head injury requiring medical attention and it is HIS job to see to it that they know its there.
4. Summon a supervisor and ensure they are made aware of the incident as soon as it happens.
5. Complete a FULL incident report and submit within the same day.
6. Report to the team leader / manager and explain how this happened on his watch.

and last but not ;least 7

Get ready to armorplate his ass, as a fullscale investigation is about to land on his head.

1. Provide immediate first aid as required.
Current standards say do not move the injured you may make things worse.

2. Slam the alert button and yell for help.
Current standards are to call a medical code. This still may not save a life. You call a medical code so medical professionals can take care of the patient.

3. Stay with the prisoner and maintain watch until medical help arrives. REPORT to medical team, and point out the head injury requiring medical attention and it is HIS job to see to it that they know its there.
Like I stated before, given the amount of "BASIC first aid training" an Officer is going to say "He fell and hit his head". That info saves his life how?

4. Summon a supervisor and ensure they are made aware of the incident as soon as it happens.
The supervisor arrives when the medical code is called and does make a report. How is this supposed to save a life?

5. Complete a FULL incident report and submit within the same day.
Agreed this is standard. How does this save a life?

6. Report to the team leader / manager and explain how this happened on his watch.
This is usually the supervisor who responds to all codes and it is standard practice. Still how does this save the life?

I understand your frustration. This is no different than when things go badly in a Hospital and someone dies.

Sonnabend
05-29-2010, 11:09 PM
Like I stated before, given the amount of "BASIC first aid training" an Officer is going to say "He fell and hit his head". That info saves his life how?

A medical professional would think "shit, head injury and convulsions".

Someone fucked up on this bigtime. :mad:

Big Guy
05-29-2010, 11:31 PM
A medical professional would think "shit, head injury and convulsions".

Someone fucked up on this bigtime. :mad:

I'm not saying that mistakes were or weren't made, I'm saying that stuff happens and sometimes people die because of it. This happens in and out of Jail/Prison.

Sonnabend
05-30-2010, 01:31 AM
I'm not saying that mistakes were or weren't made, I'm saying that stuff happens and sometimes people die because of it. This happens in and out of Jail/Prison.

BG: and all I am saying is that this isnt the first time Arpaio's people have fucked up and someone has died

More than once deserves a royal asskicking.

asdf2231
05-30-2010, 01:44 AM
The death of a 27-year-old prisoner at a Brisbane jail is Queensland's third death in custody in the past six weeks.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1217117/Man-dies-in-Brisbane-jail

OMFG you freaking Aussie MURDERERS!!! how could you?!?!?

Sonnabend
05-30-2010, 02:49 AM
All three deaths are being investigated by the coroner and chief inspector of prisons

Expect heads to roll.

Let's see who gets the chop in Arizona.

m00
05-30-2010, 07:37 AM
I will side with the Corrections officers and the Sheriff's department until it is proven that they screwed up. If dude hadn't of committed a crime he wouldn't be behind bars.

So people who are charged with a crime, and can't make bail, are simply guilty?

Sonnabend
05-30-2010, 09:19 AM
So people who are charged with a crime, and can't make bail, are simply guilty?

That small thing about "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" wasnt in his training, i guess...along with the Constitution, due process, presumption of innocence, burden of proof being on the PROSECUTION.............:rolleyes:

malloc
05-30-2010, 09:38 AM
So people who are charged with a crime, and can't make bail, are simply guilty?

I'm a resident of Pinal County AZ. My Sheriff, who I will probably vote for until I die is Babeu. However, I have to ask, do you have some problem with Arpaio? Some vendetta?

Keep in mind I'm not here to judge, I just want to know what sort of problem you might have with the man, and then judge from there.

BadCat
05-30-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm a resident of Pinal County AZ. My Sheriff, who I will probably vote for until I die is Babeu. However, I have to ask, do you have some problem with Arpaio? Some vendetta?

Keep in mind I'm not here to judge, I just want to know what sort of problem you might have with the man, and then judge from there.

They have a DU style hatred for Joe, which I find amusing since they don't live in Maricopa county. I did live there for 15 years, and like the vast majority of Arizona voters, I support Joe in the fullest.

NJCardFan
05-30-2010, 10:14 AM
Allow me to retort a bit here:

1. Provide IMMEDIATE first aid as required-As I said, and I can only equate to me department's policies, is that the officer's safety is job 1 so the first order of business would be to call a medical code on radio then secure the unit meaning make sure all cell doors are locked and all other inmates are secure either in their cells or in the dayrooms. It isn't unusual for an inmate to fake something in order to draw the officer in. Blame the previous scumbags who've done this for this procedure.

2. Slam the alert button and yell for help-Alert buttons are for riots only. sorry, but that's why they're there. Not because someone is having a seizure. If I ever used my duress button for a medical code, I'd be chewed out until my ass is completely gone. Reason being is that when a duress goes off, facility center treats it as either a riot or assault on staff and every swinging dick runs like the wind to respond. If hitting the duress for a medical code was common practice, refer to #1 when I mentioned how inmates sometimes fake medical emergencies in order to manipulate where the officers are.

3. Stay with the prisoner and maintain watch until medical help arrives. REPORT to medical team, and point out the head injury requiring medical attention and it is HIS job to see to it that they know its there.
-Uh, incorrect to a degree. The officer is not a trained medical staff member so he/she is not qualified to make such a diagnosis and it stands to reason that the officer did not see the inmate strike their head. Again, you're jumping to conclusions here.

4. Summon a supervisor and ensure they are made aware of the incident as soon as it happens.-Um, supervisor usually arrives on the scene anyway. Common procedure. I believe this to be for any incident.

5. Complete a FULL incident report and submit within the same day.-um, duh? We have to write reports for a leaky pipe so rest assured that a report is written on this matter as well. Again, jumping to conclusions.

6. Report to the team leader / manager and explain how this happened on his watch.-Well, considering we officers are not shaman, faith healers, and certainly not Jesus Christ, we are unable to prevent an epileptic inmate from having a seizure. Shit happens. Do you feel this strongly if an officer is duped into helping an inmate who looks like they are in distress and who is beaten senseless for it? I've had inmates commit suicide on "my watch". Can't prevent everything because I can't keep an eye on 58 closed doors simultaneously especially considering that if an inmate tries to hang up, it usually takes less than 4 minutes to lose consciousness and die. When an inmate kills himself on my shift, am I responsible given the fact that I am not omnipotent and cannot be everywhere at the same time?

Again, Sonna, you rely too much on your blind prejudice of Arpaio to see the forest through the trees. May I suggest getting a job in corrections and seeing just how tough a job this really is.

NJCardFan
05-30-2010, 10:33 AM
Holy shit. I just read the article. This isn't even a legitimate news outlet. This story is so one sided that it borders on fiction. Let me pick this one apart:


A man died from a brain hemorrhage after Sheriff Joe Arpaio's officers refused to give him his anti-seizure medication and put him in a cell with a concrete floor and walls, his daughters say.
A)As was said, not the officers call and B, as opposed to a cell made of Jello?

The family says the Sheriff's Department knew of Joseph Phillippi's medical history because he had suffered multiple seizures when he was denied his medication during a previous incarceration.
Oh, this is good. So I guess the Maricopa Sherriff's officers should know the medical histories of all 4 million residents of the county and commit them to memory.:rolleyes:

Phillippi had been arrested for trespassing and was taken to the Fourth Avenue Jail after he was found unconscious, shaking and convulsing in a woman's yard, his daughters say in the federal complaint.
I call bullshit on this. I seriously doubt he was found convulsing in someone's yard, put in handcuffs, and taken to the county lockup. Suuurreeee. He was just minding his own business. Again, Sonna jumping to conclusions. I know this because I have 124 inmates who were just minding their own business when arrested.

After Phillippi's seizure, officers "opted to accept transport within 30 minutes without lights and sirens" instead of seeking emergency care to expedite his release, his daughters say.
By the time Southwest Ambulance arrived at the jail, Phillippi "was not oriented to place or time, was dazed, tremulous, and diaphoretic."
He was suffering from a brain hemorrhage yet he was conscious. I'm not doubting he had a seizure because per the report, he was sweating and shaking but they're going to have a tough time proving the hemorrhage happened at that moment in time in the holding cell. And not using the lights and siren. Again, not the officers call but the paramedics call. This whole story reeks of bullshit.

According to the complaint, Arpaio's officers use a "quick release" procedure "to dump inmates with significant and emergent medical conditions so that any emergency medical provision would become the financial responsibility of the 'released' inmate rather than the county."
Um, first you say they did call an ambulance and now you're saying they pulled up to the hospital, dumped him on the sidewalk, and hightailed it out of there? Make up your mind. Again, BULLSHIT.

Even though Phillippi was injured during his incarceration, Arpaio's medical staff "told the ambulance dispatch that this was a 'private' call, and approved the 30-minute response time" though Phillippi "needed immediate medical care," according to the complaint.
Wow, still can't keep their story straight. And again, bullshit. And again, you're going to have a tough time proving an officer said, "Take your time".

If I were a betting men, and I am, I'd guess that this won't even make it to trial. There are so many holes in this claim that only an ambulance chasing shyster like some back of the National Enquirer lawyer would take this case. This whole story reeks of so much bullshit that I can smell it from here.

m00
05-30-2010, 01:25 PM
I'm a resident of Pinal County AZ. My Sheriff, who I will probably vote for until I die is Babeu. However, I have to ask, do you have some problem with Arpaio? Some vendetta?

I don't even know who Arpaio is. I was merely responding to the assertion that someone who is "behind bars" is automatically guilty, without any trial or conviction in a court of law.

Articulate_Ape
05-30-2010, 05:45 PM
Youse being a smart ass or sumptin.:)



Moi?

Chuck58
05-30-2010, 05:56 PM
I hear a lot of complaints here in NM about Sheriff Arpaio. When you start talking to these complainers, you quickly discover they're dimocrits, invariably liberal.

Joe Arpaio is the kind of boss I wish I'd had when I was a cop. He's the kind of person that, when Jan Brewer leaves office you'd like to see take her place.

My wife and I have always liked Arizona and we've talked occasionally about moving there. People like Joe Arpaio and Gov Brewer only reinforce our feelings.

Now if they'd just get rid of McCain, who had the balls the other day to stand up and say he's never actually supported illegal alien amnesty, Arizona would be just about an ideal place. More amazing, nobody asked that if he didn't support it, how his name got attached to the Kennedy/McCain bill.

Sonnabend
05-30-2010, 06:33 PM
Do I have a vendetta against Arpaio? Nope.

But ask Deborah Braillard...oops you cant. She's dead....after prison officers refused to give her insulin. That was the cause of death btw,...diabetic coma. Hardly fiction.

As for medical care and duty of care


A facility that provides medical and health services to inmates who are confined in a county jail. The sheriff shall annually evaluate the facility to determine if it meets the applicable standards that are adopted by either a national corrections commission on health care or an American correctional association or the sheriff shall annually submit the facility to a similar separate inspection by an outside agency with medical standards. The sheriff must submit the certificate of accreditation or proof of successful inspection to the department annually and keep a copy of the certificate or proof of inspection.Arpaio's jails are not accredited...meaning they do not meet the minimum standards set out by the National Commission on Correctional Health Care

Whether you accept it or not, jails, like hospitals have a duty of care.

From some of the judge's comments from Hart Vs Arpaio


For example, "Defendants shall ensure that the pretrial detainees' prescription medications are provided without interruption."

Sound familar?


And, "Defendants shall provide pretrial detainees who are taking prescribed psychotropic medications with housing in which the temperature does not exceed 85 F." (In other words, they cannot be housed in outdoor Tent City.)
In other words, prisoners are not to be placed whereby they can die of heat stroke or heat exhaustion after also being denied water.


And, "Defendants shall provide food to pretrial detainees that meets or exceeds the United States Department of Agriculture's Dietary Guidelines for Americans." (In other words, no moldy bread and green baloney.)In other words Arpaio is required to provide the people he has in his care with edible food.

By the way, so far, $43 million in wrongful death suits...and more to come.

djones520
05-30-2010, 06:39 PM
Links?

Sonnabend
05-30-2010, 06:43 PM
http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/prison/2006_2007_docket2.pdf

is a good way to start..and before you trash the link, let me remind you that there have been a STRING of deaths in that jail and in that county.

and here (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-09-11/news/hart-v-arpaio-civil-rights-class-action-suit-awaits-verdict/2)


Two months later, the jail's director of healthcare, Dr. Todd Wilcox (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/related/to/Todd+Wilcox), resigned from his job, also citing the violation of inmates' constitutional rights.

As for "fiction", the fact that these people are dead cant be disputed. They are.

Asdf pointed out the incident in Queensland, and yes it happened...then again the prisoner wasnt starving, wasnt in a cell at close to 90 degrees F and the jail that man was in is ACCREDITED and up to standards.

I want to ask one question: with the mounting evidence against him, with the number of deaths increasing day by day, with the wrongful death suits, the evasions, the lies, the coverups as Arpaio's staff do all they can to intimidate witnesses or stop probes into their office...doesnt it seem to you that maybe there is something WRONG here?

One incident after another...how many before you start asking yourself that maybe I might be right?

Chuck58
05-30-2010, 07:09 PM
http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/prison/2006_2007_docket2.pdf

is a good way to start..and before you trash the link, let me remind you that there have been a STRING of deaths in that jail and in that county.

and here (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-09-11/news/hart-v-arpaio-civil-rights-class-action-suit-awaits-verdict/2)



As for "fiction", the fact that these people are dead cant be disputed. They are.


The aclu has been after Arpiao almost since he took office. Anything they complain about is questionable, as far as I'm concerned. They filed suit years ago when he took away cable tv, when he began feeding his prisoners baloney sandwiches, when he made them wear pink, when he organized the chain gangs, etc, etc.

Not saying the aclu doesn't do some good, on very rare occasion. They even sided with the NRA once.

lacarnut
05-30-2010, 08:12 PM
http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/prison/2006_2007_docket2.pdf

is a good way to start..and before you trash the link, let me remind you that there have been a STRING of deaths in that jail and in that county.

and here (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-09-11/news/hart-v-arpaio-civil-rights-class-action-suit-awaits-verdict/2)



As for "fiction", the fact that these people are dead cant be disputed. They are.

Asdf pointed out the incident in Queensland, and yes it happened...then again the prisoner wasnt starving, wasnt in a cell at close to 90 degrees F and the jail that man was in is ACCREDITED and up to standards.

I want to ask one question: with the mounting evidence against him, with the number of deaths increasing day by day, with the wrongful death suits, the evasions, the lies, the coverups as Arpaio's staff do all they can to intimidate witnesses or stop probes into their office...doesnt it seem to you that maybe there is something WRONG here?

One incident after another...how many before you start asking yourself that maybe I might be right?

No evidence of a crime...just conjecture on your part. The State Prison (Angola) in LA has many prisoners buried on their grounds. Dying in jail is a common occurence.

The jailbird you are sucking eggs for had a history of being incarcerated. He could have died even if medical aid was given immediately.

Seems like the citizens have voted for Arpaio time and time again. Plus, if there was any real evidence against him, he would have been charged by the FEDS. They have looked into previous deaths and found no evidence that he had commited a criminal act.

warpig
05-30-2010, 08:13 PM
What municipality anywhere takes someone who is having seizures to jail instead of the hospital? Sounds absurd to me.

Sonnabend
05-31-2010, 07:38 AM
lacarnut: I am not going to go on with this, and in light of the fact no one seems to want to listen, I will drop it.


No evidence of a crime...just conjecture on your part. The State Prison (Angola) in LA has many prisoners buried on their grounds. Dying in jail is a common occurence. Actually, no it isnt, no it should never be, and quite frankly, no one winds up with a a broken neck, several broken toes, extensive internal injuries, comatose, ruptured intestines and vertebrae needing to be straightened with a halo...from falling off a four foot bunk.

Crenshaw's bunk was 4'2" high, about a foot shorter than a child's bunk bed

Draw your own conclusions.

Oh and by the way, the majority of those in his jail are awaiting trial and have not yet been convicted of anything, as they may very well be acquitted or even fined and let go. The idea is that they SURVIVE to go to trial, the duty of any prison officer anywhere is the welfare, care and safety of the people in his custody.


Not saying the aclu doesn't do some good, on very rare occasion. They even sided with the NRA once

Even if your worst enemy tells you a truth..it is a truth nonetheless.

I'm done.

NJCardFan
05-31-2010, 11:03 AM
Sonna, the ACLU? Really? C'mon guy. No organization is blatantly slanted and politically driven as the ACLU. This is the same organization who went after the military for Gitmo and who believe that enemy combatants should be tried in civilian courts. You are getting your information from ACLU. To give you an idea of how slanted they are, this would be like you getting information from the DU.


But ask Deborah Braillard...oops you cant. She's dead....after prison officers refused to give her insulin. That was the cause of death btw,...diabetic coma. Hardly fiction.
Again, and for the 100th time, officers do not dispense medication. Stop listening to the ACLU. Please for the love of all that is holy.

Sonnabend
05-31-2010, 07:49 PM
Again, and for the 100th time, officers do not dispense medicationAgain I agree they dont.

The prison was called and the officer was told she is diabetic make sure she gets her medication. I dont expect the officer to administer it to her

I DO expect that officer to then go to whoever is in medical charge and tell them and then follow through to make sure it is given to her, to document that call, note the details,..and if she doesnt get it and goes into a coma to go to a senior officer and say "I told them to give it to her, it's in her records, and they didnt and now she is in a coma and she needs medical help NOW"

A prisoner died in a jail of a diabetic coma because she was not given insulin that the jail staff knew she had to have.

NJCardFan
05-31-2010, 10:10 PM
Again I agree they dont.

The prison was called and the officer was told she is diabetic make sure she gets her medication. I dont expect the officer to administer it to her

I DO expect that officer to then go to whoever is in medical charge and tell them and then follow through to make sure it is given to her, to document that call, note the details,..and if she doesnt get it and goes into a coma to go to a senior officer and say "I told them to give it to her, it's in her records, and they didnt and now she is in a coma and she needs medical help NOW"

A prisoner died in a jail of a diabetic coma because she was not given insulin that the jail staff knew she had to have.

Why do I feel like I'm talking to myself here. Once the jail medical staff has the info, custody's responsibilities end. It is not the job of the uniformed officer to make sure someone gets their medication. I don't give a flip how you're trying to spin this but medical and custody/security are 2 different entities. Medical handles medical and custody handles the safety and security of the institution. I have enough to worry about then if some skid got their medication. Unless you have definitive prof that the officer prevented the issuance of the medication, you're barking up the wrong tree. Are you trying to tell me that is some skid on my unit doesn't go and get his shot, goes into a diabetic coma, and I don't find him until it's too late that it'a ll my fault? C'mon Sonna. Stop letting your blind hatred of Arpaio cloud common sense.

patriot45
05-31-2010, 10:19 PM
Why do I feel like I'm talking to myself here. Once the jail medical staff has the info, custody's responsibilities end. It is not the job of the uniformed officer to make sure someone gets their medication. I don't give a flip how you're trying to spin this but medical and custody/security are 2 different entities. Medical handles medical and custody handles the safety and security of the institution. I have enough to worry about then if some skid got their medication. Unless you have definitive prof that the officer prevented the issuance of the medication, you're barking up the wrong tree. Are you trying to tell me that is some skid on my unit doesn't go and get his shot, goes into a diabetic coma, and I don't find him until it's too late that it'a ll my fault? C'mon Sonna. Stop letting your blind hatred of Arpaio cloud common sense.

Because you are talking to yourself! I think Sonna should sneak across the border and go to Arizona and run against Sheriff Joe.

PoliCon
05-31-2010, 10:20 PM
If Joe is so bad - why haven't his enemies been able to get any charges to stick?

Big Guy
05-31-2010, 10:22 PM
Why do I feel like I'm talking to myself here. Once the jail medical staff has the info, custody's responsibilities end. It is not the job of the uniformed officer to make sure someone gets their medication. I don't give a flip how you're trying to spin this but medical and custody/security are 2 different entities. Medical handles medical and custody handles the safety and security of the institution. I have enough to worry about then if some skid got their medication. Unless you have definitive prof that the officer prevented the issuance of the medication, you're barking up the wrong tree. Are you trying to tell me that is some skid on my unit doesn't go and get his shot, goes into a diabetic coma, and I don't find him until it's too late that it'a ll my fault? C'mon Sonna. Stop letting your blind hatred of Arpaio cloud common sense.

I gave up on him on this one, he is hell bent on blaming the Officer's here. He obviously never worked in a detention facility.

Sonnabend
06-01-2010, 07:04 AM
He obviously never worked in a detention facility.

You're absoiutely right. I never did

I did, however work in almost all of Sydneys major hospitals. and was a volunteer emergency services rescue / medical for close to fifteen years.

Enough to know what the word negligence means..but as I said, this is the last thread I will be raising on this guy. What i find almost unbelievable is the shrug of the shoulders and a "so what" when it comes to deaths in custody.

I thank God every single day that we dont have an Arpaio in this country.

noonwitch
06-01-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm not a CO, but I used to be a delinquency worker. If a kid I was visiting started having a seizure in front of me, I'd be calling for help and looking for a pillow to put under his head, despite whatever the protocol rules are in the facility in question-it's the compassionate thing to do, but it is also the right thing to do to avoid getting sued. Whatever this guy's worst offense was, he wasn't a Hannibal Lecter, known for faking medical conditions in order to escape custody.





I'm also skeptical of lawyer's claims, when they are representing grieving and/or greedy relatives, but I don't like Arpio. He crosses the line from being tough on crime to enjoying making criminals suffer.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
06-01-2010, 11:48 AM
If Joe is so bad - why haven't his enemies been able to get any charges to stick?

Didn't they ask the same thing about John Gotti before Sammy Gravano turned state's evidence?

lacarnut
06-01-2010, 12:01 PM
Didn't they ask the same thing about John Gotti before Sammy Gravano turned state's evidence?

Dip you take a stupid pill today?

By your logic Obama commited a crime by offering Sestak a job (Sect. of the Navy) to drop out of the Senate race.

NJCardFan
06-01-2010, 12:17 PM
I'm not a CO, but I used to be a delinquency worker. If a kid I was visiting started having a seizure in front of me, I'd be calling for help and looking for a pillow to put under his head, despite whatever the protocol rules are in the facility in question-it's the compassionate thing to do, but it is also the right thing to do to avoid getting sued. Whatever this guy's worst offense was, he wasn't a Hannibal Lecter, known for faking medical conditions in order to escape custody.





I'm also skeptical of lawyer's claims, when they are representing grieving and/or greedy relatives, but I don't like Arpio. He crosses the line from being tough on crime to enjoying making criminals suffer.

Not the same Noon. As I've said ad nauseum, an officer's safety outweigh any compassion for an inmate. And, again as I've said ad nauseum, it is not unusual for inmates to fake a medical emergency to lure or manipulate where an officer is to be for one reason or another. Either to assault the officer or to effect a "hit" on another inmate. Also, and this is something else that seems lost on Sonna, an officer can't be everywhere at once. I am all alone with 124 inmates(max capacity for my unit) in a housing unit that has 58(54 2 man cells and 4 4 man cells) cells on 2 floors. The cells have doors with a small window. Hell, here is what my housing unit looks like:
http://www.thermomass.com/photos/southwoodCell_tn.jpg

This is it people. This is a 1st floor left side unit so flip this around to a mirror image and you have mine. This picture is taken on the mezzanine landing in front of the unit. Behind the photographer is a storage closet and a janitors closet. The officers desk(podium really) is directly downstairs and to the left in this pic.Behind me is the LCP(local control point) which is manned by 1 person who is responsible for both the left and right sides. Yes, you saw that right. 1 person for 2 units. And behind my podium to the left are the 2 dayrooms. An idiot built this prison. I have blind spots galore. Anyhoo, you can see how big this is. I can't be everywhere and I can't see everything. I try to walk around at least once an hour, if I can. Sometimes circumstances don't allow for me to do that. I have a huge turnover on my unit so when inmates are moved off of my unit on 1st shift, when I come in I am rest assured that I will be getting fresh "fish" in on 2nd. So paperwork time. Then there are the 3 cell searches for me to do. So, Noon, having to care for 1 seizing child doesn't even begin to compare. Again, some of you should not comment on what you do not know about.

Rebel Yell
06-01-2010, 12:35 PM
The guy was found in someone's yard having a seizure. Apparently, he didn't give himself his meds either.


Sonna has to side with the inmates. He's an Aussie. You know, the penal colony.:rolleyes:



I can say that. I'm from Georgia.;)

noonwitch
06-01-2010, 01:01 PM
Not the same Noon. As I've said ad nauseum, an officer's safety outweigh any compassion for an inmate. And, again as I've said ad nauseum, it is not unusual for inmates to fake a medical emergency to lure or manipulate where an officer is to be for one reason or another. Either to assault the officer or to effect a "hit" on another inmate. Also, and this is something else that seems lost on Sonna, an officer can't be everywhere at once. I am all alone with 124 inmates(max capacity for my unit) in a housing unit that has 58(54 2 man cells and 4 4 man cells) cells on 2 floors. The cells have doors with a small window. Hell, here is what my housing unit looks like:
http://www.thermomass.com/photos/southwoodCell_tn.jpg

This is it people. This is a 1st floor left side unit so flip this around to a mirror image and you have mine. This picture is taken on the mezzanine landing in front of the unit. Behind the photographer is a storage closet and a janitors closet. The officers desk(podium really) is directly downstairs and to the left in this pic.Behind me is the LCP(local control point) which is manned by 1 person who is responsible for both the left and right sides. Yes, you saw that right. 1 person for 2 units. And behind my podium to the left are the 2 dayrooms. An idiot built this prison. I have blind spots galore. Anyhoo, you can see how big this is. I can't be everywhere and I can't see everything. I try to walk around at least once an hour, if I can. Sometimes circumstances don't allow for me to do that. I have a huge turnover on my unit so when inmates are moved off of my unit on 1st shift, when I come in I am rest assured that I will be getting fresh "fish" in on 2nd. So paperwork time. Then there are the 3 cell searches for me to do. So, Noon, having to care for 1 seizing child doesn't even begin to compare. Again, some of you should not comment on what you do not know about.




Your DOC needs to hire more COs.

NJCardFan
06-01-2010, 09:56 PM
Your DOC needs to hire more COs.

The last time this department did something in favor of us was when Fred Baker got killed in '97. After that, we got vests and, at his jail at least, they put 2 officers per unit.