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Gingersnap
07-08-2010, 11:20 AM
It's still cool and cloudy. Things will remain rainy for another day or so.

I'm subbing for Flagator this morning as he's off to do some stuff.

TOTD: I caught a show last night about a Brit who is being billed as 'The Fattest Man in the World". This is a series which will follow him as he undergoes bariatric surgery and recovers from being essentially bed-bound for many years.

I've seen this guy before and he was pretty normal up until he went to jail for stealing (he was a postman) and then went on unemployment. Eventually, his council had to build an enormously expensive specialized flat for him. He's often appeared angry and petulant on TV appearances. This is his shot at rejoining society. He needs to both lose weight and eventually (I suppose) get surgery to remove the excess skin.

Why do you think this happens? I can easily understand being overweight or even obese but what is going on when it gets to the point of needing 24/7 care? What are the friends and relatives thinking? Do you think this kind of thing could ever happen to you if you were depressed or had some kind of trauma? Why or why not?

djones520
07-08-2010, 11:35 AM
I've got to imagine something is wrong in the head. It's easy to mock these people, but to get to that point it cannot be a healthy concious decision.

NJCardFan
07-08-2010, 12:59 PM
Alcoholics and junkies get more respect than fat people even though you can get just as addicted to food as you can drugs or booze. And it can be debilitating. The problem is that the problems are magnified because unless someone's a real crackhead or a street wino, it's easier to spot a fat person than a junkie.

noonwitch
07-08-2010, 01:17 PM
It's hot again, here. It's supposed to rain tonight and cool off into the 80s for the weekend.


As I am doing the weight loss thing, I think a lot of people who are dealing with weight issues have underlying conditions that contribute to their weight problems-both physical and mental conditions.

I come from a family where a lot of people have weight issues and control issues-my grandma was 5'2" and weighed 265 lbs. One of my uncles is probably over 300 lbs. My weight issues have to do with a combination of laziness, a love for sweets and issues with my mom. But since I stopped talking to my mom on a weekly basis and joined the community center and started swimming, I've lost 60 or so lbs. I don't have too much farther to go, but I'm sticking to the exercise part and avoiding the diet part.

FlaGator
07-08-2010, 01:36 PM
Alcoholics and junkies get more respect than fat people even though you can get just as addicted to food as you can drugs or booze. And it can be debilitating. The problem is that the problems are magnified because unless someone's a real crackhead or a street wino, it's easier to spot a fat person than a junkie.

Trust me on this one. As an alcoholic I get treated with a lot of disrespect by people who find out that I am one and who don't know me personally. Want to know a secret, it's just as hard to spot an ex-obese person as it is an recovering alcoholic, but those who still practice their addiction can't really hide it.

NJCardFan
07-08-2010, 02:55 PM
Trust me on this one. As an alcoholic I get treated with a lot of disrespect by people who find out that I am one and who don't know me personally. Want to know a secret, it's just as hard to spot an ex-obese person as it is an recovering alcoholic, but those who still practice their addiction can't really hide it.

True but my point was that being addicted to drugs or alcohol is considered an illness or even a disease yet being addicted to food is called being a lazy slob and isn't met with the same general sense of sympathy.

Shannon
07-09-2010, 12:02 AM
I am pretty sure this could never happen to me. I consider myself fat if I reach 120. I was just told by my dr. that I needed to eat more. I am considering it.;)

Shannon
07-09-2010, 12:05 AM
True but my point was that being addicted to drugs or alcohol is considered an illness or even a disease yet being addicted to food is called being a lazy slob and isn't met with the same general sense of sympathy.

I don't think that druggies and alcoholics are given sympathy. And when they form groups, it's generally to stop their addictions not rejoice in them.

NJCardFan
07-09-2010, 12:09 AM
I don't think that druggies and alcoholics are given sympathy. And when they form groups, it's generally to stop their addictions not rejoice in them.

So drugs use and alcoholism isn't glorified in this country? You don't watch many movies do you. But how many movies portray fat people in a sympathetic way? I can't think of any.

Articulate_Ape
07-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Why do you think this happens? I can easily understand being overweight or even obese but what is going on when it gets to the point of needing 24/7 care? What are the friends and relatives thinking? Do you think this kind of thing could ever happen to you if you were depressed or had some kind of trauma? Why or why not?

I think this sort of thing requires an enabler(s), in this case it sounds like it was the NHS and other government agencies. This is another case supporting the need for our society to get back to some level of personal responsibility. I mean how are these bed-ridden lardasses geting their food if they can't even get up? Someone has to be shoveling it into their pie holes, right?

The answer is simple. Stop feeding them.

Shannon
07-09-2010, 12:17 AM
So drugs use and alcoholism isn't glorified in this country? You don't watch many movies do you. But how many movies portray fat people in a sympathetic way? I can't think of any.

I can't stand anyone that can't take care of themselves for reasons of their own making. I don't know about movies and fat people except that they probably watch too many of them.

Articulate_Ape
07-09-2010, 12:21 AM
I can't stand anyone that can't take care of themselves for reasons of their own making. I don't know about movies and fat people except that they probably watch too many of them.


What movie are you watching now?

Shannon
07-09-2010, 12:25 AM
What movie are you watching now?

It's more of a "how to" program regarding ridding the world of porkers.;)

Articulate_Ape
07-09-2010, 12:28 AM
It's more of a "how to" program regarding ridding the world of porkers.;)

Do tell. How?

Gingersnap
07-09-2010, 12:33 AM
I think this sort of thing requires an enabler(s), in this case it sounds like it was the NHS and other government agencies.

LOL! My husband flat out told me that I could not expect any help from him if I embarked on a super-obese lifestyle. While he claims he didn't marry me for my looks, he certainly did marry me for all that sex, work, social life, home repair, and mutual entertainment stuff.

He's okay with traumatic paralysis but not self-induced immobility. To be fair, he told me to stop feeding him or letting him into bed if the same thing happened to him. ;)

Shannon
07-09-2010, 12:43 AM
Do tell. How?

Oh, don't be daft. I have no desire to rid the world of porkers... just yet. I will need them for the coming zombie apocolypse.

Rockntractor
07-09-2010, 12:48 AM
Oh, don't be daft. I have no desire to rid the world of porkers... just yet. I will need them for the coming zombie apocolypse.

Did you call toots?:confused:

marinejcksn
07-09-2010, 12:57 AM
To me, it's clearly a mental disorder. I can't imagine getting to that size without serious depression or something like that.

To lighten the mood on a serious problem, here's a funny American cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJQEl5vcAo

And here's a funny Englishman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXTq2_3LfXM

:D

Gingersnap
07-09-2010, 01:39 AM
If it is a mental issue - how effective is surgery in the long run? This guy lost 60 pounds in a few weeks when his food was restricted in the hospital. Outside, could he eventually enlarge that pouch? Maybe compensate with liquid calories?

I think the surgery can be effective in reversing some problems (type II diabetes, high BP), but how does it hold up at the 10 year point? We have 2 people who did it a few years ago. Both are smaller than they were, neither is at a normal (not "average") weight.

I wonder if cognitive-behavioral therapy would help? I have OCD and it's something I just live with but CBT has changed my life. You have to keep up with it - you aren't ever totally normal. I'm not saying these people have OCD, they don't but the techniques seem like they could work for food as well as anything else.

Are bariatric patients offered cognitive therapy along with all the other advice? :confused:

NJCardFan
07-09-2010, 03:15 AM
If it is a mental issue - how effective is surgery in the long run? This guy lost 60 pounds in a few weeks when his food was restricted in the hospital. Outside, could he eventually enlarge that pouch? Maybe compensate with liquid calories?

I think the surgery can be effective in reversing some problems (type II diabetes, high BP), but how does it hold up at the 10 year point? We have 2 people who did it a few years ago. Both are smaller than they were, neither is at a normal (not "average") weight.

I wonder if cognitive-behavioral therapy would help? I have OCD and it's something I just live with but CBT has changed my life. You have to keep up with it - you aren't ever totally normal. I'm not saying these people have OCD, they don't but the techniques seem like they could work for food as well as anything else.

Are bariatric patients offered cognitive therapy along with all the other advice? :confused:

Look no further than The Biggest Loser. This is a show that takes extremely fat people(at least the past few seasons) and tries to get them on the road to good health. They throw in a $250K prize for the winner. Granted, they have helped a lot of people but they've had winners gain all of their weight back. Season 1 winner Ryan, according to trainer Bob Harper, gained back every pound. Season 3 winner Erik lost 214lbs while on the show. He too gained back every ounce(he was shown this past season back on the road to recovery). Season 2 winner Matt gained a lot of his weight back but not all. He's just a little chunky. Erik blamed it on his falling back into bad habits. This is why I struggle with weight. It's part addiction to food(I just love to eat) and part behavior. Strange that I was able to quit smoking(2 packs a day) going cold turkey but I can't lose weight successfully.

I equate this with prison recidivism. The reason why most convicts end up back in jail is that when they get out, they go back to the same 'hood and hang with the same people and it doesn't take long to start the same behavior and voila, back to prison you go.

noonwitch
07-09-2010, 09:49 AM
If it is a mental issue - how effective is surgery in the long run? This guy lost 60 pounds in a few weeks when his food was restricted in the hospital. Outside, could he eventually enlarge that pouch? Maybe compensate with liquid calories?

I think the surgery can be effective in reversing some problems (type II diabetes, high BP), but how does it hold up at the 10 year point? We have 2 people who did it a few years ago. Both are smaller than they were, neither is at a normal (not "average") weight.

I wonder if cognitive-behavioral therapy would help? I have OCD and it's something I just live with but CBT has changed my life. You have to keep up with it - you aren't ever totally normal. I'm not saying these people have OCD, they don't but the techniques seem like they could work for food as well as anything else.

Are bariatric patients offered cognitive therapy along with all the other advice? :confused:


I had a coworker once who weighed somewhere in the 400lbs+ range. She could barely walk, and I always wondered how she could get up every morning. I also thought that nobody could eat so much to get to that weight, that there had to be some kind of physical condition behind it.

There wasn't. She ate a lot of food and got no exercise. If she ever got serious about losing weight, surgery would be her best option, just because of the extreme nature of her obesity and the immediate risks to her health posed by it.

Gingersnap
07-09-2010, 10:41 AM
I've only heard about 'The Biggest Loser' but never watched it. It seems exploitative to me. I still think some concrete CBT techniques should be taught to the surgery patients along with all the other stuff.

Let's face it, I doubt there's a fat person in the country who isn't well aware of calorie counts, portion control, and all that. They need something more to allow them to implement the information and behaviors. I can't think of too many things more depressing than losing hundreds of pounds and then putting it all back on. :(

RobJohnson
07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
I've lost 60 or so lbs. I don't have too much farther to go, but I'm sticking to the exercise part and avoiding the diet part.

Good Job.

PoliCon
07-09-2010, 03:46 PM
IMHO - most people who are that obese are obese for mental reasons. Some people get fat to hide. (Rape victims and the sexually abused have tendancy to get fat to hide.) Some people get fat because they find comfort in food and have no other comforts in their lives. The trick is to find the source of the issue and fix it first.

m00
07-09-2010, 10:22 PM
This is why I struggle with weight. It's part addiction to food(I just love to eat) and part behavior. Strange that I was able to quit smoking(2 packs a day) going cold turkey but I can't lose weight successfully.

I'm with you on this. In high school I ran track, and I kept up a fairly rigorous exercise routine in college. I could eat whatever the hell I wanted. I'd suck down probably 4000-5000 calories a day and was in the best shape of my life. Weird thing is, after college when I started working, I had to stop the exercise but my metabolism remained very high for years so I didn't have to change my diet. 2-3 years back that was over, and I probably put on about 50 pounds in a year. I've been trying to work it off, but I don't have the energy to keep up a decent exercise routine and I'm just used to eating a certain amount of food a day. It feels weird not to always get the largest burger on the menu.

Gingersnap
07-09-2010, 11:35 PM
I'm with you on this. In high school I ran track, and I kept up a fairly rigorous exercise routine in college. I could eat whatever the hell I wanted. I'd suck down probably 4000-5000 calories a day and was in the best shape of my life. Weird thing is, after college when I started working, I had to stop the exercise but my metabolism remained very high for years so I didn't have to change my diet. 2-3 years back that was over, and I probably put on about 50 pounds in a year. I've been trying to work it off, but I don't have the energy to keep up a decent exercise routine and I'm just used to eating a certain amount of food a day. It feels weird not to always get the largest burger on the menu.

You might try Intermittent Fasting. Google it and you will get a ton of hits. Basically, it's eating just once a day. People who are trying to lose weight just eat a a fairly normal dinner. People who do it to control blood sugar or other medical issues eat more calories during a larger eating "window" (maybe a four hour window).

A guy at work has done this and it's kind of startling. He was pretty much a typical IT porker: sodas, snacks, overweight (obese maybe), no exercise, etc. He started doing this and he lost the weight, dropped the grazing/soda habits, and eventually started running. :eek:

Now you'd never know he had any issues. He still eats just once a day Monday through Friday but he eats extra meals on the weekend to be social. He's still working out. He says that the first week was hard but after that it became a routine. His blood work apparently cleaned right up within a couple of months. He says this is easier than fiddling around with calories and portions.