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View Full Version : I am one of those Hillary supporters that will vote McCain



Elspeth
06-04-2008, 07:32 PM
I've had it with DU, with the immature and often bizarre behavior expressed towards women over there. Even worse is the assumption that if you think Obama is inexperienced, you are some sort of racist.

This was my parting thread at that place:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6240654&mesg_id=6240654

Since I'll be voting for McCain in the primary, I thought I'd come over and see what you all were about.

About me: moderate Dem. Fiscal conservative. Social liberal.

I want habeas corpus reinstated. I want eminent domain decimated, especially now that the government can take your land and sell it to another (rich or well-connected) private buyer. I believe the eminent domain decision made us all renters, since our land can be taken away at any time. I believe that habeas corpus and the right to property ownership are the cornerstones of American democracy (that which we inherited from Britain) and their suspension destroys our very real freedom.

I am for the Second amendment and believe that victims of violent crime (rape, armed robbery, attempted murder, etc.) should be allowed to carry concealed weapons if the criminal involved has threatened their lives and is on parole.

I am very pro-choice. No talking me out of that one. I am very feminist in that I want the right to have power, make money, own property, have control over my life, and help those whom I think need it. I do not have children by choice, but feel that if you want 12 kids (and can take care of them) that's your choice.

I hope you won't mind if I come here from time to time.

Elspeth.

Goldwater
06-04-2008, 07:43 PM
Welcome Elspeth, I didn't actually think Hillary supporters that would crossover to McCain existed, but I guess the moderate thing works wonders with you guys.

Actually, your positions are similar to mine, except you probably don't want to shrink the government like a lot of us do.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy yourself round these here parts.

Phillygirl
06-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Welcome Elspeth.

Question for you: Why should you only be allowed to carry a weapon after you've been a victim of a crime?

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 07:52 PM
Thank you. I appreciate it.

When it comes to government, I think it has an important role. What bothers me most is its inefficiency. I know people at high levels in certain agencies that work very hard and are really good, but the get undermined by both political appointees above them, and some of the workers below them who are basically taking up space. THere are good people in government, but they often get overwhelmed by the time wasters, the politicos, etc.

I have another friend who is a contractor for a government agency. She does all the GSers work for them, gets no credit and does not have the job security. The contractors used to get paid more, but, now, that's not even true. My friend says that one GS15 she knows sits around reading science fiction all day, running out the clock until retirement.

In the end, what they need to do is go through and find all of the hardworking Gsers and contractors and keep them. Then, they need to get rid of the rest. They could then hire some new people, and a lot of fewer of them, and you'd get smaller AND more efficient government.

That's my view of it, having friends in different agencies.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 07:58 PM
Welcome Elspeth.

Question for you: Why should you only be allowed to carry a weapon after you've been a victim of a crime?

I'll tell why. I worry that concealed weapons for everyone would be misused. I am in California and watch road rage on a daily basis. I can't imagine what it would be like if someone lost it on the 405 freeway during rush hour and just started shooting someone who cut him off. That's my fear.

But, I know there is an argument for carrying concealed weapons, especially as crime gets worse. My grandfather ran a business in the 1940s and he would close up shop at night and carry deposits to the overnight depository at the bank. He carried a gun with him every night for protection.

In the end, I have no problem with responsible people having weapons and having the ability to carry them. The problem is that so many people are irresponsible. I just don't trust that a minor incident at a bar or a gas station won't blow up into a big one because some irresponsible people have weapons.

That said, I have gun owners in my family and they feel safer with them. They cannot carry them because of the state they live in, but they have them in their homes.

Elspeth.

gator
06-04-2008, 08:08 PM
You are very welcome here.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 08:10 PM
You are very welcome here.

Thank you. I am just browing and trying to see what discussions are going on. After the wars at DU, your kindness is very much appreciated.

RobJohnson
06-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Will this political thread be staying in the lounge?

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 08:22 PM
Did I post in the wrong forum?

Constitutionally Speaking
06-04-2008, 08:24 PM
I've had it with DU, with the immature and often bizarre behavior expressed towards women over there. Even worse is the assumption that if you think Obama is inexperienced, you are some sort of racist.

This was my parting thread at that place:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6240654&mesg_id=6240654

Since I'll be voting for McCain in the primary, I thought I'd come over and see what you all were about.

About me: moderate Dem. Fiscal conservative. Social liberal.

I want habeas corpus reinstated. I want eminent domain decimated, especially now that the government can take your land and sell it to another (rich or well-connected) private buyer. I believe the eminent domain decision made us all renters, since our land can be taken away at any time. I believe that habeas corpus and the right to property ownership are the cornerstones of American democracy (that which we inherited from Britain) and their suspension destroys our very real freedom.

I am for the Second amendment and believe that victims of violent crime (rape, armed robbery, attempted murder, etc.) should be allowed to carry concealed weapons if the criminal involved has threatened their lives and is on parole.

I am very pro-choice. No talking me out of that one. I am very feminist in that I want the right to have power, make money, own property, have control over my life, and help those whom I think need it. I do not have children by choice, but feel that if you want 12 kids (and can take care of them) that's your choice.

I hope you won't mind if I come here from time to time.

Elspeth.


Elspeth I bid you a hearty welcome!!!!!! I hope you enjoy it here and find it a place you can call your home on the internet.


Just so you know, Habeas Corpus has not been taken away. There is no need to reinstate something that is already intact. That is just one of the lies they fed you over there.

When have you not been able to have power, make money,own property , help who you like and have control over your life and why in the hell would you think a conservative would want to deny those rights to you???? We FIGHT for those rights for ALL people. SHeese what kind of crap are they spewing over there???


As for the pro-choice issue, we will just have to disagree. Some of us believe that it is a life and it is a human life. We simply cannot justify killing a human being for the convenience of another. We can do better than that.

Again, WELCOME and enjoy!!!

Constitutionally Speaking
06-04-2008, 08:27 PM
Did I post in the wrong forum?


Yeah, but it is no big deal. We can move it to the proper one. It was a toss up anyway, since it was your introduction, I would probably say your instinct was correct, but it was a rather political one and that may have been what qualified it for the "general" or "political" areas. Don't worry, even us vets do that occasionally!

Phillygirl
06-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Prepare for incoming pm Elspeth. ;)

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 08:39 PM
Thanks. I am having some problems posting right now. It says there is a security issue.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Yeah, but it is no big deal. We can move it to the proper one. It was a toss up anyway, since it was your introduction, I would probably say your instinct was correct, but it was a rather political one and that may have been what qualified it for the "general" or "political" areas. Don't worry, even us vets do that occasionally!

Thank you!

I would love for you to tell me your view on what is happening with habeas corpus. I am especially concerned with this.

Thanks,

Elspeth

Phillygirl
06-04-2008, 08:46 PM
Thanks. I am having some problems posting right now. It says there is a security issue.

One of the bugs that haven't been worked out yet. Just keep plugging along. Sometimes it seems to take a couple of hit replies to take.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 08:49 PM
Thanks. I thought it was me. :)

Jumpy
06-04-2008, 09:00 PM
Funny thread to read at DU!! They are VICIOUS over there! They make our infighting here at CU look like a Sunday School picnic.

Welcome to CU! :)

CLibertarian
06-04-2008, 09:00 PM
Welcome Elspeth.

Lanie
06-04-2008, 09:03 PM
Welcome. I don't know about changing parties, but people shouldn't be accused of being racists for disagreeing.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:04 PM
Funny thread to read at DU!! They are VICIOUS over there! They make our infighting here at CU look like a Sunday School picnic.

Welcome to CU! :)

It's been unbelievable over there. There was one point where I kept wondering why I was over there at all. It was a real eye-opener.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Welcome Elspeth.

Thank you. I appreciate the kindness.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:07 PM
Welcome. I don't know about changing parties, but people shouldn't be accused of being racists for disagreeing.

The whole strategy seems to be "You support Obama or you're a racist." I was accused of having white supremacists for parents and wanting to assassinate Obama. I couldn't believe it.

Constitutionally Speaking
06-04-2008, 09:14 PM
Thank you!

I would love for you to tell me your view on what is happening with habeas corpus. I am especially concerned with this.

Thanks,

Elspeth


My basic view is that the left wing demonized our President over something that has a history going back to FDR and WWII AND which had prior SCOTUS approval.

The SCOTUS case was Ex Parte Quirin where 8 German agents INCLUDING a U.S. citizen were tried before a Military Tribunal and 6 of the 8 executed for their crimes.

So the whole idea that Bush violated the Constitution and specifically Habeas Corpus was a stretch. Demonizing him for something that had legal precedent was nothing but a smear attempt on the part of the left.

Either way, the Supreme court ruled against the Administration and took away the power that every President has had. If ANYTHING, the Bush administration, via their failure in court, has STRENGTHENED Habeas Corpus to degrees never seen before - and I think to the country's detriment. We are turning our Constitution into a suicide pact.

SaintLouieWoman
06-04-2008, 09:15 PM
Thank you. I appreciate it.

When it comes to government, I think it has an important role. What bothers me most is its inefficiency. I know people at high levels in certain agencies that work very hard and are really good, but the get undermined by both political appointees above them, and some of the workers below them who are basically taking up space. THere are good people in government, but they often get overwhelmed by the time wasters, the politicos, etc.

I have another friend who is a contractor for a government agency. She does all the GSers work for them, gets no credit and does not have the job security. The contractors used to get paid more, but, now, that's not even true. My friend says that one GS15 she knows sits around reading science fiction all day, running out the clock until retirement.

In the end, what they need to do is go through and find all of the hardworking Gsers and contractors and keep them. Then, they need to get rid of the rest. They could then hire some new people, and a lot of fewer of them, and you'd get smaller AND more efficient government.

That's my view of it, having friends in different agencies.

Welcome Elsbeth. You sound like you have a good knowledge of the government process. I've sold to various government agencies for over 25 years. You give an extremely accurate picture of what goes on. There are some good, competent government people, but the system itself never looks at the big picture, just from one fiscal year to the next fiscal year. Long range planning isn't high on their priorities.

You are more than welcome here. Your ideas aren't all that incompatible with many here. I applaud your decision to not just go by party. I will be supporting McCain, as the option isn't viable in my opinion. I saw a friend last night and we're both looking for McCain headquarters so we can volunteer.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:20 PM
My basic view is that the left wing demonized our President over something that has a history going back to FDR and WWII AND which had prior SCOTUS approval.

The SCOTUS case was Ex Parte Quirin where 8 German agents INCLUDING a U.S. citizen were tried before a Military Tribunal and 6 of the 8 executed for their crimes.

So the whole idea that Bush violated the Constitution and specifically Habeas Corpus was a stretch. Demonizing him for something that had legal precedent was nothing but a smear attempt on the part of the left.

Either way, the Supreme court ruled against the Administration and took away the power that every President has had. If ANYTHING, the Bush administration, via their failure in court, has STRENGTHENED Habeas Corpus to degrees never seen before - and I think to the country's detriment. We are turning our Constitution into a suicide pact.

Thank you for explaining this. I think part of the problem is the Jose Padilla case. He was an American citizen and held without many of his legal rights. I understood that Padilla was trouble, but my fear was the precedent.

An older friend of mine once told me that part of the problem with the American people is that we don't know what exactly was done to protect us during WWII. Your example supports that.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:27 PM
Welcome Elsbeth. You sound like you have a good knowledge of the government process. I've sold to various government agencies for over 25 years. You give an extremely accurate picture of what goes on. There are some good, competent government people, but the system itself never looks at the big picture, just from one fiscal year to the next fiscal year. Long range planning isn't high on their priorities.

You are more than welcome here. Your ideas aren't all that incompatible with many here. I applaud your decision to not just go by party. I will be supporting McCain, as the option isn't viable in my opinion. I saw a friend last night and we're both looking for McCain headquarters so we can volunteer.

I used to live in Washington DC and still have friends back there. The budgeting process is exactly as you describe it: everything is about spending all you get this year so you can get more than that next year. There is no long term planning, and a lot of that has to do with Jimmy Carter's move years ago to put political appointees in charge. The most planning that can be done, if any, is over 4 years, and sometimes, even 2 years, depending on how Congress is situated in terms of party. Sometimes, it seems that everything gets undone every 4 or 8 years. That was one of the reasons I didn't want to work for the government: I couldn't imagine having everything undone. Even the military gets frustrating. I have a friend who is a civilian working for an arm of the service in procurement. She and her team will work out these detailed cost analyses and then some politico or admiral will go golfing with a contractor, and the analysis will not even be looked at.

I appreciate your welcome. I am a moderate and have always been ok as a Dem, but this year I didn't even recognize my party.

SaintLouieWoman
06-04-2008, 09:35 PM
I used to live in Washington DC and still have friends back there. The budgeting process is exactly as you describe it: everything is about spending all you get this year so you can get more than that next year. There is no long term planning, and a lot of that has to do with Jimmy Carter's move years ago to put political appointees in charge. The most planning that can be done, if any, is over 4 years, and sometimes, even 2 years, depending on how Congress is situated in terms of party. Sometimes, it seems that everything gets undone every 4 or 8 years. That was one of the reasons I didn't want to work for the government: I couldn't imagine having everything undone. Even the military gets frustrating. I have a friend who is a civilian working for an arm of the service in procurement. She and her team will work out these detailed cost analyses and then some politico or admiral will go golfing with a contractor, and the analysis will not even be looked at.

I appreciate your welcome. I am a moderate and have always been ok as a Dem, but this year I didn't even recognize my party.

After so many years of selling to the feds, I've about had it. The illogic is getting to me. The manufacturer of the product I represent got into a dispute with GSA! :eek: The contracting officer was being unreasonable. I know the VP with the manufacturer is a reasonable person. He couldn't take it and decided to go through a back door for the contract. Well, the new fiscal year started 10-1-07. We still don't have a contract.

Had a problem with one branch of the government here. They wanted to purchase my product, but refused to buy w/o the contract #. The open market price was lower than another method, purchased at a price at least 20% higher, from an 8a contractor. Instead they went with a mom and pop local place who lied and either gave an expired contract # or just made one up. I was the lowest price, gave them GSA terms, yet they went with someone else because I was honest and told the truth.

It's been blowing my mind. I've known people in the military who've worked for agencies here who left the military and took civilian status when Clinton was elected. They said they couldn't salute him. There are some very good people in the government; but I think the best just can't take the system for long. They end up with folks who are riding out the clock til retirement.

I'm very glad you decided to join our group. I think you'll enjoy it. :)

Constitutionally Speaking
06-04-2008, 09:43 PM
Thank you for explaining this. I think part of the problem is the Jose Padilla case. He was an American citizen and held without many of his legal rights. I understood that Padilla was trouble, but my fear was the precedent.

An older friend of mine once told me that part of the problem with the American people is that we don't know what exactly was done to protect us during WWII. Your example supports that.

Glad to explain it. I also fear setting bad precedent, but in this case, I think the fears were unwarranted. It is not as if a Military Tribunal is a railroading session. The reason the Govt. wanted this was to keep information out of the press and away from those sympathetic to the terrorists - out of the hands of the enemies - who could use some of the info to counter us in our efforts in the war. As it turned out, the Govt. chose not to use some of it's most convincing evidence and therefore could not even charge Padilla with the most serious crime that he committed.

Goldwater
06-04-2008, 09:54 PM
This is exactly why Tom Coburn rocks.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 09:58 PM
After so many years of selling to the feds, I've about had it. The illogic is getting to me. The manufacturer of the product I represent got into a dispute with GSA! :eek: The contracting officer was being unreasonable. I know the VP with the manufacturer is a reasonable person. He couldn't take it and decided to go through a back door for the contract. Well, the new fiscal year started 10-1-07. We still don't have a contract.

Had a problem with one branch of the government here. They wanted to purchase my product, but refused to buy w/o the contract #. The open market price was lower than another method, purchased at a price at least 20% higher, from an 8a contractor. Instead they went with a mom and pop local place who lied and either gave an expired contract # or just made one up. I was the lowest price, gave them GSA terms, yet they went with someone else because I was honest and told the truth.

It's been blowing my mind. I've known people in the military who've worked for agencies here who left the military and took civilian status when Clinton was elected. They said they couldn't salute him. There are some very good people in the government; but I think the best just can't take the system for long. They end up with folks who are riding out the clock til retirement.

I'm very glad you decided to join our group. I think you'll enjoy it. :)

Oh Lord, I understand your frustration. The more honest you are, the more crazy they make you. And sometimes, certain contractors will call the Congressional representatives and make trouble, so that even though they don't follow the rules, they get priority. I have great sympathy for you. It's a terrible mess!

I'm glad I came here too. This has been an interesting discussion with intelligent people who seem to have real jobs! :) (Sorry, I couldn't resist that.)

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 10:00 PM
Glad to explain it. I also fear setting bad precedent, but in this case, I think the fears were unwarranted. It is not as if a Military Tribunal is a railroading session. The reason the Govt. wanted this was to keep information out of the press and away from those sympathetic to the terrorists - out of the hands of the enemies - who could use some of the info to counter us in our efforts in the war. As it turned out, the Govt. chose not to use some of it's most convincing evidence and therefore could not even charge Padilla with the most serious crime that he committed.

Who was Padilla connected with? He wasn't his own operative, certainly.

SaintLouieWoman
06-04-2008, 10:07 PM
Oh Lord, I understand your frustration. The more honest you are, the more crazy they make you. And sometimes, certain contractors will call the Congressional representatives and make trouble, so that even though they don't follow the rules, they get priority. I have great sympathy for you. It's a terrible mess!

I'm glad I came here too. This has been an interesting discussion with intelligent people who seem to have real jobs! :) (Sorry, I couldn't resist that.)

:D We're not all like Eyelids.

DU doesn't want their members to come here, as they'd see that for the most part, we are logical and fair.

MstrBlue
06-04-2008, 10:17 PM
Welcome, Elspeth!!
Hope that you enjoy your experience here!
It would appear (reading your DU post) that you were not well-accepted there.
From my own limited experience here, you have entered into a wonderfully open forum, here!

Again, Welcome!!

Gingersnap
06-04-2008, 10:22 PM
It is a wonderful board but political posts are not allowed in the Lounge. We have several other forums for that. Since the restoration my powers have been erratic and I can't move this thread to where it belongs. Please don't post politics here.

It disturbs the Force.

Goldwater
06-04-2008, 10:28 PM
It is a wonderful board but political posts are not allowed in the Lounge. We have several other forums for that. Since the restoration my powers have been erratic and I can't move this thread to where it belongs. Please don't post politics here.

It disturbs the Force.

The labels are kind of confusing, louge and general discussion? I does not comput lolz.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Welcome, Elspeth!!
Hope that you enjoy your experience here!
It would appear (reading your DU post) that you were not well-accepted there.
From my own limited experience here, you have entered into a wonderfully open forum, here!

Again, Welcome!!

Thank you, and, no, I wasn't well accepted there. It kind of surprised me. There's a gang mentality over there and I think I fell afoul of them early on. What bothered me most is that they could call me almost any name, no matter how reasonable or polite I was. Yet I was the one who got threads locked. I never quite understood that, except that the certain cliques with time on their hands must have alerted on every one of my posts. I would ask the mods why things were removed and, usually, get no answer.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 10:32 PM
It is a wonderful board but political posts are not allowed in the Lounge. We have several other forums for that. Since the restoration my powers have been erratic and I can't move this thread to where it belongs. Please don't post politics here.

It disturbs the Force.

I am sorry I posted in the wrong place. I was trying to introduce myself and didn't quite know where to put things. I am loathe to disturb the Force, so I will follow your instructions to the letter. :)

Thanks.

Gingersnap
06-04-2008, 10:39 PM
I am sorry I posted in the wrong place. I was trying to introduce myself and didn't quite know where to put things. I am loathe to disturb the Force, so I will follow your instructions to the letter. :)

Thanks.

That's okay, you're new. We try to confine the Lounge to severed penis stories, beer antics, the weather, and extramarital affairs. :p

Hopefully, we will have all our former forums restored shortly including the fabled Welcome Wagon.

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 10:43 PM
That's okay, you're new. We try to confine the Lounge to severed penis stories, beer antics, the weather, and extramarital affairs. :p

Hopefully, we will have all our former forums restored shortly including the fabled Welcome Wagon.

Ah, I see. My thread doesn't quite fit that description. :)

A Welcome Wagon is actually a nice idea. It's hard to get to know people when you're new.

Gingersnap
06-04-2008, 10:46 PM
Ah, I see. My thread doesn't quite fit that description. :)

Not yet. LOL! ;)

Goldwater
06-04-2008, 10:47 PM
Hey guys, bad news, I severed my penis on the sharp wit of this thread.

Gingersnap
06-04-2008, 10:52 PM
Hey guys, bad news, I severed my penis on the sharp wit of this thread.

Super glue. How many times have we been down this road? :rolleyes:

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 10:53 PM
LOL :D

Let me go find my links to the Weekly World News. I'm sure there's someone with a severed penis drinking beer and having an extra-marital affair. :)

Goldwater
06-04-2008, 10:54 PM
Coolio, I'll just welcome Elspeth again and continue in my attempts to stop the bleeding as I exit this thread.

jediab
06-04-2008, 11:01 PM
LOL :D

Let me go find my links to the Weekly World News. I'm sure there's someone with a severed penis drinking beer and having an extra-marital affair. :)

WHAT? My PR guy assured me that info would NEVER leave the free clinic!!

Welcome Elspeth! On this forum, there aren't any sites that can not be named!

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Coolio, I'll just welcome Elspeth again and continue in my attempts to stop the bleeding as I exit this thread.

OUCH!:eek:

Elspeth
06-04-2008, 11:06 PM
WHAT? My PR guy assured me that info would NEVER leave the free clinic!!

Welcome Elspeth! On this forum, there aren't any sites that can not be named!

I appreciate that. And thanks for the welcome. :)

SarasotaRepub
06-05-2008, 07:52 AM
Welcome to CU Elspeth and I hope you have a greyt time here.

Who knows, maybe Will Pitt will fit you into one of his long writups
for TruthOut now that you're here! :eek::D

The DUmmies really hate it when one of their own comes here.

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 09:03 AM
Welcome to CU Elspeth and I hope you have a greyt time here.

Who knows, maybe Will Pitt will fit you into one of his long writups
for TruthOut now that you're here! :eek::D

The DUmmies really hate it when one of their own comes here.

Will Pitt...LOL!!

He's left DU--and returned--many times. I am only leaving once. :)

ReaganForRus
06-05-2008, 09:09 AM
welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! enjoy your stay

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 09:31 AM
welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! enjoy your stay

Thanks. I appreciate the welcome.

Perilloux
06-05-2008, 09:32 AM
Welcome to CU Elspeth!!

And just out of curiosity, how did you find CU? For me it was all the mystery surrounding 'The Site That Can't Be Named', I had to Know what it was and why it was forbidden. I then just followed the vague clues at the DUmp, performed a little Google Fu, and here I am.

biccat
06-05-2008, 09:48 AM
A belated welcome. I'm sure we'll end up disagreeing strongly on something, but it's always nice to have a new face around.

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 09:50 AM
Welcome to CU Elspeth!!

And just out of curiosity, how did you find CU? For me it was all the mystery surrounding 'The Site That Can't Be Named', I had to Know what it was and why it was forbidden. I then just followed the vague clues at the DUmp, performed a little Google Fu, and here I am.

Someone had told me about it when I asked what it was. (DU had post that got deleted because it mentioned "The Site that Can't Be Named." I PM'd somebody to ask what that was and they gave me the name. The site was down at the time, so I thought nothing more about it, but after a horrendous month at DU where I was called every name in the book for questioning the new Messiah of the Democratic Party, I began to think I needed a new place to hang out.

What really clinched the deal was this past weekend with the DNC. They made such a big deal about AL Gore winning the popular vote in 2000, but then turned around and rejected Clinton's argument on the same grounds. I couldn't believe they were going to screw Florida over again (if I were Florida, I think I'd just leave the country at this point). I also couldn't believe that they were supporting someone with absolutely no experience to run the country. Obama is a recently elevated local politician with some local criminal friends and the ability to hold no strong principles of his own. If you notice, his powerful public speaking (and he is very skilled in rhetorical delivery) says absolutely nothing. To me, this indicates a guy with no moral scruples and the ability to be used by whoever runs him from behind. I couldn't believe that THIS was who the Democratic leadership chose instead of ANY of other candidates including Clinton.

When Geraldine Ferraro said that Obama wouldn't be in the position he was in if he were white, she is absolutely correct. His experience would be questioned and his criminal ties considered a liability. He is, oddly enough, protected by his race because of white guilt. But somehow, for pointing out the obvious, Ferraro is demonized as a racist. Interestingly, Ferraro was a victim herself of prejudice when she ran--because of her Italian name, she was accused of mafia dealings. But somehow, everyone forgot that. She was now just this racist b--, c-- (you fill in the blanks).

Gone on too long, sorry. But when the party makes it clear that experience doesn't matter and that their own arguments about the popular vote don't matter, you just have to throw up your hands. There are many women out there who are upset enough to be voting Republican or Green, just to make sure that Obama doesn't get their vote. There is also some question of Michelle Obama's anti-white racism and a tape that is alleged to be in existence, but I don't put much stock in the existence of the tape.

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 09:52 AM
A belated welcome. I'm sure we'll end up disagreeing strongly on something, but it's always nice to have a new face around.

We might, but I'm always civilized about it and always willing to listen.

movie buff
06-05-2008, 09:59 AM
Welcome, Elspeth. I hope you like it here.

jediab
06-05-2008, 10:07 AM
Someone had told me about it when I asked what it was. (DU had post that got deleted because it mentioned "The Site that Can't Be Named." I PM'd somebody to ask what that was and they gave me the name. The site was down at the time, so I thought nothing more about it, but after a horrendous month at DU where I was called every name in the book for questioning the new Messiah of the Democratic Party, I began to think I needed a new place to hang out.

What really clinched the deal was this past weekend with the DNC. They made such a big deal about AL Gore winning the popular vote in 2000, but then turned around and rejected Clinton's argument on the same grounds. I couldn't believe they were going to screw Florida over again (if I were Florida, I think I'd just leave the country at this point). I also couldn't believe that they were supporting someone with absolutely no experience to run the country. Obama is a recently elevated local politician with some local criminal friends and the ability to hold no strong principles of his own. If you notice, his powerful public speaking (and he is very skilled in rhetorical delivery) says absolutely nothing. To me, this indicates a guy with no moral scruples and the ability to be used by whoever runs him from behind. I couldn't believe that THIS was who the Democratic leadership chose instead of ANY of other candidates including Clinton.

When Geraldine Ferraro said that Obama wouldn't be in the position he was in if he were white, she is absolutely correct. His experience would be questioned and his criminal ties considered a liability. He is, oddly enough, protected by his race because of white guilt. But somehow, for pointing out the obvious, Ferraro is demonized as a racist. Interestingly, Ferraro was a victim herself of prejudice when she ran--because of her Italian name, she was accused of mafia dealings. But somehow, everyone forgot that. She was now just this racist b--, c-- (you fill in the blanks).

Gone on too long, sorry. But when the party makes it clear that experience doesn't matter and that their own arguments about the popular vote don't matter, you just have to throw up your hands. There are many women out there who are upset enough to be voting Republican or Green, just to make sure that Obama doesn't get their vote. There is also some question of Michelle Obama's anti-white racism and a tape that is alleged to be in existence, but I don't put much stock in the existence of the tape.

What you, Geraldine Ferraro, and a lot of Clinton supporters have experienced from the Obama liberals are what conservatives have endured for quite some time now. The name calling, the hate, the brutal verbal and sometimes physical attacks on ANYONE who disagrees with their point of view. The massive bias in the media has really shown through, and Hillary was a victim of it. The hate the comes from them scares me. They are damn determined to destroy the rights of those people who do not fall in step with their beliefs. From the Fairness Doc. to erroding the Right to Bear Arms, it's their way or you are a biggot, hate monger, racists, war monger, chickenhawk, sexist, fill in the blank....

One Clinton supporter who was on The O'Rielly factor, said that he now knows what it is like to be a Republican with the unfairness of the mass media. When asked if he thought that FOX News was fair to Hilary, he said that FOX was the most fair out of all the other news networks. Now isnt that a real kick in the pants for the FOX news haters? ;)

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 10:09 AM
I think a lot of us are having the scales fall from our eyes. I think we thought we were all in this together. Now it's clear that white women were just being used.

Perilloux
06-05-2008, 10:12 AM
Someone had told me about it when I asked what it was. (DU had post that got deleted because it mentioned "The Site that Can't Be Named." I PM'd somebody to ask what that was and they gave me the name. The site was down at the time, so I thought nothing more about it, but after a horrendous month at DU where I was called every name in the book for questioning the new Messiah of the Democratic Party, I began to think I needed a new place to hang out.

What really clinched the deal was this past weekend with the DNC. They made such a big deal about AL Gore winning the popular vote in 2000, but then turned around and rejected Clinton's argument on the same grounds. I couldn't believe they were going to screw Florida over again (if I were Florida, I think I'd just leave the country at this point). I also couldn't believe that they were supporting someone with absolutely no experience to run the country. Obama is a recently elevated local politician with some local criminal friends and the ability to hold no strong principles of his own. If you notice, his powerful public speaking (and he is very skilled in rhetorical delivery) says absolutely nothing. To me, this indicates a guy with no moral scruples and the ability to be used by whoever runs him from behind. I couldn't believe that THIS was who the Democratic leadership chose instead of ANY of other candidates including Clinton.

When Geraldine Ferraro said that Obama wouldn't be in the position he was in if he were white, she is absolutely correct. His experience would be questioned and his criminal ties considered a liability. He is, oddly enough, protected by his race because of white guilt. But somehow, for pointing out the obvious, Ferraro is demonized as a racist. Interestingly, Ferraro was a victim herself of prejudice when she ran--because of her Italian name, she was accused of mafia dealings. But somehow, everyone forgot that. She was now just this racist b--, c-- (you fill in the blanks).

Gone on too long, sorry. But when the party makes it clear that experience doesn't matter and that their own arguments about the popular vote don't matter, you just have to throw up your hands. There are many women out there who are upset enough to be voting Republican or Green, just to make sure that Obama doesn't get their vote. There is also some question of Michelle Obama's anti-white racism and a tape that is alleged to be in existence, but I don't put much stock in the existence of the tape.

Well I'm glad you found us. And I couldn't agree more about Obama using so many words to say absolutely nothing. I don't even like the Clintons but felt the attacks of racism from the Obama supporters were ridiculous and unwarrented. No doubt, IMO, any critque of Obama will be labeled racist. Which will prevent any debate and leave any chance of real concerns about his inexperiance and ability to lead this country unanswered.

jediab
06-05-2008, 10:15 AM
I think a lot of us are having the scales fall from our eyes. I think we thought we were all in this together. Now it's clear that white women were just being used.

Wow, Really? You feel that white women were just being used? Interesting.

Why do you feel that way if I may ask?

biccat
06-05-2008, 10:34 AM
I think a lot of us are having the scales fall from our eyes. I think we thought we were all in this together. Now it's clear that white women were just being used.
White women, blacks, blue collar workers, environmental activists, you're all being used. Obama's Marxist beliefs are the new truth of the Democrat party. Too bad the media's BDS is so strong that they don't see that.

Molon Labe
06-05-2008, 12:40 PM
When it comes to government, I think it has an important role. What bothers me most is its inefficiency.


Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. efficiency and regulation (government) are mutually exclusive.

Welcome!!! :)

Elspeth
06-05-2008, 12:50 PM
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. efficiency and regulation (government) are mutually exclusive.

Welcome!!! :)

Thanks. I appreciate the kind welcome.