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Satanicus
07-25-2010, 07:29 PM
About six in ten Americans continue to express support for the so-called “public option” –- which the Senate appears to have sidelined for now. Views on this haven’t changed recently. As was the case last month, Democrats favor it and Republicans are opposed.
VIEWS ON PUBLIC OPTION
Favor 59% 61%
Oppose 29 28

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_120909.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

NJCardFan
07-25-2010, 07:40 PM
Uh huh. Then how do you explain that in a recent CBS poll (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html), 49%are against compared to only36% for Obamacare? You can spin things all you want but just because people favor a public option(we'll get to this in a second), doesn't mean that they favor the crap that's being shoved down their throats. As for the public OPTION, they favor just that. An option. What you're ilk wants is not an option but total control. Now, go back and poll that same group of people and ask them if they favor the government plan being the only option and tell me how that poll works out.

Bleda
07-25-2010, 07:45 PM
The "public option" is simply the means to destroy private health insurance. It's a step in the road to single-payer.

NJCardFan
07-25-2010, 07:51 PM
The "public option" is simply the means to destroy private health insurance. It's a step in the road to single-payer.
Which is something this knucklehead doesn't understand. Perhaps if they opened a dictionary and looked up the word option, they'd know why people polled favorably.

Articulate_Ape
07-25-2010, 08:01 PM
About six in ten Americans continue to express support for the so-called “public option” –- which the Senate appears to have sidelined for now. Views on this haven’t changed recently. As was the case last month, Democrats favor it and Republicans are opposed.
VIEWS ON PUBLIC OPTION
Favor 59% 61%
Oppose 29 28

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_120909.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

December of 2009? HAHAHAHA! You are digging deep to justify your denial. The Dems are going to lose big time in November and likely in 2012. The Liberals have unmasked themselves and their agenda under the Obama regime and Americans have decided that they want to have Americans running THEIR government instead of Liberals.

malloc
07-25-2010, 08:14 PM
About six in ten Americans continue to express support for the so-called “public option” –- which the Senate appears to have sidelined for now. Views on this haven’t changed recently. As was the case last month, Democrats favor it and Republicans are opposed.
VIEWS ON PUBLIC OPTION
Favor 59% 61%
Oppose 29 28

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_120909.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Even though this article is very, very old, it continues to say:



But as both sides of the debate have dug in to assert their positions
this fall, the public’s views on the impact of reform remain steady
and skeptical: few Americans think they’ll personally be helped by the
reforms, and more than twice as many more think they’ll be hurt, while
four in ten foresee no impact.

HOW WOULD PROPOSED CHANGES AFFECT YOU PERSONALLY?
Now 11/2009 10/2009
Would help 16% 19% 18%
Would hurt 34 34 31
No effect 42 41 45
Not sure 8 6 6



Context. It's important.

Troll
07-25-2010, 08:37 PM
59% favor Public Option

I read somewhere that around 50% of people don't pay taxes. Hmm...

Molon Labe
07-25-2010, 08:55 PM
I read somewhere that around 50% of people don't pay taxes. Hmm...

He's always quoting some poll or another where a majority of the electorate wish to steal from the the minority.

NJCardFan
07-25-2010, 09:00 PM
I read somewhere that around 50% of people don't pay taxes. Hmm...

Nice Kenny avatar.

warpig
07-25-2010, 09:23 PM
ISSUE: The cost of health care is too high.

DEMOCRAT SOULTION: We'll pay it for you.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 03:31 AM
About six in ten Americans who were polled continue to express support for the so-called “public option” –- which the Senate appears to have sidelined for now. Views on this haven’t changed recently. As was the case last month, Democrats favor it and Republicans are opposed.
VIEWS ON PUBLIC OPTION
Favor 59% 61%
Oppose 29 28

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_Obama_120909.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Fixed to reflect the truth not the drug addled ramblings of a mind numbed robot.

To say that 6 of 10 Americans want The Obumbler's health plan is a lie because they did not poll every single person in America. When they do that come see us with your poll. Till then, the poll that only asked 1031 people their opinions means less than what my dog leaves in the backyard.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 07:06 AM
To say that 6 of 10 Americans want The Obumbler's health plan is a lie because they did not poll every single person in America..

I agree, and if you had any sense you would see that the public option IS NOT in Obamas plan, and that this poll asks about the public option.

6 in 10 want the public option.

NJCardFan
07-26-2010, 09:46 AM
I agree, and if you had any sense you would see that the public option IS NOT in Obamas plan, and that this poll asks about the public option.

6 in 10 want the public option.
A public OPTION you fucktard. Since you're either too stupid, lazy, or dishonest to look it up, allow me to look up the word option for you:


Main Entry: 1op·tion
Pronunciation: \ˈäp-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin option-, optio free choice; akin to Latin optare to choose
Date: 1593

1 : an act of choosing
2 a : the power or right to choose : freedom of choice b : a privilege of demanding fulfillment of a contract on any day within a specified time c : a contract conveying a right to buy or sell designated securities, commodities, or property interest at a specified price during a stipulated period; also : the right conveyed by an option d : a right of an insured person to choose the form in which payments due on a policy shall be made or applied
3 : something that may be chosen: as a : an alternative course of action <didn't have many options open> b : an item that is offered in addition to or in place of standard equipment
4 : an offensive football play in which a back may choose whether to pass or run with the ball —called also option play
synonyms see choicehttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/option
Did you read any of that? See where it says that an option is something to be chosen? An alternative course of action? An act of choosing? From the Latin "optio" meaning free choice? That means they wouldn't mind a public option or choice. Something they can choose or choose not to participate. Not public option that in your puny mind means to completely control or be the only option. Learn to read and learn to understand before you post such dreck.

Molon Labe
07-26-2010, 10:39 AM
6 in 10 want the public option.

:rolleyes:

so what.


In economics, the majority is always wrong. - John Kenneth Galbraith

In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place. - Mohandas Gandhi

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

Democracy is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses - H.L. Mencken

swirling_vortex
07-26-2010, 11:57 AM
q6 Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling health care?
Approve 42 13 68 39 44
Disapprove 50 82 25 53 48
DK/NA 8 5 7 8 8
Hmm, something's a little fishy here. Data's skewed all over the place. Besides, the problem is how "public option" is defined. If people see it as a free handout, then yes, they will be more inclined to support it. However, if they come to the realization that it means higher taxes and the abolishment of private insurance over a period of time, then I don't think you'll have as many supporters.

Rebel Yell
07-26-2010, 12:02 PM
Uh huh. Then how do you explain that in a recent CBS poll (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html), 49%are against compared to only36% for Obamacare? You can spin things all you want but just because people favor a public option(we'll get to this in a second), doesn't mean that they favor the crap that's being shoved down their throats. As for the public OPTION, they favor just that. An option. What you're ilk wants is not an option but total control. Now, go back and poll that same group of people and ask them if they favor the government plan being the only option and tell me how that poll works out.

We already have a public option. You have the option to not work, spit out a litter of young'uns, sit back, call the ambulance because you have a sore pinky toe, go to the Emergence Room, let the taxpayers foot the bill. Happens all the time.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 02:02 PM
I agree, and if you had any sense you would see that the public option IS NOT in Obamas plan, and that this poll asks about the public option.

6 in 10 want the public option.

And once again Stupidicus you gloss over the fact that 6 in 10 OF THE 1031 PEOPLE WHO WERE POLLED want the public option. To say that 6 in10 AMERICANS want it is a lie because THEY DID NOT POLL EVERYONE IN AMERICA.

But then again you are a DUmbass and as we know DUmbasses lie, DUmbasses lie all the time.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 04:33 PM
And once again Stupidicus you gloss over the fact that 6 in 10 OF THE 1031 PEOPLE WHO WERE POLLED want the public option. To say that 6 in10 AMERICANS want it is a lie because THEY DID NOT POLL EVERYONE IN AMERICA.

But then again you are a DUmbass and as we know DUmbasses lie, DUmbasses lie all the time.

If you reject this poll , then you reject every single poll ever taken on the planet earth.

Because no poll ever POLLS EVERYBODY.

How fucking stupid are you guys ? ..you are now rejecting a poll because it didn't ask every single American ?

WTF ?

NJCardFan
07-26-2010, 04:41 PM
If you reject this poll , then you reject every single poll ever taken on the planet earth.

Because no poll ever POLLS EVERYBODY.

How fucking stupid are you guys ? ..you are now rejecting a poll because it didn't ask every single American ?

WTF ?

Why are you ignoring both my posts? Because they prove you to be an incredible dunderhead? If so, can't blame you then.

Lager
07-26-2010, 05:09 PM
It's quite possible that those six out of ten assumed that a public option meant "free" healthcare. I'm not surprised that six out of ten were in favor of it. I am surprised that it wasn't more.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Why are you ignoring both my posts? Because they prove you to be an incredible dunderhead? If so, can't blame you then.

The poll says Public option.

You are refering to the Obama health care plan that is now law.

It's not the same thing.

BadCat
07-26-2010, 05:37 PM
People are idiots.

Look who they elected "president".

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 06:00 PM
People are idiots.

Look who they elected "president".

And yet the fact remains , Most Americans favor a Punlic Option, they always have , throughout the debate.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 06:09 PM
If you reject this poll , then you reject every single poll ever taken on the planet earth.

Because no poll ever POLLS EVERYBODY.

How fucking stupid are you guys ? ..you are now rejecting a poll because it didn't ask every single American ?

WTF ?

I do reject every poll except the ones that count....elections. But you're a fucking moron if you think 1031 people speak for EVERY AMERICAN alive today, which is what you keep claiming when you say 6 in 10 want the public option.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 06:11 PM
And yet the fact remains , Most Americans favor a Punlic Option, they always have , throughout the debate.

Nope, the fact is that just the 6 in 10 of the 1031 people polled want the public option, not most Americans. Too bad you're so damned brainwashed by your DNC handlers you can't see this simple fact.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 06:17 PM
I do reject every poll.

Of course you do , I just showed you a poll you don't like , so by default, you reject every poll.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 06:19 PM
Of course you do , I just showed you a poll you don't like , so by default, you reject every poll.

I reject the polls I do like as well for the very same reason. Always have, always will. The only polls that count are the ones we have on election day.

So you say that 6 in 10 Americans want the public option. Let's have a poll here on CU..."Is Satanicus an empty headed parrot for the DNC?" lets say the results are 95% yes and 5% no. Does that mean I can go and truthfully say that 95% of Americans think that Satanicus an empty headed parrot for the DNC? Nope, because I didn't ask EVERY American, just like they didn't ask EVERY American regarding the public option.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 06:23 PM
I reject the polls I do like as well for the very same reason.

And you reject hard stats from the US Treasury and the Bureau of Labor.

Take a bow, you have created your own reality

Zathras
07-26-2010, 06:31 PM
And you reject hard stats from the US Treasury and the Bureau of Labor.

Take a bow, you have created your own reality

Oh and what would those stats be Stupidicus? You keep ranting but provide no proof.

As for ones own reality, what's the color of the sky in yours, cause it aint blue that's for sure.

Satanicus
07-26-2010, 06:35 PM
Oh and what would those stats be Stupidicus? You keep ranting but provide no proof.

As for ones own reality, what's the color of the sky in yours, cause it aint blue that's for sure.

You think the Bureau of Labor statistics is lying about this chart... ALL CUers think this chart is a lie.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mupm2BmIjtc/S7ZwZRn4mFI/AAAAAAAALQY/9adN70fVUAU/s1600/chart+jobs.jpg

Troll
07-26-2010, 07:49 PM
:rolleyes:

so what.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

I don't care what 59% (or 99% for that matter) of the people in this country want. Your wants are not a lien on my wallet. If 'they' want it, let them pool their resources and foot the bill for it.

Big Guy
07-26-2010, 08:00 PM
Hey Satan Boy, ...Your STUPID is showing again.

You have been called to the Dome, go there and get your ass whoped.

Zathras
07-26-2010, 08:02 PM
You think the Bureau of Labor statistics is lying about this chart... ALL CUers think this chart is a lie.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mupm2BmIjtc/S7ZwZRn4mFI/AAAAAAAALQY/9adN70fVUAU/s1600/chart+jobs.jpg

Ah, but that is not a poll Stupidicus. That is a graph built with statistics, not by polling 1031 random people asking for their opinions about a public option for health care. Nice try at the deflection but, as usual, you fail miserably. Whether it's a lie or not? Who knows but claiming 608 people speak for 181,720,000 Americans definately is.

Also CU'ers don't think the chart is a lie. It's your opinions of it that we think are lies.

swirling_vortex
07-26-2010, 08:10 PM
If you reject this poll , then you reject every single poll ever taken on the planet earth.

Because no poll ever POLLS EVERYBODY.

How fucking stupid are you guys ? ..you are now rejecting a poll because it didn't ask every single American ?

WTF ?
Let me rephrase this back at you, why are you using only this one poll as your basis for total government control of the health care industry? CBS recently did another poll that only showed 36% favoring the current health care legislation, while 49% wanted repeal.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010453-503544.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Using your singular measurement, I could effectively conclude that 49% want repeal. However, that's not correct, you need to use multiple polls to try to at least create some sort of average.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

In this case, the average against the health care bill is actually higher, at 50.5%.

You think the Bureau of Labor statistics is lying about this chart... ALL CUers think this chart is a lie.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mupm2BmIjtc/S7ZwZRn4mFI/AAAAAAAALQY/9adN70fVUAU/s1600/chart+jobs.jpg
No, we don't think they are lying, but the chart is misleading because of two things.

First, the chart is only measuring a rate of change in unemployment. So we could sit just above the 0 line for some time and according to you, that would be all fine and dandy. But as we know, unemployment would still be high since you need to add a certain number of jobs per month to actually go anywhere. Plus, the BLS regularly readjusts their numbers downward. This was the case during the winter season when the numbers reported were optimistic and showed job growth, yet the seasonally adjusted numbers showed we actually lost jobs.

The other problem is that macroeconomic trends don't change on a dime, they take time to take affect. Regardless if you're a Keynesian, a supply-sider, or an Austrian economist, a policy change implemented by the government doesn't usually affect economic production overnight (unless you nationalize, ban, or tax the crap out of a certain industry). Markets also don't tend to just bleed on forever, there's an eventual "clotting" that, after the bad investments are liquidated, the economy picks up again. The problem today is that the government didn't really allow that. The banks that screwed up got bailed out and the stimulus bill so far went towards saving government-favored jobs in a very inefficient manner. Bush and Obama didn't let the markets liquidate themselves and with an uncertain regulatory climate combined with the bad investments still there, businesses aren't going to be hiring at a quick pace.

Plus, I can show you a totally different picture using the same numbers:

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obamajobsgraph2.jpg
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obamajobsgapfeb.gif

NJCardFan
07-26-2010, 08:45 PM
The poll says Public option.

You are refering to the Obama health care plan that is now law.

It's not the same thing.

And once again, the key word here is option. I even went so far to supply you with the Merriam-Webster definition of option and how it's easy to understand that people might want it. However, you're ilk don't want it as an option. They want it to be mandatory and for everyone to pay for that "option" whether or not they want it so it's not much of an option is it?

Satanicus
07-27-2010, 07:12 AM
And once again, the key word here is option. I even went so far to supply you with the Merriam-Webster definition of option and how it's easy to understand that people might want it. However, you're ilk don't want it as an option. They want it to be mandatory and for everyone to pay for that "option" whether or not they want it so it's not much of an option is it?

I know the definition of Option.

And thats what the American people want.

lacarnut
07-27-2010, 07:35 AM
:

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obamajobsgapfeb.gif

Looks like the Magic Negro is short 9 million jobs while pissing away 800 billion in stimulus that had very little to do with creating jobs.

Odysseus
07-27-2010, 10:09 AM
Polling in the newsroom of the NY Times is usually not a good way to get a representative sample of American opinion.

BTW, glad to see that you have time to start new threads. Care to stop in one that was set up just for you? http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?p=292929#post292929

Zathras
07-27-2010, 11:02 AM
I know the definition of Option.

And thats what the American people want.

Ok Stupidicus, you just keep thinking that. When you realise you're absolutely wrong you can come back and say you're sorry.

Oh, and by the way Stupidicus, your presence is requested HERE (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=30137)....if you have the guts that is....which I think you don't, being a waste of skin coward that can't form an independent thought in his empty little skull.

Molon Labe
07-27-2010, 02:40 PM
I know the definition of Option.

And thats what the American people want.



The public option is a farce because it simply perpetuates that this 2nd "choice" is the only other option.

A truly free market (http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279)(which we don't have) would bring about more options than you could ever imagine.... we currently have only one option. HMOs, government dependancy...or nothing.

malloc
07-27-2010, 03:01 PM
The public option is a farce because it simply perpetuates that this 2nd "choice" is the only other option.

A truly free market (http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279)(which we don't have) would bring about more options than you could ever imagine.... we currently have only one option. HMOs, government dependancy...or nothing.

Not to mention the fact, that the main choice we have, HMO's, aren't even a result of the free market, but are the result of an act of Congress:



The new year begins as employees begin a process called open enrollment--when many employees designate a health plan through their employer. Unfortunately, most are forced to enroll in a managed care plan, i.e., an HMO or PPO. That's right: force actually lies at the core of today's health care system.

From their beginnings, HMOs were designed--by Democrats and Republicans--to eliminate individual health insurance. The result is a vast network of health care collectives (HMOs, PPOs, Point-of-Service plans) created by government that are destined to do harm to individuals.

The individual was first discouraged from buying insurance in 1942 when employee health premiums were made tax deductible to employers--not to individuals. Congress created Medicare in 1965, making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance. As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for everyone's health care and promoted the idea of a health maintenance organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.

President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual. The government had effectively instituted HMOs, at the insistence of the left and the capitulation of conservatives and pragmatic businessmen.

REST OF ARTICLE (http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/index.php?news=2819)

Molon Labe
07-27-2010, 03:16 PM
Not to mention the fact, that the main choice we have, HMO's, aren't even a result of the free market, but are the result of an act of Congress:

I've tried to show him that history before to no debate....thus no avail. He's all about the current flavor of the week "public option".

For a libertard, he's one of the most closed minded myopic ones I've ever come across on the internets.

Lager
07-27-2010, 03:47 PM
Satanicus, someone politely called you out to debate some specific issues in a dome thread. Are you going to respond? Are you up to the challenge? Why don't you viisit the post and flaunt your amazing debating skills. With your new Obama tattoo, you must feel invinciible.

Molon Labe
07-27-2010, 04:08 PM
6 in 10 want the public option.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13203651



about half of those that want a public option don't even know what it means. :rolleyes:

how can someone want what they don't understand?


only 37 percent define "public option (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13203651)" correctly, a new national poll found.

swirling_vortex
07-27-2010, 05:05 PM
I know the definition of Option.

And thats what the American people want.
I hope you don't debate all people like that. Because you're certainly not going to win any arguments if all you believe is if what it's you believe. The point is how other people see it and if they understand the consequences of what government control over the health care industry will do. Don't you see the conflict in 3 out of 5 people wanting a "public option", yet half want repeal of the current law? Unless you can find more polling data, I think your sample was very liberally skewed. Now, could you not run away and also address my points on the unemployment figures I posted above?

Looks like the Magic Negro is short 9 million jobs while pissing away 800 billion in stimulus that had very little to do with creating jobs.
Don't forget this little gem. Remember, this was what the administration told us why we had to pass the stimulus:

http://ginacobb.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c2c6053ef0120a7b6b83a970b-500wi

Whoops, Keynes did it again! :p

BadCat
07-27-2010, 06:01 PM
http://www.saidaonline.com/en/newsgfx/cherry%20pie-saidaonline.jpg

Satanicus
07-27-2010, 06:44 PM
I hope you don't debate all people like that. Because you're certainly not going to win any arguments if all you believe is if what it's you believe. The point is how other people see it and if they understand the consequences of what government control over the health care industry will do. Don't you see the conflict in 3 out of 5 people wanting a "public option", yet half want repeal of the current law? Unless you can find more polling data, I think your sample was very liberally skewed. Now, could you not run away and also address my points on the unemployment figures I posted above?


The public option would shave 68 BILLION off the national debt by 2020, stop acting like it is so costly and the people don't understand it.

swirling_vortex
07-27-2010, 07:24 PM
The public option would shave 68 BILLION off the national debt by 2020, stop acting like it is so costly and the people don't understand it.
So let me get this straight. You think that by the government seizing and controlling an entire industry will somehow end up creating a surplus? Yes, you certainly say that it's from the CBO, but you should also note that the CBO has constantly lowballed their deficits for programs like Medicare. Keep in mind that they said the same thing about Obama's health care bill, yet once it passed a new report said that it would end up making the deficit worse. Or you could do some fancy accounting and simply move a chunk of the debt into the unfunded liabilities category. Right now, Medicare has unfunded liabilities that exceed $60 trillion. That's over 4 times bigger than the entire economic output of the US! And it's only going to get worse. I'm afraid that you're not quite getting it.

But hey, why stop there? Let's give everybody free food and free housing. After all, those evil grocery stores charge so high a price for everything and those banks are so greedy since they kick people out of their homes. It is in our best interest to nationalize them and distribute it to the hard working people. And maybe, we can even run a surplus, provided we give everybody bread and water and make everyone live in a one room house. Of course, that would be the fair thing to do, right?

Oh, and you still haven't responded to my response about macroeconomic trends. If you do not address that, I will assume that I have simply corrected for your silly mistake and we'll move on from there.

Satanicus
07-27-2010, 07:29 PM
59% of the American people want a Public Option.

swirling_vortex
07-27-2010, 07:58 PM
59% of the American people want a Public Option.
You are quite the parrot, aren't you? Although I've seen more intelligent parrots do more things than repeat phrases over and over again. In your case, that would be talking points.

Well, since you won't do a google search yourself, I found another poll.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/32_favor_single_payer_health_care_57_oppose


Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters nationwide favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.

Fifty-two percent (52%) believe such a system would lead to a lower quality of care while 13% believe care would improve. Twenty-seven percent (27%) think that the quality of care would remain about the same.

Forty-five percent (45%) also say a single-payer system would lead to higher health care costs while 24% think lower costs would result. Nineteen percent (19%) think prices would remain about the same.
It's older, but I don't think the number would be higher than 32% at this point.

warpig
07-27-2010, 08:08 PM
This dude has never really seen government inefficiency in action.

Zathras
07-28-2010, 04:08 AM
59% of the American people want a Public Option.

http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/bc2f7679-01b8-4253-9c95-8c0a81b72e15.jpg

Odysseus
07-28-2010, 09:32 AM
59% of the American people want a Public Option.

Quite the little parrot, you are. But, in fact, that poll had some interesting flaws. According to pollster.com (http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_public_option_no_perfect_p.php), the phrasing of the question creates radically different outcomes.


ABC News summary: 2009 polling on a “public option”
Support Oppose No opin. Wording
8/17 ABC/Post 52 46 2 “gov’t create”
8/17 NBC/WSJ 43 47 10 “administered” by fed gov’t
8/11 Kaiser 59 38 3 “similar to Medicare”
8/3 Quinnipiac 62 32 6 “gov’t… insurance plan”
7/28 CBS/NYT 66 27 7 “like… Medicare”
7/28 Time 56 36 8 “gov’t-sponsored”
7/26 Pew 52 37 10 “gov’t… insurance plan”
7/22 Fox 44 48 7 “gov’t-run”

Note that when the phrase is "government-run," support drops to 44% and opposition increases to48%. Similar drops occur when asked to support a government administered plan. When, however, it's presented as one of many "options" or an insurance plan backed by the government, like Medicare, support increases. The reason is that most people don't realize that a public option will not be an option for long, but will eventually become the default setting, at which point health care will become "government-run" or "administered by" the federal government, at which point, opposition rises. This, of course, was the intent of Democrats when they dropped the phrase "single payer," which people understand, and implemented public option. It's smoke and mirrors.

BTW, in case you missed it the first dozen times, here's the link to my question about liberals and media accountability (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=30137). You wouldn't want us to think that you're a cowardly little troll who can't answer a simple question, would you?

Molon Labe
07-28-2010, 09:44 AM
I say screw the public option......more private citizens making more private choices is the key. Less government control and more freedom please

The Lie (http://mises.org/Community/blogs/not-a-lemming/archive/2009/08/20/the-single-payer-lie.aspx)


there is one point in the single-payer approach to healthcare that is a clear cut lie being pandered by the left. It goes something like this. Healthcare is too expensive so we need a "public option." This public option, it is said by many long time supporters of a single payer system, will foster competition between insurance companies and result in lower rates.

How choices are destroyed


Single payer, however, means the legislative elimination of all competition. So on the one hand they are saying that the public option is good because it will increase competition and thereby reduce costs, while on the other hand they are on record as favoring a plan that will eliminate all competition. And no-competition always means only one thing, higher prices.


The Danger's of Step legislation


what does a career bureaucrat do when he wants something he can't get? He introduces step legislation. Step legislation can come in two forms. It can be written badly so that interpretation by judges can give the bill's supporters what they want. Or, it can begin the process, increase people's dependency, hamstringing the competition, so that bills introduced later will face less and less resistance. Current versions of the healthcare bill in the house and senate take both approaches.

Satanicus
07-28-2010, 10:12 AM
Quite the little parrot, you are. But, in fact, that poll had some interesting flaws. According to pollster.com (http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_public_option_no_perfect_p.php), the phrasing of the question creates radically different outcomes.



Note that when the phrase is "government-run," support drops to 44% and opposition increases to48%. Similar drops occur when asked to support a government administered plan


And all the rest of the polls have a positive rating. Only 2 of the 8 polls are negative.

Thanks for proving my point.

Molon Labe
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
I want a private option...I want more freedom please (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-5444&tab=summary).


Private Option Health Care Act - Repeals the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 and restores the provisions of law amended or repealed by such Acts as if such Acts had not been enacted. Amends the Internal Revenue Code to:

(1) revise the refundable tax credit for the health insurance costs of individual taxpayers to allow a full credit for health insurance plus the amount contributed to a health savings account;

2) permit up to $500 of unused health benefits under a health flexible spending arrangement to be carried over to a succeeding plan year or paid directly to an employee as compensation;

(3) revise the tax deduction for contributions to a health savings account (HSA) to increase the allowable amount of such deduction and repeal the requirement for coverage under a high deductible health plan;

(4) repeal the 7.5% adjusted gross income threshold for the tax deduction for medical expenses;

(5) allow a tax credit for the purchase of insurance against negative outcomes from surgery, including those caused by physician malpractice; and

(6) allow an exclusion from gross income for damages awarded for medical malpractice in binding arbitration. Permits interstate purchase of health insurance. Amends the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) to repeal provisions restricting the importation of prescription drugs.

swirling_vortex
07-28-2010, 11:48 AM
And all the rest of the polls have a positive rating. Only 2 of the 8 polls are negative.

Thanks for proving my point.
He didn't prove your point at all. He simply showed you that when the definition of "public option" includes what it's supposed to be, people are more opposed to it. What you want to do is deceive people into believing that a public option can be created without no impact on the private insurance industry or without higher taxes.

Satanicus
07-28-2010, 11:59 AM
He didn't prove your point at all. He simply showed you that when the definition of "public option" includes what it's supposed to be, people are more opposed to it. What you want to do is deceive people into believing that a public option can be created without no impact on the private insurance industry or without higher taxes.

It shows the EXACT OPPOSITE.

When the name of the PO is changed into 8 different terms , just like the polls show , only 2 of the 8 terms produce a negative rating.

Add in the term 'public option' to the polls and it is only 2 out of 9 terms produce a negative rating.

But you think this shows "more opposed" ?

NJCardFan
07-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Missing here is that Stupidicus' poll is over a year old. Let a poll ask the right question and we'll see how it polls. The righ question would be would you be in favor of a government run single payer system. I'd be willing to bet that the poll numbers would reflect a different tune.

In January, Rasmussen polled that only 34% favor a single payer healthcare system (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/34_favor_single_payer_health_care_system). 34% approve. 52%(a majority where I come from) oppose it while 14% aren't sure(in other words, are brain dead idiots). Poll went by ideological lines. 73% of liberals were for it while 73% of conservatives were against it. No surprise there. Now Rasmussen polls generally reflect a conservative slant, however, I don't see that much of a polling difference no matter how it's sliced.

swirling_vortex
07-28-2010, 01:41 PM
It shows the EXACT OPPOSITE.

When the name of the PO is changed into 8 different terms , just like the polls show , only 2 of the 8 terms produce a negative rating.

Add in the term 'public option' to the polls and it is only 2 out of 9 terms produce a negative rating.

But you think this shows "more opposed" ?
No, it shows exactly as I said it would show. When you don't dilute the definition of "public option" to mean "public handout", then you'll see more people against it.

asdf2231
07-30-2010, 02:21 PM
It shows the EXACT OPPOSITE.

When the name of the PO is changed into 8 different terms , just like the polls show , only 2 of the 8 terms produce a negative rating.

Add in the term 'public option' to the polls and it is only 2 out of 9 terms produce a negative rating.

But you think this shows "more opposed" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YceTblLkS8Y&feature=PlayList&p=C3E3D830CD5A0900.