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View Full Version : Fox News Poll: Americans Say Iraq War Worth It



warpig
09-04-2010, 08:33 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/03/fox-news-poll-americans-value-iraq-involvement/

Despite its contentious history, most American voters appear to have made a positive judgment about the country's efforts in Iraq. Almost six in 10 (58 percent) voters think, overall, the United States "did the right thing" by going to war, according to the latest Fox News poll.

A little over one-third of voters (35 percent) take the opposite view -- that the U.S. "did the wrong thing" by becoming involved militarily in Iraq. From a partisan perspective, there is still division -- as 54 percent of Democrats think the U.S. did the wrong thing in Iraq, while only 14 percent of Republicans feel the same way. A slim majority of independents (52 percent) think the U.S. did the right thing in Iraq.

hazlnut
09-04-2010, 09:12 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/03/fox-news-poll-americans-value-iraq-involvement/

Despite its contentious history, most American voters appear to have made a positive judgment about the country's efforts in Iraq. Almost six in 10 (58 percent) voters think, overall, the United States "did the right thing" by going to war, according to the latest Fox News poll.

Do men ever admit it when they get lost and don't know where the hell they are? Will Americans ever admit a mistake of this size and scope?



A little over one-third of voters (35 percent) take the opposite view -- that the U.S. "did the wrong thing" by becoming involved militarily in Iraq. From a partisan perspective, there is still division -- as 54 percent of Democrats think the U.S. did the wrong thing in Iraq, while only 14 percent of Republicans feel the same way. A slim majority of independents (52 percent) think the U.S. did the right thing in Iraq.

Ah, a country divided. Any new news?

m00
09-04-2010, 11:09 PM
I'm pretty sure the poll didn't accurately reflect the complex emotions associated with the war.

hazlnut
09-05-2010, 09:58 AM
How many polled actually fought or had someone in their family who fought?

PoliCon
09-05-2010, 10:22 AM
How many polled actually fought or had someone in their family who fought?

I'll bet a larger percentage than you think. Most of our armed service members believe in this country and in liberty - as do their families - hence why more conservatives serve than progressives who only care about their own asses, comfort, and power.

Wei Wu Wei
09-05-2010, 11:07 AM
A collective form of Buyers Remorse, a type of cognitive dissonance. People will rather insist no matter what that the war was "worth it", especially if they paid a particularly high price (such as a lost family member), otherwise the absurdity of having lost a loved one "for no good reason" would drag the person down into despair.

Rockntractor
09-05-2010, 11:14 AM
A collective form of Buyers Remorse, a type of cognitive dissonance. People will rather insist no matter what that the war was "worth it", especially if they paid a particularly high price (such as a lost family member), otherwise the absurdity of having lost a loved one "for no good reason" would drag the person down into despair.
Pure conjecture with no basis in fact. FAIL!

Apache
09-05-2010, 11:44 AM
A collective form of Buyers Remorse, a type of cognitive dissonance. People will rather insist no matter what that the war was "worth it", especially if they paid a particularly high price (such as a lost family member), otherwise the absurdity of having lost a loved one "for no good reason" would drag the person down into despair.

15 hours, and that's all you could come up with...:rolleyes:

Zathras
09-05-2010, 02:13 PM
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0b389b6a-024a-44e4-a481-9049cd807b87.jpg

Fixed for accuracy.

m00
09-05-2010, 03:38 PM
How many polled actually fought or had someone in their family who fought?

Do you honestly feel this is required to have a valid opinion on a given war?

m00
09-05-2010, 03:41 PM
A collective form of Buyers Remorse, a type of cognitive dissonance. People will rather insist no matter what that the war was "worth it", especially if they paid a particularly high price (such as a lost family member), otherwise the absurdity of having lost a loved one "for no good reason" would drag the person down into despair.

I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not going to pretend to know the degree which this is true, and the circumstances under which it is often true. But I do think in general people are perfectly capable of freeing their judgment from personal prejudices and emotional attachment. Whether this capability is often exercised I do not know. So, do you have any non-anecdotal evidence of such cognitive dissonance in the particular issue of the Iraqi war?

Or, are you a psychological professional and speaking from experience?

hazlnut
09-05-2010, 09:28 PM
Will Fox News ever poll the Iraqi people??

Please be sure to ask this man if the war was worth it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00164/Pg-04-iraq-getty_164976s.jpg

warpig
09-05-2010, 09:38 PM
Your sure he's from Iraq??

PoliCon
09-05-2010, 09:53 PM
Will Fox News ever poll the Iraqi people??

Please be sure to ask this man if the war was worth it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00164/Pg-04-iraq-getty_164976s.jpg

of course as a progressive you blame America first. Couldn't possibly be anyone else's fault.

Sonnabend
09-06-2010, 06:28 AM
You'll note there is no detail as to where and when this photo was taken.:rolleyes:

djones520
09-06-2010, 06:39 AM
Will Fox News ever poll the Iraqi people??

Please be sure to ask this man if the war was worth it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00164/Pg-04-iraq-getty_164976s.jpg

Why don't you ask these people?

http://www.foxnews.com/images/141588/0_22_101304_iraq_mass_grave.jpg

Why don't you ask that father if he blames the American's, or the terrorists who did that?

While we're at it, why don't you go fuck yourself.

hazlnut
09-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Why don't you ask these people?

http://www.foxnews.com/images/141588/0_22_101304_iraq_mass_grave.jpg

Why don't you ask that father if he blames the American's, or the terrorists who did that?

While we're at it, why don't you go fuck yourself.

Thank you for revealing idiocy beyond comprehension... The insurgents showed up after we did, moron. And they showed up because we did.

While you're at it, have the Teatards over at FOX NEWS ask these two men if the war was worth it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01215/children-bodies_1215884i.jpg

WW II was worth it.

The Teabrains at FOX and the sheep that watch them have no concept of war.

BadCat
09-06-2010, 09:46 AM
What are the pictures of, moonbat?

Who caused the "injuries"?

Man, I really hate people like you.

djones520
09-06-2010, 09:48 AM
Apparently it's our fault BC. Terrorist can't be held responsible for their activities, because the big bad US of A was there. :rolleyes:

It's mouthbreathers like you who give retard a definition Hazle.

warpig
09-06-2010, 10:37 AM
WW II was worth it.

The Teabrains at FOX and the sheep that watch them have no concept of war.

And you have no concept of who we are dealing with here.

PoliCon
09-06-2010, 10:38 AM
apparently any pic of a middle eastern looking man carrying an injured or dead child is proof that America is evil and Bush is the evilest.

m00
09-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Halznut - so I could win this debate by putting up more images of people tortured by Saddam? Cuz Saddam killed/tortured/injured a lot more people than we did.

swirling_vortex
09-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Will Fox News ever poll the Iraqi people??

Please be sure to ask this man if the war was worth it:
So in your mind, what do you think would've happened if we didn't go to war? How many more Americans would've died at the feet of your ideology? Do you believe that those terrorist groups would've simply left us alone if we ignored them?

WW II was worth it.
Really now? That seems a bit like a contraction on your terms. In WWII, we basically went through an area, carpet bombed it, sent infantry through, and moved on to the next location. This decade, we have taken great care to not repeat that and put troops over there to ensure civilian safety.

The Teabrains at FOX and the sheep that watch them have no concept of war.
Somehow, I don't think you have a concept of war. I'm sure some of the service members around here would tell you the same thing.

djones520
09-06-2010, 10:51 AM
It would be wasted effort Swirling. He wouldn't listen to us anyways.

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 11:47 PM
Thank you for revealing idiocy beyond comprehension... The insurgents showed up after we did, moron. And they showed up because we did.

While you're at it, have the Teatards over at FOX NEWS ask these two men if the war was worth it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01215/children-bodies_1215884i.jpg

WW II was worth it.

The Teabrains at FOX and the sheep that watch them have no concept of war.

You have no clue what you're talking about, and you've managed to insult every veteran on this board, myself included, with your ignorance.

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 02:04 AM
Halliburton continues to do well. Thanks Dickie!!

Halliburton wins Iraq oil contract (http://www.ameinfo.com/240406.html)


An Iraqi oil official has said Iraq, along with oil and gas major Royal Dutch Shell and Malaysia's Petronas, has awarded a contract to Halliburton to drill 15 oil wells in the giant Majnoon oilfield, Reuters has reported. Petrofac also secured a contract to build two crude processing plants with a capacity of 50,000 barrels per day (bpd) each and to rehabilitate the existing crude plant, the official added. "These contracts are part of implementing the preliminary plan to develop Majnoon oilfield for the next two years," the oil official told the news service on condition of anonymity.

Jeez, Halliburton overcharged us for 1.4 Billion according to the Pentagon!

Good thing we left those 50K troops behind to help keep the oil flowing.

If all was fair and just in the world, the U.S. taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for gas for next 2-3 years. I mean, until we've been repaid the $900 billion and 4,404 lives.

CueSi
09-09-2010, 02:10 AM
How many polled actually fought or had someone in their family who fought?

File this under the "You're not a woman, therefore you can't have an opinon about abortion".

Christ, you're an arrogant dumbcvnt who is too dumb to know he has very little to be arrogant about.

~QC

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 02:24 AM
You have no clue what you're talking about, and you've managed to insult every veteran on this board, myself included, with your ignorance.

I'm talking about the 104,595 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict.

The war was a series colossal blunders and piss-poor planning--all fueled by Political ambition and corporate greed. The American military did as they always do, served with honor.

Honor and moral justification are not one in the same. Men and women served to their best of their abilities. In the end, their country is proud of them. But history and God will judge their leader.

BTW -- read the actual poll questions in the pdf file attached to the story -- blatant push polling. What a joke. The dishonest and leading phrasing of those questions dishonors the troops.

Zathras
09-09-2010, 02:29 AM
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0b389b6a-024a-44e4-a481-9049cd807b87.jpg

Fixed for accuracy.

Hey DUmbass, no one here gives a flying fuck about the opinions of a waste of skin coward so shut the fuck up and take a long walk off a short pier.

Sonnabend
09-09-2010, 09:10 AM
Hazlnutbag seems to have swallowed the entire HuffPo database.:rolleyes:

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 11:04 AM
apparently any pic of a middle eastern looking man carrying an injured or dead child is proof that America is evil and Bush is the evilest.
No, it's putting things in perspective for FOX NEWS sheep who are too dense to know a Push Poll when they hear one.

Jfor
09-09-2010, 11:14 AM
I blame America first for everything wrong in this country

Fixed it for you dipshit.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 11:49 AM
No, it's putting things in perspective for FOX NEWS sheep who are too dense to know a Push Poll when they hear one.

Demonstrate that the poll in question was a push poll. Don't just make the claim - show the evidence.

Odysseus
09-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Halliburton continues to do well. Thanks Dickie!!
Halliburton wins Iraq oil contract (http://www.ameinfo.com/240406.html)
Jeez, Halliburton overcharged us for 1.4 Billion according to the Pentagon!
Good thing we left those 50K troops behind to help keep the oil flowing.
If all was fair and just in the world, the U.S. taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for gas for next 2-3 years. I mean, until we've been repaid the $900 billion and 4,404 lives.
Halliburton got the LOGCAP contract under Clinton. They charged us for doing things that used to be done by military personnel, who were RIF'ed as part of Clinton's "Peace Dividend." All of those 92Gs (cooks), for example, who were removed from the line units and replaced by contracted DFACs, or combat engineers who were replaced by civilians, all of those changes were cheap in peacetime, but the minute that we went to war, the costs mounted.

Do men ever admit it when they get lost and don't know where the hell they are? Will Americans ever admit a mistake of this size and scope?
I guess you haven't been watching Obama's poll numbers.

I'm talking about the 104,595 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict.

The war was a series colossal blunders and piss-poor planning--all fueled by Political ambition and corporate greed. The American military did as they always do, served with honor.

If we "served with honor," then on whom do you lay the blame for those 104,595 civilian deaths (a ridiculously exact statistics, as even the highly partisan Iraqbodycount.org only gives a range, and we'll discuss their methodology in a moment)? The politicians didn't pull the triggers or direct the fire, we did. If the casualties are the result of US action, then you are accusing American military personnel of committing war crimes en masse.

Now, let's break down the numbers, shall we? In the last 24 hours, IBC.org cited the following incidents:
Baghdad: 8 killed in various attacks.
Mosul: 1 journalist by gunfire, 1 in grenade attack.
Kirkuk: 2 by IED.
Falluja: 2 by AED.
Baquba: 1 by gunfire.
Mandili: 1 farmer killed by IED.

That adds up to 15 dead. Of those, 5 were killed by IEDs or AEDs. Coalition troops don't use IEDs or AEDs. We engage with direct fire weapons. So right off the bat, one third of the deaths cited came from insurgent activities. Of the remainder, IBC.org doesn't make a distinction between terrorists in civilian clothing and civilians, nor do they make a distinction between casualties inflicted by US forces, Iraqi Government forces, or terrorists. But, the New England Journal of Medicine, which did a detailed study of casualty reports from 2003-2008, did a far more detailed study. Their findings:


We based our data set on the number of Iraqi civilian deaths recorded as of June 13, 2008, for the 5-year period of analysis, March 20, 2003, through March 19, 2008. Of the total of 91,358 Iraqi civilian deaths from armed violence recorded for this period, we excluded 10,027 deaths from prolonged violence (e.g., the two sieges of Fallujah and prolonged episodes of violence during the invasion of March 20, 2003, through April 30, 2003), and 20,850 deaths recorded only in aggregate reports from morgues and hospitals, since these deaths were not reliably linked to specific events of a weapon's use. As our table
Numbers of Iraqi Civilians, Female Civilians, and Children Killed by Particular Weapons in Short-Duration Events of Armed Violence, March 20, 2003, through March 19, 2008. (See interactive table.) shows, we focused on the remaining 60,481 deaths of Iraqi civilians and the causative weapons in 14,196 armed-violence events considered to be of short duration (lasting up to two calendar dates), occurring in an identifiable location, and directly causing one or more reported civilian deaths. Each death included in the table is of an individual noncombatant and is linked to a type of weapon used in a specific time and place; these are not estimates extrapolated from a sample.

The greatest proportion of victims ó 19,706 of 60,481, or 33% ó were killed by execution after abduction or capture. Of the bodies of those who were executed, 5760, or 29%, showed marks of torture, such as bruises, drill holes, or burns. (A typical media report about this particularly appalling form of violent death reads: ďThe bullet-riddled bodies bore signs of torture and their hands were tied behind their backs.Ē) Iraqi civilians also suffered heavy tolls from small-arms gunfire in open shootings and firefights (20% of deaths), apart from executions involving gunfire, and from suicide bombs (14% of deaths).

The table shows another 5% killed by roadside bombs. Since US forces don't kidnap, torture and execute civilians, nor do we use suicide bombs or plant IEDs, 52% of the deaths were the direct result of actions by the insurgents which deliberately targeted non-combatants. Of the remainder, 20% were killed by small arms fire, which is not attributed to either side, but given that US forces operated under strict rules of engagement, and the terrorists don't (and their most common means of target acquisition is "spray and pray"), I'd be shocked if more than 10% of those casuatlies were caused by US/allied units. BTW, the only weapon exclusively used by US/Coalition forces in Iraq, the aerial munitions, accounted for a grand total of less than 7% of all civilian deaths. I.e., our weapon with the least control by the firer, the most likely to be used against area targets which might contain civilians, and the one therefore most likely to cause civilian deaths, was the one that caused the least, because of our ROE.

You want to blame someone for the Iraqi civilian dead, don't blame George W, Bush, Donald Rumsfeld or any of us who served under them, lay the blame where it belongs: On the monsters that we fought, and their enablers here who gave them aid and comfort by ignoring their crimes while accusing us of atrocities and incompetence.

lacarnut
09-09-2010, 02:42 PM
Hazlnut & WE Wee are Yellow belly cowards to serve in our Armed Forces. Their ilk's opinions are meaningless.

Molon Labe
09-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Demonstrate that the poll in question was a push poll. Don't just make the claim - show the evidence.

Look at the questions. If Fox engaged in one, the it won't be too hard to recognize one.

If you can't recognize that the standard practice of news networks is this type polling...then...oh well.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 02:56 PM
Look at the questions. If Fox engaged in one, the it won't be too hard to recognize one.

If you can't recognize that the standard practice of news networks is this type polling...then...oh well.

He made the claim - I'm not doing his work for him. If it's a push poll - then he can demonstrate it.

Molon Labe
09-09-2010, 03:01 PM
He made the claim - I'm not doing his work for him. If it's a push poll - then he can demonstrate it.

If you can't recognize one, then what will it matter?

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 03:14 PM
If you can't recognize one, then what will it matter?
WTF is your issue? Oh because I don't agree with something he said - that you agree with that makes me blind? If you think it's a fucking push poll - prove it or shut the fuck up about it. I don't imagine that that's asking too much.

Molon Labe
09-09-2010, 03:27 PM
WTF is your issue? Oh because I don't agree with something he said - that you agree with that makes me blind? If you think it's a fucking push poll - prove it or shut the fuck up about it. I don't imagine that that's asking too much.

Must hit some nerve. Yep you can't recognize one.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 03:47 PM
Must hit some nerve. Yep you can't recognize one.

Prove it's a push poll.

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Prove it's a push poll.

Read the pdf file attached to the story.

We can go question by question and I'll give you my take on why I think its a 'push poll'. --

Criteria:
Is there something in the phrasing the question that might make someone more inclined to answer one way or another?

Does the order of the questions seem deliberate in terms of leading someone toward a certain conclusion?
(unfortunately, they don't list questions 1-35--I wonder what they were--maybe just generic, income, education, etc.)

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 03:57 PM
Read the pdf file attached to the story.

We can go question by question and I'll give you my take on why I think its a 'push poll'. --

Criteria:
Is there something in the phrasing the question that might make someone more inclined to answer one way or another?

Does the order of the questions seem deliberate in terms of leading someone toward a certain conclusion?
(unfortunately, the don't list questions 1-35--I wonder what they were--maybe just generic, income, education, etc.)

well golly gee thanks Forest. I never would have known what a push poll is if you hadn't have stated the FUCKING OBVIOUS. :rolleyes:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo290/mindyobeeznis/20166_1202880552359_1238946535_3051.jpg

YOU claim it was a push poll. Prove it or shut the fuck up about it.

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 04:02 PM
well golly gee thanks Forest. I never would have known what a push poll is if you hadn't have stated the FUCKING OBVIOUS. :rolleyes:



YOU claim it was a push poll. Prove it or shut the fuck up about it.

Poli:

I was just attempting to come up with some general criteria for discussion -- not in any way trying to imply you didn't know what a push poll was. Sorry if it came off that way.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm reading something into it. If you want to go through the questions, I'm game.

But, let's both agree to be civil about it.:D

Molon Labe
09-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Prove it's a push poll.

prove it's valid. Your the one defending it.

Defending a MSM news poll is like defending a Michael Moore movie.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 04:08 PM
prove it's valid. Your the one defending it.

Defending a MSM news poll is like defending a Michael Moore movie.

I'm not defending a MSM poll. Try again.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 04:08 PM
Poli:

I was just attempting to come up with some general criteria for discussion -- not in any way trying to imply you didn't know what a push poll was. Sorry if it came off that way.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm reading something into it. If you want to go through the questions, I'm game.

But, let's both agree to be civil about it.:D

Post your evidence.

Molon Labe
09-09-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm not defending a MSM poll. Try again.

Yep......they're just (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch) good ol' alternative journalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation)

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Post your evidence.

Here's the pdf file: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/090310_Iraq_web.pdf

I don't know what's up with questions 1-35--it says 'released separately'. I would like to know what came before #36 -

36. Overall, do you think the United States did the right thing or the wrong thing going to war in Iraq, removing Saddam Hussein from power and helping the Iraqis establish a new government?

IMO - this question characterizes the war as only two things - removing Saddam / helping Iraqis establish new gov. They are pre-defining 'going to war in Iraq' as two overly simplistic things that most people would agree are positive--removing a dictator and establishing a new democratic Gov.

When trying to determine if an action was morally justified or 'worth' the cost/sacrifice, shouldn't a the person being polled be given some general stats on the war. Cost in dollars, cost in lives? Or at least be asked at some point what their estimate is on the cost of the war / loss of life / current living conditions in the country etc.

37. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: The Iraqi people are better off today because of the military action taken in Iraq by the U.S.-led coalition. Is that strongly or just somewhat (agree/disagree)?

This is a fair question on the surface -- but keep in mind, 'Iraqi people are better off today..." is a often repeated GOP talking point. Fox News regular viewers/ GOP supporters are likely to agree with a general statement that backs up their world view.

38. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: The United States and the world are safer today because of the U.S. military action taken in Iraq. Is that strongly or just somewhat (agree/disagree)?

Same comment at 37 - "The U.S. and the world are safer today..." often repeated talking point.

Both of those last two should not be agree/disagree. They're basically asking Do you agree with what your favorite news-based opinion show host says about the war? The question should be better off/same/worse off - type questions and avoid any phrase similar to a current partisan talking point.

e.g. The U.S. military action in Iraq a) improved the situation in that country b) had little or no overall effect c) worsened the conditions...

I'm glad I did this, the way Fox writes the questions is very interesting.

If you want to take the last 3 - I have to run out.

Odysseus
09-09-2010, 06:22 PM
Read the pdf file attached to the story.

We can go question by question and I'll give you my take on why I think its a 'push poll'. --

Criteria:
Is there something in the phrasing the question that might make someone more inclined to answer one way or another?
Does the order of the questions seem deliberate in terms of leading someone toward a certain conclusion?
(unfortunately, they don't list questions 1-35--I wonder what they were--maybe just generic, income, education, etc.)

Okay, let's look at the questions:


36. Overall, do you think the United States did the right thing or the wrong thing going to war in Iraq, removing Saddam Hussein from power and helping the Iraqis establish a new government?

Did we go to war in Iraq? Did we remove Saddam Hussein? Did we help the Iraqis establish a new government? Hmmmm... Yes. Does the phrasing incline someone to answer affirmatively? Apparently, quite a few Democrats didn't think so. But, let's see how an Oikophobic elitist would have phrased it:

Overall, do you think that Chimpy McBusHitler did the right thing or the wrong thing by lying our way into a war in which US forces butchered innocent Muslims? Much better...
37. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: The Iraqi people are better off today because of the military action taken in Iraq by the U.S.-led coalition. Is that strongly or just somewhat (agree/disagree)?

Again, let's ask it in a totally neutral ;):rolleyes: manner that would meet with your approval:

Do you agree with the following statement: Bush lied, people died. (agree/disagree because I am a bigoted Islamophobe).
38. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: The United States and the world are safer today because of the U.S. military action taken in Iraq. Is that strongly or just somewhat (agree/disagree)?


Again, clearly a provocative statement that commands assent. How about:

Do you agree with the following statement: The United States and the Planet are safer today because the warmonger chimp is out of office? (Agree/Strongly Agree/Disagree because I am secretly a genocidal racist with a monkey fetish)
39. If U.S. military action in Iraq is a success, who do you think deserves the most credit for that -- Barack Obama or George W. Bush? Obama Bush (Both) (Neither/Iraqis) (Don’t know)

Clearly, using U.S. military action and success in the same sentence forces people to think that the military might, possibly, be successful, when everyone this side of John Kerry knows what idiot losers we are. It must be rewritten.

If the U.S. genocide in Iraq results in enough dead Muslims to empower a Bush lackey, would you be in favor of blaming Bush for everything that goes wrong from then on? (Yes/YES!!!/no, but only because I own massive amounts of Halliburton stock and like to kick puppies)
40. In President Obama’s speech declaring the U.S. war in Iraq over, do you think he gave former President George W. Bush too much credit or not enough credit for removing Saddam Hussein, helping Iraqis form a new government and creating the conditions that allowed for the end of U.S. combat operations in Iraq? SCALE: 1. He gave Bush too much credit 2. He didn’t give Bush enough credit

Well, no wonder you consider this question controversial. Here's a more neutral, MSM way of putting it:

In President Obama's (MPBUH) magnificent, heartrending oratory, which was worthy of a Churchill (or would've been if Churchill wasn't such a disgusting imperialist), did he give former (hoorah! Yay!) President Chimpy and his puppeteer, the evil Rove/Darth Cheney, too much of a pass, or should he direct Eric Holder to file war crimes charges against the oil and blood-drenched thugs? (Yes, hang the bastards/Yes, but they should get lethal injections, because I oppose the death penalty as cruel and unusual unless applied to Republicans/Maybe, and I'm only hesitating because decades of watching FauxNews has warped my soul and made me unable to perceive true social justice).



Here's the pdf file: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/090310_Iraq_web.pdf

I'm glad I did this, the way Fox writes the questions is very interesting.
No doubt you'll find my revisions far more to your liking.

Here's If you want to take the last 3 - I have to run out.
Late for a pro-Hamas rally?

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 09:35 PM
No doubt you'll find my revisions far more to your liking.

I think David St. Hubbins said it best: It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.


Late for a pro-Hamas rally?

LOL, Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a 'rally'...*nudge-nudge*wink-wink*... if you know what I mean...;)

Besides, they said you were going to be there...pulling a train?

Zathras
09-09-2010, 09:41 PM
I think David St. Hubbins said it best: It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.

You never have crossed that line coward. You were born so deep on the stupid side you can't even see the line between clever and stupid with the Hubble telescope.



LOL, Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a 'rally'...*nudge-nudge*wink-wink*... if you know what I mean...;)

Ah, you were meeting the boys at the local YMCA for a little action at the meetling of the "Gutless Cowards of America".


Besides, they said you were going to be there...pulling a train?

Heh, you're the only one here qualified to pull a train coward.

gator
09-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why it was in the security interest of the US to invade Iraq when Saddam had nothing to do with 911. We know that lame excuse about weapons of mass destruction didnít work out too well. In fact it boggles the mind trying to figure out why the NeoCons sent the military to Iraq when the people that attacked us on 911 were mostly Saudi Arabians whose bosses lived in Afghanistan.

When our elected leaders listen to the demands of the foreign lobbyists instead of the needs of the American people we get into stupid wars that kill thousands of our soldiers and that is pathetic when you think about it.

What is really pathetic is the fact that we are basically getting our asses kicked in Afghanistan because for the last nine years we have been worrying about the Iraqis instead of taking care of the real business in Afghanistan. The one to three deaths everyday of American servicemen in Afghanistan is the price we are paying for a stupid military venture in Iraq. We should have completed the mission in Afghanistan years ago.

After spending his deployment over there my son tells me that Iraq is a shithole now and will continue to be a shithole after the Americans leave. He says the power factions are just waiting for the US to leave and the recent attacks since September 1st seems to be proof he is right. The Kurds are the only ones with their shit together.

I have no idea what the lives of the 4500 men and women bought the US. We are no safer now than we were in 2003 when we invaded. Saddam was not going to attack the US. Now the goddamn Israelis and the fucking Saudis are living fat and happy nowadays with Saddam gone and some of our elected officials got some nice paychecks out of it from foreign lobbyist like AIPAC but that is about it. I could care less if the Iraqis walk around with blue fingers or not. I would rather have the 4500 men and women walking around instead of filthy ass Iraqis with blue fingers, wouldnít you?

patriot45
09-09-2010, 11:00 PM
I agree. If we just stayed on the sidelines iraq and iran would have annihilated each other by now. We should have put our resources where they would have made a difference.

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 11:12 PM
I agree. If we just stayed on the sidelines iraq and iran would have annihilated each other by now. We should have put our resources where they would have made a difference.

What is that they say, hind site is 20/20.

patriot45
09-09-2010, 11:14 PM
No. Politicians do not have a clue about war. They have to take other things into consideration, and actually doing the right thing is not one of them!

warpig
09-10-2010, 07:54 AM
No. Politicians do not have a clue about war. They have to take other things into consideration, and actually doing the right thing is not one of them!

The only thing politicans know about wars is how to start one.

Molon Labe
09-10-2010, 07:55 AM
Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why it was in the security interest of the US to invade Iraq when Saddam had nothing to do with 911. We know that lame excuse about weapons of mass destruction didnít work out too well.

When our elected leaders listen to the demands of the foreign lobbyists instead of the needs of the American people we get into stupid wars that kill thousands of our soldiers and that is pathetic when you think about it.



I agree. If we just stayed on the sidelines iraq and iran would have annihilated each other by now. We should have put our resources where they would have made a difference.

This^ Thanks for the injection of some common sense into the thread.

Sonnabend
09-10-2010, 08:37 AM
Now the goddamn Israelis and the fucking Saudis are living fat and happy nowadays with Saddam gone and some of our elected officials got some nice paychecks out of it from foreign lobbyist like AIPAC but that is about it.

Thank you for the Hezbollah point of view.:rolleyes:

Zathras
09-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Thank you for the Hezbollah point of view.:rolleyes:

And this is why I have the Nazi fucktard Herr Gator on ignore.

Molon Labe
09-10-2010, 10:50 AM
No, it's putting things in perspective for FOX NEWS sheep who are too dense to know a Push Poll when they hear one.

After further reflection and review, this does not seem to meet the criteria for a classic push poll. Although it does come mighty close. You can try to correct me if you think I'm wrong. Still, it is a crappy poll with a few leading questions....but so is the nature of most of what is done on TV news.

Odysseus
09-10-2010, 03:59 PM
I think David St. Hubbins said it best: It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.
Yes, and allow me to point out, from the clever side, that if you ever make the transition over the line, it will be most welcome.

LOL, Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a 'rally'...*nudge-nudge*wink-wink*... if you know what I mean...;)

Besides, they said you were going to be there...pulling a train?
Sorry to disappoint you. You'll have to find your rough trade elsewhere.

I have no idea what the lives of the 4500 men and women bought the US. We are no safer now than we were in 2003 when we invaded. Saddam was not going to attack the US. Now the goddamn Israelis and the fucking Saudis are living fat and happy nowadays with Saddam gone and some of our elected officials got some nice paychecks out of it from foreign lobbyist like AIPAC but that is about it. I could care less if the Iraqis walk around with blue fingers or not. I would rather have the 4500 men and women walking around instead of filthy ass Iraqis with blue fingers, wouldnít you?
Hazlnut, meet Gator. Gator, Nut. You have a lot in common, none of it good.


After further reflection and review, this does not seem to meet the criteria for a classic push poll. Although it does come mighty close. You can try to correct me if you think I'm wrong. Still, it is a crappy poll with a few leading questions....but so is the nature of most of what is done on TV news.
Any poll which does not villify those who sent us will be inadequate in the eyes of Hazlnut. I'm sure that he feels that my revisions were more "neutral," just like MSNBC.

gator
09-10-2010, 04:06 PM
This^ Thanks for the injection of some common sense into the thread.

Conservatives really need to belly up to common sense on this. We need to understand that our elected officials do things that are not in the interest of our nation because of the pressures of foreign lobbies. Our elected official will sell out our country for political donations from filthy ass special interest groups like AIPAC. The Israelis are not the only ones that buy our officials but they are the best at it having forty years of practice. The Saudis and the South Koreans have really got good at it lately seeing the role model of the Israelis.

Conservative should understand the elected officials are selling out the troops by sending them off to fight wars for other countries when the war has little or nothing to do with the security of the US. We can support our troops when deployed because that is the right thing to do but when it comes time to go to the ballot box we need to ask ourselves who that elected official is really serving.

Elected officials that sell out America to foreign interest love to claim it is really in the interest of the US but that is seldom the case. The Iraq War is the doctorial on that BS. Saddam was never a threat to the US after the US pushed him out of Kuwait but as soon as Bush and the NeoCons had a half ass excuse they put together a 200,000 man invasion force and is still in the process of fighting that war seven years later. The US is no better off than it was in 2003 but the Saudis and the Israelis are safer. I am sorry but I donít want any American to die for a fucking Saudi or an Israelis or anybody else in the Middle East. Those pieces of shit are simply not worth it.

If Americans are sent off to some foreign place to die then it really needs to be for good reasons because the US is significantly threaten. The Iraq War doesnít even come close to meeting that criterion. Not by a long shot.

We need to honor the brave men and women that served their country and did their duty but that doesnít mean we canít hold the elected officials accountable that sent them off to die for nothing.

I will never vote for anybody a union or trial lawyer or environmental wacko supports. I think we Conservatives should add groups like IAPAC and other foreign lobbyists to that list. It is the right thing to do. If we are going to go to war it needs to be for the right reason and not because some filthy foreign lobbyist was able to drop off a nice little campaign donation or a series of individual donations to the bozos in Congress or the Oval Office.

Odysseus
09-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Conservatives really need to belly up to common sense on this. We need to understand that our elected officials do things that are not in the interest of our nation because of the pressures of foreign lobbies. Our elected official will sell out our country for political donations from filthy ass special interest groups like AIPAC. The Israelis are not the only ones that buy our officials but they are the best at it having forty years of practice. The Saudis and the South Koreans have really got good at it lately seeing the role model of the Israelis.

Do you ever get tired of Jew-baiting?

Molon Labe
09-10-2010, 04:50 PM
We DO have a problem with international lobbying by foreign nations. The suggestion is hardly Jew, Arab or any other kind of baiting.

gator
09-10-2010, 05:01 PM
We DO have a problem with international lobbying by foreign nations. The suggestion is hardly Jew, Arab or any other kind of baiting.

It is not baiting. The people that buy our elected officials happen to have nationalities. For the last 40 years the Israelis have been very good at that scam so they kinda of lead the list but they are not alone by a long shot. We provide protection to every Tom, David and Muhammad in the world just about.

For many years we protected the Europeans from the Soviets by stationing ground forces in Europe even though (Red Dawn notwithstanding) the Soviets were never going to launch a ground attack against the US.

Nowadays countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Israel and god only knows who else get their defense subsidized by the American taxpayer and like we found out in Iraq we even fight their wars for them on occasion.

At a time when our country is going bankrupt and we have a real unemployment rate of almost 20% and have lost our industrial base and our borders have been overrun I think it is time to look after our interest instead of every fucking foreigner with a lobby in DC, donít you agree?

Odysseus
09-10-2010, 05:13 PM
It is not baiting. The people that buy our elected officials happen to have nationalities. For the last 40 years the Israelis have been very good at that scam so they kinda of lead the list but they are not alone by a long shot. We provide protection to every Tom, David and Muhammad in the world just about.

For many years we protected the Europeans from the Soviets by stationing ground forces in Europe even though (Red Dawn notwithstanding) the Soviets were never going to launch a ground attack against the US.

Nowadays countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Israel and god only knows who else get their defense subsidized by the American taxpayer and like we found out in Iraq we even fight their wars for them on occasion.

At a time when our country is going bankrupt and we have a real unemployment rate of almost 20% and have lost our industrial base and our borders have been overrun I think it is time to look after our interest instead of every fucking foreigner with a lobby in DC, donít you agree?

You have repeatedly referred to Israelis as "filthy" and other lovely epithets. As there are Christian, Jewish and Muslim Israelis, would you be so kind as to clarify exactly which Israelis you were referring to?

gator
09-10-2010, 06:21 PM
Some traitorous Americans put the interest of some stupid ass foreign country ahead of the interest of their own county. I have exposed several of them on CU in times past but wonít bother with doing that again. I don't have enough respect for them to waste my time. Their justification for supporting foreign governments is so weak ass and anti American it is hardly even worth commenting on. Of course I may change my mind if they continue to make their stupid statements in defense of their beloved foreign country. Some of those countries even attacked the US and killed our servicemen and their spies are in our jails now for selling intelligence to the Soviets and technology to the Chinese but yet we still give the bastards money and send our brave young men and women off to die fighting their enemies.

Our country should not be in the business of protecting foreign countries. That is a no brainer at a time when are having significant economic problems and our borders are being overrun on a daily basis.

My son has given me some good insights on Iraq after he did his tour of duty. He says the soldiers show some compassion to the Iraqis but they donít really give a shit about them one way or another. He said no American soldier really gives much of a shit about the Middle East. They will do their duty but they are not fighting for the same stupid reasons the government sent them there to fight. Government officials bought and paid for by sleazy filthy organizations like AIPAC.

Bailey
09-10-2010, 06:40 PM
Some traitorous Americans put the interest of some stupid ass foreign country ahead of the interest of their own county. I have exposed several of them on CU in times past but wonít bother with doing that again. I don't have enough respect for them to waste my time. Their justification for supporting foreign governments is so weak ass and anti American it is hardly even worth commenting on. Of course I may change my mind if they continue to make their stupid statements in defense of their beloved foreign country. Some of those countries even attacked the US and killed our servicemen and their spies are in our jails now for selling intelligence to the Soviets and technology to the Chinese but yet we still give the bastards money and send our brave young men and women off to die fighting their enemies.

Our country should not be in the business of protecting foreign countries. That is a no brainer at a time when are having significant economic problems and our borders are being overrun on a daily basis.

My son has given me some good insights on Iraq after he did his tour of duty. He says the soldiers show some compassion to the Iraqis but they donít really give a shit about them one way or another. He said no American soldier really gives much of a shit about the Middle East. They will do their duty but they are not fighting for the same stupid reasons the government sent them there to fight. Government officials bought and paid for by sleazy filthy organizations like AIPAC.


I feel really bad for your son as he has a bigot for a father.

Bailey
09-10-2010, 06:42 PM
You have repeatedly referred to Israelis as "filthy" and other lovely epithets. As there are Christian, Jewish and Muslim Israelis, would you be so kind as to clarify exactly which Israelis you were referring to?

You really dont think you'll get anything but his normal anti-Israeli bullshit?

djones520
09-10-2010, 06:42 PM
I feel really bad for your son as he has a bigot for a father.

Consider yourself lucky. Two years ago the bigot would have just deleted your account.

Bailey
09-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Consider yourself lucky. Two years ago the bigot would have just deleted your account.

I dont know how someone gets through the day filled with such hate?:confused::confused:

djones520
09-10-2010, 06:47 PM
I dont know how someone gets through the day filled with such hate?:confused::confused:

I attribute it to being a wire that came loose somewhere. People here swear that there used to be something worth liking about this guy.

hampshirebrit
09-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Do you ever get tired of Jew-baiting?

He's as much baiting Arabs as he is Jews, if indeed he is baiting anyone.

So far, he's making some valid points, or at least some points that make good sense to me.

Bailey
09-10-2010, 06:54 PM
I attribute it to being a wire that came loose somewhere. People here swear that there used to be something worth liking about this guy.


I know of him but there's not much to like. IMHO

djones520
09-10-2010, 06:55 PM
He's as much baiting Arabs as he is Jews, if indeed he is baiting anyone.

So far, he's making some valid points, or at least some points that make sense to me.

You mean like how he pointed out the Major and I are traitors? Thats who he's referring to everytime he says that.

I'd even wager that the yarn he spun up about what his son said was 100% bull shit.

hampshirebrit
09-10-2010, 06:58 PM
You mean like how he pointed out the Major and I are traitors? Thats who he's referring to everytime he says that.

I'd even wager that the yarn he spun up about what his son said was 100% bull shit.

OK, show you are better than him then.

Debate him point for point on what he's discussing on this thread

djones520
09-10-2010, 07:12 PM
OK, show you are better than him then.

Debate him point for point on what he's discussing on this thread

I don't need to show I'm better then him. He does that everytime he posts. I've wasted plenty of good hours "debating" this guy. I've destroyed his arguments time and again, whether it be regarding the USS Liberty, or something as dumb as his assertation that the USSR didn't instigate the middle east arms race with Israel. What has it gotten me? A deleted account, and continually called a traitor to my country.

The better job you do at debating him, the nastier he gets with you. Look at how he treats the Major.

gator
09-10-2010, 07:48 PM
OK, show you are better than him then.

Debate him point for point on what he's discussing on this thread


Hamp I have kicked their NeocCon traitorous asses before. No need to do once again.

There will always be this faction of America whose loyalties are to some foreign country instead of their own country.

I just wish some of them could go down to the Arizona border and see the Mexican drug cartels taking over American soil and then explain to me why we have our Cavalry troops stationed in Iraq protecting the goddamn Israelis and the Saudis instead of on the border. That would be a real good explanation to get.

lacarnut
09-10-2010, 08:15 PM
Hamp I have kicked their NeocCon traitorous asses before. No need to do once again.

There will always be this faction of America whose loyalties are to some foreign country instead of their own country.

I just wish some of them could go down to the Arizona border and see the Mexican drug cartels taking over American soil and then explain to me why we have our Cavalry troops stationed in Iraq protecting the goddamn Israelis and the Saudis instead of on the border. That would be a real good explanation to get.

What the fuck is wrong with you. Calling two soldiers on this board traitorous is way over the top. When you were an Administrator, you would have banned any asshole that did that. To disagree with our polices with other countries is one thing but what you just did deserves being banned unless you apologize to to DJ and Odysseus. They are not traitorous and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying so.

Odysseus
09-10-2010, 09:21 PM
Some traitorous Americans put the interest of some stupid ass foreign country ahead of the interest of their own county. I have exposed several of them on CU in times past but wonít bother with doing that again. I don't have enough respect for them to waste my time. Their justification for supporting foreign governments is so weak ass and anti American it is hardly even worth commenting on. Of course I may change my mind if they continue to make their stupid statements in defense of their beloved foreign country. Some of those countries even attacked the US and killed our servicemen and their spies are in our jails now for selling intelligence to the Soviets and technology to the Chinese but yet we still give the bastards money and send our brave young men and women off to die fighting their enemies.

Our country should not be in the business of protecting foreign countries. That is a no brainer at a time when are having significant economic problems and our borders are being overrun on a daily basis.

My son has given me some good insights on Iraq after he did his tour of duty. He says the soldiers show some compassion to the Iraqis but they donít really give a shit about them one way or another. He said no American soldier really gives much of a shit about the Middle East. They will do their duty but they are not fighting for the same stupid reasons the government sent them there to fight. Government officials bought and paid for by sleazy filthy organizations like AIPAC.
Your son doesn't speak for all Soldiers. And you haven't answered my question. Exactly which Israelis do you find objectionable?

He's as much baiting Arabs as he is Jews, if indeed he is baiting anyone.

So far, he's making some valid points, or at least some points that make good sense to me.


OK, show you are better than him then.

Debate him point for point on what he's discussing on this thread
He won't debate. I've repeatedly asked him questions that he cannot answer, and he refuses to respond to me except to call me a traitor, and that's the least offensive term that he uses. Anyone here will tell you that I've run rings around him, but he's in his own world.

Hamp I have kicked their NeocCon traitorous asses before. No need to do once again.

There will always be this faction of America whose loyalties are to some foreign country instead of their own country.

I just wish some of them could go down to the Arizona border and see the Mexican drug cartels taking over American soil and then explain to me why we have our Cavalry troops stationed in Iraq protecting the goddamn Israelis and the Saudis instead of on the border. That would be a real good explanation to get.
And here you go again. No response, just hateful accusations of disloyalty to America. What's the matter, Gator? Can't answer a simple question? Better yet, why don't you link to some of the times that you've "kicked [my] NeoCon traitorous ass" so that everyone can see your debating skills? Hamps, why don't you ask him for the links, since he won't answer me.

What the fuck is wrong with you. Calling two soldiers on this board traitorous is way over the top. When you were an Administrator, you would have banned any asshole that did that. To disagree with our polices with other countries is one thing but what you just did deserves being banned unless you apologize to to DJ and Odysseus. They are not traitorous and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying so.
He's not capable of shame, just hate.

SaintLouieWoman
09-10-2010, 09:57 PM
What the fuck is wrong with you. Calling two soldiers on this board traitorous is way over the top. When you were an Administrator, you would have banned any asshole that did that. To disagree with our polices with other countries is one thing but what you just did deserves being banned unless you apologize to to DJ and Odysseus. They are not traitorous and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying so.

Lacarnut, you're right. I don't know what happened to Gator, but feel sorry for him and hope he doesn't continue doing what he formerly preached against, dishonoring our military members.

SarasotaRepub
09-10-2010, 10:05 PM
Consider yourself lucky. Two years ago the bigot would have just deleted your account.

:D

Gator, would you please watch it. Hey, I hear there are Ron Paul Supporters over on CC, why don't you go look???

lacarnut
09-11-2010, 02:04 AM
He's not capable of shame, just hate.

I am beginning to wonder if he has not joined the Nazi party. He certainly would fit in with all that hate.

asdf2231
09-11-2010, 05:52 AM
:D

Gator, would you please watch it. Hey, I hear there are Ron Paul Supporters over on CC, why don't you go look???


http://www.orlandoweekly.com/blog/images/star-wars-anonymous-rebel-pilot-sees-what-u-did-there.jpg

SarasotaRepub
09-11-2010, 07:49 AM
Tee,Hee. :D;)

gator
09-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Real Conservatism can be a bitter pill for a NeoCon to swallow. Showing the NeoCons the moral clarity of their destructiveness causes all kinds of hate. That is the last thing they want to hear. Let s put everything in the right perspective. Moral clarity, common sense and Conservative principles say:


You donít fight other peopleís wars for them. If an American soldier dies it needs to be for the real security of America and not because some filthy ass Middle East foreigner can live well.


You especially donít fight other peopleís wars for them when you are going bankrupted and your own borders are not sealed.


You donít elect people to government that takes lobby money from interest that represent foreign governments.


You question the motives of traitors Americans that scream and yell that the protection of some filthy Middle East apartheid theocracy is somehow vital to the security of the US. Especially when that theocracy has spies that sell American intelligence to the Soviets and American technology to the Chinese.


If somebody does attack the US then you go after them instead of invading another country that had nothing to do with the attack in the first place.


If somebody attacks an American ship and kills 34 Americans and wounds 180 more you donít give them a pass because their lobby channels a significant amount of money into your political party.


You question Necons (along with the Liberals) that preach progressive ideas under the guise of conservatism, even though it makes them upset.

djones520
09-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Yay for slipping the Liberty into this. :rolleyes:

Sonnabend
09-11-2010, 11:03 AM
You question the motives of traitors Americans that scream and yell that the protection of some filthy Middle East apartheid theocracy is somehow vital to the security of the US. Especially when that theocracy has spies that sell American intelligence to the Soviets and American technology to the Chinese.The Major pegged you right. You're a vicious, bitter old man, and I for another am glad you aren't an admin here anymore...you abused staff, you abused your position and your authority, you've accused the Major of disloyalty.

You should have been banned months ago. Your slurs against Odysseus alone should have gotten you banned permanently.

I don't know what got into you...nor do I care. I pity you.

CueSi
09-11-2010, 11:07 AM
The Major pegged you right. You're a vicious, bitter old man, and I for another am glad you aren't an admin here anymore...you abused staff, you abused your position and your authority, you've accused the Major of disloyalty.

You should have been banned months ago. Your slurs against Odysseus alone should have gotten you banned permanently.

I don't know what got into you...nor do I care. I pity you.

Yep. . . lord knows people got banhammered for less.

Now you know why I didn't come back until he was no longer an admin. You can't ignore admins. . .and I just wasn't gonna deal with his bullshit.

Gator's a fucking drinking game now... he calls someone a traitor, drink. He asks someone how dumb they are, drink. . . mention the Liberty, drink some Manechevitz.

~QC

Sonnabend
09-11-2010, 11:08 AM
Now you know why I didn't come back until he was no longer an admin. You can't ignore admins. . .and I just wasn't gonna deal with his bullshit.

Glad you did, CueSi :)

lacarnut
09-11-2010, 11:54 AM
Real Conservatism can be a bitter pill for a NeoCon to swallow. Showing the NeoCons the moral clarity of their destructiveness causes all kinds of hate. That is the last thing they want to hear. Let s put everything in the right perspective. Moral clarity, common sense and Conservative principles say:


You donít fight other peopleís wars for them. If an American soldier dies it needs to be for the real security of America and not because some filthy ass Middle East foreigner can live well.


You especially donít fight other peopleís wars for them when you are going bankrupted and your own borders are not sealed.


You donít elect people to government that takes lobby money from interest that represent foreign governments.


You question the motives of traitors Americans that scream and yell that the protection of some filthy Middle East apartheid theocracy is somehow vital to the security of the US. Especially when that theocracy has spies that sell American intelligence to the Soviets and American technology to the Chinese.


If somebody does attack the US then you go after them instead of invading another country that had nothing to do with the attack in the first place.


If somebody attacks an American ship and kills 34 Americans and wounds 180 more you donít give them a pass because their lobby channels a significant amount of money into your political party.


You question Necons (along with the Liberals) that preach progressive ideas under the guise of conservatism, even though it makes them upset.

None of what you said justifies calling two soldiers on this board traitorous. If you think so, you have some screws loose and need mental help.

Surprise, I am in the minority on the Iraq war. Don't think it was worth it, and we should get the fuck out and let the sand monkeys fight among themselves. Kuwait was a different story.

Just out of curiosity, how did DJ and Odysseus have anything to do with starting the wars. Your calling them traitorous is equal to calling your own son a fucking traitor. I can not believe the shit coming out of your mouth. Man up cause you need to apologize to them

djones520
09-11-2010, 12:06 PM
We're not "traitors" because of Iraq Lacar. It's because we "support" Israel. :rolleyes:

lacarnut
09-11-2010, 12:17 PM
We're not "traitors" because of Iraq Lacar. It's because we "support" Israel. :rolleyes:

Well, I guess I am one also along with an overwhelming majority of Americans. Maybe I should start referring to him as Seig Heil Gator. :rolleyes:

Odysseus
09-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Real Conservatism can be a bitter pill for a NeoCon to swallow. Showing the NeoCons the moral clarity of their destructiveness causes all kinds of hate. That is the last thing they want to hear. Let s put everything in the right perspective. Moral clarity, common sense and Conservative principles say:

You donít fight other peopleís wars for them. If an American soldier dies it needs to be for the real security of America and not because some filthy ass Middle East foreigner can live well.

You especially donít fight other peopleís wars for them when you are going bankrupted and your own borders are not sealed.

You donít elect people to government that takes lobby money from interest that represent foreign governments.

You question the motives of traitors Americans that scream and yell that the protection of some filthy Middle East apartheid theocracy is somehow vital to the security of the US. Especially when that theocracy has spies that sell American intelligence to the Soviets and American technology to the Chinese.

If somebody does attack the US then you go after them instead of invading another country that had nothing to do with the attack in the first place.

If somebody attacks an American ship and kills 34 Americans and wounds 180 more you donít give them a pass because their lobby channels a significant amount of money into your political party.

You question Necons (along with the Liberals) that preach progressive ideas under the guise of conservatism, even though it makes them upset.

And whenever anyone proves you wrong, you call them vile names and insult their patriotism, because you can't make the case for your assertions and your blind hatred won't let you back down. Why don't you mention how you threatened to go to my chain of command back when you were a mod? Bullies are cowards, Gator, and your refusal to talk issues, your endless vile insults and your threats mark you for the lying coward that you are.

To evertyone else, thanks for the support. It means a lot.

CueSi
09-11-2010, 12:27 PM
And whenever anyone proves you wrong, you call them vile names and insult their patriotism, because you can't make the case for your assertions and your blind hatred won't let you back down. Why don't you mention how you threatened to go to my chain of command back when you were a mod? Bullies are cowards, Gator, and your refusal to talk issues, your endless vile insults and your threats mark you for the lying coward that you are.

To evertyone else, thanks for the support. It means a lot.

If you were single, Major. :)

~QC

Odysseus
09-11-2010, 04:02 PM
If you were single, Major. :)

~QC

And about 15 years younger... :D

Sonnabend
09-11-2010, 09:27 PM
And a colonel :D

Odysseus
09-11-2010, 11:31 PM
And a colonel :D

Well, since we're fantasizing...

And if only I were 15 years younger, a colonel, a billionaire, and if only Gator were sane...

Molon Labe
09-12-2010, 04:17 PM
He's as much baiting Arabs as he is Jews, if indeed he is baiting anyone.

So far, he's making some valid points, or at least some points that make good sense to me.

Absolutely. It's NOT the people or citizens of those nations. It's their despotic governments. It's the governments that are the filthy ones.


The Federal government's and ruling parties does not equal AMERICANS, or ISRAELIS, or CHINESE, or IRAQIS.

Zathras
09-12-2010, 06:10 PM
And whenever anyone proves you wrong, you call them vile names and insult their patriotism, because you can't make the case for your assertions and your blind hatred won't let you back down. Why don't you mention how you threatened to go to my chain of command back when you were a mod? Bullies are cowards, Gator, and your refusal to talk issues, your endless vile insults and your threats mark you for the lying coward that you are.

To evertyone else, thanks for the support. It means a lot.

No problem major. The way I look at Herr Gator is he secretly supports all of the terrorist organisations that want to eliminate the state of Israel and has a hidden shrine to Adolf Hitler in his gun room that he worships at every day. I also feel sorry for his son that his father is such an ignorant, hate filled, piece of shit. Herr Gator is an oxygen thief, a coward and not worthy of being an American. That's also why I have his sorry ass on ignore so I don't have to read his ignorant, hate filled rantings and ravings...unless one of you quote him that is.

Zathras
09-12-2010, 06:13 PM
Well, I guess I am one also along with an overwhelming majority of Americans. Maybe I should start referring to him as Seig Heil Gator. :rolleyes:

Naw, Herr Gator works just fine

m00
09-14-2010, 08:45 PM
:D

Gator, would you please watch it. Hey, I hear there are Ron Paul Supporters over on CC, why don't you go look???


I agree with Ron Paul. :(

Odysseus
09-14-2010, 10:03 PM
I agree with Ron Paul. :(
Ironically, Ron Paul and Gator are in agreement about Iraq, but for different reasons. Paul is a principled isolationist, who genuinely believes that the power that our government uses overseas makes it more inclined to tyranny at home, while Gator just hates Jews.

m00
09-15-2010, 12:13 AM
Ironically, Ron Paul and Gator are in agreement about Iraq, but for different reasons. Paul is a principled isolationist, who genuinely believes that the power that our government uses overseas makes it more inclined to tyranny at home, while Gator just hates Jews.

who doesn't? :p

KhrushchevsShoe
09-15-2010, 07:39 AM
And a colonel :D

You are romantically fixated on Ody. It's about the gayest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

Zathras
09-15-2010, 09:09 AM
You are romantically fixated on Ody. It's about the gayest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/HeroesAtWork/462.jpg

swirling_vortex
09-15-2010, 09:41 AM
You are romantically fixated on Ody. It's about the gayest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

http://www.chaobell.net/newgallery/d/2110-1/14xl63c.jpg

Odysseus
09-15-2010, 06:10 PM
who doesn't? :p
It's all about the Joooooooooooooooooooooos...

You are romantically fixated on Ody. It's about the gayest thing I've ever seen on the internet.
I blame it on my rugged good looks, washboard abs and steely gaze.:rolleyes: Oh, look! Scraps is a boy dog, isn't he? :D

m00
09-15-2010, 10:50 PM
It's all about the Joooooooooooooooooooooos...

We control the world, clearly. :p

Odysseus
09-16-2010, 12:09 PM
We control the world, clearly. :p

Shhhhh! We'll discuss it at the meeting later. Don't forget that it's your turn to bring the donuts. :D