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Peter Dow
09-06-2010, 10:42 PM
How now Peter Dow, welcome.

Thanks.

I hope the welcome lasts. I got banned from the Conservative Cave and from the Democratic Underground. I seem to be equally unacceptable in both the right and left political hideouts of the internet. :(


Nothing will happen as long as we have a president that was schooled in madrassas .

If you are looking for suggestions for President in 2012, here's one. :D

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9328/riceforpresidentsquare4.jpg (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/)

I am the group owner of Rice for President Yahoo Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/)

And I have some Condi videos for your viewing pleasure! :D

riceforpresident http://uk.youtube.com/user/riceforpresident
condiTV1 http://uk.youtube.com/user/CondiTV1
GIULIANIvsRICE http://uk.youtube.com/user/GIULIANIvsRICE
SuperCondi http://uk.youtube.com/user/SuperCondi
WeLoveCondi http://uk.youtube.com/user/WeLoveCondi
ElvisSingsCondi http://uk.youtube.com/user/ElvisSingsCondi
DrCondiRice http://uk.youtube.com/user/DrCondiRice

For Condi YouTube group
http://www.youtube.com/group/forcondi

Download "YouTube-muted/banned" videos from here -
http://scot.tk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1203#1203


This really belongs in it's own thread.


It would make a good topic.

I tend to the view that Condi belongs in her own planet Earth (so that would be President of the World) so here is a dedicated topic.


I'm not sure that she'd be an effective president. Academics tend to be long on theory and short on experience, and in her case, her lack of executive experience often seemed to get her rolled by the permanent bureaucracy at Foggy Bottom. Also, I don't see anything about her positions on economic policy, immigration, the role of the federal vs. state governments (in fact, the videos lack a certain, shall we say, gravitas?) and while I agree with most of her positions on foreign policy, I don't know how she'd react to a crisis.

That being said, I'd vote for her ahead of 99% of the Democrats on the national level, but she's not my first choice among Republicans.
OK I'll get back to you on that later. Just get the topic started first.

PoliCon
09-06-2010, 10:43 PM
I like Condi myself. But I thought her goal was to run the NFL?

NJCardFan
09-06-2010, 10:45 PM
I like Condi myself. But I thought her goal was to run the NFL?

Actually, she is needed in the NHL. Seriously. Before Bettman completely destroys the league.

m00
09-06-2010, 10:57 PM
If you'd vote for her, you're a racist.

Kay
09-06-2010, 11:13 PM
I always thought she would be a most excellent choice for a VP. I don't see her being strong enough to carry a majority to win as President. But reading through the choices up there, one struck me as a great role for her. She would make an excellent Sec General of the U.N. She would bring a lot to that role with her background of being a double minority with a conservative background. I'd put her there.

Kay
09-06-2010, 11:15 PM
I'd also say it is a little odd looking at the names of who voted for what.
Peter you are all over the place voting for her in all categories.
Which do see her being as your first choice?

Rockntractor
09-06-2010, 11:16 PM
I always thought she would be a most excellent choice for a VP. I don't see her being strong enough to carry a majority to win as President. But reading through the choices up there, one struck me as a great role for her. She would make an excellent Sec General of the U.N. She would bring a lot to that role with her background of being a double minority with a conservative background. I'd put her there.

Very true!

Peter Dow
09-06-2010, 11:32 PM
I'm not sure that she'd be an effective president. Academics tend to be long on theory and short on experience
Well not in Condi's case. She is no ordinary academic.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE
PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, STANFORD UNIVERSITY
AND THE THOMAS AND BARBARA STEPHENSON
SENIOR FELLOW ON PUBLIC POLICY, HOOVER INSTITUTION
STANFORD, CA 94305-6010
PHONE: (650) 723-6867 • FAX: (650) 721-3390

CURRICULUM VITAE
PERSONAL INFORMATION
Date of Birth: November 14, 1954
Place of Birth: Birmingham, Alabama
Language: Russian; research ability in Czech and French

EDUCATION
Ph.D Graduate School of International Studies, University of Denver, 1981
M.A. University of Notre Dame, 1975
B.A. University of Denver, 1974 - cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa

TEACHING INTERESTS
International Politics
Politics of Europe, Central Europe and the former Soviet Union
International Security Policy

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
• Professor of Political Science, Stanford University, May 1993 - Present
• Thomas and Barbara Stephenson Senior Fellow on Public Policy, Hoover Institution,
July 1999 - Present
• Senior Fellow, by courtesy, Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, Stanford
University, March 2009 - Present
• Secretary of State, U.S. Department of State, January 2005 - January 2009
• Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, The White House, January 2001 -
January 2005
• Provost, Stanford University, September 1993 - June 1999
• Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and Senior Director for Soviet
Affairs, National Security Council, March 1990 - March 1991
• Director, Soviet and East European Affairs, National Security Council,
February 1989 - March 1990
• Associate Professor of Political Science, Stanford University, September 1987 - April 1993
• Council on Foreign Relations, International Affairs Fellow
(Special Assistant to the Director - Joint Chiefs of Staff), 1986 - 1987
• Assistant Professor of Political Science, Stanford University, 1981 - 1987
• Assistant Director, Center for International Security and Arms Control, Stanford University,
1981 - 1986
• Intern, The Rand Corporation, 1980
• Intern, United States Department of State, Summer 1977

FELLOWSHIPS AND ACADEMIC HONORS
• Fellow, American Academy of Arts and Sciences
• Doctor of Humane Letters (honorary degree), Air University, 2008
• Doctor of Laws (honorary degree), Boston College, 2006
• Doctor of Humane Letters (honorary degree), Michigan State University, 2004
• Doctor of Public Service (honorary degree), University of Louisville, 2004
• Doctor of Laws (honorary degree), Mississippi College School of Law, 2003
• Doctor of National Security Affairs (honorary degree), National Defense University, 2002
• Humanities and Sciences Dean's Award for Distinguished Teaching, 1993
• Walter J. Gores Award for Excellence in Teaching (Stanford), 1984
• John P. McGovern Medal of Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society, 1996
• Honorary Doctorate, University of Notre Dame, 1995
• Doctor of Humane Letters (honorary degree), University of Alabama, 1994
• Doctor of Laws (honorary degree), Morehouse College, 1991
• Hoover Institution for War and Peace Fellow (by Courtesy), 1991 - 1993
• Institute for International Studies Senior Fellow, Stanford University, 1991 - 1994
• International Affairs Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, 1986 - 1987
• National Fellow, Hoover Institution on War and Peace, 1985 - 1986
• Delegate to the Bellagio "New Faces" Conference (Arms Control Association and
International Institute for Strategic Studies), 1984
• Arms Control Fellow, Stanford University, 1980 - 1981
• Ford Foundation Fellow, 1980 - 1981
• National Fund Fellowship for Outstanding Minority Graduate Students, 1977 - 1980
• Denver Social Science Foundation Fellow, 1976 - 1977
• University of Notre Dame First Year Graduate Fellow, 1974 - 1975
• Phi Beta Kappa, 1974
• University of Denver Honors Scholarship, 1971 - 1974

STATE HONORS
• Order of Stara Planina, First Class, Republic of Bulgaria, 2008
• Order of the Star of Africa, Grade of Grand Band, Republic of Liberia, 2008
• Commander’s Cross, Star of the Order of Merit, Republic of Hungary, 2008

BOARDS AND COMMITTEES
CURRENT:
• Director, Board of Directors, C3, LLC, 2009 - Present
• Director, Board of Directors, Makena Capital, 2009 - Present
• Governor, Board of Governors, The Commonwealth Club, 2009 - Present
• Trustee, Board of Trustees, John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, 2009 - Present
• Governor, Board of Governors, Boys & Girls Clubs of America, 2009 - Present
• Member, Advisory Council, U.S. Global Leadership Coalition, 2009 - Present
• Chair, EdLabs Stakeholders’ Committee, Education Innovation Laboratory, Harvard
University, 2009 - Present

CORPORATE:
• Director, Board of Directors, Schwab Corporation, July 1999 - 2000
• Member, International Advisory Council, J.P. Morgan, 1995 - 2000
• Director, Board of Directors, Chevron Corporation, 1991 - 2000
• Director, Board of Directors, Transamerica Corporation, 1991 - July 1999
• Director, Board of Directors, Hewlett-Packard, 1991 - 1993

SERVICE:
• Chair, Board of Directors, Millennium Challenge Corporation, 2005 - 2009
• Director, Board of Directors, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, 1997 - 2000
• Trustee, Board of Trustees, Notre Dame University, 1997 - 2000
• Vice President, Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula, 1996 - 2000
• Founding Board Member, Center for a New Generation, 1992 - 2000
• Member, Federal Advisory Committee on Gender Integrated Training in the Military, 1997
• Trustee, Board of Trustees, Carnegie Corporation of New York, 1994 – 1997
• Director, Board of Directors, The Rand Corporation, 1992 - 1997
• Trustee, Board of Trustees, San Francisco Symphony, 1993 - 1996
• Trustee, National Endowment for the Humanities, 1991 - 1993
• Consultant, National Security Council, 1991 - 1993
• Member, Governor's Advisory Panel on Redistricting California, 1991
• Director, Board of Directors, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 1989
• Director, KQED Public Broadcasting Board of Directors, 1989
• Member, Advisory Board, Community School for Music and the Arts, 1988 - 1989
• Consultant, Joint Chiefs of Staff, 1986 - 1988
• Director, Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition Board of Directors, 1984 - 1984; 1987 - 1988

PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES AND ASSOCIATIONS
• Foreign Policy Advisor to Texas Governor George W. Bush and Bush for President Campaign,
1999 - 2000
• Address to the Republican National Convention, August 2000
• Address to the Republican National Convention, August 1992
• Consultant on Soviet Affairs, ABC News, 1991
• Speaker, SPASO House (U.S. Ambassador's Residence) Lecture Series, Moscow, April 1988
• Visiting Lecturer, Parks/Chavez Lecture Series, University of Michigan, November 1988
• Commonwealth Club Addresses, May 1988 and December 1991
• Lifetime member, Council on Foreign Relations,
• Member, Aspen Strategy Group, 1991 - 1995
• Member, American Political Science Association
• Member, American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies
• Member, Lincoln Club of Northern California
• Member, Board of Directors, World Politics, 1987 - 1989
• Member, Social Science Research Board of Directors, Committee on Problems and Policy,
1986 - 1988
• Member, MacArthur Fellowship in International Security Selection Committee, 1983 - 1985

UNIVERSITY ACTIVITIES
• Provost's Committee on the Status of Women in the University, 1992 - 1994
• University Policy and Planning Board, 1992 - 1993
• Search Committee for the President of the University, 1991
• Search Committee for the Dean of Admissions, 1991
• Search Committee for the Stanford Football Coach, 1988, 1991
• Department of Political Science:
Chair, Graduate Admissions Committee, 1991, 1992;
Director of Graduate Studies, 1988 - 1989;
Policy and Planning Committee, 1983 - 1984, 1987 - 1988
• National Centennial Campaign Faculty, 1988-1989
• Executive Committee, Institute for International Studies, 1988 - 1989, 1991 - 1993
• Faculty Senate 1988 - 1989
• Public Service Center Steering Committee, 1987 and 1991-1999 (Chair)
• Freshman Advisor, 1982 - 1985
• Committee on Undergraduate Admissions and Financial Aid, 1982 - 1985;
1988 - 1989 (Chair)
• Presidential Committee for the Selection of the Vice President and Provost, 1983 - 1984

I had to leave out her publications because


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In particular, there is no-one in the world who can top this experience.

• Secretary of State, U.S. Department of State, January 2005 - January 2009
• Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, The White House, January 2001 - January 2005
• Provost, Stanford University, September 1993 - June 1999
• Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and Senior Director for Soviet Affairs, National Security Council, March 1990 - March 1991
• Director, Soviet and East European Affairs, National Security Council,
February 1989 - March 1990

Not just holding the posts but what she achieved with them. Maybe you don't remember 1989-91. She worked for President G.H.W. Bush and with Gorbachev, ending the cold war, bringing down the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain, re-uniting Germany, freeing Europe etc while Senior Director for Soviet Affairs for the NSA. Experience doesn't get any better than that.

Apocalypse
09-07-2010, 01:01 AM
I like her, think she would make a great president as she is more then qualified. But will say this too. Not going to happen.

1. Too well known and tied to the Bush admin.
2. She has made it clear, she wants nothing to do with Politics now, and wanted out while Bush was still Pres.

lacarnut
09-07-2010, 04:26 AM
I always thought she would be a most excellent choice for a VP. I don't see her being strong enough to carry a majority to win as President. But reading through the choices up there, one struck me as a great role for her. She would make an excellent Sec General of the U.N. She would bring a lot to that role with her background of being a double minority with a conservative background. I'd put her there.

Ditto. Palin is going to be our next President.

Sonnabend
09-07-2010, 07:47 AM
hope the welcome lasts. I got banned from the Conservative Cave and from the Democratic Underground.

Banned from CC... shock, horror ...surprise........

noonwitch
09-07-2010, 09:11 AM
I like Condi. She's a social liberal. I'd vote for her over some of the dems out there.

Odysseus
09-07-2010, 09:52 AM
Well not in Condi's case. She is no ordinary academic.
No, she's a superb academic. But none of those posts involved any executive experience. How would she deal with a crisis? How would she respond to a collapse in the stock market? What's her take on Obamacare? Everything that she's done makes her a great NSA, but her lack of experience in critical areas makes me leery of voting for her.


Not just holding the posts but what she achieved with them. Maybe you don't remember 1989-91. She worked for President G.H.W. Bush and with Gorbachev, ending the cold war, bringing down the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain, re-uniting Germany, freeing Europe etc while Senior Director for Soviet Affairs for the NSA. Experience doesn't get any better than that.
I give credit for ending the Cold War to Reagan, not GHW Bush. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Bush's team tried to help Gorby hold the Evil Empire together, and tried to convince the Eastern Bloc countries not to leave. That was a huge failure of vision.

I like Condi. She's a social liberal. I'd vote for her over some of the dems out there.
You're not helping him make the case for Condi. I want someone who is fiscally conservative, and who understands that social liberalism leads to fiscal liberalism, since buying into the premises of the nanny state results in justifying funding it (Arnold, anyone?). The only exception to this rule that I can think of is Rudy Giuliani, who governed as if he was a social conservative, regardless of his personal beliefs, which is why I'd have no problem with him on the ballot.

Peter Dow
09-07-2010, 09:57 PM
often seemed to get her rolled by the permanent bureaucracy at Foggy Bottom.
Name once. She deferred to President Bush as she should but she was undisputed boss of the State Department.


Also, I don't see anything about her positions on economic policy, immigration, the role of the federal vs. state governments (in fact, the videos lack a certain, shall we say, gravitas?)
Here is a site I found with quick fire list of her policies
http://www.ontheissues.org/Condoleezza_Rice.htm

A longer speech on the American approach to success in the global economy - Davos World Economic Forum. Annual Meeting 2008 - Condoleezza Rice. Opening Address by Condoleezza Rice, US Secretary of State. (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-nO9iPoCY)

Plenty of Gravitas in this 1 hour video speech on why democracy matters as well.

Perspectives on Leadership: Condoleezza Rice at The Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvOjtvXrlgI)

Also some more questions asked during this separate 5 minute interview
Interview: Condoleezza Rice at The Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4xwZqj7rHQ)

Any particular gaps remaining then try asking me and I'll see if I can find you an answer.


and while I agree with most of her positions on foreign policy, I don't know how she'd react to a crisis.
Well as Secretary of State the job involves with dealing with crises anywhere in the world. Just check out her record at the Department of State archive (http://2001-2009.state.gov/secretary/index.htm)

Constitutionally Speaking
09-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Pete,


Most of us here like Condoleeza, but if you are going to be a one-trick pony, I can see why the other sites probably got tired of you.

Gingersnap
09-07-2010, 10:14 PM
She'd be a good Sec Def, etc. but she's not enough of an attention whore to be Prez. That takes more than just smarts and connections - you have to genuinely love the limelight and I don't think she does.

Her politics preclude her from EU involvement (were it even open to an American) and my denomination doesn't have Supreme Leaders. ;)

Peter Dow
09-07-2010, 10:28 PM
I like Condi myself. But I thought her goal was to run the NFL?

Condi addressed this question recently in an interview for golf.com (http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2011702,00.html)

http://img.timeinc.net/golf/i/tours/2010/08/condoleezza-rice-oct_372x248.jpg


You once said your dream job would be to become NFL commissioner. Given your love of golf, could you see yourself one day running a major golf organization?


I half-jokingly said Iíd love to be NFL commissioner and I told Roger Goodell [the current commissioner] not too long ago that not only is he doing a good job but now that Iím out in Northern California the job doesnít look so good anymore. It looked great when I was struggling with the Russians and the Iranians. [Laughs.] But when I was provost of the university, the Stanford Athletic Department actually reported to me and I enjoyed managing a big-time athletic program, and at some point, I donít know, maybe I will [take a job in] sports management. But Iím fully employed right now and I think Iím more likely to volunteer in the golf world than to do something professionally.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Notre+Dame+v+Stanford+ifSuZDV3VYSl.jpg
Honorary Stanford captain Condoleezza Rice walks to the middle of the field for the coin toss with Toby Gerhart #7 and Bo McNally #22 of the Stanford Cardinal before their game against the Notre Dame Fighting Irish at Stanford Stadium on November 28, 2009 in Palo Alto, California.

But I can't tell you that Condi's burning desire in her belly is to be elected president or vice president because that isn't her main goal in life or if it is, she won't admit to it. This is what she said when asked by Katie Couric - "probably isn't for me - don't see it - not what I am and what I want to do in life".

Condoleezza Rice on Running for President (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsdxHNOV9t8)

Well I guess she might have a change of mind about that in future?
She certainly is up to it and would be a great president I believe.
Meanwhile she sets the standard I think for presidential candidates. Anyone as good as her will certainly be good enough to be president. Anyone falling short of Condi's abilities we need to ask serious questions about. This is my view and why I continue with Rice for President Yahoo Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president) anyway.

CueSi
09-07-2010, 10:34 PM
NFL Commish or bust. :p

~QC

Peter Dow
09-07-2010, 11:04 PM
I'd also say it is a little odd looking at the names of who voted for what.
Peter you are all over the place voting for her in all categories.
Which do see her being as your first choice?
I wanted to let people vote for as many options as they like because people might think she would be very good in some jobs but not right for others.

I think she could be good in any of the roles and which ever she is happiest in would suit me fine. I think the two with the most votes so far

President of the United States of America and
Secretary General of the United Nations

would get the most benefit for America and the world so would be best choices with POTUS my first choice.

Kay
09-07-2010, 11:12 PM
but she's not enough of an attention whore to be Prez. That takes more than just smarts and connections - you have to genuinely love the limelight and I don't think she does.

That's a good point, and unfortunately the truth.

Peter Dow
09-07-2010, 11:31 PM
I always thought she would be a most excellent choice for a VP. I don't see her being strong enough to carry a majority to win as President.
Well in July 2009 Condoleezza Rice topped the poll of which republican candidate most Americans would support
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/message/2021

but a December 2009 poll put her third.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/message/2054

Going by previous polls, Condi tends to be stronger compared to other republican candidates with all Americans than she is with republicans only. This means other republican candidates are more likely to win the nomination but Condi would be more likely to win the general election if she somehow got the nomination than many of them.

What certainly is the case is that McCain had he picked Condi and not Palin would have won the presidency.

Book explains "How McCain Could Have Actually Won the 2008 Election. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/message/2061)


But reading through the choices up there, one struck me as a great role for her. She would make an excellent Sec General of the U.N. She would bring a lot to that role with her background of being a double minority with a conservative background. I'd put her there.
Well the member states of the United Nations mostly prefer someone for UN Secretary General they can push around and who won't ask hold them to do anything for their own or other nations that they are not wanting to do already.

Many UN states tend not to be enthusiasts for regime change because their own regimes have questionable legitimacy themselves. So the whole Iraq episode makes them swallow hard before voting for Condoleezza Rice for UN Secretary General. I think that is a great thing myself! Make them sweat a bit and not think they are above the law! :D

Peter Dow
09-07-2010, 11:36 PM
Ditto. Palin is going to be our next President.

Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President. Oh we'll still take America seriously but we'll all be trying to figure out who is really running America if you vote that air-head in.

Rockntractor
09-07-2010, 11:44 PM
Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President. Oh we'll still take America seriously but we'll all be trying to figure out who is really running America if you vote that air-head in.

Well that wasn't good, you may think she is unqualified for the job but she is anything but an airhead. I see why you are having trouble winning friends and influencing people.
Out of curiosity why is someone residing in Scotland stumping for Condi?

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 12:01 AM
Name once. She deferred to President Bish as she should but she was undisputed boss of the State Department.
No problem. From the very first article that she wrote for Foreign Affairs as a representative of the Bush presidential campaign, Dr. Rice correctly criticized the Clinton administration for obsessing with diplomacy to the detriment of U.S. national interests. She wrote, "Multilateral agreements and institutions should not be ends in themselves." By the end of her tenure at State, however, she had completely reversed herself, and came to push diplomacy in circumstances where it was totally at odds with the president's goals. For example, she backed off on Bush's insistence on multilateral talks with North Korea and pressured him to reverse the unequivocal and very public rejection of such direct talks that he had made just three months earlier North Korea got bilateral talks, and the US got nothing. She did the same thing with Iran, which was providing sophisticated IEDs to the Iraqi insurgents, an act of war against us, but for which Iran was never brought to task. Dr. Rice continued to try to use diplomatic means to sway the mullahs, something that had been tried (and had failed) by every administration since Carter. The one constant in this was that the State Dept. has always sought to engage our enemies diplomatically, and eventually managed to wear away Dr. Rice's resolve. This is the way that Stockholm Syndrome affects political appointees, and State is one of the worst offenders.
She also opposed the Surge (although not publicly, which demonstrates admirable discipline on her part), which points to a limited understanding of the strategic and tactical issues on the ground in Iraq. Combined with her tendency to try to engage the Iranians, this indicates a troubling tendency to favor diplomacy when it isn't appropriate.


Here is a site I found with quick fire list of her policies
http://www.ontheissues.org/Condoleezza_Rice.htm
I've seen this before. I agree with her on most foreign policy issues (although I felt that her lack of executive experience hampered her at State), but vehemently disagree on Affirmative Action. My other concern is that there are huge blank spots on the list, which reflects a very narrow focus. This is understandable, as she has spent her entire career in one area of government, as a Sovietologist and National Security expert, but even where I agree with her on broad principles, I'm concerned about her lack of experience.

What it comes down to, for me, is that I have seen commanders fail because, while they had the right opinions or theories, they were unable to put them into practice because they lacked the necessary experience. The president has to be able to deal with the crises that the State Department focuses on (which is Dr. Rice's expertise), but also deal with the nuts and bolts of running the government and has to have the capacity to motivate others to accomplish the national mission. The president must not only have vision, but must be able to communicate it and inspire others with it. I'm not saying that she cannot do it, I'm saying that I've never seen her do it.

As I said before, she's not my first choice, but if she's at the top of the ticket, we could do worse.

Gingersnap
09-08-2010, 12:05 AM
Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President. Oh we'll still take America seriously but we'll all be trying to figure out who is really running America if you vote that air-head in.

Precisely the attitude of the U.N. members states have in regard to Rice with the additional problem that she is an American black which frankly doesn't cut much ice with the "international" community. Obama is half African, which does.

American blacks are not widely regarded with the same reflex awe abroad as they sometimes are at home.

Realistically, Obama could have a shot at a U.N. post but no other American would be accepted for a high position at this point in time. Rice would have no chance.

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Precisely the attitude of the U.N. members states in regard to Rice with the additional problem that she is an American black which frankly doesn't cut much ice with the "international" community. Obama is half African, which does.

American blacks are not widely regarded with the same reflex awe abroad as they sometimes are at home.

Realistically, Obama could have a shot at a U.N. post but no other American would be accepted for a high position at this point in time. Rice would have no chance.

I could see the UN appointing Bill Clinton to something, and Jimmy Carter is such a national embarrassment that it would definitely be in the interests of most of our enemies to put him in a public position there.

I think that Dr. Rice would make a good veep choice, which would groom her for the presidency, but I stand by my concerns about her lack of experience as a manager/leader. Palin's been a mayor and governor, and been effective at both (until the DNC decided to spam her with phony ethics complaints as a means of destroying her). Giuliani was not only a mayor, but the mayor who turned NYC from an ungovernable hellhole back into a great city. Mitch Daniels has been a superb governor, as has Bobby Jindal, Haley Barbour and I'm sure that there are others around who have the governing philosophy, experience and capacity to inspire that we need in a president.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 12:28 AM
Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President. Oh we'll still take America seriously but we'll all be trying to figure out who is really running America if you vote that air-head in.

You better not piss off Mama Grizzly when she takes office. She might send troops over there to kick your ass. I have got news for you. I don't give a fuck what the International community thinks. You can keep your high taxes and your shitty health care. Air-heads like you should STFU.

Sonnabend
09-08-2010, 07:24 AM
Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President.

We'll take her a damned sight more seriously than that walking example of the Peter Principle currently occupying the Oval.:rolleyes:

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 09:52 AM
Sure go ahead. Elect Palin. Just don't expect the international community to take her seriously as US President. Oh we'll still take America seriously but we'll all be trying to figure out who is really running America if you vote that air-head in.
There are two kinds of Republicans to the elitist: Morons and monsters. George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan were caricatured as morons, and Sarah Palin is just the latest example of that vicious trope.

If you want to make the case for Dr. Rice as a presidential contender, you've made your point.

Repeatedly.

We get it.

Now, have you anything else to say on any other subjects? Certainly life in Scotland must afford you the time to do something other than meddle in American presidential politics.

Sonnabend
09-08-2010, 10:06 AM
Certainly life in Scotland must afford you the time to do something other than meddle in American presidential politics.

AHEM :D

djones520
09-08-2010, 10:10 AM
AHEM :D

Well you live in Australia, where even the ants can kill you with a single bite. No one begrudges you guys sitting in doors all day doing nothing but surfing the internet.

Sonnabend
09-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Well you live in Australia, where even the ants can kill you with a single bite. No one begrudges you guys sitting in doors all day doing nothing but surfing the interne

I WISH :D

P.S The ants dont kill with a single bite...it takes at least two bites, with tomato sauce and some Vegemite for seasoning :):)

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 10:36 AM
I WISH :D

P.S The ants dont kill with a single bite...it takes at least two bites, with tomato sauce and some Vegemite for seasoning :):)

I hate Vegemite or at least I did when I was a kid. Underwood chicken spread is much better.

Peter Dow
09-08-2010, 10:46 AM
I give credit for ending the Cold War to Reagan, not GHW Bush.
Em, they were on the same team. GHW Bush was Reagan's VP. So credit to both - to Reagan for his term in office and to GHW Bush for his.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
US Presidents

40 Ronald Reagan From January 20, to 1981 January 20, 1989
41 George H. W. Bush From January 20, 1989 January 20, 1993

Condi was in key posts when many of the most important end-of-the-cold-war changes happened. It happened on Condi's watch and she deserves a lot of credit, as does the whole GHW Bush team. :cool:


Condoleezza Rice

Director, Soviet and East European Affairs, National Security Council, February 1989 - March 1990
Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs and Senior Director for Soviet Affairs, National Security Council, March 1990 - March 1991



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

East–West tensions rapidly subsided through the mid-to-late 1980s, culminating with the final summit in Moscow in 1989, when Gorbachev and George H. W. Bush signed the START I arms control treaty.

During the following year it became apparent to the Soviets that oil and gas subsidies, along with the cost of maintaining massive troops levels, represented a substantial economic drain.

In addition, the security advantage of a buffer zone was recognised as irrelevant and the Soviets officially declared that they would no longer intervene in the affairs of allied states in Eastern Europe.

In 1989, Soviet forces withdrew from Afghanistan and by 1990 Gorbachev consented to German reunification, the only alternative being a Tiananmen scenario. When the Berlin Wall came down, Gorbachev's "Common European Home" concept began to take shape.

On December 3, 1989, Gorbachev and Reagan's successor, George H. W. Bush, declared the Cold War over at the Malta Summit; a year later, the two former rivals were partners in the Gulf War against longtime Soviet ally Iraq.

There is a German documentary-dramatisation of the history of German re-unification and this video is clips from that, showing Condi's role and her commenting on what happened. (It is in German)

Condoleezza Rice und deutsche Wiedervereinigung / and German reunification (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZtLJBwFwOE)


When the Soviet Union collapsed, Bush's team tried to help Gorby hold the Evil Empire together, and tried to convince the Eastern Bloc countries not to leave.
What fool or liar did you hear that from? You have no proof for that absurd claim! :rolleyes:

The idea that the Cold War somehow ended without the detailed involvement of political leaders in office on both sides making it happen is wrong. :p

To deny credit to President GHW Bush and his administration for the ending of the cold war is such a malign denial of the truth of history as to be on a par with holocaust deniers in my opinion. Not only wrong, but offensively wrong.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 11:08 AM
Now, have you anything else to say on any other subjects? Certainly life in Scotland must afford you the time to do something other than meddle in American presidential politics.

I doubt it. This air-head thinks he knows what is best for America. Like I said, he/she/it can take their high taxes and lousy health care and cram it where the sun don't shine.

As far as Condi is concerned, she would be about number 5 on my list.

noonwitch
09-08-2010, 12:23 PM
She'd be a good Sec Def, etc. but she's not enough of an attention whore to be Prez. That takes more than just smarts and connections - you have to genuinely love the limelight and I don't think she does.

Her politics preclude her from EU involvement (were it even open to an American) and my denomination doesn't have Supreme Leaders. ;)


Good point about the attention whore character flaw that seems to be so essential in seeking the presidency.

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 01:44 PM
AHEM :D
Present company excepted. Besides, you talk about other things than Condi.

I WISH :D

P.S The ants dont kill with a single bite...it takes at least two bites, with tomato sauce and some Vegemite for seasoning
In Texas, they kill with one bite, if you've been slathered in mayo. Two bites if it's Miracle Whip. :D

Em, they were on the same team. GHW Bush was Reagan's VP. So credit to both - to Reagan for his term in office and to GHW Bush for his.
I have this odd habit of giving credit where I think it's due. Humor me.
Reagan laid the groundwork for the collapse of the USSR by getting the Saudis to increase oil production, driving down the price at a time when oil was the only hard currency export that the Soviets had.

What fool or liar did you hear that from? You have no proof for that absurd claim!
It was my own recollection. I remember yelling at the TV when the administration's initial response to the collapse of the Berlin Wall was, shall we say, less than supportive (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB320/index.htm):

In Washington, US President George Bush and Secretary of State James Baker hold a press conference. They have heard about the events in Berlin from agency reports.
The former US President George Bush explains his at first subdued reaction shortly after the Wall came down: "I didnít want to overplay the hand of the United States of America."

At the Malta Summit, Bush responded to criticism for his failure to support the revolutionaries who were tearing down the Warsaw Pact:

George Bush: I hope you noticed that while the changes in Eastern Europe have been going on, the United States has not engaged in condescending declarations aimed at damaging the Soviet Union. There are people in the United States who accuse me of being too cautious. It is true I am a prudent man, but I am not a coward, and my administration will seek to avoid doing anything that would damage your position in the world. But I was insistently advised to do something of that sort -- to climb the Berlin Wall and to make broad declarations. My administration, however, is avoiding these steps, we are in favor of reserved behavior.
Now, in all fairness, he was not as weak as Margaret Thatcher, who genuinely feared German reunification (as did Mitterand), and urged Gorbachev to keep the wall up.
Here is another partial transcript of Bush and Gorbachev at Malta. You can see that Bush is more concerned with maintaining the status quo than with supporting the revolutionary changes underway:

Bush: I believe that in his actions Helmut Kohl was greatly influenced by an emotional reaction to events. The same concerns Genscher. True, the 10-point program does have a flavor of electoral political considerations. But we should not overlook the wave of emotions there. Kohl knows that some Western allies who pay lip service to reunification when the people of Germany support it are [actually] quite upset by the prospect.
Gorbachev: Yes, I know about that. And Kohl was informed about this viewpoint. But unlike you and your allies, I am speaking openly. There are two German states; this is the way history happened. Let history decide how the process will develop and what it will lead to in the context of a new Europe and a new world. Kohl declared repeatedly that he understands his responsibility and that he will abide by the understandings we reached in Bonn. In general, this is an issue where we should act with maximum consideration to avoid hurting the chances that have opened up.
Bush: I agree. We will not take any rash steps; we will not try to accelerate the outcome of the debate on reunification. When you speak to Kohl, you will find that he is in agreement with my approach. And if his public declarations often contradict this, one should take into account the specifics of the political equation and the emotional aspects, especially the latter. They speak about this topic with tears in their eyes.
Gorbachev: I would like to stress that we view positively the change that created these possibilities for normal contacts, broader cooperation and trade between the two German states.
Bush: As strange as it may seem, on this issue you are in the same boat with our NATO allies. Most of the conservative ones among them welcome your approach. At the same time they have to think beyond the time when notions of the FRG and the GDR are history. I would tread cautiously on this issue. If our Democrats criticize my timidity, let them do it. I do not intend to jump up onto the Wall because too much is at stake on this issue.
In fact, Bush repeatedly pressured Kohl to slow the pace of events, especially reunification.

The idea that the Cold War somehow ended without the detailed involvement of political leaders in office on both sides making it happen is wrong. :p

To deny credit to President GHW Bush and his administration for the ending of the cold war is such a malign denial of the truth of history as to be on a par with holocaust deniers in my opinion. Not only wrong, but offensively wrong.
Equating a difference of opinion on the history of the end of the Cold War with Holocaust denial is such an over the top idiocy that I hate to dignify it with an answer beyond invoking Godwin's law.

Sorry, but if this is how you campaign for Condi, you're already losing the fight.

Sonnabend
09-08-2010, 07:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaESxxvCCFk

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 07:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaESxxvCCFk

It's really quite awful!:D

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 11:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaESxxvCCFk

Oh happy little Vegemite
We love it, or at least
we eat it every day and night
It's made from moldy yeast.

We eat it in the morning,
at lunch and even dinner,
and the one of us who holds it down
is certified the winner. :D

Sonnabend
09-09-2010, 07:40 AM
It's kosher :D

Peter Dow
09-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I don't know how she'd react to a crisis.

9/11 was the biggest crisis since the Cuban missile crisis and Condi was in the White House managing the crisis at the time - see this video.

9/11: Condoleezza Rice in the White House. Crisis controlled. (YouTube)

9/11: Condoleezza Rice in the White House. Crisis controlled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMp4jcGUbvc)

Odysseus
09-15-2010, 05:31 PM
9/11 was the biggest crisis since the Cuban missile crisis and Condi was in the White House managing the crisis at the time - see this video.

9/11: Condoleezza Rice in the White House. Crisis controlled. (YouTube)

9/11: Condoleezza Rice in the White House. Crisis controlled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMp4jcGUbvc)

I can see why you became tedious at the other sites.

If Dr. Rice decides to run, and does so effectively, presenting an effective program that I can agree with, I'll support her. If she doesn't decide to run, or runs a poor campaign, or presents herself as a liberal Republican or as someone that I disagree with on critical issues, then I won't. Until then, I'm really not interested in any more electioneering.

You may want to weigh in on other issues while you're here. If this is all you've got to talk about, you're going to become very boring, very fast.

Peter Dow
11-14-2010, 08:05 PM
YouTube - Condoleezza Rice narrates her family memoir: "Extraordinary, Ordinary People" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk2Xx1_l9wU)

YouTube - Peter Dow gets Condoleezza Rice's life-story book (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amVz25b68qM)

YouTube - Condoleezza Rice meets Obama. 2nd coming of the Messiah? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRbE_3PC9c)

YouTube - Happy Birthday Condoleezza Rice with love from Peter Dow! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUXVEabkHYw)


"Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web."

Rice for President Yahoo Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rice-for-president/)

Rockntractor
11-14-2010, 08:13 PM
What did I tell you Pete?:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
11-14-2010, 08:22 PM
Pete why don't you weigh in on this.
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=33801

We're all about opinions!