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PoliCon
09-07-2010, 07:36 PM
September 7, 2010

If, as liberals would have you believe, conservatives are rabidly anti-Muslim, they would certainly be against having mosques in their own neighborhoods. But a tidbit buried in a new Newsweek poll shows just the opposite.

CBS4 in Miami reveals the interesting Islamic insights:

white house mosque

A new Newsweek poll of registered voters highlights the divide between Republicans, Democrats, and Independents over the issue of Islam and President Barack Obama.

According to the poll, 51 percent of Republicans think it’s definitely or probably true that President Obama ”sympathizes with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists who want to impose Islamic law around the world.”

In addition, 59 percent of Republicans and 28 percent of political independents think “Obama favors the interests of Muslim Americans over other groups of Americans.”

The poll results come as conservative circles have exploded in furor over a proposed Muslim community center that would be built a few blocks away from the former home of the World Trade Center. However, the poll found that 72 percent said it would be okay if a Muslim group wanted to build a mosque in their community.

In response, a liberal spokesman said, “Yeah, but…yeah, but…yeah, but….”

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/new-poll-proves-that-conservatives-arent-anti-muslim

hazlnut
09-07-2010, 08:51 PM
Mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslims. We already knew that.

The far-righties and Teabrains, however...:eek:

Rockntractor
09-07-2010, 08:54 PM
Mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslims. We already knew that.

The far-righties and Teabrains, however...:eek:

Your opinions are meaningless until you answer the questions put to you in the dome.

PoliCon
09-07-2010, 08:55 PM
Your opinions are meaningless until you answer the questions put to you in the dome.

and meaningless even then.

Rockntractor
09-07-2010, 08:57 PM
and meaningless even then.

Most likely, I don't understand why he craps on everyone in other forums but won't defend himself in the dome.

NJCardFan
09-07-2010, 08:58 PM
Mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslims. We already knew that.

The far-righties and Teabrains, however...:eek:

And of course you have the data to back this up, right? What am I doing. I know I'm not going to get an answer from this troll. Coward.

PoliCon
09-07-2010, 08:59 PM
Most likely, I don't understand why he craps on everyone in other forums but won't defend himself in the dome.

I don't know why anyone has bothered to take him seriously since he was outed as a fake conservative early on in his CU membership.

Rockntractor
09-07-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't know why anyone has bothered to take him seriously since he was outed as a fake conservative early on in his CU membership.

He used to at the least try to maintain some civility but now he doesn't feel that is necessary. I think the liberals see the writing on the wall for this fall.

NJCardFan
09-07-2010, 09:03 PM
Most likely, I don't understand why he craps on everyone in other forums but won't defend himself in the dome.
Because he's a typical liberal coward. This is actually why liberal talk radio fails.

Zathras
09-07-2010, 09:14 PM
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0b389b6a-024a-44e4-a481-9049cd807b87.jpg

Fixed for accuracy....again

Oh, and Derpnut, you're showing yourself to be a fucking coward every time you post and not respond to the call out in the Dome.

CueSi
09-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslims. We already knew that.

The far-righties and Teabrains, however...:eek:

Tea partiers ARE the mainstream, jackoff.

pull your head out your shitchute and kiss my black ass.

~QC

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 12:24 PM
Tea partiers ARE the mainstream, jackoff.

pull your head out your shitchute and kiss my black ass.

~QC

bahahah yes the tea partiers are the mainstream just look at vice president Palin they helped elect her with their middle-of-the-road majority.

oh wait

PoliCon
09-08-2010, 12:27 PM
bahahah yes the tea partiers are the mainstream just look at vice president Palin they helped elect her with their middle-of-the-road majority.

oh wait

FUCKTARD - over half of America didn't vote for your guy. You know - the guy who was never once asked a hard question by the press. You know the same guy the majority of the press were fawning over - the same guy who has since being elected violated nearly all of his campaign promises. :rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 12:28 PM
FUCKTARD - over half of America didn't vote for your guy. You know - the guy who was never once asked a hard question by the press. You know the same guy the majority of the press were fawning over - the same guy who has since being elected violated nearly all of his campaign promises. :rolleyes:

and I'm guessing all thoise who didn't vote for Obama were tea partiers? after all, tea partiers are mainstream, they're the norm. lmao

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 12:29 PM
Damn those fringe radical extreme leftists, they somehow stole the election from the Real Americans™

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 12:33 PM
A new poll came out today proving that the majority of prison inmates quote: "didn't do it".

Where is the Justice Department?!

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 12:33 PM
Damn those fringe radical extreme leftists, they somehow stole the election from the Real Americans™

The Democraps are going to get an ass kicking in Nov. that sand paper won't take off.

PoliCon
09-08-2010, 12:34 PM
and I'm guessing all thoise who didn't vote for Obama were tea partiers? after all, tea partiers are mainstream, they're the norm. lmao


Actually - I'm betting quite a few people who previously voted for the m0siahh are now coming over to the TEAParty. But never worry. Neither the GOP nor the TEAParty will ever be able to steal the Democratic base of ivory tower elitists, communists, illegal aliens, blacks . . . the dead . . . .

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 12:36 PM
The Democraps are going to get an ass kicking in Nov. that sand paper won't take off.

Welp, close shop guys. Our resident Elections Expert thus spake


oh wait


The joke is going to be on you when McCain wipes the floor up with Obama come Nov.; dummies like you do not understand that the American voters want more production in the offshore area/ AK, nukes, alternative energy, etc. So, in that vain, the petition has had a positive effect. Energy is or will be a top issue in the election.

Democrats have no answer except to take the profits from the oil company and tax the crap out of it. Democratic left wing stooges like Pisslosi and Reid have found themselves cornered like rats and they do not know how to get out. It is funny to see them squirm.





President McCain will drill everywhere except shit-holes like Chicago and San Fran. Afterwards, the Democ. party bosses will be so pissed at Pisslosi and Reid that they will be removed from their chairmanship positions. You can book it. If only the mindless duo had supported drilling, the outcome may have been different. Naw.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Welp, close shop guys. Our resident Elections Expert thus spake


oh wait

You care to make a wager that the Repubs will not take the House. Loser donates to CU.

Oh, wait. Don't let your alligator mouth overload your mocking bird ass.

CueSi
09-08-2010, 01:45 PM
bahahah yes the tea partiers are the mainstream just look at vice president Palin they helped elect her with their middle-of-the-road majority.

oh wait

The tea party didn't exist at the time of the election, dumbfuck. It's something we actually can thank Obama's idiocy for. I thought you were going to give me something here. . . you honestly have gotten stupider over time.

~QC

Zafod
09-08-2010, 02:42 PM
Welp, close shop guys. Our resident Elections Expert thus spake


oh wait

holy shit. Spent how much time digging that up?

do you even have a job?

Gingersnap
09-08-2010, 02:48 PM
Oh, wait. Don't let your alligator mouth overload your mocking bird ass.

I'm not 100% sure what this means but I am sure that I need the bumper sticker. :D

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 02:56 PM
Your opinions are meaningless until you answer the questions put to you in the dome.

Et tu, Rockntractor??

Sorry, Rock, ol friend, I'm going to heed the warning I was given some time ago.

And I did answer the NJCardman in that other thread.... He's probably not going to like them.

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 03:07 PM
He used to at the least try to maintain some civility but now he doesn't feel that is necessary. I think the liberals see the writing on the wall for this fall.

I wouldn't mind an influx of true fiscal conservatives and moderate Dems -- what's going to happen this fall isn't going to help anything. The inexperienced tea party/far-rights are going to get swallowed up in the DC machine--the lobbyists and GOP power brokers will have them trained in no time.

The legislative power shift may force President Obama to finally find center--that's the only upside I can see.

**And CA is going to get a great new Gov with Meg Whitman!! Hopefully she can turn our state around and get us back on track. I support her 100%.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 03:12 PM
holy shit. Spent how much time digging that up?

do you even have a job?

Evidently not. Looks like We We is too chickenshit to take up my bet. This freeloader has probably not contributed a dime to the operational budget of CU either.

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 03:13 PM
I wouldn't mind an influx of true fiscal conservatives and moderate Dems -- what's going to happen this fall isn't going to help anything. The inexperienced tea party/far-rights are going to get swallowed up in the DC machine--the lobbyists and GOP power brokers will have them trained in no time.

The legislative power shift may force President Obama to finally find center--that's the only upside I can see.

**And CA is going to get a great new Gov with Meg Whitman!! Hopefully she can turn our state around and get us back on track. I support her 100%.

Your putting the tea party in a box, they are made up of individual Americans from different walks of life, you generalize too much.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm not 100% sure what this means but I am sure that I need the bumper sticker. :D

It means your big mouth can get you in a world of trouble.

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 05:03 PM
holy shit. Spent how much time digging that up?

do you even have a job?

3 minutes. the posts are timestamped buddy.

warpig
09-08-2010, 05:06 PM
Conservatism has been depicted as the political doctrine of Klansmen, inbred backwoodsmen, paranoids, and religious fanatics add in some Joe McCarthy (a former New Deal liberal) added an unsavory element of power abuse and some Richard Nixon (who governed as a leftist exceeded only by Barack Obama) and you get the implication, long hard-pedaled by the left, that no decent or moral person would have anything to do with such types, much less vote for them or offer moral or political support. This has proven effective for decades. It has acquired the status of an axiom, demanding no proof or evidence, reinforced by casual references and asides from all corners of American culture -- music, films, novels, news and commentary, and political rhetoric. It remains in force today, as the treatment of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sarah Palin clearly reveal.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/conservatisms_extreme_makeover.html

People continue to paint conservatives with this brush because until Limbaugh showed up and started talk radio, consevatives never pushed back. Now look at how they try and silence us.

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 05:08 PM
Your putting the tea party in a box, they are made up of individual Americans from different walks of life, you generalize too much.

Here's a nice poll examining tea partiers

http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-timescbs-news-poll-national-survey-of-tea-party-supporters?ref=politics


very thorough, very interesting

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 05:18 PM
Q 46 and 47 are revealing of how Tea Partiers mis-view themselves as mainstream

"46. Do you think Barack Obama does or does not understand the needs and problems of people like yourself?"

Population at large: multiple polls show a consistent average of around 60% say Yes, 30% say No, with some added variance and "don't knows"

Tea Party: 24% say Yes, 73% say No

major flip about how they view Obama in relation to themselves.

Now about how they view Obama in relation to the so called "mainstream":

"47. Do you think Barack Obama shares the values most Americans try to live by, or doesn't he? "

Again multiple polls show the population at large agrees with this at about 60% with 30% disagreeing.

Also again, the Tea Party group shows the opposite results, with 20% saying Yes, and 75% saying No.



Most Americans think Obama shares their values and the values of Americans at large, but the Tea Party has a starkly different view, both of Obama, and of Americans at large.

Clearly, since we are looking at a subset of the total population, in regards to the population at large, we can see that the Tea Partiers are wrong in that aspect.

lacarnut
09-08-2010, 05:23 PM
Q 46 and 47 are revealing of how Tea Partiers mis-view themselves as mainstream

"46. Do you think Barack Obama does or does not understand the needs and problems of people like yourself?"

Population at large: multiple polls show a consistent average of around 60% say Yes, 30% say No, with some added variance and "don't knows"

Tea Party: 24% say Yes, 73% say No

major flip about how they view Obama in relation to themselves.

Now about how they view Obama in relation to the so called "mainstream":

"47. Do you think Barack Obama shares the values most Americans try to live by, or doesn't he? "

Again multiple polls show the population at large agrees with this at about 60% with 30% disagreeing.

Also again, the Tea Party group shows the opposite results, with 20% saying Yes, and 75% saying No.



Most Americans think Obama shares their values and the values of Americans at large, but the Tea Party has a starkly different view, both of Obama, and of Americans at large.

Clearly, since we are looking at a subset of the total population, in regards to the population at large, we can see that the Tea Partiers are wrong in that aspect.

The only thing the NY Times (Slimes) is good for is puppy poop.

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 05:36 PM
Mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslims. We already knew that.

The far-righties and Teabrains, however...:eek:
How do you define mainstream conservatives?


bahahah yes the tea partiers are the mainstream just look at vice president Palin they helped elect her with their middle-of-the-road majority.

oh wait
So, you think that Biden represents the mainstream? I wasn't aware that the vast majority of Americans were gaffe-prone career politicians whose only goal in life was to shimmy up the political food chain.

Where is the Justice Department?!
Prosecuting Arizona for enforcing the law and not prosecuting the New Black Panther Party for breaking it.

I wouldn't mind an influx of true fiscal conservatives and moderate Dems -- what's going to happen this fall isn't going to help anything. The inexperienced tea party/far-rights are going to get swallowed up in the DC machine--the lobbyists and GOP power brokers will have them trained in no time.

WC Fields used to say that you can't cheat an honest man. If you aren't looking to scam the system, the system in DC offers nothing of value.

Gingersnap
09-08-2010, 05:48 PM
Here's a nice poll examining tea partiers

very thorough, very interesting

We don't know what it means since we don't know much about the poll group. How many people from "fly-over country" were included? How many small business owners? How many single working mothers?

That's the problem with small polls, differences become magnified out of their true proportion.

The Tea Party is made up of ordinary mainstream people. We are as a group slightly older and slightly more middle class as well as being slightly better educated than the population at large.

Aside from those things we are ordinary small business people, working women, married couples, retirees, and neighbors. We want what most Americans want which is to be left alone to pursue our lives without constant government oversight and the constant payment of multiplying taxes, fees, licenses, permits, and so on. We'd like a much more transparent government. We'd like an end to tacking unrelated provisions on to legislation to sneak it by. We'd like an end to earmarks. We'd like term-limits across the board. We'd like educational vouchers. We'd like more local control. We'd like a more secure border and a more sensible policy to deal with illegal aliens. Quite a few of us are just fine with legalizing weed at the state level.

A lot of Americans want all those same things.

Zafod
09-08-2010, 05:55 PM
3 minutes. the posts are timestamped buddy.

Im not your buddy.

BadCat
09-08-2010, 06:02 PM
I wouldn't mind an influx of true fiscal conservatives and moderate Dems -- what's going to happen this fall isn't going to help anything. The inexperienced tea party/far-rights are going to get swallowed up in the DC machine--the lobbyists and GOP power brokers will have them trained in no time.

The legislative power shift may force President Obama to finally find center--that's the only upside I can see.

**And CA is going to get a great new Gov with Meg Whitman!! Hopefully she can turn our state around and get us back on track. I support her 100%.

You're a fucking liar and everybody on the internet knows it.

A coward too.

Wei Wu Wei
09-08-2010, 06:12 PM
We don't know what it means since we don't know much about the poll group. How many people from "fly-over country" were included? How many small business owners? How many single working mothers?

There's lots of demographics information in the poll, idk if they ask about single working mothers together but they break it down by children, employed or not, income, marital status, financial information, and much more


That's the problem with small polls, differences become magnified out of their true proportion.

The Tea Party is made up of ordinary mainstream people. We are as a group slightly older and slightly more middle class as well as being slightly better educated than the population at large.

Those are some variations, yes. The Tea Party is slightly older, slightly richer but most are not rich, and slightly better educated. There are other variations too, many of them. This poll is long they ask a lot of questions so you can see where the Tea Party differs from the public at large.


Aside from those things we are ordinary small business people, working women, married couples, retirees, and neighbors. We want what most Americans want which is to be left alone to pursue our lives without constant government oversight and the constant payment of multiplying taxes, fees, licenses, permits, and so on. We'd like a much more transparent government. We'd like an end to tacking unrelated provisions on to legislation to sneak it by. We'd like an end to earmarks. We'd like term-limits across the board. We'd like educational vouchers. We'd like more local control. We'd like a more secure border and a more sensible policy to deal with illegal aliens. Quite a few of us are just fine with legalizing weed at the state level.

A lot of Americans want all those same things.

You didn't even look at the poll did you?

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 06:14 PM
There's lots of demographics information in the poll, idk if they ask about single working mothers together but they break it down by children, employed or not, income, marital status, financial information, and much more



Those are some variations, yes. The Tea Party is slightly older, slightly richer but most are not rich, and slightly better educated. There are other variations too, many of them. This poll is long they ask a lot of questions so you can see where the Tea Party differs from the public at large.



You didn't even look at the poll did you?

Don't ever underestimate Ginger.

BadCat
09-08-2010, 06:19 PM
You didn't even look at the poll did you?

We don't look at anything you post.

Odysseus
09-08-2010, 06:52 PM
Those are some variations, yes. The Tea Party is slightly older, slightly richer but most are not rich, and slightly better educated. There are other variations too, many of them. This poll is long they ask a lot of questions so you can see where the Tea Party differs from the public at large.

And yet, despite these very minor differences, you and Hazlnut keep dishing out the invective about "teabrains" and how bigoted and evil they are. Do your neighbors know how much you loathe them?

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 07:38 PM
And of course you have the data to back this up, right? What am I doing. I know I'm not going to get an answer from this troll. Coward.

Dear NJCardman:


Until I got wind of your little protest down in the dome of thunderous impotent rage, I had just assumed that your so-called questions were attempts at irony. My initial response to your queries typically was: Oh, he can't be serious. No one is that brainless. He must be pulling my leg.

But I see now that you are quite....um, serious in your desire to have what most of us see as obvious thrust upon you; to be dumbstruck, as it were, by the facts.

My friend, a picture is worth a thousand words...

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100817_mosque_protest_ap_605.jpg

I know what you're thinking, maybe she's Jewish. Not sure why Mecca is comparable to a Burlington Coat Factory, nevertheless, according to the photo caption in the Polico article (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41196.html), she's a gentile.

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 07:43 PM
Dear NJCardman:


Until I got wind of your little protest down in the dome of thunderous impotent rage, I had just assumed that your so-called questions were attempts at irony. My initial response to your queries typically was: Oh, he can't be serious. No one is that brainless. He must be pulling my leg.

But I see now that you are quite....um, serious in your desire to have what most of us see as obvious thrust upon you; to be dumbstruck, as it were, by the facts.

My friend, a picture is worth a thousand words...

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100817_mosque_protest_ap_605.jpg

I know what you're thinking, maybe she's Jewish. Not sure why Mecca is comparable to a Burlington Coat Factory, nevertheless, according to the photo caption in the Polico article (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41196.html), she's a gentile.
She is probably a Democrat plant, you people get caught doing this all the time.

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 08:06 PM
And yet, despite these very minor differences, you and Hazlnut keep dishing out the invective about "teabrains" and how bigoted and evil they are. Do your neighbors know how much you loathe them?

I never said Tea Party was evil.

Do Mark Williams' Muslim neighbors know how he feels about them? He got tossed back in July as part of a self-policing effort, but do we really think that was the end of the anti-Muslim feeling among Tea Peeps?

This article from Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41196.html) doesn't think so:


Nowhere is the conflict more obvious than among tea party activists, who have sought to distinguish themselves from a Republican Party they say has strayed from its adherence to the principles of individual liberties and limited government. For tea partiers, the mosque dilemma also is representative of a larger philosophical battle that has raged within their movement almost from its inception last year in protest of what activists saw as the unchecked government expansion being pushed by President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats. While some of the tea party’s earliest organizers have struggled to keep the movement tightly focused on fiscal and constitutional restraint, other activists and conservative interests have tried to direct the tea party’s energy toward national security or social causes including supporting Israel or opposing illegal immigration, abortion and same-sex marriage.

That delicate balance between its narrow fiscal focus and a more generic form of conservatism is now being tested in Congress by the white-hot fight over plans to build an Islamic cultural center and mosque in lower Manhattan only blocks from where the World Trade Center stood.

While most tea party groups — including those in New York — have officially sat on the sidelines, some of the earliest or most strident opposition nationally has been provided by tea party hero Sarah Palin, as well as tea-party-backed Senate candidates Sharron Angle of Nevada and Gary Berntsen of New York.

Other prominent tea partiers admit struggling to rectify a personal aversion to the mosque plans with the tea party’s embrace of state sovereignty, property rights and constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, while some have tried to walk the thin line between the two stances.


Perhaps my claim that Tea Party members (Teabrains) were anti-muslim was an unfair overgeneralization. Or perhaps it was an accurate assessment of how Tea Partiers feel--which I based on statements by a former leader of the Tea Party Express, two current Tea personalities Palin and Angle, as well as current Teadership.

The Politco article echos what I first said, mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslim, but the Tea folk have some 'mixed' feelings.

If you want, I can post a few choice pix of signs from Tea Party events...

Zathras
09-08-2010, 08:09 PM
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0b389b6a-024a-44e4-a481-9049cd807b87.jpg

Fixed for accuracy.

Hey DUmbass, no one here gives a flying fuck about the opinions of a waste of skin coward so shut the fuck up and take a long walk off a short pier.

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 08:11 PM
I never said Tea Party was evil.

Do Mark Williams' Muslim neighbors know how he feels about them? He got tossed back in July as part of a self-policing effort, but do we really think that was the end of the anti-Muslim feeling among Tea Peeps?

This article from Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41196.html) doesn't think so:



Perhaps my claim that Tea Party members (Teabrains) were anti-muslim was an unfair overgeneralization. Or perhaps it was an accurate assessment of how Tea Partiers feel--which I based on statements by a former leader of the Tea Party Express, two current Tea personalities Palin and Angle, as well as current Teadership.

The Politco article echos what I first said, mainstream conservatives are not anti-muslim, but the Tea folk have some 'mixed' feelings.

If you want, I can post a few choice pix of signs from Tea Party events...
The teaparty has no leadership as such, you progressives are really screwing up, you have a preconceived notion of what the teaparty is but in reality the truth will hit you like a 2 by 4 between the eyes in November.

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 08:12 PM
She is probably a Democrat plant, you people get caught doing this all the time.

http://img.skitch.com/20090726-tyjxkmjt1eympmdw3b9eac6s78.jpg

BadCat
09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
http://img.skitch.com/20090726-tyjxkmjt1eympmdw3b9eac6s78.jpg

You know...you communists, you socialists, you America hating pieces of shit who call yourselves democrats.
YOU PEOPLE.

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 08:22 PM
The teaparty has no leadership as such,

Come again?

Someone better tell Dick Armey.


you progressives are really screwing up, you have a preconceived notion of what the teaparty is but in reality the truth will hit you like a 2 by 4 between the eyes in November.

Yes, in November, a handful of Tea Party candidates may get elected to national office... and when Boehner starts promising them GOP $$ and earmarked $$ for their district and invites their green ass to swanky shindigs... Let's see how the fiscal conservatism holds up.

I think we continue to blame the players, when we should be blaming the game.

The make-up of the House and Senate may change somewhat, but will K street look any different?

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 08:31 PM
http://img.skitch.com/20090726-tyjxkmjt1eympmdw3b9eac6s78.jpg

I qualified "you people" two words earlier, I know liberals have determined "you people " to be a racist term but I don't march to your drum.

malloc
09-08-2010, 08:31 PM
Come again?

Someone better tell Dick Armey.



So you are saying Dick Armey "leads" the Tea Parties? Wow, you are more out of touch than is obvious at first glance.



Yes, in November, a handful of Tea Party candidates may get elected to national office... and when Boehner starts promising them GOP $$ and earmarked $$ for their district and invites their green ass to swanky shindigs... Let's see how the fiscal conservatism holds up.

Did you get that from a fortune cookie, crystal ball, or meth trance? What are you going to do when this doesn't happen?



I think we continue to blame the players, when we should be blaming the game.


These "players" make up the rules of the game as they go along. Enumerated powers? What are those? Restrictions on size and scope of government! Nonesense!

Yeah, the players creating this game should be blamed.



The make-up of the House and Senate may change somewhat, but will K street look any different?

I suppose it will, especially if a congress which refuses to over-regulate and play favorites with lobbyists is elected.

Rockntractor
09-08-2010, 08:33 PM
Come again?

Someone better tell Dick Armey.



Yes, in November, a handful of Tea Party candidates may get elected to national office... and when Boehner starts promising them GOP $$ and earmarked $$ for their district and invites their green ass to swanky shindigs... Let's see how the fiscal conservatism holds up.

I think we continue to blame the players, when we should be blaming the game.

The make-up of the House and Senate may change somewhat, but will K street look any different?
I think this is great, the less you truly know about your enemy, the more chance we have of winning and we are not all on the same side anymore, that bridge was burned long ago.

Gingersnap
09-08-2010, 08:40 PM
There's lots of demographics information in the poll, idk if they ask about single working mothers together but they break it down by children, employed or not, income, marital status, financial information, and much more

Those are some variations, yes. The Tea Party is slightly older, slightly richer but most are not rich, and slightly better educated. There are other variations too, many of them. This poll is long they ask a lot of questions so you can see where the Tea Party differs from the public at large.

You didn't even look at the poll did you?

I did. However, I also belong to one of the most active Tea Party groups in the nation. As always, polls are necessarily tools used by outsiders to evaluate non-group members. I'm sure Focus on the Family has numerous polls to describe the "typical" attitudes of gay marriage proponents. I've seen some polls about ordinary Christians that would astonish members of my own church. Polls about the concerns of average American women are always interesting.

Truthfully, I've been to a lot of planning meeting, rallies, and I belong to the local 9/12 group (there's an overlap with the Tea Party). We've spent a lot of time talking fiscal reform and legislative priorities and no time at all speculating about President Obama's birth certificate, religion (or lack of religion), his golf game, smoking habits, his wife, her arms, his ties to machine politics, his self-described socialist/communist friends, cohorts, or appointments, nor have we wondered he if really loves his dog.

Now who am I going to believe? A poll published by a newspaper that has an admitted left-leaning editorial staff and whose journalists themselves are contributors to virtually exclusive Democratic candidates and causes or my own experience of talking and working with hundreds of Tea Party members and sympathizers?

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 09:14 PM
So you are saying Dick Armey "leads" the Tea Parties? Wow, you are more out of touch than is obvious at first glance.

Try as they might, Teables constantly try to redefine, reinvent, and tell critics who and what they are. It's usually a crock of shit, though.

Give Us Liberty: A Tea Party Manifesto (http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=7464) by... DICK ARMEY...

Again, if he doesn't speak for the Tea folk, someone better put out a Press Release.



Did you get that from a fortune cookie, crystal ball, or meth trance? What are you going to do when this doesn't happen?

I really hope it doesn't. But the TP campaigns being run reek of amateurism. And the voters are ripe for a knee-jerk change. So, the freakishly orange man will have plenty of nubes to toy with.



These "players" make up the rules of the game as they go along. Enumerated powers? What are those? Restrictions on size and scope of government! Nonesense!

Yeah, the players creating this game should be blamed.

I believe that a lot of people get into public service for the right reasons, but get corrupted by the political machine along the way. And I don't think TP candidates are going to be immune. Especially when they arrive on orientation day and find out that Reps don't get good committee assignments until they've been around for 3+ terms! And that means playing along, trading votes, and start running again in 1.5 years.

Will there even be a Tea Party caucus?


I suppose it will, especially if a congress which refuses to over-regulate and play favorites with lobbyists is elected.

Don't most freshmen go to congress thinking they'll be different? And, if the majority changes, who will be the new leaders -- the same old faces.

malloc
09-08-2010, 09:30 PM
Try as they might, Teables constantly try to redefine, reinvent, and tell critics who and what they are. It's usually a crock of shit, though.

Give Us Liberty: A Tea Party Manifesto (http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=7464) by... DICK ARMEY...



Again, if he doesn't speak for the Tea folk, someone better put out a Press Release.




Oh wow, so in your moonbat brain, someone who publishes a paper automatically becomes the de-facto leader of a movement. Does that make Ron Paul a co-leader for Revolution: A Manifesto (http://www.ronpaul.com/books/the-revolution-a-manifesto/). How about all the many thousands of contributors who collaborated on the Contract From America? Are they all co-leaders?

If I publish some sort of CU manifesto, do I get to be the "leader" of the CU?

Your little theory is wearing thin. Very thin.



I really hope it doesn't. But the TP campaigns being run reek of amateurism. And the voters are ripe for a knee-jerk change. So, the freakishly orange man will have plenty of nubes to toy with.



So basically you are guessing and fortune telling, with a healthy dose of neo-liberal pessimism.



Will there even be a Tea Party caucus?


My shakras aren't properly aligned for fortune telling today. :rolleyes:




I believe that a lot of people get into public service for the right reasons, but get corrupted by the political machine along the way. And I don't think TP candidates are going to be immune. Especially when they arrive on orientation day and find out that Reps don't get good committee assignments until they've been around for 3+ terms! And that means playing along, trading votes, and start running again in 1.5 years.

Don't most freshmen go to congress thinking they'll be different? And, if the majority changes, who will be the new leaders -- the same old faces.

This one of the biggest reasons why lefty ideology always fails. You see machinations, society, generalities and systems. Never do you think about the individuals behind these systems. This political machine you are vaguely describing is made up of people, nothing more, and nothing less. I don't know if you think it's some sort of magical occurrence, but it's not. If you change the people running the machine, you change the machine itself. In order to change the people, you have to vote out who's there, and vote in fresh ideas.

Gingersnap
09-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Again, if he doesn't speak for the Tea folk, someone better put out a Press Release.

That would be vaguely useful if the press really cared to share our story but they don't.

Dick Armey runs Freedomworks. That organization predates the creation of the Tea Party. It's also concerned with fiscal issues, government overreach, and similar matters. Freedomworks doesn't run, contribute to, or organize Tea Party events or chapters.

That a clueless newsie would interview Armey about the Tea Party is not surprising. Nor is it surprising that Armey would like to hitch his wagon in front of the Tea Party. What would be just shocking is if the membership actually believed that Armey had any leadership role in the Tea Party.

Now that would be real news!

Politicians and former politicians always try to run out in front of any popular movement. They can't help it. The Left has the same problem. If we aren't supposed to take it seriously when they do it to you, why do you take it seriously when they do it to us?

hazlnut
09-08-2010, 11:39 PM
Oh wow, so in your moonbat brain, someone who publishes a paper automatically becomes the de-facto leader of a movement. Does that make Ron Paul a co-leader for Revolution: A Manifesto (http://www.ronpaul.com/books/the-revolution-a-manifesto/). How about all the many thousands of contributors who collaborated on the Contract From America? Are they all co-leaders?

Seriously? You're actually trying to defend the "Dick Armey's not the leader" bullshit.

Okay, I'll bite, who is (are) the leader(s)??


If I publish some sort of CU manifesto, do I get to be the "leader" of the CU?

Your little theory is wearing thin. Very thin.

You word games over 'leader' are tiresome. You know what I meant.

The Tea Party has several faces - Dick Armey is certainly one of them.


So basically you are guessing and fortune telling, with a healthy dose of neo-liberal pessimism.

I'm speculating. Fair enough?


My shakras aren't properly aligned for fortune telling today. :rolleyes:

I was asking a question: Will there be a Tea Party Caucus?

Do you know the answer?

Without their own Caucus, they just get absorbed where... the Republican Caucus?


This one of the biggest reasons why lefty ideology always fails. You see machinations, society, generalities and systems. Never do you think about the individuals behind these systems. This political machine you are vaguely describing is made up of people, nothing more, and nothing less. I don't know if you think it's some sort of magical occurrence, but it's not.

Where do you get 'magical occurrence'? And what does that mean?


If you change the people running the machine, you change the machine itself. In order to change the people, you have to vote out who's there, and vote in fresh ideas.

I wish it were that simple.

Odysseus
09-09-2010, 12:03 AM
I never said Tea Party was evil.
No? Let's look at your comments about "teabaggers" (an insulting and sexually repugnant term, which you have used repeatedly):
Under worst places to live, you picked:

1 - Florida
2 - South Florida
3 - Texas
4 - Phoenix
5 - Anyplace the Teabagger Express stops at...
In the thread on the state of the Mall after Glenn Beck's rally, you stated:

Poli:
You're forgetting the giant stain left on the memories of two great Americans, Lincoln and MLK.
And the fact that the Beckians were only there for half-a-day.
And your little 1:05 video doesn't prove shit.
And, what are you implying anyway...??
Poli:
I know you're not a racist, like some of the teabrains around here, and I respect you for that, but what's the point really of comparing a crowed of 87,000 to 5 Million. Of course there was more of a mess.
File that under, no duh.:confused:
So, you don't think that the Tea Party is evil, but you do think that its members are racists, and that they left a giant stain on the memories of Lincoln and MLK by simply gathering...
And, of course, you had this to say:

Glenn Beck is speaking on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the same day MLK did.... no it wasn't photoshopped, that actually fucking happened!! Sickening, I know...

Don't worry, the whole thing was so pathetically weak, he and the failed-Gov were overshadowed by the great Americans that came before them... The memory and spirit of Lincoln/MLK remain untarnished despite the Teatards efforts to do so.
So, you've called the members of the Tea Party Express "sickening," a "stain on the memories of...Lincoln and MLK," "racists" and stated that just being on the route of the Tea Party Express renders a place unfit for human habitation. I'd hate to see what you'd say if you thought that it was evil.


Do Mark Williams' Muslim neighbors know how he feels about them? He got tossed back in July as part of a self-policing effort, but do we really think that was the end of the anti-Muslim feeling among Tea Peeps?

This article from Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41196.html) doesn't think so:
An article is an inanimate object and cannot think. Perhaps you meant that it implied or stated it. However, since Politico writers were members of JournoList, and have been caught manufacturing the news for partisan gain, it's no longer an objective or even reliable source.


Perhaps my claim that Tea Party members (Teabrains) were anti-muslim was an unfair overgeneralization. Or perhaps it was an accurate assessment of how Tea Partiers feel--which I based on statements by a former leader of the Tea Party Express, two current Tea personalities Palin and Angle, as well as current Teadership.
Or perhaps you're just as bigoted as you claim we are.

Ever heard the term "Oikophobia?"


It is a combination of:
oikos - from the Greek meaning a “house,” “family,” “people,” or “nation” – Encyclopaedia Britannica
and
-phobia
(combining form) extreme or irrational fear or dislike of a specified thing or group -Webster's Dictionary
The term also occasionally appears in psychology with the more literal sense of a fear of home.
Roger Scruton defines it as "the repudiation of inheritance and home," and refers to it as "a stage through which the adolescent mind normally passes."
An extreme and immoderate aversion to the sacred and the thwarting of the connection of the sacred to the culture of the West appears to be the underlying motif of oikophobia; and not the substitution of Judeo-Christianity by another coherent system of belief. The paradox of the oikophobe seems to be that any opposition directed at the theological and cultural tradition of the West is to be encouraged even if it is "significantly more parochial, exclusivist, patriarchal, and ethnocentric".

Suits you to a "T".

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 12:12 AM
Dick Armey runs Freedomworks. That organization predates the creation of the Tea Party. It's also concerned with fiscal issues, government overreach, and similar matters. Freedomworks doesn't run, contribute to, or organize Tea Party events or chapters.

Ginger, come on now. This is not hidden or secret information.

The two principal organizers of Tea Party events are American's for Prosperity and Freedomworks, well-funded conservative groups that practically invented the Tea Party -- all the logistical planning, the websites, the busses, the event staff, the tents, the coordination with Fox News--who do you think wrote the checks, the Libertarian Party? They don't have that kind of money.


That a clueless newsie would interview Armey about the Tea Party is not surprising. Nor is it surprising that Armey would like to hitch his wagon in front of the Tea Party. What would be just shocking is if the membership actually believed that Armey had any leadership role in the Tea Party.

Armey has been a featured speaker at major TP events. Armey practically built the wagon.


Tea Party Express (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tea_Party_Express) is the name for a public relations blitz in 2009 via a cross-country caravan of buses and cars making 35 stops for rallies featured on conservative media. Tea Party Patriots (TPP) is a conservative group initially organized by Freedomworks, which was responsible for organizing the anti-healthcare reform town hall mobs that occurred during the congressional recess period in August, 2009.

There's too much documented involvement by Freedomworks for anyone to now deny their part of the TP.


Now that would be real news!

Politicians and former politicians always try to run out in front of any popular movement. They can't help it. The Left has the same problem. If we aren't supposed to take it seriously when they do it to you, why do you take it seriously when they do it to us?

I realize the TP suffers from too many chiefs -- but you can't deny Armey's role and try to distance the TP movement from corporate astroturf.

In fact, the best thing to do is be up front about where the money is coming from (Koch Industries, Scaife Foundations) and let people know who paid for the busses and port-a-potties and the giant screens, and the audio systems.... Transparency, right? ;)

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 12:33 AM
Ginger, come on now. This is not hidden or secret information.

The two principal organizers of Tea Party events are American's for Prosperity and Freedomworks, well-funded conservative groups that practically invented the Tea Party -- all the logistical planning, the websites, the busses, the event staff, the tents, the coordination with Fox News--who do you think wrote the checks, the Libertarian Party? They don't have that kind of money.



Armey has been a featured speaker at major TP events. Armey practically built the wagon.



There's too much documented involvement by Freedomworks for anyone to now deny their part of the TP.



I realize the TP suffers from too many chiefs -- but you can't deny Armey's role and try to distance the TP movement from corporate astroturf.

In fact, the best thing to do is be up front about where the money is coming from (Koch Industries, Scaife Foundations) and let people know who paid for the busses and port-a-potties and the giant screens, and the audio systems.... Transparency, right? ;)

You progressives never allow facts to get in your way do you!:rolleyes:

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 12:33 AM
No? Let's look at your comments about "teabaggers" (an insulting and sexually repugnant term, which you have used repeatedly):
Under worst places to live, you picked:

In the thread on the state of the Mall after Glenn Beck's rally, you stated:

So, you don't think that the Tea Party is evil, but you do think that its members are racists, and that they left a giant stain on the memories of Lincoln and MLK by simply gathering...
And, of course, you had this to say:

So, you've called the members of the Tea Party Express "sickening," a "stain on the memories of...Lincoln and MLK," "racists" and stated that just being on the route of the Tea Party Express renders a place unfit for human habitation. I'd hate to see what you'd say if you thought that it was evil.


An article is an inanimate object and cannot think. Perhaps you meant that it implied or stated it. However, since Politico writers were members of JournoList, and have been caught manufacturing the news for partisan gain, it's no longer an objective or even reliable source.


Or perhaps you're just as bigoted as you claim we are.

Ever heard the term "Oikophobia?"



Suits you to a "T".

Jeez, someone got diarrhea of the mouth again. I guess all my digs at Teatards and such hurt your feelings.

Too bad. Fuck off.

Ody:

I tried to be civil with you once a while back, and you had to play tough guy.

So you can bitch and moan about all the terrible things I said about your precious party of Teabrains, but here's a reality check, sweetie: You're a bunch of sheep in an astroturf bullshit movement funded by billionaires who see you as easily manipulated peons.

It's not about the defending the Constitution -- it's about the corporate charter of Koch Industries.

Happy Rosh Hashanah!

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 12:35 AM
Jeez, someone got diarrhea of the mouth again. I guess all my digs at Teatards and such hurt your feelings.

Too bad. Fuck off.

Ody:

I tried to be civil with you once a while back, and you had to play tough guy.

So you can bitch and moan about all the terrible things I said about your precious party of Teabrains, but here's a reality check, sweetie: You're a bunch of sheep in an astroturf bullshit movement funded by billionaires who see you as easily manipulated peons.

It's not about the defending the Constitution -- it's about the corporate charter of Koch Industries.

Happy Rosh Hashanah!
If you want to behave like this why don't you go to the dome where it is expected of you?

Zathras
09-09-2010, 02:34 AM
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0b389b6a-024a-44e4-a481-9049cd807b87.jpg

Fixed for accuracy.

Hey DUmbass, no one here gives a flying fuck about the opinions of a waste of skin coward such as yourself so shut the fuck up and take a long walk off a short pier.

malloc
09-09-2010, 04:09 AM
Seriously? You're actually trying to defend the "Dick Armey's not the leader" bullshit.


To everyone here, who actually participates in Tea Parties and knows what is going on within this movement, you just made yourself a laughing stock. If Dick Armey's the reason I show up at local events with my sign and conviction than the sun rises in the south, and I care more about Armey's agenda than I do about better prosperity for my children.

Seriously, Dick Armey is no Tea Party "Leader" any more than Sarah Palin is. If these two people didn't exist, the Tea Party still would.

I know it's really, really hard for you to imagine, but just pretend as if millions of Americans see themselves as individuals, and not part of some sort of higher collective. I know it probably hurts your brain, and you might need aspirin, but it's the truth. There are many more individualists than collectivists in this country. Dick Armey is the self-proclaimed leader of a single faucet, a single publicity arm of the Tea Party movement. Why doesn't he form a march on D.C.? Why doesn't he exercise his leadership powers and actually do something? With millions of Americans identifying themselves as Tea Party Activists, why didn't Dick Armey organize a "restoring honor" rally?



Okay, I'll bite, who is (are) the leader(s)??



Me, Gingersnap, my friend Jordan. You know, basically anyone who shows up, organizes the events, works to provide turnout. I think it's quite pathetic that you and your ilk, is working so hard to find a head to put on a spike to show the masses that centrally planned slavery is the better alternative, while the masses are organizing to counter your centrally planned effort. It sucks to fail so hard in so short period of time.


[QUOTE=hazlnut;311513]
You word games over 'leader' are tiresome. You know what I meant.

The Tea Party has several faces - Dick Armey is certainly one of them.
[\QUOTE]

Way to be evasive. Way to substitute "tiresome" for "irrefutable". There were no word games and you know it. You just aren't man enough to admit that an array of different Americans have taken the field this election year against your perfect societal ideology. I don't know what you meant about leader. Here you are saying that Dick Armey is a "leader" because he had the balls to publish something on the internet. Do you see how retarded and brain dead this assumption is? Anyone from anywhere can publish on the internet!

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 04:45 AM
Way to be evasive. Way to substitute "tiresome" for "irrefutable". There were no word games and you know it. You just aren't man enough to admit that an array of different Americans have taken the field this election year against your perfect societal ideology. I don't know what you meant about leader. Here you are saying that Dick Armey is a "leader" because he had the balls to publish something on the internet. Do you see how retarded and brain dead this assumption is? Anyone from anywhere can publish on the internet!

I'm saying Dick Armey is a leader of the TPs because he published a book that can be found in the bookstores, Amazon, CD audio. (http://www.borders.com/online/store/SearchResults?keyword=dick+armey&type=0&simple=1)

And because his group, Freedomworks, has been a major facilitator of every big Tea Party event.

I'm saying Dick Armey and Freedomworks are the kings of conservative Astroturfing -- BTW, this is not secret information. How do you not know this?



In January 2010, FreedomWorks was offering a "Citizen Lobby Training" for a Tea Party Patriot group whose cofounder was featured in a January 15 New York Times article on the movement's push to take control of the Republican party.

FreedomWorks was one of the lobbying groups involved in orchestrating the April 15, 2009 anti-Obama, anti-tax "tea parties". In February 2009, the FreedomWorks website said the group was "now working with other groups to plan a massive, nationwide tea party protest day for Tax Day on April 15th, 2009", the Tax Day Tea Party protests.

Summer 2009: In summer of 2009, FreedomWorks began pursuing an aggressive strategy to create the image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform at Congressmembers' town-hall meetings in their districts. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website "Tea Party Patriots," describes how members should infiltrate town hall meetings and harass and intimidate Democratic members of Congress:

"Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up ... You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation. Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else follow-up with a shout-out ... The goal is to rattle him ..."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Freedomworks#Astroturfing

warpig
09-09-2010, 08:48 AM
Conspiracism as part of an anti-regime populist movement works in a different fashion. Populist conspiracism sees secret plots by tiny cabals of evildoers as the major motor powering important historical events. Conspiracism tries to figure out how power is exercised in society, but ends up oversimplifying the complexites of modern society by blaming societal problems on manipulation by a handful of evil individuals.

This is not an analysis that accurately evaluates the systems, structures and institutions of modern society. As such, conspiracism is neither investigative reporting, which seeks to expose actual conspiracies through careful research; nor is it power structure research, which seeks to accurately analyze the distribution of power and privilege in a society.

The conspiracist blames societal or individual problems on what turns out to be a demonized scapegoat. Conspiracism is a narrative form of scapegoating that portrays an enemy as part of a vast insidious plot against the common good. Conspiracism assigns tiny cabals of evildoers a superhuman power to control events, frames social conflict as part of a transcendent struggle between Good and Evil, and makes leaps of logic, such as guilt by association, in analyzing evidence.

Conspiracists often employ common fallacies of logic in analyzing factual evidence to assert connections, causality, and intent that are frequently unlikely or nonexistent. As a distinct narrative form of scapegoating, conspiracism uses demonization to justify constructing the scapegoats as wholly evil while reconstructing the scapegoater as a hero.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/conspiracism.html

Gingersnap
09-09-2010, 10:20 AM
I'm saying Dick Armey is a leader of the TPs because he published a book that can be found in the bookstores, Amazon, CD audio. (http://www.borders.com/online/store/SearchResults?keyword=dick+armey&type=0&simple=1)

And because his group, Freedomworks, has been a major facilitator of every big Tea Party event.

I'm saying Dick Armey and Freedomworks are the kings of conservative Astroturfing -- BTW, this is not secret information. How do you not know this?

He wrote a book? Well, case closed then. I was not informed that distribution by Amazon was the de facto method of establishing veracity in the U.S. Kitty Kelley will be relieved to hear this.

Freedomworks is not "the major facilitator of every big Tea Party event". How could that even be? Freedomworks is not a huge organization at all and most of its activity happens in pretty narrow locations. Freedomworks has teamed up with numerous other organizations to take part in Tea Party events in a few areas but they are no different from the dozens of other conservative organizations that do the same thing. The biggest facilitators of Tea Party events are local organizations and business coupled with money from the membership and sympathizers. And by "biggest", I mean 90% of it.

Do you really think that the The Concerned Women of America are calling the shots in the Tea Party across the nation? If not, why not? They also participate in some Tea Party events. Hell, I've seen the Elks turn out for rallies. Is the the B.P.O.E. running the Tea Party?

Armey and Freedomworks aren't much of a blip on the radar of the actual membership, no more than Michelle Bachman and her Tea Party caucus. Just because someone jumps on a bandwagon, that doesn't mean they own wagon or know how to drive the horses.

hazlnut
09-09-2010, 11:00 AM
Armey and Freedomworks aren't much of a blip on the radar of the actual membership, no more than Michelle Bachman and her Tea Party caucus. Just because someone jumps on a bandwagon, that doesn't mean they own wagon or know how to drive the horses.


Again, according to the facts (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Freedomworks), they're pretty much financing the bandwagon and training the band.


Activities

FreedomWorks has mobilized opposition to health care reform, taxes, and climate legislation.

Astroturfing

2010
In January 2010, FreedomWorks was offering a "Citizen Lobby Training" for a Tea Party Patriot group[9] whose cofounder[10] was featured in a January 15 New York Times article on the movement's push to take control of the Republican party[11]

2009 - taxes, health care reform, climate

FreedomWorks was one of the lobbying groups involved in orchestrating the April 15, 2009 anti-Obama, anti-tax "tea parties". In February 2009, the FreedomWorks website said the group was "now working with other groups to plan a massive, nationwide tea party protest day for Tax Day on April 15th, 2009"[12], the Tax Day Tea Party protests.

Summer 2009: In summer of 2009, FreedomWorks began pursuing an aggressive strategy to create the image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform at Congressmembers' town-hall meetings in their districts. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website "Tea Party Patriots," describes how members should infiltrate town hall meetings and harass and intimidate Democratic members of Congress:

"Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up ... You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation. Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else follow-up with a shout-out ... The goal is to rattle him ..." [13]

August 2009: In August 2009, FreedomWorks supported the American Petroleum Institute's "Energy Citizens" rallies to oppose the Waxman-Markey Climate Bill, held in about 20 states. Other backers included the National Association of Manufacturers, American Conservative Union, Americans for Tax Reform and Council for Citizens Against Government Waste. [14]

More info (http://www.prwatch.org/node/9396) on who's paying for those TP busses and big screens...


Tea Party Support

While the Kochs have tried to distance themselves from the Tea Party movement, their support for it is evident. David Koch indicated his agreement with the Tea Party when he said it demonstrates the "powerful visceral hostility in the body politic against the massive increase in government power, the massive efforts to socialize this country." Just like Tea Party candidates Joe Miller in Alaska, Sharron Angle in Nevada, and Rand Paul in Kentucky -- all of whom who want to dismantle Medicare and Social Security as we known them -- the Kochs also display hostility towards Social Security and Medicare. On a company Web page titled "Koch Industries Perspectives on Current Issues," the Kochs take aim at Social Security, Medicare and government-funded pensions, portraying them as hampering the nation, without acknowledging that millions of Americans hit hard by the recession depend on these programs for survival. Charles Koch also repeats the Tea Party's refrain about Obama being a "socialist." In a newsletter sent to Koch Industry's seventy thousand employees, Charles Koch likened the Obama Administration to the regime of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez. He spouts the same "Obama-is-a-Socialist" Tea Party spin that we previously debunked here on PRWatch. The brothers ignore that American Socialist Party leaders completely dismissed at the idea that Obama is anything close to a Socialist. Paul Krugman of the New York Times has also noted that the Kochs fund FreedomWorks, another conservative pressure group that acts as a Tea Party organizer and strives to look like a grassroots outfit.

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Again, according to the facts (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Freedomworks), they're pretty much financing the bandwagon and training the band.



More info (http://www.prwatch.org/node/9396) on who's paying for those TP busses and big screens...

Dude when you get hung up on something you get hung up! It has been explained to you by 15 different people in several different ways, find another hill to die on!:rolleyes:

Zafod
09-09-2010, 11:48 AM
why do you guys keep trying with nut boy?

dude is a complete tool.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Dude when you get hung up on something you get hung up! It has been explained to you by 15 different people in several different ways, find another hill to die on!:rolleyes:

The left just cannot get over their repeated failure to deflate the influence of the TEAParties. They cannot stand that there is a grassroots movement that completely repudiates them and everything they stand for. In short - they can't stand what they cannot CONTROL.

PoliCon
09-09-2010, 11:59 AM
why do you guys keep trying with nut boy?

dude is a complete tool.

I'm waiting for him to be given the BLARCH treatment.

Gingersnap
09-09-2010, 12:39 PM
why do you guys keep trying with nut boy?

dude is a complete tool.

He's not even attempting rational discussion anymore so why should I bother?

http://i51.tinypic.com/vxgck3.jpg

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 01:02 PM
It's almost time to release the attack Jones!:D

Odysseus
09-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Jeez, someone got diarrhea of the mouth again. I guess all my digs at Teatards and such hurt your feelings.

Too bad. Fuck off.!
If reprinting your posts qualifies as diarrhea of the mouth, what does that say about the quality of your posts?


Ody:

I tried to be civil with you once a while back, and you had to play tough guy.
I don't play tough guy. I go to war to protect the rights of people like you; elitist tools who loathe their countrymen and can't wait to tell the world how much smarter you are than us. It isn't a game, it's real life. That's why your "Teatards" garbage is so noxious. People gathering together to protest against the encroaching behemoth of bloated government offends you, not because they are fools who are easily scammed, but because you despise anyone who doesn't think exactly the way that you do. You're a petty snob, masquerading as a sophisticate.

So you can bitch and moan about all the terrible things I said about your precious party of Teabrains, but here's a reality check, sweetie: You're a bunch of sheep in an astroturf bullshit movement funded by billionaires who see you as easily manipulated peons!

Billionaires who manipulate peons? Sounds like George Soros gave you a new talking point via Media Matters.
The only people who see Tea Partiers as easily manipulated peons are you and your ilk. If you could debate the issues, you would. Since you can't, you fill the page with snark and pretend that you're being civil.

It's not about the defending the Constitution -- it's about the corporate charter of Koch Industries.

Happy Rosh Hashanah!
I don't know that Koch is Jewish (I believe that he is Dutch), but I will take that in the spirit in which it is offered and point out that among my people, the term for someone like yourself is "schmuck."

Wei Wu Wei
09-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Billionaires who manipulate peons? Sounds like George Soros gave you a new talking point via Media Matters.
The only people who see Tea Partiers as easily manipulated peons are you and your ilk. If you could debate the issues, you would. Since you can't, you fill the page with snark and pretend that you're being civil.

This is your response? George Soros? Any idiot knows that money is power, and power concentrated so starkly as is our society is a means of great oppression.

Jfor
09-09-2010, 03:10 PM
This is your response? George Soros? Any idiot knows that money is power, and power concentrated so starkly as is our society is a means of great oppression.

Wow... you sure did pick out only one thing the Major said to comment on. Grow a pair and get a job you money grubbing bum.

Rockntractor
09-09-2010, 03:11 PM
This is your response? George Soros? Any idiot knows that money is power, and power concentrated so starkly as is our society is a means of great oppression.
That made no sense!
:confused:

Zafod
09-09-2010, 03:14 PM
swoopy poopy.

about right....

Odysseus
09-09-2010, 05:35 PM
This is your response? George Soros? Any idiot knows that money is power, and power concentrated so starkly as is our society is a means of great oppression.
Even if this were true, and that's highly debatable, why is it that Soros, who has spent hundreds of millions of dollars undermining American democracy doesn't count as an oppressor in your world, but Koch, who has spent his money expanding liberty, does?

Wow... you sure did pick out only one thing the Major said to comment on. Grow a pair and get a job you money grubbing bum.
It was the only thing that I wrote that could be addressed from a Marxist class warfare narrative perspective. Everything else was just noise to him.

malloc
09-11-2010, 04:15 AM
I'm saying Dick Armey is a leader of the TPs because he published a book that can be found in the bookstores, Amazon, CD audio. (http://www.borders.com/online/store/SearchResults?keyword=dick+armey&type=0&simple=1)

And because his group, Freedomworks, has been a major facilitator of every big Tea Party event.

I'm saying Dick Armey and Freedomworks are the kings of conservative Astroturfing -- BTW, this is not secret information. How do you not know this?

So what you are saying is that the Tea Party movement isn't a genuine grass roots movement!? Are you saying this movement, which has broken primaries, gained national media attention, and regularly holds events which brings in hundreds of thousands of people is astroturf?

This is wishful thinking at it's core. You see what you want to see, and ignore real facts. If this were astroturf, bought and paid for, would non-party line republican candidates have such impressive fund raising figures? Of course they wouldn't, but don't let little facts cloud your bright sunny socialist utopia. I don't know an easier way to tell you that you are a fucktard, other than telling you point blank that you are a fucktard. The vast majority of Americans don't like being forced into economic servitude, and they sure as hell don't like to be told what they must spend their money on, much less what they should spend their money on. The tea party is a majority movement, and it sucks to be a progressive under that sort of political might, but to pretend that the Tea Party is anything less than a mass, popular movement, only detriments your cause. Please, continue to believe that the Tea Party is astroturf, while they are absolutely ruining any chance left wing candidates have at being elected.

You lose whether you acknowledge the grass rootiness of the tea party or not, the tea party isn't here for your approval or acknowledgment, your ideological values will be swept aside in this torrent. When your party is out of power, and your Messiah is a one term lame duck, come back here and tell us all how the tea party is astroturfing.