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IanMartins
08-16-2008, 04:15 PM
I posted this video in a reply to another thread, but figured it deserves a thread of its own. Its a very enlightning treatise on the American form of government, in comparison to other forms of government. Every Republican should find this interesting, though unlike the Democrats you may know most of the material presented here already. In any case, I find it very inspiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE

The Night Owl
08-16-2008, 04:27 PM
I posted this video in a reply to another thread, but figured it deserves a thread of its own. Its a very enlightning treatise on the American form of government, in comparison to other forms of government. Every Republican should find this interesting, though unlike the Democrats you may know most of the material presented here already. In any case, I find it very inspiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE

I stopped watching at 00:30. The United States is a constitutional federal republic... which is one of many forms of democracy.

IanMartins
08-16-2008, 04:36 PM
I stopped watching at 00:30. The United States is a constitutional federal republic... which is one of many forms of democracy.

"Constitutional" refers to the fact that government of the United States is based on a Constitution, which is the supreme law of the federal government, including the governments of the 50 states. Its only a democracy within the limitations of the Constitution, though the word "democracy" never appears in it. Its not surprising that a Democrat would refuse to watch anything that might challenge his views though -- reveling in ignorance is probably more comforting.

The Night Owl
08-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Its only a democracy within the limitations of the Constitution...

... but a democracy nonetheless.

IanMartins
08-16-2008, 06:37 PM
... but a democracy nonetheless.

As the video points out, the word "democracy" does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, nor in the U.S. Constitution or in any of the constitutions of the 50 states. The only democratic aspect of our Constitutional Republic is the election of government officials, whose powers are limited by the Constitution. The depraved mob rule that so many of you democrats favor is not the American way (though we've certainly been moving in that unlawful direction, largely thanks to the efforts of intellectually bankrupt college professors).

This was a better response than what you deserved.

The Night Owl
08-16-2008, 07:04 PM
As the video points out, the word "democracy" does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, nor in the U.S. Constitution or in any of the constitutions of the 50 states. The only democratic aspect of our Constitutional Republic is the election of government officials, whose powers are limited by the Constitution. The depraved mob rule that so many of you democrats favor is not the American way (though we've certainly been moving in that unlawful direction, largely thanks to the efforts of intellectually bankrupt college professors).

This was a better response than what you deserved.

I'm not suggesting that the United States is or should be a pure democracy. All I'm saying is that a constitutional republic is a form of democracy. The term "democracy" is an umbrella term which defines a number of systems and the system the US operates under clearly fits this definition.

IanMartins
08-16-2008, 07:36 PM
I'm not suggesting that the United States is or should be a pure democracy.

Good.


All I'm saying is that a constitutional republic is a form of democracy. The term "democracy" is an umbrella term which defines a number of systems and the system the US operates under clearly fits this definition.

A Republic and a Democracy are two distinctly separate forms of government, although they do have certain things in common. Unlike the Republic however, a Democracy doesn't adhere to any distinct political order or set of laws. It's a form of government without substance, and like a ship without a captain, drifting at random in mid-ocean at the mercy of any chance wind, wave or current -- much like a person who doesn't live by a philosophy.

"Constitutional Republic" is one of the many forms of government under the umbrella term of "Republic". This is the base of the American form of government. The democratic process through which our representatives are elected falls under the umbrella term of "Constitutional Republic", since the powers of the democratically elected representatives are limited by the Constitution.

Sonnabend
08-16-2008, 08:01 PM
Democracy: Majority over Man


In both the direct type and the representative type of Democracy, The majority’s power is absolute and unlimited; its decisions are unappealable under the legal system established to give effect to this form of government. This opens the door to unlimited tyranny-by-majority

Republic:Man over Majority.


The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution (http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html)--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate.

Night Owl: pwned yet again.

The Night Owl
08-16-2008, 08:55 PM
"Constitutional Republic" is one of the many forms of government under the umbrella term of "Republic". This is the base of the American form of government. The democratic process through which our representatives are elected falls under the umbrella term of "Constitutional Republic", since the powers of the democratically elected representatives are limited by the Constitution.

A constitutional republic, as you describe it, falls under the generic category of liberal democracy. If the following description sounds like us, that it is because it is us...


Liberal democracy

A Liberal democracy is a representative democracy in which the ability of the elected representatives to exercise decision-making power is subject to the rule of law, and usually moderated by a constitution that emphasizes the protection of the rights and freedoms of individuals, and which places constraints on the leaders and on the extent to which the will of the majority can be exercised against the rights of minorities (see civil liberties).

...


A liberal democracy may take the form of a constitutional republic or a constitutional monarchy. Some publications would characterize certain nations which happen to be currently ruled by Christian democrats, Socialists or conservatives as liberal democracies, despite the fact that the governing party may or may not espouse policies that are aligned with either classical liberalism or contemporary "liberal" (or left-wing) ideals, as long as the underlying governmental structure includes respect for the aforementioned rights.

...

There is general agreement that the states of the European Union, Japan, the United States, Canada, India, South Africa, Israel, Australia, and New Zealand are liberal democracies, with India currently being the largest in the world.

...


http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Liberal_democracy

So, there you have it. Okay?

You're not wrong to point out the difference between a republic and a democracy. All I'm saying is that there is some overlap here.

IanMartins
08-17-2008, 05:32 AM
Remember that the modern day American definition of "Liberal" is a perversion caused by the Democratic Party (by their definition, it practically means "Socialist"). In the true definition of the word, "Liberal" means someone who consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith and John Locke were true Liberals. The source that you pulled that definition (Liberal Democracy) is a British one, I believe, and for all their flaws, the British still have the correct definition intact.

Regardless, the term "Liberal Democracy" did not exist when the United States was founded. Its a term that was defined in more modern days. Like I said, the word "democracy" does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, nor in the U.S. Constitution or in any of the constitutions of the 50 states. The Founding Fathers were very vocal about the United States not being a democracy, as history had taught them the horrible long-term consequences of such a system.


Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.-- John Adams


It had been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience had proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.-- Alexander Hamilton


A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. –Thomas Jefferson


”A democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
–Thomas Jefferson

While there has been a certain overlap between the words "republic" and "democracy" in more modern times, its only due to the influence and intellectual sloth of the Democratic Party, which now has its own subjective terms for not only "liberal" (socialist), but for "justice" (social justice, forcefully taking money from the ones who earn it and giving it to the ones who doesn't earn it), "equality" (forcing people to be equal, rather than treating them equally), "tolerance" (appeasment), etc.

A word can only have one true objective identity. If you go to the core of the word, a Democracy refers to unlimited majority rule, a social system in which one's work, one's property, one's mind, and one's life are at the mercy of any gang that may muster the vote of a majority at any moment for any purpose. A Constitutional Republic is a form of government restricted to the protection of individual rights. In such a system, majority rule is applicable only to lesser details, such as the selection of certain personnel. But the majority has no say over the basic principles governing the government. It has no power to ask for or gain the infringement of individual rights.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic. It may however be argued that it has unlawfully degraded towards being a Democracy ever since 1930, and that it continues to do so despite the noble efforts of Ronald Reagan, who at least managed to give us more time.

The Night Owl
08-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Remember that the modern day American definition of "Liberal" is a perversion caused by the Democratic Party (by their definition, it practically means "Socialist"). In the true definition of the word, "Liberal" means someone who consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith and John Locke were true Liberals. The source that you pulled that definition (Liberal Democracy) is a British one, I believe, and for all their flaws, the British still have the correct definition intact.


Words aren't necessarily limited to only one meaning. Consider...


All modern liberal democracies are also representative democracies. Instead of gathering to vote directly on the laws as in Athens, citizens today vote for lawmakers who draft and pass laws, and for executives responsible for putting the laws into effect. The indirect rule of the people through their representatives involves a further modification of democracy’s original meaning. Indeed, in the 18th century, when America and France were bringing modern liberal democracy into being, the objection had to be overcome that, because the people must rule directly, democracy was only applicable to small, tight-knit populations, living closely together in a single, compact, well-defined geographic area.

...


The liberal principle modifies the democratic principle in at least two crucial ways. First, it proclaims that, from the point of view of moral and political life, our common humanity is more fundamental than differences of class, sex, race or even religious belief. And second, by defining freedom and equality in terms of rights that preexist government, the liberal principle asserts that there are some actions government may not take against individuals regardless of how large and how passionate the majority in favor of them. When most people today use the term democracy, what they actually mean is liberal democracy.

http://usinfo.state.gov/dd/democracy_dialogues/democracys_challenge.html


If you go to the core of the word, a Democracy refers to unlimited majority rule, a social system in which one's work, one's property, one's mind, and one's life are at the mercy of any gang that may muster the vote of a majority at any moment for any purpose. A Constitutional Republic is a form of government restricted to the protection of individual rights. In such a system, majority rule is applicable only to lesser details, such as the selection of certain personnel. But the majority has no say over the basic principles governing the government. It has no power to ask for or gain the infringement of individual rights.

The word "democracy" can be defined as unlimted majority rule, which is commonly called direct democracy or pure democracy, but it is not limited to that definition. Look up the word "democracy" in any dictionary or encyclopedia...

de·moc·ra·cy (dĭ-mŏk'rə-sē)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democracy

Representative forms of government such as that of the United States are not direct democracies... but they are democracies nonetheless.

Sonnabend
08-17-2008, 11:06 AM
Representative forms of government such as that of the United States are not direct democracies... but they are democracies nonetheless.

In a word? No.