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Gingersnap
09-14-2010, 11:53 AM
Who are the Palestinians?

Op-ed: ‘Palestinianism’ no more than political construct, rather than legitimate national identity

Moshe Dann
Published: 09.13.10, 18:50 / Israel Opinion

Prime Minister Netanyahu has called upon Palestinian leaders to recognize the right of the Jewish people to national self-determination – "two states for two nations." But are Palestinian Arabs a nation, or a people? What is "Palestinian national identity" based on? Although taken for granted today, Palestinianism has neither a long, nor distinguished history, which may explain why the peace process between Israel and the Arabs has failed and will continue to fail.

Palestinianism, inherently meant only one thing: the rejection of a Jewish state in any form. A few elite Arab intellectuals did talk about Palestinianism, but it was not widely accepted. As Columbia University Professor Rashid Khalidi shows in his book on the subject, not until Zionists began settlements did local Arabs seek an alternative.

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Focused on opposition to Zionists, rather than a positive self-definition, "Palestinian identity" then, as now, was negative. Palestinian leaders, like the mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husayni, an ardent supporter of the Nazis, and arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat - "fathers" of Palestinianism - rejected Zionism and promoted terrorism.

Anti-colonial and anti-Zionist uprisings against British rule were not directed towards another independent Palestinian state. Nor were Arab riots and pogroms, like those in 1929, 1936, for example, nationalistic. There were no calls for a Palestinian state; the battle cry was, "Kill the Jews."

Arab leaders like Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi told the Peel Commission in 1937: "There is no such country as 'Palestine'; 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented!"

During the 1930s, anti-British and anti-Jewish riots were enflamed by the newly created "Arab – not Palestinian - Higher Committee," the central political organ of the Arab community of Mandate Palestine.

In 1946, Arab historian Philip Hitti testified before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry that "there is no such thing as Palestine in history.” In 1947, Arab leaders protesting the UN partition plan argued that Palestine was part of Syria and “politically, the Arabs of Palestine (were) not (an) independent separate … political entity.”

In 1947, the UN proposed a "Jewish" State and an "Arab" – not Palestinian – State. Efforts to organize a political leadership in 1948, in response to the establishment of Israel, soon collapsed.

The womb of Palestinianism was war, the Nakba (catastrophe) in the Arab narrative, the establishment of the State of Israel. Five well-armed Arab countries invaded the nascent state, joining local Arab gangs and militias in a genocidal war to exterminate the Jews. This was not seen as a war for Palestinian nationalism, however; it was a genocidal war against Jews and Zionism itself.

‘Palestinians’ used to be Jews

Arab gangs that attacked Jews in 1947/8 were called the "Arab - not Palestinian - Army of Liberation." The reason is that prior to Israel's establishment, the notion of a "Palestinian people" was irrelevant, since Arab affiliations are primarily familial and tribal – not national. And also because "Palestinian" meant something else back then.

Before 1948, those who were called (and called themselves) "Palestinians" were Jews, not Arabs, although both carried the same British passports. In fact, only after Jews in Palestine called themselves Israelis, in 1948, could Arabs adopt "Palestinian" as theirs exclusively. Indeed, the central organ of the pre-Israel Jewish community was called "The Palestine Post" – later changed to the Jerusalem Post.

Read the whole thing here. (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3953601,00.html)

Odysseus
09-14-2010, 03:23 PM
Read the whole thing here. (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3953601,00.html)

And Gator will show up with a tirade of obscenities in three... two... one...

marv
09-14-2010, 04:39 PM
The closest anyone could possibly come to a "Palestinian" identity might be the Canaanites. In any event, they disappeared as a culture after about 1200BC in the Aegean Apocalypse.

Rockntractor
09-14-2010, 04:47 PM
The closest anyone could possibly come to a "Palestinian" identity might be the Canaanites. In any event, they disappeared as a culture after about 1200BC in the Aegean Apocalypse.
Some have said Samaritans.

Bailey
09-14-2010, 05:29 PM
Gators brothers in Arms.

Odysseus
09-14-2010, 06:33 PM
The closest anyone could possibly come to a "Palestinian" identity might be the Canaanites. In any event, they disappeared as a culture after about 1200BC in the Aegean Apocalypse.

Palestine comes from the Latin, Palestina, which came from the Greek, Palaistine (Herodotus), which was derived from the Hebrew Pelesheth, literally "Philistia, land of the Philistines." The Romans changed the name after the defeat of the Bar Kochba rebellion against Rome, around 120 AD. It was meant as a punitive measure, as it was the Latinization of the name of the ancient enemy of the Jewish people, the Philistines, who had not been seen in the region for centuries. The Ottomans didn't have a name for Palestine, as it was divided among three administrative regions: the Vilayet of Beirut, the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem, and the Vilayet of Damascus. When Britain took over the region from the Ottoman empire, they referred to Roman maps and begain referring to the province as Palestine. Before the Ottomans, it was known as The Holy Land, Judea or the Levant.

warpig
09-14-2010, 06:43 PM
I thought most of the people living in "Palestine" were of Jordanian origins. That they were a sect that was run out of their orignal country.

Rockntractor
09-14-2010, 06:58 PM
I thought most of the people living in "Palestine" were of Jordanian origins. That they were a sect that was run out of their orignal country.
Most of them turned up in those tent cities after the Jordanian war, but no one ever seems to mention that.:confused:

warpig
09-14-2010, 07:04 PM
Most of them turned up in those tent cities after the Jordanian war, but no one ever seems to mention that.:confused:

Yeah, admitting to that.......how does that make the jew look bad???:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
09-14-2010, 07:07 PM
Yeah, admitting to that.......how does that make the jew look bad???:rolleyes:

If I remember correctly the Jews were the only ones that let any refuges in. If it were left up to the Arabs the so called Palestinians would still be living in tents.

warpig
09-14-2010, 07:08 PM
If I remember correctly the Jews were the only ones that let any refuges in. If it were left up to the Arabs the so called Palestinians would still be living in tents.

They even offered to allow arabs to become citizens and buy their land from them.

marv
09-14-2010, 08:02 PM
If I remember correctly the Jews were the only ones that let any refuges in. If it were left up to the Arabs the so called Palestinians would still be living in tents.

They even offered to allow arabs to become citizens and buy their land from them.
Correct. Not one neighboring state want the Palestinians. The Jews were the only ones who were willing to tolerate and accept them. Such is human nature.

warpig
09-14-2010, 08:31 PM
Correct. Not one neighboring state want the Palestinians. The Jews were the only ones who were willing to tolerate and accept them. Such is human nature.

Just proves the old adage, "no good deed goes unpunished".

Gingersnap
09-14-2010, 08:36 PM
Some have said Samaritans.

Nope. Samaritans still exist (barely). They are not Muslims or Arab-speakers and they are pretty much despised by Muslims (as are all non-Muslims in that part of the world).

Sonnabend
09-15-2010, 06:46 AM
Who are the Palestinians?
Who is the Loch Ness Monster
What are the names of the fairies at the bottom of the garden?
What is the name of the Easter Bunny's secretary?

No one knows, because none of the above have any existence in reality.

There is no Easter Bunny
There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden
And there is no such place as "Palestine".

KhrushchevsShoe
09-15-2010, 07:51 AM
Who are the Palestinians?
Who is the Loch Ness Monster
What are the names of the fairies at the bottom of the garden?
What is the name of the Easter Bunny's secretary?

No one knows, because none of the above have any existence in reality.

There is no Easter Bunny
There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden
And there is no such place as "Palestine".

http://aledwynne.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/spoon.jpg

There is no spoon.

Zathras
09-15-2010, 09:13 AM
There is no spoon.

There is no brain in the above poster.

Rockntractor
09-15-2010, 09:17 AM
There is no brain in the above poster.

He is like Wei Wei if you remove his sense of humor, wit and fiber from his diet.

noonwitch
09-15-2010, 01:04 PM
I would define the palestineans as people of arabic descent who live within the borders of the nations currently called Israel and Jordan. Some Palestineans are jews and christians, but most are muslims.


I would think that the Palestineans would reject that word, however. Research has shown that the Philistines, whom the romans got the word Palestine from, were probably not a group who were native to the area, that they may have originally been seafaring greeks who ended up on the eastern end of the Med.

Odysseus
09-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I would define the palestineans as people of arabic descent who live within the borders of the nations currently called Israel and Jordan. Some Palestineans are jews and christians, but most are muslims.
I would think that the Palestineans would reject that word, however. Research has shown that the Philistines, whom the romans got the word Palestine from, were probably not a group who were native to the area, that they may have originally been seafaring greeks who ended up on the eastern end of the Med.

Phoenicians, actually. They were wiped out centuries before the Roman conquest of Judea, and the name was applied because the Romans wanted to wipe out the Judeans after the two bloodiest rebellions they ever had to suppress. Renaming the land after the hereditary enemy of the Judeans was a punitive act that was also meant to eliminate the Judean province as Judea. It was part of an overall ethnic cleansing that included prohibitions on the practice of Judaism, the declaration of Jerusalem as a "polis" which could only be entered by Roman citizens, and the scattering of the majority of the population of the country.

Sonnabend
09-15-2010, 04:04 PM
There is no spoon.

Seeing as the Matrix was a FICTIONAL universe created as an artificial reality, no there is no spoon...or Palestine either.

hampshirebrit
09-15-2010, 07:01 PM
"Don't bend de thpoooon, bend de thpace around de thpooon"

http://www.fakesteve.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/photo_movieMatrix-quoteSpoon.jpeg

Is that you, KS?

:D Is this me? :D