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View Full Version : Do you believe we're in a holy war and/or a war with Islam?



CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 08:18 PM
Do you believe America is at war with Islam--All of Islam--Or simply some Radical Muslims?

Wei Wu Wei
09-18-2010, 08:26 PM
lol no this isn't a Captain America comic strip. America is not at war with Islam of any form.

Rockntractor
09-18-2010, 08:29 PM
We have declared war on no one but there are those that have declared war on us.
Ask them.

Wei Wu Wei
09-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Individuals have declared on war us. Various groups with different political agendas. America is the largest most powerful force in the history of the world, of course there's people who want to fight what they see as Imperialism. It's not about Islam.

Rockntractor
09-18-2010, 08:35 PM
Individuals have declared on war us. Various groups with different political agendas. America is the largest most powerful force in the history of the world, of course there's people who want to fight what they see as Imperialism. It's not about Islam.
Oh I see you have talked to them,why do they cry Allah Akbar.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 08:43 PM
Do you believe America is at war with Islam--All of Islam--Or simply some Radical Muslims?

No but I believe this is an accurate photo of you

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/head_up_your_ass2.jpg

Apache
09-18-2010, 08:50 PM
Do you believe America is at war with Islam--All of Islam--Or simply some Radical Muslims?

I believe Islam is at war with the West and whoever disagrees with them. As far as America, no we aren't, just ask Zero...

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 08:53 PM
No but I believe this is an accurate photo of you

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/head_up_your_ass2.jpg

Why are you obsessed with me? It's getting to be creepy at this point.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 08:58 PM
Why are you obsessed with me? It's getting to be creepy at this point.

When you post loaded questions like this in an effort to look "intelligent", when you tell lies that make you look like Speedy, when you spout liberal talking points, my BS meter explodes.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 09:05 PM
I find an interesting corollary between the title of this thread and this comment you posted about a US Marine


He joined the marines, he said, because he is a soldier of God and is fighting a war against God's enemies--a modern crusade is the way he put it--That is who he is serving. He also serves because he feels the need to be part of something larger--major insecurity issues. He has said that without his rifle he is ''nothing'', and without the corps., he is ''nothing''.

This is the same guy who let the aforementioned friend (other marine) talk about his own ''beloved'' girlfriend like a whore simply because he was also a marine, thereby making them 'brothers'.

Do we see a recurring theme here, people?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 09:44 PM
No but I believe this is an accurate photo of you

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/head_up_your_ass2.jpg


When you post loaded questions like this in an effort to look "intelligent", when you tell lies that make you look like Speedy, when you spout liberal talking points, my BS meter explodes.

A loaded question? It's simply a fucking YES or NO question.
You keep bringing up the Marine thing. I wonder why? What affronts YOU so personally about it?
You've had a major hard on against me ever since that, and you're not going to stop it seems.
It's a dead issue, and me and the guy settled our differences, but AGAIN, you bring it up and ask for who he is, in order to start a fist fight or renew issues between me and the guy, I suppose.

NJCardFan
09-18-2010, 09:59 PM
No, but radical Islamists have declared a holy war on us. Familiar with the term Jihad? Jihad means holy war geniuses.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 10:01 PM
Do you believe we're in a holy war and/or a war with Islam?This isnt a loaded question? Really?


You keep bringing up the Marine thing. I wonder why? What affronts YOU so personally about it?This


I find an interesting corollary between the title of this thread and this comment you posted about a US Marine

He joined the marines, he said, because he is a soldier of God and is fighting a war against God's enemies--a modern crusade is the way he put it--That is who he is serving. He also serves because he feels the need to be part of something larger--major insecurity issues. He has said that without his rifle he is ''nothing'', and without the corps., he is ''nothing''.

This is the same guy who let the aforementioned friend (other marine) talk about his own ''beloved'' girlfriend like a whore simply because he was also a marine, thereby making them 'brothers'.

Do we see a recurring theme here, people?
You've had a major hard on against me ever since that, and you're not going to stop it seems.When my BS detector keeps going off on the crap you keep posting, when you are caught out on lie after lie, you're surprised?


It's a dead issue, and me and the guy settled our differences, but AGAIN, you bring it up and ask for who he is, in order to start a fist fight or renew issues between me and the guy, I suppose. I am not going to ask because I dont think he exists, I think you're a liar, I found major holes in your other screeds, including the one where you accuse a man of a major felony and then when called on it, admit in fact you have no actual proof whatsoever of him doing any such thing.

You're so full of it I can smell you from here.

And now you come to a Conservative forum and post a "gotcha" type thread title a la Couric and wonder why you're picked up on it?

You dont see the disconnect? Everyone else does.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Oh, if only we could bring back slavery, eh? I mean as long as it's only dark colored people who are enslaved.

And that's an indication of how little credibility you have.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 11:29 PM
And that's an indication of how little credibility you have.

Why are you concerned with my credibility? Worry about your own.
The fact that you obsessively go hunting for my posts in order to attack me is very creepy.
If you don't like me, or my posts, here's a nice clue: DON'T READ THEM!
But no, you will probably go in every topic I make, regardless of what it's about, to attack me.
And yeah, the guy does exist. I know you'd like to believe he doesn't, but he does. Sorry pal.

Sonnabend
09-18-2010, 11:41 PM
Why are you concerned with my credibility? Worry about your own.

I'm not the one who doesnt know enough about his own Constitution to understand the meaning and import of the 10th Amendment.


The fact that you obsessively go hunting for my posts in order to attack me is very creepy. If you don't like me, or my posts, here's a nice clue: DON'T READ THEM!

Weren't you the one asking to have your account deleted? Yet here you are again


But no, you will probably go in every topic I make, regardless of what it's about, to attack me.

It isn't about you. Its about what you post.


And yeah, the guy does exist. I know you'd like to believe he doesn't, but he does. Sorry pal.

Really? Whats his name and unit, then? I'd like to send him what you've written about him and ask him how much of it is true.. Does he know that you've held him up to ridicule here? Does he KNOW what you've said about him here?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 11:45 PM
And that's an indication of how little credibility you have.


I'm not the one who doesnt know enough about his own Constitution to understand the meaning and import of the 10th Amendment.



Weren't you the one asking to have your account deleted? Yet here you are again



It isn't about you. Its about what you post.



Really? Whats his name and unit, then? I'd like to send him what you've written about him and ask him how much of it is true.. Does he know that you've held him up to ridicule here? Does he KNOW what you've said about him here?

Fine fuck it I'll leave.
You're going to keep hounding me in EVERY thread till I do. So fuck it, you win.

I never named the motherfucker here, so you don't know who he is. He's a nameless fucking face, so what is your BIG FUCKING DEAL about it? GET THE FUCKING FUCK OVER IT!

Wei Wu Wei
09-18-2010, 11:45 PM
Oh I see you have talked to them,why do they cry Allah Akbar.

Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.

Wei Wu Wei
09-18-2010, 11:47 PM
As for Islam itself, it is something else entirely, with various interpretations, but is fairly mainstream shares the same roots as Judaism and Christianity.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.

EXCEPT, WE'RE NOT THE FUCKING EMPIRE FROM STAR WARS. YOU'RE A DISGRACE TO THE WORD LIBERAL TO EVEN BE JUSTIFYING THE STUFF TERRORISTS DO. YOU AND SONNABEND ARE JUST TWO SIDES OF THE SAME GODDAMN COIN.

SO, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR MORAL RELATIVIST VIEWS.

Wei Wu Wei
09-18-2010, 11:51 PM
EXCEPT, WE'RE NOT THE FUCKING EMPIRE FROM STAR WARS. YOU'RE A DISGRACE TO THE WORD LIBERAL TO EVEN BE JUSTIFYING THE STUFF TERRORISTS DO. YOU AND SONNABEND ARE JUST TWO SIDES OF THE SAME GODDAMN COIN.

SO, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR MORAL RELATIVIST VIEWS.

Oh boohoo someone tries to explain their views including how they see us. cry about it

Know thy enemy. Child.

Rockntractor
09-18-2010, 11:53 PM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.
You do know that it was doctors that did the attack on the British train station, and the 911 attackers were well educated.
Your argument is old and doesn't hold water, come up with something new that hasn't been disproven here a hundred times!

FlaGator
09-19-2010, 12:00 AM
As for Islam itself, it is something else entirely, with various interpretations, but is fairly mainstream shares the same roots as Judaism and Christianity.

Islam is to Judaism what the Sex Pistols are to the Beatles.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 12:01 AM
Fine fuck it I'll leave.Again?


You're going to keep hounding me in EVERY thread till I do. So fuck it, you win.Hiow about you address the points I raise?


I never named the motherfucker here, so you don't know who he is. He's a nameless fucking face, so what is your BIG FUCKING DEAL about it? GET THE FUCKING FUCK OVER IT!He's a nameless face you've used as an "example" over and over again.

Does he know you've used him here? Is he aware that along with the description of him you've added the rider "and he is a US Marine"?...you never actually explained to us why that particular detail was important.


EXCEPT, WE'RE NOT THE FUCKING EMPIRE FROM STAR WARS. YOU'RE A DISGRACE TO THE WORD LIBERAL TO EVEN BE JUSTIFYING THE STUFF TERRORISTS DO. YOU AND SONNABEND ARE JUST TWO SIDES OF THE SAME GODDAMN COIN.My my, someone really is off his meds. You keep carrying on as if this is all new and terrorism has never been an issue before this. Militant Islam and murder and terrorist incidents have been going on for decades


SO, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR MORAL RELATIVIST VIEWS.I wasnt aware I had posted any.

FlaGator
09-19-2010, 12:04 AM
Why are you concerned with my credibility? Worry about your own.
The fact that you obsessively go hunting for my posts in order to attack me is very creepy.
If you don't like me, or my posts, here's a nice clue: DON'T READ THEM!
But no, you will probably go in every topic I make, regardless of what it's about, to attack me.
And yeah, the guy does exist. I know you'd like to believe he doesn't, but he does. Sorry pal.

Word of advice. Consider the source and respond accordingly.

Zathras
09-19-2010, 12:05 AM
Fine fuck it I'll leave.
You're going to keep hounding me in EVERY thread till I do. So fuck it, you win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE


I never named the motherfucker here, so you don't know who he is. He's a nameless fucking face, so what is your BIG FUCKING DEAL about it? GET THE FUCKING FUCK OVER IT!

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/crybaby-truth.jpg

Wei Wu Wei
09-19-2010, 12:06 AM
You do know that it was doctors that did the attack on the British train station, and the 911 attackers were well educated.
Your argument is old and doesn't hold water, come up with something new that hasn't been disproven here a hundred times!

Yes these large scale attacks are often done by people who believe the radical yet still educated ideology. While they often plan attacks, complex long term suicide attacks like the 911 attackers who spent months planning often use educated people. I'm fairly certain most people who drive bomb cars into police checkpoints or suicide bomb a parking lot and killing 4 people are not as educated.

Still, at every level of education there is opposition to the United States as an imperialistic force as well as our alliance and funding of Israel which they see as an enemy and threat.

When you have the most powerful nation to ever exist in the history of mankind, with more wealth that can be accurately imaginable and enough military power to blow up the entire world, you're going to have people, dumb and smart, who have oppositions. Most people, especially in America see this as a great thing, and cannot fathom how on earth anyone could not see things the way they see things.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-19-2010, 12:06 AM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.


Again?

Hiow about you address the points I raise?

He's a nameless face you've used as an "example" over and over again.

Does he know you've used him here? Is he aware that along with the description of him you've added the rider "and he is a US Marine"?...you never actually explained to us why that particular detail was important.

My my, someone really is off his meds. You keep carrying on as if this is all new and terrorism has never been an issue before this. Militant Islam and murder and terrorist incidents have been going on for decades

I wasnt aware I had posted any.

The last two points were to Wee Wee, who wrote a whole essay justifying why terrorists hate us, not you. I know terrorism is nothing new.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-19-2010, 12:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE



http://news.lavenderliberal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/crybaby-truth.jpg

Why do you people hate me?
You're worse to me than you are to Wee Wee.

Rockntractor
09-19-2010, 12:12 AM
Yes these large scale attacks are often done by people who believe the radical yet still educated ideology. While they often plan attacks, complex long term suicide attacks like the 911 attackers who spent months planning often use educated people. I'm fairly certain most people who drive bomb cars into police checkpoints or suicide bomb a parking lot and killing 4 people are not as educated.

Still, at every level of education there is opposition to the United States as an imperialistic force as well as our alliance and funding of Israel which they see as an enemy and threat.

When you have the most powerful nation to ever exist in the history of mankind, with more wealth that can be accurately imaginable and enough military power to blow up the entire world, you're going to have people, dumb and smart, who have oppositions. Most people, especially in America see this as a great thing, and cannot fathom how on earth anyone could not see things the way they see things.

Isn't their reference to us as the great Satan a religious one?

Wei Wu Wei
09-19-2010, 12:12 AM
caughtinthemiddle titled his final paper for sociology 101 "Why I Like Freedom"

Wei Wu Wei
09-19-2010, 12:14 AM
Isn't their reference to us as the great Satan a religious one?

Yeah what I'm saying, by combining appealing fundamentalist religious iconography and complex militant-political goals they can have a lot of persuasion and influence in an areas that are both underprivileged or that have suffered any collateral damage from the United States and are left with a void of understanding which radical pseudo-islamic belief systems fit right into.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
09-19-2010, 12:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE



http://news.lavenderliberal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/crybaby-truth.jpg


caughtinthemiddle titled his final paper for sociology 101 "Why I Like Freedom"


And Wee Wee titled his American History paper on "Why America is a Big Mean, Evil Empire."

Rockntractor
09-19-2010, 12:18 AM
Yeah what I'm saying, by combining appealing fundamentalist religious iconography and complex militant-political goals they can have a lot of persuasion and influence in an areas that are both underprivileged or that have suffered any collateral damage from the United States and are left with a void of understanding which radical pseudo-islamic belief systems fit right into.
Their leadership has kept the wealth away from the people, we pay them billions for their oil, but even so the terrorism is most often state sponsored at some level.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 12:24 AM
Word of advice. Consider the source and respond accordingly.

Yes, please do, take his advice, spend your time concentrating on me and not on the massive holes and lies I have caught you out on.

God knows no one wants to know about those....:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
09-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Yeah what I'm saying, by combining appealing fundamentalist religious iconography and complex militant-political goals they can have a lot of persuasion and influence in an areas that are both underprivileged or that have suffered any collateral damage from the United States and are left with a void of understanding which radical pseudo-islamic belief systems fit right into.
In most cases these attacks are in keeping with the teachings of Islam and are not false beliefs according to their Koran.
I would say that they as a whole, believe that they are waging a holy war against us, but we as fools, fail to acknowledge this and continue to try to police them.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 01:41 AM
Yeah what I'm saying, by combining appealing fundamentalist religious iconography and complex militant-political goals they can have a lot of persuasion and influence in an areas that are both underprivileged or that have suffered any collateral damage from the United States (http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/countries/united-states-quiz/) and are left with a void of understanding which radical pseudo-islamic belief systems fit right into.

Horseshit.

The purpose of terrorism is to terrorise, the purpose of murderers is to kill, without compunction, without conscience, and without a shred of humanity.

What you've posted above is neoliberal gobbledeygook designed to make THEM the "victims"..like so many of your ilk, it is always someone else's fault, blame the US, blame America, all the time every single day.

Islam is simple: convert or die..they need no excuse, they kill because they can and for no other reason.

FOAD.

Wei Wu Wei
09-19-2010, 01:52 AM
Simpleton.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 01:59 AM
Simpleton.

If all you have said above is correct, explain Kuta. Jakarta. Munich. Leon Klinghoffer.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 02:08 AM
The next day, after being refused permission by the Syrian government to dock at Tartus, the hijackers singled out Klinghoffer, a Jew, for execution, shooting him in the forehead and chest as he sat in his wheelchair. They then forced the ship's barber and a waiter to throw his body and wheelchair overboard. Marilyn Klinghoffer, who did not witness the shooting, was told by the hijackers that he had been moved to the infirmary. She only learned the truth after the hijackers left the ship at Port Said.Arab Foreign Secretary Farouq Qaddumi said that perhaps the terminally ill Marilyn Klinghoffer had killed her husband for insurance money;[2] however, the ALO later accepted responsibility, apologized, and reached a financial settlement with the Klinghoffer family.[3]Muslim murdering SCUM.

I call them the ALO because there is no fucking place called Palestine, and quite frankly, the US or Israel would have been well within their rights to turn that fucking Gaza strip into a parking lot.

Pity they didnt.

They started this war and we will finish it...and them.

NJCardFan
09-19-2010, 02:10 AM
Yeah what I'm saying, by combining appealing fundamentalist religious iconography and complex militant-political goals they can have a lot of persuasion and influence in an areas that are both underprivileged or that have suffered any collateral damage from the United States and are left with a void of understanding which radical pseudo-islamic belief systems fit right into.

Oh how wrong you are. I have yet to see an Islamic terror attack that had anything economic tied to it. Ever. It's either political or religion based. Kill the infidels the Koran says. The 9/11 attacks were not about economics. It was a tactical move designed to cripple the economy, yes as one of their main targets was a financial face(not the main one for a famous one). They thought by destroying the Twin Towers, they would destroy our economy. They slowed it down but they failed in their objective but this was more tactical than economic. Theoretically, there is no terror attack save for hacking the Federal Reserve and siphoning it dry that will permanently kill our economy, even though Obama and his cast of idiots are trying real hard. But never once have I heard a terror group get all pissy because we're not sharing our wealth. Hell, if that's their problem, then they're barking up the wrong tree considering that Saudi Arabia and the UAE could buy this country 3 times over. Shit, they have fucking air conditioned sand in Dubai. AIR CONDITIONED SAND! If they had a legit economic beef they need to look no further than their own back yard. No, their motivations are both ideological or political.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 02:12 AM
. But never once have I heard a terror group get all pissy because we're not sharing our wealth

But we've heard Wei go fap fap fap at the demented hope of wealth redistribution in his direction.

NJCardFan
09-19-2010, 02:19 AM
But we've heard Wei go fap fap fap at the demented hope of wealth redistribution in his direction.

That's because wee wee is an idiot. Think about it though. Terror groups would be better served going after their own kind for money than us because those places I've mentioned have more money than we do.

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 02:26 AM
That's because wee wee is an idiot. Think about it though. Terror groups would be better served going after their own kind for money than us because those places I've mentioned have more money than we do.

Not to mention the fact that most, if not all, terrorists are well educated and come from lots of money. So this "underprivileged" bullshit is yet another liberal lie. Typical liberal, sides with America's enemies.:rolleyes:

Zathras
09-19-2010, 03:13 AM
Why do you people hate me?
You're worse to me than you are to Wee Wee.

http://members.rennlist.com/sharkskin/Smiley_Misc-Wahmbulance.jpg

nightflight
09-19-2010, 03:47 AM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.

Why don't they go after the leaders of their own countries?

Sonnabend
09-19-2010, 04:35 AM
Why don't they go after the leaders of their own countries?

Because their targets shoot back. :rolleyes:

BadCat
09-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Wow two guys (CITM and WeeWee) who should be buttfucking each other are having an argument.

You two America hating PoS's should kiss and make up.

hampshirebrit
09-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Fine fuck it I'll leave.
You're going to keep hounding me in EVERY thread till I do. So fuck it, you win.

I never named the motherfucker here, so you don't know who he is. He's a nameless fucking face, so what is your BIG FUCKING DEAL about it? GET THE FUCKING FUCK OVER IT!

CITM, you are under NO OBLIGATION to respond to this question.

In fact, disclosure of personal identifying information of this type relating to anyone, serving / former serving military or not, CUer or not, is prohibited here.

Sonnabend, knock this shit off. :mad:

m00
09-19-2010, 12:58 PM
I think Islam is in a holy war with us.

m00
09-19-2010, 01:08 PM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.

I agreed with your post until I read the part which I have marked in bold. I think it is representative of Islam, in the sense that the Islamic leaders (at least the ones visible to me as a Westerner) preach a very specific brand of politicized religion, aimed at mobilizing the foot soldiers. Rarely do Islamic leaders speak to the West; even when speaking to the West they actually speak to their flock - to ready them for the coming conflicts. It seems as if Westerners are not worthy to discuss matters with, the only value of cross-faith discussions is to "demonstrate" to the Islamic faithful that the infidels are given a chance to repent.

If it is normal for Islamic leaders to be pushing this martyrdom ideology to their soldiers, in order to fulfill their more subtle purposes, then I would argue that it is representative of the religion as a whole. An Islam of educated peace and learning might have existed once, but it does no longer.

Odysseus
09-19-2010, 02:31 PM
Because people living in shitty condition, under oppressive rule, and lacking decent education tend to gravitate towards extremist fundamentalist ideologies that are often perverted version of more legitimate belief systems. They cling to these beliefs because it's the only way that their world makes sense, a world with extreme amount of suffering, conflict, and horrors that most Americans never see and almost none actually live. Unfortunately, the people who recruit insurgents combine religious belief, because this belief has the power to overcome the natural fear of death, with political goals of "anti-imperialism" and anti-zionism. Political leaders use this religion-fueled propaganda to fight the Evil American Empire.
The London Tube bombers were middle class kids who had been raised in Britain, and included college students. The 9/11 hijackers were college students or graduates who had lived in Europe or the US prior to their recruitment (Mohammed Atta had a degree in urban planning). the Heathrow bombers were Medical Doctors. The Underwear bomber was a student at the elite London School of Economics and the son of a highly paid Nigerian government minister. MAJ Nidal Hasan was a psychiatrist and US Army officer drawing O4 pay in Killeen, TX, which put him at about twice the local median salary.
Care to try again?

The people who blow themselves up are just cannon fodder, used as a tactic in a larger plan that has different ideas as himself. He's expendable and is simple told a fairy tale about blowing himself and getting virgins in heaven.
Or, they are forced into it. A woman in Iraq recruited other women by setting them up to be raped, and then convincing them that the only way to expiate the shame was through martyrdom. Al Qaeda often used kids or people with diminished capacity to carry bombs, and we often found drivers who had been handcuffed to the steering wheels of their cars, which had been loaded with explosives. That's not to say that there aren't willing suicide bombers, but there are not as many as you think.

The ones in charge see things in a far more complex way, an educated way even, but still very radical. People here talk about 'black liberation theology' as if it's something radical and revolutionary (it's exaggerated), loaded with political agendas, but they still call themselves 'Christians'. Now think about a super extreme somewhat comparable version of that, an anti-imperialistic liberation theology that's strongly infused with political/military action, but within Islam. That doesn't mean it's representative of Islam or even a valid interpretation of Islam at all. This is just a political agenda for the masterminds behind the attacks, which also serves to facilitate a dumbed down martyrdom ideology for new soldiers.
Black Liberation Theology is radical. It is Marxism dressed up in a pseudo-Christian doctrine that includes virulet hatred of whites, Jews and western civilization. Jeremiah Wright's "God Damn America" speech is an almost perfect encapsulation of the anti-Americanism in the theology.

The people that the United States are fighting are political fighters, aiming at bringing down what they see as basically the empire from star wars.
You could not be more wrong. Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the mullahs of Iran and a host of other jihadis are animated by Islamic doctrine, not politics. They see Islam as the only means of salvation (literally) in a corrupt world and act on its directions to battle the unbelievers wherever they find them. To the extent that they see us as an evil empire, it is to the extent that we reject Islam. Every document, speech, doctrinal publication, including captured internal ones,that these people produce make it clear that they are in it for Islam. Their politics are derived from the political doctrines of Sharia, which is Islamic law. The only issue that this thread addresses is how much of the Islamic world supports them in their goals? If it's a tiny minority, then we are at war with a splinter group of Islamist fanatics. If it's a massive majority, then we're at war with Islam. It's that simple.

hampshirebrit
09-19-2010, 06:54 PM
the Heathrow bombers were Medical Doctors.

Glasgow, not Heathrow. They targeted a nightclub in Central London, then when that failed, tried their luck at Glasgow Airport, one of them subsequently dying from burn injuries sustained in the attempt.

Just a minor fact-check. I agree with everything else in your post.

Odysseus
09-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Glasgow, not Heathrow. They targeted a nightclub in Central London, then when that failed, tried their luck at Glasgow Airport, one of them subsequently dying from burn injuries sustained in the attempt.

Just a minor fact-check. I agree with everything else in your post.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

BTW, I'm reminded of Trotsky's quote to a woman who said that she wasn't interested in war. "Unfortunately, madam, war is interested in you." We may not be in a war with Islam, but major elements of Islam are certainly at war with us. And unlike us, they have no problem burning our symbols.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxan9ztrdbw&feature=player_embedded

Nubs
09-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Just a minor clarification on the status of "war". If one side declares war on the other side, a state of war exists between both sides. It is not as if the side upon which war is declared has to agree for a state of war to exist.

The US never declared war on Germany, Germany declared war on the US. Therefore, a state of war existed between the US and Germany.

So as Osama B. Laden declared war on the U.S. and the West, there exists a state of war between the US and Osama B. Laden and his supporters. The degree to which the entirety of Islam is included in this state of war, is only inclusive of those that support Osama B. Laden. If there are state entities that willfully aid and support Osama B. Laden, they can be included in state of war. If individuals are supporting the efforts of Osama B. Laden, they too can be targeted as legitimate participants in the state of war.

Rockntractor
09-19-2010, 07:23 PM
Just a minor clarification on the status of "war". If one side declares war on the other side, a state of war exists between both sides. It is not as if the side upon which war is declared has to agree for a state of war to exist.

The US never declared war on Germany, Germany declared war on the US. Therefore, a state of war existed between the US and Germany.
We acknowledged we were at war then and identified our enemy accurately, we have failed to do that, we called this a war on a tactic and now it is called a contingency. What kind of bullshit is that?

Nubs
09-19-2010, 07:41 PM
We acknowledged we were at war then and identified our enemy accurately, we have failed to do that, we called this a war on a tactic and now it is called a contingency. What kind of bullshit is that?

To get this country to prosecute this war with the furvor and intensity by which WWII was conducted, it will take the detonation of an atomic warhead in a large populous US city and at least 1 million dead.

Odysseus
09-19-2010, 08:04 PM
To get this country to prosecute this war with the furvor and intensity by which WWII was conducted, it will take the detonation of an atomic warhead in a large populous US city and at least 1 million dead.

Unfortunately, even then, a lot of our "leaders" will seek to appease the aggressors. They genuinely believe that America is the problem.

Nubs
09-19-2010, 08:07 PM
I believe it will take an event of such magnitude that even the most die hard, Che loving, hippie will finally say to themselves that it is wrong for them to even try to justify.

Odysseus
09-19-2010, 08:26 PM
I believe it will take an event of such magnitude that even the most die hard, Che loving, hippie will finally say to themselves that it is wrong for them to even try to justify.

Die-hard, Che-loving hippies have demonstrated an astonishing degree of cluelessness.

Just after the first plane hit the WTC, I got a frantic call from a buddy of mine, a lawyer in Los Angeles, telling me to turn on the TV (it was around 0600 on the west coast). His wife, an academic and actress, was freaking out and just as I finished telling them about the bomber that hit the Empire State Building during WWII and how there was no reason to panic, the second plane hit and I told them that it was no accident, but that there was still no reason to panic. They were frantic and couldn't believe that it was happening and wanted desperately to know that everything was going to be okay and that we would find whoever was responsible and get back at them. I reassured them, and then went back to the TV and watched the rest of the day's events.

By 2003, they had reverted to the leftist moonbats that they had been before 9/11 (actually, it didn't even take that long), and were adamantly opposed to Bush. At her birthday party that year, as the primaries were beginning, one of their friends raised his glass and toasted "Bush's last year in office." I raised mine and said, "Okay, to 2008." Of course, she was outraged that politics had reared its ugly head at her party, and promptly chewed out... me. Apparently, hoping that Bush would be ousted wasn't a political stance, but hoping that he wouldn't be was. When I reminded her that two years earlier, she was chomping at the bit to go after the people who took out the towers, she said nothing, but I found myself getting far fewer invites to their house.

It was then that I realized that most leftist politics is about rebellion against parental authority. When something hits the fan, they immediately call the closest thing to daddy who can tell them that everything will be fine, but once the crisis is over, they revert to adolescent resentment. Their need to prove, to themselves and to their parents, that they are grown ups and don't need anybody's guidance, trumps their rational desire for self-preservation. So, no, I think that even in the radioactive rubble of an American city, there will be leftists who will still be eager to prove their moral superiority to their neighbors by embracing the enemies of their nation.

m00
09-19-2010, 09:29 PM
It was then that I realized that most leftist politics is about rebellion against parental authority. When something hits the fan, they immediately call the closest thing to daddy who can tell them that everything will be fine, but once the crisis is over, they revert to adolescent resentment. Their need to prove, to themselves and to their parents, that they are grown ups and don't need anybody's guidance, trumps their rational desire for self-preservation. So, no, I think that even in the radioactive rubble of an American city, there will be leftists who will still be eager to prove their moral superiority to their neighbors by embracing the enemies of their nation.

Countries with mandatory military service tend to have much more level headed liberals (at least, when it comes to national security). Just my observation.

Odysseus
09-20-2010, 09:54 AM
Countries with mandatory military service tend to have much more level headed liberals (at least, when it comes to national security). Just my observation.

Some do, some don't. France, the Netherlands, Belgium and Spain had it until a few years ago, Germany, Denmark and, I believe, Italy, still have national conscription, and their leftists are flakier than a Head & Shoulders commercial. Britain, which doesn't have conscription, is probably the least pacifist of the EU-nuchs, and Australia and the US stopped their drafts in 1972. The only democracies that I can think of that have conscription and maintain a robust political left that doesn't run around trying to undermine their survival are Switzerland and Israel, and even there, the Israeli left has some seriously nutty practitioners of moonbattery with intent.

Wei Wu Wei
09-20-2010, 01:31 PM
Why don't they go after the leaders of their own countries?

Because they identify the great forces of oppression as Western Imperialism, including Israel support.

Wei Wu Wei
09-20-2010, 01:36 PM
The London Tube bombers were middle class kids who had been raised in Britain, and included college students. The 9/11 hijackers were college students or graduates who had lived in Europe or the US prior to their recruitment (Mohammed Atta had a degree in urban planning). the Heathrow bombers were Medical Doctors. The Underwear bomber was a student at the elite London School of Economics and the son of a highly paid Nigerian government minister. MAJ Nidal Hasan was a psychiatrist and US Army officer drawing O4 pay in Killeen, TX, which put him at about twice the local median salary.
Care to try again?

High-profile attackers do tend to be better educated, yes you're right about that. What I attempted to refer to was your standard bomb-a-day suicide fighter who blows up half-empty markets in a village in Pakistan.

Like I said, resistance to the west comes from the dirt poor up into the upper middle class and sometimes people with wealth (like Osama and his ilk).




Or, they are forced into it. A woman in Iraq recruited other women by setting them up to be raped, and then convincing them that the only way to expiate the shame was through martyrdom. Al Qaeda often used kids or people with diminished capacity to carry bombs, and we often found drivers who had been handcuffed to the steering wheels of their cars, which had been loaded with explosives. That's not to say that there aren't willing suicide bombers, but there are not as many as you think.

Yeah I agree. people are often kidnapped, lied to, drugged and strapped with bombs, or sometimes parents will sell their children off, being told they will be taken care of and providing the family with sustenance.




Black Liberation Theology is radical. It is Marxism dressed up in a pseudo-Christian doctrine that includes virulet hatred of whites, Jews and western civilization. Jeremiah Wright's "God Damn America" speech is an almost perfect encapsulation of the anti-Americanism in the theology.

You know some might argue that marxism and christianity aren't opposed at all.



You could not be more wrong. Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the mullahs of Iran and a host of other jihadis are animated by Islamic doctrine, not politics. They see Islam as the only means of salvation (literally) in a corrupt world and act on its directions to battle the unbelievers wherever they find them. To the extent that they see us as an evil empire, it is to the extent that we reject Islam. Every document, speech, doctrinal publication, including captured internal ones,that these people produce make it clear that they are in it for Islam. Their politics are derived from the political doctrines of Sharia, which is Islamic law. The only issue that this thread addresses is how much of the Islamic world supports them in their goals? If it's a tiny minority, then we are at war with a splinter group of Islamist fanatics. If it's a massive majority, then we're at war with Islam. It's that simple.

I think the fusion of the religious ideology with the political goals is purposeful and makes for the best loyal recruits. We see the same thing in America (in a VERY SMALL) scale when politicians try to play on religious themes and ideas for votes.

Sonnabend
09-20-2010, 07:43 PM
Because they identify the great forces of oppression as Western Imperialism, including Israel support.

"imperialism"

"running dog"

"fascist imperialist"

"imperialist fascist"

"military - industrial complex"

Where have I heard this bullshit before.....:rolleyes::rolleyes: