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Odysseus
09-19-2010, 08:38 PM
Graduation ceremony at a Hamas kindergarten in Gaza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw&feature=related

Check out the subtitles for the chant at 3:43 and ask yourself, at that age, what you wanted to be when you grew up, and what would have happened if you'd told a teacher that you wanted to die for God?

namvet
09-20-2010, 10:00 AM
human shields as well

Odysseus
09-20-2010, 10:36 AM
human shields as well

Human shields are, by their very definition, non-combatants. Those kids are being trained as combatants and, given their age, that alone is a violation of a whole bunch of laws of warfare. Child Soldiers are a symbol of a depraved regime.

AmPat
09-20-2010, 10:19 PM
Human shields are, by their very definition, non-combatants. Those kids are being trained as combatants and, given their age, that alone is a violation of a whole bunch of laws of warfare. Child Soldiers are a symbol of a depraved regime.

When the Imams aren't screwing the kindergardners they make soldiers of them.:mad:

m00
09-21-2010, 12:03 AM
When the Imams aren't screwing the kindergardners they make soldiers of them.:mad:

In cultures of polygamy (where the elders get the first pick), you need constant wars to thin out the young men otherwise they grow restless.

Bailey
09-21-2010, 08:48 AM
I am sure if gator had any young children he would send them to that school. (yes I went there) :p:D


It sure looks like the religon of peace to me. :rolleyes:

Odysseus
09-21-2010, 09:56 AM
In cultures of polygamy (where the elders get the first pick), you need constant wars to thin out the young men otherwise they grow restless.
I've actually seen a couple of papers on the link between polygamy and jihad. We're also going to see some seriously destabilized behavior from China, which has been drowning female babies for so long that they now have a highly uneven male/female ratio.

I am sure if gator had any young children he would send them to that school. (yes I went there) :p:D
It sure looks like the religon of peace to me. :rolleyes:
I'm sure that Gator is down with the curriculum.

Wei Wu Wei
09-21-2010, 11:18 AM
They sure do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06655i1Z-p0


That documentary shows what it's like growing up in Palestine and you can easily see what makes these kids filled with hatred and ready to pick up a gun and die when they are 12 years old

Odysseus
09-21-2010, 11:48 AM
They sure do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06655i1Z-p0


That documentary shows what it's like growing up in Palestine and you can easily see what makes these kids filled with hatred and ready to pick up a gun and die when they are 12 years old

I'd have thought that having your teachers fill you with hatred from the moment you step into a classroom would be what makes them ready to die when they are 12. But no, being fed, clothed and housed by the Israelis while you lob rockets at them appears to breed horrific discontents in the death cult that is Gaza.

Odysseus
09-21-2010, 12:19 PM
BTW, Death in Gaza has been thoroughly debunked. It's clumsy propaganda. A few points, though:

At no point in the film is the Israeli side shown. The context, a state of siege in which Arab states refuse any peace with Israel and use Palestinians as pawns, is ignored.

Even without intending to do it, the directors show the deliberate incitements in the Palestinianschools, culture of martyrdom and hatred of Jews that makes the region what it is. There rallies that call for shahids and glorify death would be horrific if shown in any other place (Imagine a German classroom in 1939 with a similar theme). But the film clearly shows a dysfunctional Palestinian culture based on hatred and a refusal to take responsibility.

The two Palestinian Aboys shown packing homemade grenades with explosives, and the one boy who provides a lookout for the terrorists are victims, but not of the Israelis. The use of children is as combatants or to support combatants is a war crime under international law.

Saira Shah states that Israeli gunfire was responsible for the death of film-maker James Miller. That's an impressive ballistic analysis, what with the shooting coming from all sides, in the dark. It wouldn't be the first time that Paleistinians blamed Israelis for a death that they, themselves, caused. In fact, the standard narrative in the Middle East is for Arabs to create a horrific situation and then blame everyone but themselves for it.

Wei Wu Wei
09-21-2010, 01:02 PM
BTW, Death in Gaza has been thoroughly debunked. It's clumsy propaganda. A few points, though:

At no point in the film is the Israeli side shown. The context, a state of siege in which Arab states refuse any peace with Israel and use Palestinians as pawns, is ignored.

I doubt you actually watched the documentary. Multiple times they state the intention was to film both sides of the conflict but the filmmaker was shot and killed by the IDF before the film was finished. It's hardly a move of propaganda that he didn't film in Israel, he was dead.


Even without intending to do it, the directors show the deliberate incitements in the Palestinianschools, culture of martyrdom and hatred of Jews that makes the region what it is. There rallies that call for shahids and glorify death would be horrific if shown in any other place (Imagine a German classroom in 1939 with a similar theme). But the film clearly shows a dysfunctional Palestinian culture based on hatred and a refusal to take responsibility.

Yes, the film does show children being taught at a very early age that the source of all their hardships is "the evil jew" and pro-martyrdom propaganda is everywhere. The film doesn't try to hide this, this is the reality there.


The two Palestinian Aboys shown packing homemade grenades with explosives, and the one boy who provides a lookout for the terrorists are victims, but not of the Israelis. The use of children is as combatants or to support combatants is a war crime under international law.

You're trying too hard to point out blame and identify a Good Guy and Bad Guy. It's not that simple.




Saira Shah states that Israeli gunfire was responsible for the death of film-maker James Miller. That's an impressive ballistic analysis, what with the shooting coming from all sides, in the dark. It wouldn't be the first time that Paleistinians blamed Israelis for a death that they, themselves, caused. In fact, the standard narrative in the Middle East is for Arabs to create a horrific situation and then blame everyone but themselves for it.

lol okay it's all fake.

Apache
09-21-2010, 04:47 PM
Multiple times they state the intention was to film both sides of the conflict but the filmmaker was shot and killed by the IDF before the film was finished. It's hardly a move of propaganda that he didn't film in Israel, he was dead.

So the point stands, it's propaganda. The film-maker was killed and instead of following his intentions, they went with the one-sided story...

Jfor
09-21-2010, 04:51 PM
I doubt you actually watched the documentary. Multiple times they state the intention was to film both sides of the conflict but the filmmaker was shot and killed by the IDF before the film was finished. It's hardly a move of propaganda that he didn't film in Israel, he was dead.



Yes, the film does show children being taught at a very early age that the source of all their hardships is "the evil jew" and pro-martyrdom propaganda is everywhere. The film doesn't try to hide this, this is the reality there.



You're trying too hard to point out blame and identify a Good Guy and Bad Guy. It's not that simple.





lol okay it's all fake.

Seems as if you have posted this crap before.

Odysseus
09-21-2010, 07:39 PM
I doubt you actually watched the documentary. Multiple times they state the intention was to film both sides of the conflict but the filmmaker was shot and killed by the IDF before the film was finished. It's hardly a move of propaganda that he didn't film in Israel, he was dead.
Can you provide any proof beyond the hysterical catterwauling of the other filmmaker that he was killed by the IDF and not the Palestinians?

Yes, the film does show children being taught at a very early age that the source of all their hardships is "the evil jew" and pro-martyrdom propaganda is everywhere. The film doesn't try to hide this, this is the reality there.
Yes, it is. And yet, the "evil Jew" feeds, clothes and houses these people, provides them with medical services, electricity, running water and all of the other creature comforts that they take for granted.

You're trying too hard to point out blame and identify a Good Guy and Bad Guy. It's not that simple.
In my world, teaching children to murder is something done by bad guys. Teaching children to hate is something done by bad guys. Puttng children in harm's way for cheap propaganda is something done by bad guys. Trying to pretend that there is somehow anything that mitigates these things is something done by apologists for bad guys. It is that simple, if you haven't had your conscience numbed by moral relativism.

lol okay it's all fake.
Okay, you want to believe that Israelis kill children and reporters indiscriminately, while the terrorists who put children in the line of fire are good guys, that's your mental malfunction. If you want to ignore the proof that Palestinians have faked atrocities or, worse, committed them and blamed their enemies, that's your perogative. It's a free country. And let's hope that you don't get enough power to change that.

Meanwhile, here are a few examples of "dead" Palestinians who, while en route to their funerals, suddenly got better. Nothing fake there....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRz5WnHemkw&feature=related

namvet
09-21-2010, 08:26 PM
They sure do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06655i1Z-p0


That documentary shows what it's like growing up in Palestine and you can easily see what makes these kids filled with hatred and ready to pick up a gun and die when they are 12 years old


t_B1H-1opys

noonwitch
09-22-2010, 08:29 AM
Graduation ceremony at a Hamas kindergarten in Gaza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw&feature=related

Check out the subtitles for the chant at 3:43 and ask yourself, at that age, what you wanted to be when you grew up, and what would have happened if you'd told a teacher that you wanted to die for God?



I grew up in the world of the calvinists. It would all depend on the teacher in question. Some would have been encouraging of that goal, in the sense that a missionary risks his or her life at times, or the sacrifices made by christians and others fighting Nazi Germany. Or the way Jesus did.

Jfor
09-22-2010, 09:38 AM
I grew up in the world of the calvinists. It would all depend on the teacher in question. Some would have been encouraging of that goal, in the sense that a missionary risks his or her life at times, or the sacrifices made by christians and others fighting Nazi Germany. Or the way Jesus did.

Not even close to the same thing.

noonwitch
09-22-2010, 11:24 AM
Not even close to the same thing.


But it is to them-the suicidal terrorists do believe that they are sacrificing themselves for their God. To them, it is an honor to die for Allah. Christians feel the same way about dying for Jesus name. The only difference is that the terrorist takes out a bunch of innocent people with him.

Odysseus
09-22-2010, 11:40 AM
But it is to them-the suicidal terrorists do believe that they are sacrificing themselves for their God. To them, it is an honor to die for Allah. Christians feel the same way about dying for Jesus name. The only difference is that the terrorist takes out a bunch of innocent people with him.

That is not exactly a trivial difference.

That's like saying that the Buddhist monk who immolates himself as a protest differs from the Muslims who took down the WTC in that the Buddhist only sets himself on fire, while Mohammed Atta and his crew cremated 3,000 people along with themselves. Other than that, it's all the same.

namvet
09-22-2010, 11:45 AM
But it is to them-the suicidal terrorists do believe that they are sacrificing themselves for their God. To them, it is an honor to die for Allah. Christians feel the same way about dying for Jesus name. The only difference is that the terrorist takes out a bunch of innocent people with him.

the suicidal terrorists as you call them were recruited and selected because they were weak willed and weak minded. they had nothing to lose by dying. no hope no future. but this changed as many of them were no longer willing to die. instead chosing to take they're families and run for they're lives.
so the terrorists went after the young, women, old people to do they're dirty work

noonwitch
09-22-2010, 12:51 PM
That is not exactly a trivial difference.

That's like saying that the Buddhist monk who immolates himself as a protest differs from the Muslims who took down the WTC in that the Buddhist only sets himself on fire, while Mohammed Atta and his crew cremated 3,000 people along with themselves. Other than that, it's all the same.



I'm not making the comments on a moral judgement level, because obviously, the offense that takes out a bunch of innocent people is morally worse than a strictly suicidal act. Some suicidal acts are even heroic-sacificing one's own life or safety for that of another person. I was looking at it from more of a psychological profile kind of way, and the way people in that religion perceive the situation. The people committing terroristic acts, like suicide bombers or whatever, think that they are doing God's work. It's part of their MO.



My point was that if I had told a very christian teacher that I was willing to die for Jesus Christ, that teacher may consider that to be evidence of a kid with a strong faith, not a reason for a psychological evaluation. Children's innocent faith is what people like radical islamic terrorist recuriters prey upon when they recruit their "soldiers" at such a young age.

Odysseus
09-22-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm not making the comments on a moral judgement level, because obviously, the offense that takes out a bunch of innocent people is morally worse than a strictly suicidal act. Some suicidal acts are even heroic-sacificing one's own life or safety for that of another person. I was looking at it from more of a psychological profile kind of way, and the way people in that religion perceive the situation. The people committing terroristic acts, like suicide bombers or whatever, think that they are doing God's work. It's part of their MO.

My point was that if I had told a very christian teacher that I was willing to die for Jesus Christ, that teacher may consider that to be evidence of a kid with a strong faith, not a reason for a psychological evaluation. Children's innocent faith is what people like radical islamic terrorist recuriters prey upon when they recruit their "soldiers" at such a young age.

Except that a very Christian teacher would see a suicide as a sin, a rejection and renunciation of God's greatest gift. Such an attitude would actually be an abrogation of faith in God's love and mercy. Surprsingly, one of the best statements of the Christian position on suicide came from the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, who is usually so open-minded that he has a hard time believing the tenets of his own faith, but who made a definite pronouncement, stating

"
Do I have a right to die? Religious believers answer for themselves that they do not. For a believer to say: 'The time could come when I find myself in a situation that has no meaning, and I reserve the right to end my life in such a situation,' would be to say that there is some aspect of human life where God cannot break through. It would be to say that when I as an individual can no longer give meaning to my life, it has no value, and human dignity is best served by ending it."

This, in turn, brings up an significant difference between Islam and the Judeo-Christian beliefs on the sanctity of life. In Judaism and Christianity, all human lives are sacred. In Islam, not only is the life of the infidel of negligible value, but the lives of the faithful are simply ammunition for Allah.

You know, for an agnostic, I write a pretty good religious treatise, if I do say so myself. :D

NJCardFan
09-22-2010, 10:15 PM
Saira Shah states that Israeli gunfire was responsible for the death of film-maker James Miller. That's an impressive ballistic analysis, what with the shooting coming from all sides, in the dark. It wouldn't be the first time that Paleistinians blamed Israelis for a death that they, themselves, caused. In fact, the standard narrative in the Middle East is for Arabs to create a horrific situation and then blame everyone but themselves for it.

This reminds me of the beginning of the 2nd Iraq War in 2003. CNN was showing a broadcast of Al Jazeera when they went into a hospital and saw a wounded little girl of about 5 or 6 in a bed and asked her what happened. She told them a rocket had hit her house. They asked her what kind of rocket. She answered, "an American rocket." Wow, that's pretty good. A 5 or 6 year old little girl can tell what kind of rocket hit her house. She'll definitely have a career as a sonar operator on a submarine.

As for Wee Wee, what do you think of when you see video of children at Klan meetings wearing little sheets? Hell, here is the opening to True Blood. Look at the :27 second mark and tell me what you see and how it makes you feel. Then tell me the difference between that and the Palestinians indoctrinating their children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxINMuOgAu8

Odysseus
09-23-2010, 10:45 AM
Look at the :27 second mark and tell me what you see and how it makes you feel. Then tell me the difference between that and the Palestinians indoctrinating their children:

The Klan kids are wearing clean sheets. :D

http://i54.tinypic.com/33blfg8.jpg

Zafod
09-23-2010, 03:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys&feature=player_embedded#!

noonwitch
09-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Except that a very Christian teacher would see a suicide as a sin, a rejection and renunciation of God's greatest gift. Such an attitude would actually be an abrogation of faith in God's love and mercy. Surprsingly, one of the best statements of the Christian position on suicide came from the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, who is usually so open-minded that he has a hard time believing the tenets of his own faith, but who made a definite pronouncement, stating

"

This, in turn, brings up an significant difference between Islam and the Judeo-Christian beliefs on the sanctity of life. In Judaism and Christianity, all human lives are sacred. In Islam, not only is the life of the infidel of negligible value, but the lives of the faithful are simply ammunition for Allah.

You know, for an agnostic, I write a pretty good religious treatise, if I do say so myself. :D


Being willing to die for one's God or to protect innocent people is not suicidal like a suicidal bombing, but those who commit the latter act think that they are doing the former. They think their death will be a part of bringing justice.

I'm not defending suicide bombers, here. But if we are going to fight those who commit these types of attacks, we have to understand where they are coming from and how they appeal to potential recruits. The WOT is not only about military strategies, it's also about preventing recruitment of potential terrorists.