PDA

View Full Version : Private Fire Crews In Colorado.



Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 10:36 AM
Fire crews for hire: Added protection during Fourmile blaze came at a price

Wildfire was first in Colo. fought partly by insurance company firefighters

By John Aguilar Camera Staff Writer
Posted: 09/20/2010 09:57:07 PM MDT

Among the more than 1,000 firefighters and 100 engines that responded to the Fourmile Fire, which broke out Sept. 6 in the foothills west of Boulder, was a contingent of 13 fully certified wildland firefighters whose mission it was to save a select group of homes.

They drove five fully equipped engines loaded with fire retardant up Sunshine Canyon Drive and Sugarloaf Road, easily passing through heavily manned checkpoints and down smoke-shrouded roads, to their customers' homes.

The homeowners getting the extra protection weren't secretly paying off local fire departments or federal officials for the special treatment. Rather, they were customers of Chubb, an insurance company that focuses on writing policies for high-end customers with high-value properties.

The New Jersey-based company has been offering Chubb Wildfire Defense Services for the past three years to its policyholders in 14 western states, including Colorado. The primary goal of the service, which is part of a homeowner's hazard insurance policy, is to help customers create defensible space and reduce fire danger around their home.

But if a wildfire should ignite and come within three miles of the home or prompt an evacuation from the area, Chubb will dispatch trained firefighters in certified wildland engines to the fire zone to protect customers' houses.

The Fourmile Fire, which destroyed 169 homes and caused an estimated $217 million in damage, is the first Colorado wildfire in which firefighters hired by an insurance company worked alongside the traditional assortment of local, state and federal emergency personnel.

Carole Walker, executive director of Rocky Mountain Insurance Information Association, expects the trend to grow.

"As the wildfire threat has grown across the country, you're seeing these types of added protections crop up," she said. "It's another example of what insurance companies are doing to market themselves in a competitive marketplace."

'Not a guarantee'

In the case of the Fourmile Fire, Chubb's proactive measures were only partly successful. Three policyholders lost their homes while at least 10 customers' homes -- located directly in the burn zone -- remain intact.

Company spokesman Dave Hilgen said the fire was so fierce and wind-driven on the first day that nobody was able to get control of it initially.

"It's an additional service that helps protect homes," he said. "But it's not a guarantee."

He said homes belonging to Chubb customers in other wildfire-prone states, like California, have been saved in past fires by company-hired personnel.

This is fascinating. The Camera is a reliably slightly left-of-center paper (as is its readership). The comments are very interesting. While there are some who simply horrified by the "inequity", quite a few think this is a fine idea.

Read more: Fire crews for hire: Added protection during Fourmile blaze came at a price - Boulder Daily Camera http://www.dailycamera.com/fourmile-canyon-fire/ci_16129301#ixzz10Gjmiyv5
DailyCamera.com

Arroyo_Doble
09-22-2010, 10:39 AM
I was going to be glib about sandbags and flood insurance but actually, this seems like a good idea.

Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 10:45 AM
I was going to be glib about sandbags and flood insurance but actually, this seems like a good idea.

It does, doesn't it? We have some of the best wildfire crews in the country out here. Other states send their crews in to get trained here. They are very good but their objectives have pretty much nothing to do with saving houses.

I will bet that you can only buy this insurance if you agree to create and maintain a defensible space and retro-fit your home with various fire-resistant features. Both of those ideas are relentlessly pounded into mountain property owners but only about 5% comply because it destroys the ambiance. The ambiance also ensures that their house will burn flat.

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 12:33 PM
Privitizing a service leads to exceptional quality for a select priviledged few? Color me shocked.

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 12:35 PM
They should privatize ALL fire departments, businesses run more effeciently while Government projects always LOSE MONEY.

Sure maybe not everyone will be able to afford fire response, but if you have anything worth protecting from fire I'm sure you can afford it.

Bootstraps people! it's the American Way!

Arroyo_Doble
09-22-2010, 12:39 PM
Privitizing a service leads to exceptional quality for a select priviledged few? Color me shocked.

Explain the difference between this and company's private security apparatus.

Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 12:39 PM
They should privatize ALL fire departments, businesses run more effeciently while Government projects always LOSE MONEY.

Sure maybe not everyone will be able to afford fire response, but if you have anything worth protecting from fire I'm sure you can afford it.

Bootstraps people! it's the American Way!

Really? I'm a Libertarian and even I don't have any interest in that idea. How about we just let people decide how to spend their own money beyond the taxes they pay for fire, police, emergency services, etc.?

I don't know how it is where you live but plenty of people out here pay taxes for police and they pay an alarm service. The one doesn't diminish the quality of service of the other.

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Why don't we just get rid of the taxes and let people keep their own money and pay for their own police and fire service when they need it? Let the people choose how to handle their own finances and safety, you don't think Americans are stupid do you?

Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 12:58 PM
Why don't we just get rid of the taxes and let people keep their own money and pay for their own police and fire service when they need it? Let the people choose how to handle their own finances and safety, you don't think Americans are stupid do you?

We did that already and we decided to switch to a municipal system. Don't you read anything? :confused:

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 01:04 PM
I learned all about privatized police from Robocop

Arroyo_Doble
09-22-2010, 01:07 PM
I learned all about privatized police from Robocop

Whatever you do, don't watch Terminator.

obx
09-22-2010, 01:34 PM
Check out "Tokyo Gore Police".
________
Sl70 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_SL70)

Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
I learned all about privatized police from Robocop

Well, I won't bad-mouth contemporary education. :rolleyes:

Paying for supplemental fire services in no way diminishes or impedes your standard fire protection service. Nobody is getting "ripped off", nobody is being marginalized, and nobody is being shoved to the back of the line.

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 02:24 PM
Check out "Tokyo Gore Police".

heh. seen it. I'm a bit of an oddball movie buff so was definitely on my netflix .

obx
09-22-2010, 04:43 PM
I watched it last night. Pretty funny. They have had some pretty good Asian flicks on. Oldboy, Ichi the Killer, Lady Vengeance, Seven Samurai...
________
Fetish tubes (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/18/fetish/videos/1)

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 05:44 PM
yes yessss

ichi was p intense. the hammer scene in Oldboy is perhaps my all time favorite movie fight.

Wei Wu Wei
09-22-2010, 05:45 PM
For those of you who haven't seen the total badassery that is Oldboy (not to mention an incredibly tragically good story):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wha0brbb_44


^ The hallway is Conservative Underground every day, I'm the main guy, the hammer is my keyboard, and the rest of the people are all the pissed off rednecks on this site.

Sonnabend
09-22-2010, 07:25 PM
Privitizing a service leads to exceptional quality for a select priviledged few? Color me shocked.

The green eyed monster LIVES at your place, doesnt he?

malloc
09-22-2010, 07:29 PM
Privitizing a service leads to exceptional quality for a select priviledged few? Color me shocked.

I don't think you understood what you read. Every person got the basic fire protection they paid for through their tax dollars. A few people took the opportunity cost to pay into an extra private fund for extra protection. It's the equivalent of hiring a private security guard at your house when you already have government provided police protection.

You can't be this much of a shill for communism can you? Do you really think the government should have taken what these few individuals paid into their private fire insurance, and put it into the municipal fire fund to give a little better protection for everybody on the backs of these few? Is that what you really think is just and fair?


On a side note, I don't live in a city, so emergency services work very strange in my area. The police are pretty much paid by county taxes and will respond for free, unless they are responding to a house alarm and find it's a false alarm, then you pay a fine, unless you've "registered" your alarm. If you've "registered" your alarm, you pay a fee, but then get unlimited false alarms or something. EMS and fire are different. If you buy into the EMS/Fire co-op, you pay a yearly fee, but aren't billed if they respond. If you don't buy in, and they respond, you get a pretty hefty bill.

Needless to say my alarm is "registered", and I buy into the EMS/Fire co-op.

Gingersnap
09-22-2010, 08:25 PM
The fallacy here is believing that the privatized service somehow "replaces" the existing service but with a much higher level of quality. A level of quality that should be available to all. It doesn't.

This private service does not respond when your smoke alarm goes off. You will be SOL if your deep fried turkey experiment goes awry. This insurance benefit kicks into gear only when your home is endangered by an actual wildfire.

When wildfires happen out here, there is no real attempt to save structures. People and livestock are evacuated and fire crews concentrate on containing the fire margins, building fire breaks, and setting suppressive fires ahead of the fire line to diminish the fuel load. The county is not interested in using fire fighters to protect your loafing shed.

This crew did attempt to save the structures which was all they were tasked to do. They saved 70% of "their" structures which is a big savings to the insurers and the owners.

This was not a city fire.

NJCardFan
09-22-2010, 08:42 PM
Wee Wee. Every time this idiot types something, proves more and more what kind of pathetic jealous slug he really is. But I must ask, what makes this any different than, say, hiring a private detective? Or security company? There are thousands of security companies all across the country and they don't affect the police one iota.

cajunrevenge
09-22-2010, 08:52 PM
Darn rich people spending their money to protect their property and directly creating jobs. Those evil bastards!

Rockntractor
09-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Think of all the homeless people that get their arm hair singed and cardboard boxes burned and all they can afford to do is pee on them!:(

m00
09-22-2010, 10:37 PM
They're going about this all wrong. 4 years of Democratic Campaign contributions, and it will be illegal to NOT have fire insurance.

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 10:03 AM
Wee Wee. Every time this idiot types something, proves more and more what kind of pathetic jealous slug he really is. But I must ask, what makes this any different than, say, hiring a private detective? Or security company? There are thousands of security companies all across the country and they don't affect the police one iota.

You mean a system where people can choose between a higher-cost and higher-quality private option if they can afford it and a general-quality low-cost-or-tax-funded public option?

Hmm....

You know that sounds like a good idea...

Sonnabend
09-23-2010, 10:08 AM
You mean a system where people can choose between a higher-cost and higher-quality private option if they can afford it and a general-quality low-cost-or-tax-funded public option?

Hmm....

You know that sounds like a good idea...

It is. However, the fact is that they can purchase it as an OPTION , not an enforced requirement. If you missed the article (knowing you, you did) the private firefighters worked BESIDES the public units. They were an adjunct, not separate.

As you have never served with an emergency unit, you cannot ever understand that private or not they help each other regardless. Emergency personnel share a common bond.

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 10:11 AM
It is. However, the fact is that they can purchase it as an OPTION , not an enforced requirement. If you missed the article (knowing you, you did) the private firefighters worked BESIDES the public units. They were an adjunct, not separate.

As you have never served with an emergency unit, you cannot ever understand that private or not they help each other regardless. Emergency personnel share a common bond.

Oh I see. So if they don't want to, they can get standard subsidized public care but if they want some extra protection they can pay a little more for a private care catered to their needs?

Wow, I like it!

Sonnabend
09-23-2010, 10:20 AM
Oh I see. So if they don't want to, they can get standard subsidized public care but if they want some extra protection they can pay a little more for a private care catered to their needs?

Wow, I like it!

Hey, over there...a unicorn :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Good response buddy, you know what you did to yourself there lmao.

Sonnabend
09-23-2010, 10:28 AM
Good response buddy, you know what you did to yourself there lmao.

Yet another straw man, backed up again by your jealousy and continued wishes for the wealth of others. Get a job.

jediab
09-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Yet another straw man, backed up again by your jealousy and continued wishes for the wealth of others. Get a job.

Or his standard belief that if he can't have or afford it, noone should be have it.

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 10:44 AM
Or his standard belief that if he can't have or afford it, noone should be have it.

Reading Comprehension.


Oh I see. So if they don't want to, they can get standard subsidized public care but if they want some extra protection they can pay a little more for a private care catered to their needs?

Try sounding out each word, google the ones you don't know.

jediab
09-23-2010, 10:49 AM
Reading Comprehension.

Yes you really do fail at this.

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 10:54 AM
haha people here don't even read the posts. they just imagine this image of a "Liberal" that they hear about on the radio and picture it fornt of them and just smash their keyboards over and over

Constitutionally Speaking
09-23-2010, 05:00 PM
Why don't we just get rid of the taxes and let people keep their own money and pay for their own police and fire service when they need it? Let the people choose how to handle their own finances and safety, you don't think Americans are stupid do you?

Wei,

Conservatives don't want to get rid of all government - just the unconstitutional parts.

I don't know why liberals get that idea. Who planted that idea in your head? I just don't understand.

Wei Wu Wei
09-23-2010, 05:35 PM
Wei,

Conservatives don't want to get rid of all government - just the unconstitutional parts.

I don't know why liberals get that idea. Who planted that idea in your head? I just don't understand.

Let's take the most "radical" government intervention proposed by liberals: a single-payer government run health care syatem.

What exactly about that is unconstitutional, Constitutionally Speaking?

Constitutionally Speaking
09-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Let's take the most "radical" government intervention proposed by liberals: a single-payer government run health care syatem.

What exactly about that is unconstitutional, Constitutionally Speaking?



The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


and



The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


That is a start.

lacarnut
09-23-2010, 06:07 PM
Yet another straw man, backed up again by your jealousy and continued wishes for the wealth of others. Get a job.

I have asked this dipshit twice what he does for a living. Looks like WE WE is on the dole.

Rockntractor
09-23-2010, 06:12 PM
I have asked this dipshit twice what he does for a living. Looks like WE WE is on the dole.

He works for Acorn or whatever they call it now, I would bet on it!

lacarnut
09-23-2010, 06:15 PM
haha people here don't even read the posts. they just imagine this image of a "Liberal" that they hear about on the radio and picture it fornt of them and just smash their keyboards over and over

Most of the people here use simple writing skills like capitalization, punctuation and spell check. You should try it sometimes. It makes your babbling a little easier to read.