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View Full Version : Living in the End Times: Financial crisis, capitalism, big government, socialism



Wei Wu Wei
09-24-2010, 12:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8LPn4irao


very interesting, probably one of the more thought-provoking videos i've posted.


Examines the conservative, capitalist answer to our crisis, the socialist answer, and see where they both go wrong.

Wei Wu Wei
09-24-2010, 12:38 PM
We talk about pure capitalism, government interference.

There's Bernie Madoff, the nature of the capitalist and socialist structure.

words from wealthy capitalists and from outspoken communists.

Pop Culture references, the problem of our growing debt. At some point over half of our GDP will be on debt interest payments.

are we approaching a cataclysmic event in our social order?

Wei Wu Wei
09-24-2010, 12:49 PM
The future of China. A new face of Authoritarian Capitalism. What do we have to look forwards to?

Bongo55
09-24-2010, 03:58 PM
You do realize that only a dork answers their own posts.

marv
09-24-2010, 04:10 PM
My, my, my.

The world has been coming to an end since there was a world to come to an end. Civilization has been coming to an end since there has been civilization. And tomorrow you die.......maybe!

I'll wait and see for myself.

JB
09-24-2010, 04:43 PM
I don't watch pron for 50 minutes straight and you want me to sit through that? Pass.

Sonnabend
09-25-2010, 06:04 AM
don't watch pron for 50 minutes straight and you want me to sit through that? Pass.

You don't? Then how do you know how the movie turns out? :eek:

AmPat
09-25-2010, 11:39 AM
I tried, pass. Got work to do.

Bubba Dawg
09-25-2010, 11:41 AM
You don't? Then how do you know how the movie turns out? :eek:

He fixes the cable?

m00
09-25-2010, 01:59 PM
"This is what I don't like about today's left, they mask their lack of ideas by easy moralism. That's catastrophe." :p

m00
09-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Okay, I watched the whole thing. So what's your point?

Zathras
09-25-2010, 02:51 PM
Okay, I watched the whole thing. So what's your point?

The only point Wee Wee has is the top of his head.

Molon Labe
09-25-2010, 05:16 PM
Okay, I watched the whole thing. So what's your point?

Slavoj is just another along the lines of intellectuals that engage in theory over reality. They dismiss human nature outright and blame every problem in the last half milennium on captialism...even though modern capitalism has never existed outside the coercive state system.

If a group of human beings all desired to live under a volontary system of communism then so be it, but that requires them to give up natural rights. And that's the key. It would require volontary agreement to live under communism. The communists can't depend on that.

Since to use force or coercion to bring all individuals under that system would be immoral, then you have to have free enterprise as the default position of freedom. Communists have a hard time with that. They're in denial as to the coercive nature of Marxism.

Wei Wu Wei
09-27-2010, 03:11 PM
Okay, I watched the whole thing. So what's your point?

What did you think? Any comments or criticisms? Stuff you liked? Stuff that might convince more people to watch it.

m00
09-27-2010, 09:16 PM
What did you think? Any comments or criticisms? Stuff you liked? Stuff that might convince more people to watch it.

First of all, I think his audience is the left. I think he's trying specifically to convince the left to throw off the shackles of social capitalism and undertake a much more communist model (he calls it "new communism"). He makes a valid point that we are facing issues that neither the state nor the market are equipped to address. I happen to also think that communism isn't particularly well equipped to address these issues either, because the only mechanisms for enforcing communism is the market and the state.

Capitalism to me is the following: I pick apples, you pick oranges. On Saturday, I trade you 5 apples for 5 oranges. A regulated market is one where the government takes 2 apples and 2 oranges every time we make that trade (to distribute to people who can't or don't want to pick fruit), and a really regulated market is one where we have to get approval from the government to make that trade, and a government worker comes down to inspect the fruit (as if we couldn't do it ourselves).

I think Slavoj is against private property, and would ask "how is m00 picking apples? does he own the land? the apple tree? what gives him that right?" That is an interesting question, and I don't have a good answer other than that someone has to own it. If it's not me, or another private citizen, it then becomes the state - because the state is the entity that enforces non-ownership, and in doing so becomes the owner. In such a scenario the only people that get apples or oranges at all are those who are in power. This is a Communist Dictatorship.

So back to the issue of how do we address issues that neither the state nor the market are equipped to address. The problem here is that both are amoral entities, as in they are neither moral nor immoral. They both operate on a set of rules wholly outside of morals and ethics. But there is an institution which answers moral questions all the time - religion.

m00
09-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Seriously Wei Wei. I spent 50 minutes or w/e watching that. And all I get was a "so what did you think?"