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IanMartins
08-19-2008, 01:15 PM
Say what you will about Libertarians, but this campaign video from Bob Barr is pretty damn inspiring, and certainly well made (although Barr himself seems pretty insignificant and out-of-place compared to most of the other historical persons who appear in it, such as Reagan, Goldwater, Rand and King).

The Time for Liberty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxPrULE6dUU)

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 01:23 PM
All hail Reagan, the finest actor of the 20th century.

Seriously though, the Libertarians should just hang it up.

aerojarod
08-19-2008, 01:39 PM
There's a good interview Glenn Beck did with Bob Barr on Barr's website.

While inclined to vote my heart and go with Barr, I can't convince my logical side to pull the lever and give a vote to Obama.

But then again, would my vote really matter in Blue state like Connecticut? I'll have to see what polling looks like closer to election time. If there's no hope for McCain to win here, I'll give my vote to Barr just to see what kind of National numbers he can gather.

Would still like to see a competative Libertarian Party in the future though.

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 01:53 PM
While inclined to vote my heart and go with Barr, I can't convince my logical side to pull the lever and give a vote to Obama.

You call that logic?


But then again, would my vote really matter in Blue state like Connecticut?

Nope.



I'll have to see what polling looks like closer to election time. If there's no hope for McCain to win here, I'll give my vote to Barr just to see what kind of National numbers he can gather.

3-400k tops. You heard it here first.

Molon Labe
08-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Say what you will about Libertarians, but this campaign video from Bob Barr is pretty damn inspiring, and certainly well made (although Barr himself seems pretty insignificant and out-of-place compared to most of the other historical persons who appear in it, such as Reagan, Goldwater, Rand and King).

The Time for Liberty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxPrULE6dUU)

He's a better candidate than the two we have.

aerojarod
08-19-2008, 02:34 PM
You call that logic?

Why, yes- I do.

Listening to my brain and not my heart to keep that empty suit Marxist community organizer out of the most powerful leadership position in the world is about as logical as one can get.

I hope you don't find yourself in the voting booth when you're on your period, cause then who KNOWS what hormones might find their way into your decision making.

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 02:48 PM
Why, yes- I do.

Listening to my brain and not my heart to keep that empty suit Marxist community organizer out of the most powerful leadership position in the world is about as logical as one can get.

I hope you don't find yourself in the voting booth when you're on your period, cause then who KNOWS what hormones might find their way into your decision making.

I don't vote. I leave that to the unwashed masses that think voting for one guy actually means voting for another guy.

Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll be very happy when your dirty commie wins over that other dirty commie and we can all have a good chuckle when the Libertarian's pet Republican nets them their usual half a percent.

biccat
08-19-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't vote. I leave that to the unwashed masses that think voting for one guy actually means voting for another guy.
I think it's amusing that you pretend you don't vote by choice.

linda22003
08-19-2008, 02:50 PM
I hope you don't find yourself in the voting booth when you're on your period, cause then who KNOWS what hormones might find their way into your decision making.

I don't know which is worse, thinking that FeebMaster is a woman, or thinking that menses interfere with voting.

aerojarod
08-19-2008, 02:58 PM
I don't know which is worse, thinking that FeebMaster is a woman, or thinking that menses interfere with voting.

Ha! Everyone knows that liberal men bleed from their vaginas, too!

But seriously...you gotta wonder, though- for all the feable minded Obamaniacs out there that swoon with every "clean and well spoken" teleprompted word out of the Saviour's mouth... maybe a monthly change in hormone levels affects their emotional decision making center of their brains.

jussayin zall. ;)

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 03:10 PM
I think it's amusing that you pretend you don't vote by choice.

I wish you were amusing.



I don't know which is worse, thinking that FeebMaster is a woman, or thinking that menses interfere with voting.

Yeah seriously. I'm all man.



But seriously...you gotta wonder, though- for all the feable minded Obamaniacs out there that swoon with every "clean and well spoken" teleprompted word out of the Saviour's mouth... maybe a monthly change in hormone levels affects their emotional decision making center of their brains.

They're just dumb commies. CU wasn't much different when Fred "Let's Expand Social Security" Thompson was still in the race.

Troll
08-19-2008, 04:15 PM
While inclined to vote my heart and go with Barr, I can't convince my logical side to pull the lever and give a vote to Obama.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, I think it's worth mentioning that that's exactly the attitude the Republocrats want you to have. The ugly truth here is that this kind of attitude has put the Republican party in the state its in now. If Obama ends up in the White House, we're going to have Republican voters to thank every bit as much as Democratic voters.

Consider: The Republican Party has been drifting ever further to the left for some time, culminating in our current president who doubled the size of government, doubled government spending, and failed to take any meaningful action on immigration after 9/11. I can only speak for myself, but immigration, porkbarrel politics and our bloated federal government seem to be three issues that Conservative voters can all agree on. So what many Republican voters are saying is that they don't mind putting a political party ahead of their underlining principles. Instead of holding our elected representatives' feet to the fire, we just keep voting for them, come what may, and they keep on doing what politicians do. It's no wonder to me that there are now 40 million+ Independent voters in this country. I'm guessing at least 10 million of them are disenfranchised former Republicans.

The question becomes "when is enough enough?" How much debt has to be run up? How many federal government behemoths is too many? How many illegal aliens have to be let in and legitimized? How much erosion of our national sovereignty is too much? Does the next Republican presidential candidate have to deliever speeches only in Spanish? Will we take our business elsewhere then?

So in November, I plan on voting third party. Yes, since I'm in NC, that means I'm (probably) voting for Obama. Anyone that doesn't like it - good. I think Obama would be great for the Republican voters in this country. See where your unwavering loyalty to the Republican party got you. Maybe when there are enough Democratic and Independent voters in this country to render the Republican party obsolete, we'll consider shopping around for a conservative political party. I just hope that it isn't too late by that point.

biccat
08-19-2008, 04:25 PM
The question becomes "when is enough enough?" How much debt has to be run up? How many federal government behemoths is too many? How many illegal aliens have to be let in and legitimized? How much erosion of our national sovereignty is too much? Does the next Republican presidential candidate have to deliever speeches only in Spanish? Will we understand then?
How long should the people live under Democrat rule?

Even if Barr gets a few million votes, he won't compete with McCain or Obama, and he will hand the victory to Obama. How many terms of the Left's oppression is going to be enough?

If Obama wins two terms, then I think there is a very good chance that the next Republican president will deliver speeches only in Spanish. Although Arabic is probably just as likely.

IanMartins
08-19-2008, 04:43 PM
I largely agree with Troll -- I always vote on principle. If John McCain loses the election to Barrack Obama because a handful of people decided to vote for a third-party candidate such as Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin instead, McCain himself is entirely to blame, as he was the one who failed to secure your vote by moving too far towards the center in order to appease the liberals/environmentalists and betraying the principles of liberty. The responsibility lies with him.

If you wish to set the United States back on the right track you can't think in the short-term and keep voting for the lesser of two evils (you may feel that the most pressing issue is to defeat Obama, but if you give sanction to the status quo by voting for the lesser of two evils, you can be assured that the next presidential candidates will be equally horrible, if not worse, and you'll again feel the urge to think in the short-term). In order to set things right you need to think in the long-term -- only by voting on principle will the future presidential candidates improve. The GOP representatives will notice that they're losing increasingly many votes to the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party, they will learn that they cannot take the support of the small-government republicans for granted, and their future presidential nominees will reflect this.

OwlMBA
08-19-2008, 04:47 PM
"The Time for Child Prostitution and Legal Meth."

Sounds like fun!

:rolleyes:

Troll
08-19-2008, 05:02 PM
Even if Barr gets a few million votes, he won't compete with McCain or Obama, and he will hand the victory to Obama.

Oh, believe me - I don't think for a second that Barr will "win" anything in this election; that wasn't the point of my post. What I'm saying is that an Obama presidency may work out for the better in the long run. It could mobilize the remaining Republicans in congress to actually start acting like conservatives, if only to save their own jobs. It may show Republican voters what happens when you love your political party more than your country. At the end of Obama's second term in 2016, there might be more Independent voters than Republican voters, which I think would be an absolute godsend. The possibility of a viable third party! We'll have the Liberalos Americaños Party, the Republo-Centrist Party, and the American Conservative Party.

If there's one thing I believe in besides God and country, it's the Law of Unintended Consequences, and I think Obama, useless as he is, might actually do his part in furthering the cause of American Conservativism - similar to Clinton in 1994.

aerojarod
08-19-2008, 05:10 PM
"The Time for Child Prostitution and Legal Meth."

Sounds like fun!

:rolleyes:

Mischaracterize much?

I'm with most of you that are speaking about principle over politics, and giving the Republicans a wake-up call. However, on the flip side of things, what we lose in the meantime should be of equal importance.

I'm all for sticking it to the Republican congress, but if in the meantime with an Obama Presidency and a Democrat majority in congress, we'll see all sorts of new wealth redistribution, welfare, and healthcare programs handed over to bureaucrats. Once those things are Nationalized and the governement has their iron grip on them, we'll never get control back to a Federalist level again.

So, if your question to me is "how much are you going to takefrom the Republicans"... my question to you is, "how much are you willing to give up to the liberals" to make your point.

What can we do to work from WITHIN the party to see the Conservative revival we so want?

OwlMBA
08-19-2008, 05:14 PM
Mischaracterize much?

I'm with most of you that are speaking about principle over politics, and giving the Republicans a wake-up call. However, on the flip side of things, what we lose in the meantime should be of equal importance.

I'm all for sticking it to the Republican congress, but if in the meantime with an Obama Presidency and a Democrat majority in congress, we'll see all sorts of new wealth redistribution, welfare, and healthcare programs handed over to bureaucrats. Once those things are Nationalized and the governement has their iron grip on them, we'll never get control back to a Federalist level again.

So, if your question to me is "how much are you going to takefrom the Republicans"... my question to you is, "how much are you willing to give up to the liberals" to make your point.

What can we do to work from WITHIN the party to see the Conservative revival we so want?

I am all for Conservatism, but Libertarian Anarchy is not the answer. Limited Government = Good. No Government = Bad.

IanMartins
08-19-2008, 05:21 PM
What can we do to work from WITHIN the party to see the Conservative revival we so want?

I believe that the Campaign for Liberty will be able to accomplish much within the GOP, though I sincerely hope that the so-called "neoconservatives" will kick some sense into them in terms of foreign policy.

Personally, I'm dedicated to the advocacy of Objectivism however.
http://www.aynrand.org

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 05:24 PM
What I'm saying is that an Obama presidency may work out for the better in the long run. It could mobilize the remaining Republicans in congress to actually start acting like conservatives, if only to save their own jobs.

Which will last until about five seconds after their boy is in the White House. See exhibit A.


It may show Republican voters what happens when you love your political party more than your country. At the end of Obama's second term in 2016, there might be more Independent voters than Republican voters, which I think would be an absolute godsend. The possibility of a viable third party! We'll have the Liberalos Americaños Party, the Republo-Centrist Party, and the American Conservative Party.

Unlikely. 2012 will just be another OMG MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVAR with the usual "hey our guy isn't as bad as the other guy." 2016 will be more of the same, but by then people might be looking for some Republican flavored change they can believe in.


Exhibit A:

similar to Clinton in 1994.

How'd that work out for you?

Molon Labe
08-19-2008, 05:33 PM
So in November, I plan on voting third party. Yes, since I'm in NC, that means I'm (probably) voting for Obama. Anyone that doesn't like it - good. I think Obama would be great for the Republican voters in this country. See where your unwavering loyalty to the Republican party got you. Maybe when there are enough Democratic and Independent voters in this country to render the Republican party obsolete, we'll consider shopping around for a conservative political party. I just hope that it isn't too late by that point.

Check out this 3rd party guy here before go and vote for Obama. I understand everyone's ire about the Republican's these days, but I just think ol' Barack isn't woth the protest vote and just as dangerous as McCain. Like all 3rd party candidates, it's been tough getting them on the ballot...That has less to do with the message and more to do with the screwed up system. I'd thought long and hard between Barr and this guy.

http://baldwin08.com/Chuck-Baldwin.cfm

If I cast a vote at all this year it's going to be for him.

Troll
08-19-2008, 05:40 PM
How'd that work out for you?

You have a point, of course. I can't think of one single promise that was kept after the Republican Revolution. I guess I keep holding on to the vain hope that if the stakes get high enough, the voters of this country will start holding their officials to their promises and firing them if they don't...even if said official is a Republican.

Troll
08-19-2008, 05:48 PM
Check out this 3rd party guy here before go and vote for Obama. I understand everyone's ire about the Republican's these days, but I just think ol' Barack isn't woth the protest vote and just as dangerous as McCain. Like all 3rd party candidates, it's been tough getting them on the ballot...That has less to do with the message and more to do with the screwed up system. I'd thought long and hard between Barr and this guy.

http://baldwin08.com/Chuck-Baldwin.cfm

If I cast a vote at all this year it's going to be for him.

Yeah, I was reading up on this guy a few days ago. Unfortunately, he's in the Constitution Party (iirc) and unless I'm much mistaken, they're not on the NC ballot. Too bad too, he seems like a stand-up guy overall.

FeebMaster
08-19-2008, 07:28 PM
You have a point, of course. I can't think of one single promise that was kept after the Republican Revolution. I guess I keep holding on to the vain hope that if the stakes get high enough, the voters of this country will start holding their officials to their promises and firing them if they don't...even if said official is a Republican.

Never happen. First of all, most voters don't actually want their officials to keep their promises, especially if they're vague ones to shrink government. Pick a thread a CU on one of the popular Republican issues. Immigration: We need more laws to stop the illegal aliens. Gun control: We need laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands. The military. Spend spend spend. Drugs: lol.

Second, the "omg we have to vote republican because the democrat is 100 times worse" is amazingly effective. Granted, it's not going to win every election, but it's going to keep people voting Republican for a long, long time.

Constitutionally Speaking
08-19-2008, 09:40 PM
There's a good interview Glenn Beck did with Bob Barr on Barr's website.

While inclined to vote my heart and go with Barr, I can't convince my logical side to pull the lever and give a vote to Obama.

But then again, would my vote really matter in Blue state like Connecticut? I'll have to see what polling looks like closer to election time. If there's no hope for McCain to win here, I'll give my vote to Barr just to see what kind of National numbers he can gather.

Would still like to see a competative Libertarian Party in the future though.


If you are in an uber blue state like CT, I would say go ahead and vote your conscience. We NEED to bolster the conservative parties if only to send a message to the Republicans.

IF however, you live in a close state and you do the same thing, I will PERSONALLY visit your town and give you the stink -eye!:D

IanMartins
08-21-2008, 07:14 PM
Glenn Beck, on the current political landscape. I found it very entertaining, and in the spirit of this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kj119RjlWI

NonConformist
08-21-2008, 08:30 PM
As long as we keep voting for 'the lesser evil' we will continue our slide into tyranny.

The GOP keeps giving us increasingly liberal candidates, but a vote for the lesser of evil is still a vote for evil. We need to start getting third part candidates noticed and getting them Poll numbers or we are doomed to repeat this cycle over and over again