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Gingersnap
10-12-2010, 12:31 PM
Crippling Terrorism in One Step

Posted by Daniel Retter on Oct 12th, 2010 and filed under FrontPage.

(Excerpt:)

My plan is quite simple: Once it is determined that a country gives “safe haven” to terrorists or their training camps, like Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, then immediately, all visas – tourist visas, student visas, professional work visas, and even naturalization applications – shall be suspended and placed in moratorium. Determination should be decided by intelligence officials and not the State Department in this case. Those Muslim nationals who are currently abroad will not be able to obtain a visa to visit the U.S. or other Western countries during the visa moratorium period. Those Muslims who are already in the U.S. would be permitted to complete their specific visa purpose so that their studies or work are not interrupted. At the end of the educational or employment term, the current visas would be suspended and the Muslim “moderates” who hold them would be required to return home until the moratorium is lifted. This would also include naturalization applications by Muslim moderates, who are in the process of applying for U.S. or Western citizenship. Their applications would be suspended, and they would be required to wait for their U.S. or Western citizenship until the moratorium was lifted.

During the moratorium period, the thousands of aliens who reside in countries which harbor terrorist and who have applied for visas will be distressed, to say the least, if they are not able to travel to the Western country of their choice. These Muslim moderates would bring immediate and overwhelming pressure on their own governments to pressure our State Department to issue visas. The response from our State Department would be simple: ”Your country has been declared a ‘host to terrorists,’ and when you have eliminated that threat, we will be happy to issue visas once again.” This response would be no different than one applied to airports which are considered to be non-safe and to which American airplanes will not fly. The decision to declare a country a ”haven” for terrorists should not, again, be made by the State Department, as it is sensitive to political influences.

At this point the leverage begins. The pressure on the country that hosts the terrorists will be brought to bear, not by Western soldiers, but rather by the indigenous Muslim moderates who would then see to it that terrorism, and support for it, in their country would be eliminated. Standing by as their coreligionists wage war against the West would have an immediate cost to moderate Muslims. Not helping the West would prevent Muslim moderates from living, working, or studying amongst us.

If these Muslim countries decide to reciprocate and ban Westerners from visiting, they will then hurt only themselves, since foreign investment would dry up. This would only add to the leverage discussed above, as businessmen will pressure their own governments to allow foreign visitors to enter the country.

Read the whole thing!

Front Page (http://frontpagemag.com/2010/10/12/crippling-terrorism-in-one-step/)

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 01:26 PM
So much focus on Muslims. Truth is that if we imposed draconian measures against Muslims, we'd have an awful lot of non-Muslims raising their fists and voices about the injustice.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
10-12-2010, 01:30 PM
So much focus on Muslims. Truth is that if we imposed draconian measures against Muslims, we'd have an awful lot of non-Muslims raising their fists and voices about the injustice.

like you?

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Yes, like me.

Articulate_Ape
10-12-2010, 01:45 PM
So much focus on Muslims.

Gee, I wonder why.

Ree
10-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Yes, like me.
why?

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 02:13 PM
There's no doubt that the link between radicalized, fundamentalist fascist-style Islam and politically-oriented terrorist activity.

However, there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, reacting to a tiny fringe group and characterizing the entire group is similar to picking a handful of racist Tea Party signs and painting all Conservatives that way.

If we try too hard to focus on a billion and a half Muslims we are going to more easily miss the tens or hundreds of thousands of radicals that may actualyl be a threat.

Rockntractor
10-12-2010, 02:16 PM
There's no doubt that the link between radicalized, fundamentalist fascist-style Islam and politically-oriented terrorist activity.

However, there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, reacting to a tiny fringe group and characterizing the entire group is similar to picking a handful of racist Tea Party signs and painting all Conservatives that way.

If we try too hard to focus on a billion and a half Muslims we are going to more easily miss the tens or hundreds of thousands of radicals that may actualyl be a threat.

Your accusation is false, there are not a handful of racist tea party signs.

Gingersnap
10-12-2010, 02:44 PM
So much focus on Muslims. Truth is that if we imposed draconian measures against Muslims, we'd have an awful lot of non-Muslims raising their fists and voices about the injustice.

But at this point in time, terrorism wears a Muslim face - not an animist African face, not an atheist Northern European face, and not a Catholic Latin American face. If, as is often said, most Muslims want nothing to do with terrorism or with the political groups and religious leaders who feed terrorist dreams then energizing them to do something about the problem within their countries is a good idea.

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Right, most contemporary terrorists call themselves Muslims, but the vast majority of self-identified Muslims are entirely non-violent.

So yes, proper anti-terrorism would result in a lot of so called Muslims being rounded up and tossed in prison, but simply looking for anyone who calls themself a Muslim is an obvious logical fallacy (and in my opinion simply unjust)

Rockntractor
10-12-2010, 03:01 PM
Right, most contemporary terrorists call themselves Muslims, but the vast majority of self-identified Muslims are entirely non-violent.

So yes, proper anti-terrorism would result in a lot of so called Muslims being rounded up and tossed in prison, but simply looking for anyone who calls themself a Muslim is an obvious logical fallacy (and in my opinion simply unjust)

To make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.:cool:

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:03 PM
i love omelets as much as the next guy (especially with bacon bits and sour cream) but i'm not down with breaking a billion eggs for a couple dozen omelets

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:05 PM
isn't this the ironically similar inverse of 20th century communist propaganda? we can strip the rights of a few individuals in order to ensure the prosperity of the collective.

Rockntractor
10-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Wei Wu Wei building straw men since January 2010.

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:09 PM
the hilarious inverse image is taking away the rights of everyone in order to prosecute a few individuals.

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:10 PM
radical fundamentalist muslims want the united states to be the great devil, why should we justify their radical views by declaring a soft war on an entire faith and over a billion people?

Rockntractor
10-12-2010, 03:12 PM
radical fundamentalist muslims want the united states to be the great devil, why should we justify their radical views by declaring a soft war on an entire faith and over a billion people?

Survival.

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:49 PM
I think you are giving them far more credit and respect than is due.

When we drastically change our society because of their actions, how is that in any way a victory? Even if we kill every single one of them, they aren't afraid of that, they're willing to blow themselves up in order to make us see the world how they do and change accordingly, so we just do exactly that and think we're winning?

Odysseus
10-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Yes, like me.
Oh. In that case, it's no big deal. But thanks for letting us know and we'll be sure to get back to you with a response to your suggestions. We here at the US Army value your input. Really.

(is he still there? I don't know how much longer I can keep a straight face...)

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Cutting down weeds causes more to sprout up. Scorching the soil hurts us more than it helps. The key is to adjust the soil, so that dangerous weeds are less likely to grow, while benign plants can still prosper and work FOR us.

We need to understand how radical militant political Islam develops in it's environment (because most Muslims are not like this) and work to change the environment while simultaniously not giving in to their ideology.

While anyone can turn radicalized, they are far more likely if they are living in areas of deep povery and oppression with anti-western propaganda filling the air. Liberate the people, liberate their minds, and fascism cannot grow.

Nubs
10-12-2010, 04:45 PM
There's no doubt that the link between radicalized, fundamentalist fascist-style Islam and politically-oriented terrorist activity.

However, there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, reacting to a tiny fringe group and characterizing the entire group is similar to picking a handful of racist Tea Party signs and painting all Conservatives that way.

If we try too hard to focus on a billion and a half Muslims we are going to more easily miss the tens or hundreds of thousands of radicals that may actualyl be a threat.

If the actions of a few impact the lives of the many, action against the many will cause the many to police the few. It's basic peer pressure.

JB
10-12-2010, 04:45 PM
Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking. Again, I don't know where you went to school but you should ask for your money back. Stop being a fucking tool. You take every thread in a different direction or off topic with lies, conjecture, inaccurate quotes and/or hyperbole. You need to be reigned in on that bullshit.
we can strip the rights of a few individuals in order to ensure the prosperity of the collective.What rights? When they are here on their visa they have rights. No one is stripping them of that. Once we send them back to their country of origin they no longer have rights here.
When we drastically change our society because of their actions, how is that in any way a victory? Even if we kill every single one of them, they aren't afraid of that, they're willing to blow themselves up in order to make us see the world how they do and change accordingly, so we just do exactly that and think we're winning?Wow. Grand Canyon sized leap. We are not drastically changing our society. We are telling temporary guests of our country that it's time to leave. Plain and simple. We are telling them they can't come back until their country stops harboring terrorists. Just equate it to Cuba today. We don't do business with Cuba or allow their citizens into our country now.
We need to...work to change the environment while simultaniously not giving in to their ideology. See, that's the beauty of the plan which you are completely missing. How about we let someone else change the environment for once? What a relief that would be. Let the moderate muzzie students, employees, businessmen, etc...put the pressure on their governments at home. Let them finally have some skin in the game instead of sucking at the American teet. Isn't this what you libpukes want? To have America not involed in foreign affairs such as this?

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 04:48 PM
If the actions of a few impact the lives of the many, action against the many will cause the many to police the few. It's basic peer pressure.

Quote this forever.

Justification for a Dictatorship of the Proletariat

Sonnabend
10-12-2010, 05:26 PM
Once it is determined that a country gives “safe haven” to terrorists or their training camps, like Pakistan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html), Yemen, Somalia, then immediately, all visas – tourist visas, student visas, professional work visas, and even naturalization applications – shall be suspended and placed in moratorium.

And ALL foreign aid. They have a tsunami? Fuck 'em...let 'em drown.

Sonnabend
10-12-2010, 05:34 PM
the hilarious inverse image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_image) is taking away the rights of everyone in order to prosecute a few individuals.What "rights?" You do NOT have a "right" to a visa, visas are granted IF the nation in question WANTS to give it to you..no nation is obliged to hand out visas if they dont want to, and every nation on earth has every right to decide who they let in and who they dont.

It's called national sovereignty.

And national security.

Oh and Wee Wee, it isn't a "few" Muslims...it's MILLIONS worldwide. Millions. Indonesia for example...that little rat bastard Bashir is still running around after being involved in the Kuta massacre.

The Indonesian government gave him a slap on the wrist and let him go...which is why, as an individual, when asked for donations for the tsunami, said no.

When Schapelle Corby comes home a free woman, and Abu Bakir Bashir is put up against a wall and SHOT as a terrorist, then I will consider it. As of the moment, Indonesia and other nations in this part of the world harbour and fund and support terrorists...so quite frankly, if they want to do that? Fine.

Fuck 'em.

When they start to clean up their act, then maybe. The anniversary of that attack was yesterday, over 88 Australians and over 140 other nations and Indonesians...murdered in cold blood.

The hell with them. I see no point in supporting people who want me dead.

Sonnabend
10-12-2010, 05:41 PM
Cutting down weeds causes more to sprout up. Scorching the soil hurts us more than it helps. The key is to adjust the soil, so that dangerous weeds are less likely to grow, while benign plants can still prosper and work FOR us. Or use weed killer.


We need to understand how radical militant political Islam develops in it's environment (http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/?source=NavEnvHome) (because most Muslims are not like this) and work to change the environment while simultaneously not giving in to their ideology. Terrorism is Darwinian in nature. We understand it fine, the bleeding hearts like you are their useful idiots. You seem to think terrorism is news...Muslims have been shedding blood and murdering innocents for decades.

Time for the Islamic world to police their own.


While anyone can turn radicalized, they are far more likely if they are living in areas of deep poverty and oppression with anti-western propaganda filling the air. Liberate the people, liberate their minds, and fascism cannot grow.It is not my concern if another nation is pathologically incapable of being anything else than a religion filled fifth world shithole. Once they clean up their act, other civilised nations will be happy to trade with them. Iran is sitting on trillions in oil in the ground and the wealth is there for them to exploit...and they are one of the worst nations on earth in terms of rights and poverty.

With what they have they could turn Iran into a paradise.

As of now it's an Islamic shithole threatening its neighbours and sponsoring murder overseas. I see no problem to deny visas to the citizens of my enemy...especially when they threaten to export THEIR violence and their old grudges on MY soil.

Troll
10-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Those Muslims who are already in the U.S. would be permitted to complete their specific visa purpose so that their studies or work are not interrupted. At the end of the educational or employment term, the current visas would be suspended and the Muslim “moderates” who hold them would be required to return home...

Isn't this the way it's supposed to work anyway? :confused:

Overall, I like the idea. Let's lock down the southern border while we're at it.

Odysseus
10-12-2010, 08:08 PM
Cutting down weeds causes more to sprout up. Scorching the soil hurts us more than it helps. The key is to adjust the soil, so that dangerous weeds are less likely to grow, while benign plants can still prosper and work FOR us.

We need to understand how radical militant political Islam develops in it's environment (because most Muslims are not like this) and work to change the environment while simultaniously not giving in to their ideology.

While anyone can turn radicalized, they are far more likely if they are living in areas of deep povery and oppression with anti-western propaganda filling the air. Liberate the people, liberate their minds, and fascism cannot grow.

Wait a minute! Aren't you the guy who claimed in another post not to know anything about Islam?
I could have sworn that you admitted to almost total ignorance of Islam. Now where was that post...?


Honestly, I don't know that much about Islam to criticize it. For the most part, I'm less concerned with Islam in other parts of the world than I am with Islam in America.

*Snip*

Long story short, I don't have a problem with Christianity and I know far far more about it than Islam and I am able to criticize certain aspects of Christian culture or people who claim to be Christians. As for Islam, I don't know enough to take any firm positions. I'm still learning a lot.

So, long story short, you go from not knowing enough to take a firm position to knowing enough to lecture the rest of us on the roots of radicalization. Very impressive the way that you scaled the learning curve there. It would be even more impressive if you knew the differences in philosophy between Sunni and Shia, and how those differences impact their ideological approach to terrorism, jihad and the spread of Sharia Law and could articulate them instead of spouting pabulum about deep poverty (the Saudis, who supplied the bulk of the 9/11 hijackers, are among the richest people in the world, the terrorists who bombed the tube in London were middle class kids who'd been raised in Britain, and let's not forget that the Glasgow bombers were MDs) and the various other leftist talking points that substitute for thought with you. But other than that, you're on a roll.

Wei Wu Wei
10-12-2010, 11:29 PM
Wait a minute! Aren't you the guy who claimed in another post not to know anything about Islam?
I could have sworn that you admitted to almost total ignorance of Islam. Now where was that post...?

I don't know enough about Islam to talk about it's theology and I don't know about it's culture to properly understand it's practices but I do understand that violence like we see in radical groups against civilians is wrong. i also understand that the vast majority of Muslims are not radical militants, and none of the Muslims Ive ever met are even close to that. I realize there are some people who claim that Islam justifies their violence, and I do not have the theological knowledge to properly argue against it (although my gut reaction is that I doubt it), however I do know that no Muslim I've ever met has condoned violence and I also know that the majority of the 1.5 Billion Muslims are NOT militant groups.

Just think about it, it took 19 men with box cutters, with a relatively small leadership, to give the United States the largest attack on our own soil. That's 19 people, plus a few more in the organization. If Islam was inherently violent then that 1.5 Billion people would have killed us all a LONG time ago.

I don't know how many ways to explain it, but most followers of real Islam ( and I do not consider any religious faith that condones such violence to be legitimate, just like I do not accept the Christianity of the Crusades to be legitimate although I do accept Christianity as a peaceful movement to be) are non-violent and not our enemy.




So, long story short, you go from not knowing enough to take a firm position to knowing enough to lecture the rest of us on the roots of radicalization. Very impressive the way that you scaled the learning curve there. It would be even more impressive if you knew the differences in philosophy between Sunni and Shia, and how those differences impact their ideological approach to terrorism, jihad and the spread of Sharia Law and could articulate them instead of spouting pabulum about deep poverty (the Saudis, who supplied the bulk of the 9/11 hijackers, are among the richest people in the world, the terrorists who bombed the tube in London were middle class kids who'd been raised in Britain, and let's not forget that the Glasgow bombers were MDs) and the various other leftist talking points that substitute for thought with you. But other than that, you're on a roll.

I know enough about the broader and more peaceful movement of Islam, which I believe is the more accurate picture of it, to know that Islam is not the enemy. I cannot tell you about the radicals elements of it, but I can confidently say that (most) Muslims in America are nothing to worry about.

Since I'm usually the one answering questions I'll ask one:

What are your opinions on the First Amendment? What are your opinions on religious freedom in general (in the more abstract sense)?

Rockntractor
10-12-2010, 11:38 PM
I don't know enough about Islam to talk about it's theology and I don't know about it's culture to properly understand it's practices but I do understand that violence like we see in radical groups against civilians is wrong. i also understand that the vast majority of Muslims are not radical militants, and none of the Muslims Ive ever met are even close to that. I realize there are some people who claim that Islam justifies their violence, and I do not have the theological knowledge to properly argue against it (although my gut reaction is that I doubt it), however I do know that no Muslim I've ever met has condoned violence and I also know that the majority of the 1.5 Billion Muslims are NOT militant groups.

Just think about it, it took 19 men with box cutters, with a relatively small leadership, to give the United States the largest attack on our own soil. That's 19 people, plus a few more in the organization. If Islam was inherently violent then that 1.5 Billion people would have killed us all a LONG time ago.

I don't know how many ways to explain it, but most followers of real Islam ( and I do not consider any religious faith that condones such violence to be legitimate, just like I do not accept the Christianity of the Crusades to be legitimate although I do accept Christianity as a peaceful movement to be) are non-violent and not our enemy.





I know enough about the broader and more peaceful movement of Islam, which I believe is the more accurate picture of it, to know that Islam is not the enemy. I cannot tell you about the radicals elements of it, but I can confidently say that (most) Muslims in America are nothing to worry about.

Since I'm usually the one answering questions I'll ask one:

What are your opinions on the First Amendment? What are your opinions on religious freedom in general (in the more abstract sense)?

Hitler allied with Muslims, you have much in common.

m00
10-13-2010, 12:15 AM
I think you are giving them far more credit and respect than is due.

When we drastically change our society because of their actions, how is that in any way a victory? Even if we kill every single one of them, they aren't afraid of that, they're willing to blow themselves up in order to make us see the world how they do and change accordingly, so we just do exactly that and think we're winning?

this isn't drastically changing our society. This is not letting in people from random countries who have a habit of sending people over, whom we let in, to blow us up.

I dont know about you, but if I got a knock on the door from a Jehovah's Witness and he punched me in the face and left, the next time I got a knock from a Jehovah's Witness I wouldn't answer the door.

Sonnabend
10-13-2010, 01:03 AM
Since when does anyone have a "right" to a visa, Wei?

Constitutionally Speaking
10-13-2010, 05:49 AM
There's no doubt that the link between radicalized, fundamentalist fascist-style Islam and politically-oriented terrorist activity.

However, there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, reacting to a tiny fringe group and characterizing the entire group is similar to picking a handful of racist Tea Party signs and painting all Conservatives that way.

If we try too hard to focus on a billion and a half Muslims we are going to more easily miss the tens or hundreds of thousands of radicals that may actualyl be a threat.



The problem is that it is NOT a tiny fringe group. A pew center study (a lefty think tank by the way) found that:

13% of all American Muslims approve of suicide bombings.

5% of U.S. Muslims support Al Qaeda specifically & 25% refused to answer the question.

http://pewforum.org/Muslim/Muslim-Americans-Middle-Class-and-Mostly-Mainstream%282%29.aspx


Around the world, the numbers that support terrorism range from 5% to around 50% but even if you take the LOWEST figure and apply it to the whole world, it would mean that there are at least 75 MILLION Islamic radicals.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/26/where-terrorism-finds-support-in-the-muslim-world


We must find a way to eliminate the madrassas that teach the hate and radical ways, AND to get the moderates to banish the radicals - ALL THE WHILE eliminating the direct threats we have in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.

djones520
10-13-2010, 05:51 AM
Hitler allied with Muslims, you have much in common.

So have we.

Rockntractor
10-13-2010, 09:22 AM
So have we.

Of course Mr. Jones.

Odysseus
10-13-2010, 02:43 PM
I don't know enough about Islam to talk about it's theology and I don't know about it's culture to properly understand it's practices but I do understand that violence like we see in radical groups against civilians is wrong. i also understand that the vast majority of Muslims are not radical militants, and none of the Muslims Ive ever met are even close to that. I realize there are some people who claim that Islam justifies their violence, and I do not have the theological knowledge to properly argue against it (although my gut reaction is that I doubt it), however I do know that no Muslim I've ever met has condoned violence and I also know that the majority of the 1.5 Billion Muslims are NOT militant groups.
Your gut is wrong. There are three bases for Islamic law, the Qur'an, which is Mohammed's version of what he claims Allah revealed to him, the Hadiths, which are the examples set by Mohammed (roughly analogous to the Gospels, in that they are observations of the life of Mohammed by his circle) and the Sunnah, the traditions that came from the first generations of "rightly guided" Muslims. Each of these preaches violent jihad agains unbelievers. Are there Muslims who don't approve of the terrorists and their actions? Certainly. Were there Germans in 1939 who didn't buy off on Nazism? No doubt, there were. I'm sure that there were Norse people who weren't seafaring raiders in the Medievel period. But, they aren't the problem. They are the ones who are cowed into silence by the violent thugs, or who tacitly support them because it's safer than not supporting them. And as the thugs gain power, as we give in over and over to their sensibilities, the moderates are driven into their camp. The Muslims that you have met may not want to live under Sharia, or blow themselves up, or otherwise join in the global jihad, but as long as you dismiss the threat of the radicals, you guarantee that your friends will end up in their camp, because they will eventually have no other choice.


Just think about it, it took 19 men with box cutters, with a relatively small leadership, to give the United States the largest attack on our own soil. That's 19 people, plus a few more in the organization. If Islam was inherently violent then that 1.5 Billion people would have killed us all a LONG time ago.
No, you think about it. Nineteen men took flight lessons, had their rent paid while they assimilated, had all of their needs taken care of, while they prepared for how many years to take over those flights? Where do you think that money came from? Who processed their visa applications? Who radicalized them? The "only 19 men with boxcutters" meme ignores the massive support network that financed and trained those men and planned the operation. Instead of sticking your head in the sand an ignoring the rest of the Muslim Community's ties to the terrorists, why not ask yourself about the response to 9/11 (and every other one of the sixteen-thousand Islamic terrorist acts documented since then) in the Muslim world?

Here's some video on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-9JpRytCx0
Here are Palestinians, the people that we keep forcing the Israelis to make concessions to, celebrating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU
One would think that American Muslims would be immune, but here are some who found Nidal Hasan's shooting rampage at FT Hood worth celebrating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4
If only 1/10th of all Muslims sympathize with the radicals, that's over 150 million by your reckoning.


I don't know how many ways to explain it, but most followers of real Islam ( and I do not consider any religious faith that condones such violence to be legitimate, just like I do not accept the Christianity of the Crusades to be legitimate although I do accept Christianity as a peaceful movement to be) are non-violent and not our enemy.

Real Islam? How can you claim to know what real Islam is? You sound like one of those clowns who claims that the USSR and China weren't real Marxist states, so you can't hold Marx responsible for their crimes... Oh, wait. Sorry. Forgot who I was talking to for a second.


I know enough about the broader and more peaceful movement of Islam, which I believe is the more accurate picture of it, to know that Islam is not the enemy. I cannot tell you about the radicals elements of it, but I can confidently say that (most) Muslims in America are nothing to worry about.
And you can confidently say this based on what, exactly? On your admitted ignorance of Islam? On your lack of understanding of the doctrine of Jihad? How about Taqiyya? Ever heard of that? Know what a Hudna is? I've spent decades studying this. I've done tours in Islamic countries and seen their societies up close and personal, and you're assuring me that there's nothing to worry about? I'll say this for you, you don't know very much, but you are very confident in your ignorance.


Since I'm usually the one answering questions I'll ask one:

What are your opinions on the First Amendment? What are your opinions on religious freedom in general (in the more abstract sense)?

I'm rather fond of it. But, I also understand that it isn't a suicide pact. The First Amendment forbids congress from creating an establishment of religion, i.e., a state-sponsored church, comparable to the Church of England. It also guarantees the right to freedom of worship. But, what you fail to understand is that freedom of worship also means that other churches cannot impose their views on you. A Christian cannot order a Jew or Muslim to pray in a certain way, or even to pray at all, and a Muslim cannot compel a Jew or Christian to convert, obey Sharia Law or otherwise submit to Islam. What we are seeing is a global movement which is based on a religion, but which also has political overtones that Christianity and Judaism lack, and which, unreformed, is incompatible with the US Constitution.

Now, let's have you answer a question: Do you believe that Sharia law is compatible with the US Constitution? If not, what do you believe should be done about groups which are attempting to implement Sharia Law in lieu of US law?

Arroyo_Doble
10-13-2010, 03:52 PM
Delete

Odysseus
10-13-2010, 04:23 PM
Delete

Delete what?

Arroyo_Doble
10-13-2010, 04:26 PM
Delete what?

What I wrote.

Odysseus
10-13-2010, 04:58 PM
What I wrote.

Why didn't you just delete the post? :confused:

Arroyo_Doble
10-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Why didn't you just delete the post? :confused:

I didn't think of that. Old habit, I guess.