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Gingersnap
10-13-2010, 01:05 PM
Transgender golfer sues LPGA in bid to join tour

Updated: Wednesday, 13 Oct 2010, 11:27 AM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 13 Oct 2010, 10:20 AM EDT

(NewsCore) - A former male SWAT team member filed a lawsuit in California against the Ladies Professional Golf Association (LPGA) after the now transgender woman was denied in her efforts to join the women's golf tour, her lawyer said Wednesday.

Lana Lawless, the 2008 Women's Long Drive Association (LDA) champion, claims in her lawsuit that her civil rights have been violated by the LPGA. The LPGA rules state that no one can play on tour unless she was born female.

The LPGA has rejected Lawless' applications to enter qualifying events. Lawless is legally female after undergoing a sex change operation.

Lawless is also suing the LDA, which holds driving distance competitions. Lawless claims the LDA changed its rules to prevent her from entering future events after she won in 2008.

“California’s civil rights laws prevent discrimination against all minorities, including transgender persons. The LPGA and LDA operate a number of high profile qualifying events and tournaments in California which are highly lucrative to their sponsors," said Lawless' attorney, Christopher Dolan, in a statement.

Dolan said the goal of the lawsuit is to force the LPGA and LDA to end their discriminatory practices in order to continue running tournaments in California.

“I have traveled a long road to get to where I am now, a place where I always belonged as a strong, proud, capable woman. I am, in all respects, legally, and physically female. The State of California recognizes me as such and the LPGA should not be permitted to come into California and blatantly violate my rights. I just want to have the same opportunity to play professional golf as any other woman," Lawless said.

This has got to stop. Surgery and hormone replacement doesn't reverse longer bones, a bigger heart, a more efficient circulatory system, more upper body strength, and an edge on spatial coordination. It's just wrong. Letting men compete just puts pressure on women to use steroids in order to become masculine.

Fox orlando (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/national/101310-transgender-golfer-sues-lpga-ncx)

Phillygirl
10-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Agreed. There are reasons for the rules and a sex change surgery doesn't negate those reasons.

Gingersnap
10-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Agreed. There are reasons for the rules and a sex change surgery doesn't negate those reasons.

This guy could join the PGA, if he wanted to. The reason women have their own association is because most women simply can't compete against men in driving. We don't have the strength and leverage to drive the ball far enough to win. A woman would have to rely on her male opponent totally screwing up to make up the difference in strokes and people at that level of play don't totally screw up every time.

Apache
10-13-2010, 02:16 PM
I whole-heartedly agree with you guys.

Nubs
10-13-2010, 02:46 PM
If you were born with a cock, you are a male. No matter how you change the accessories you are a male. If you buy a Ferrari body kit and place it on a VW chassis, you are not driving a Ferrari. You are driving a VW that looks like a Ferrari.

noonwitch
10-13-2010, 02:52 PM
There was an episode of The Simpsons about this-a lesbian golf player who fell in love with Aunt Patty and proposed to her was actually a man pretending to be a woman so he could compete in the LPGA instead of the PGA.

It was very funny.

CueSi
10-13-2010, 03:00 PM
This has got to stop. Surgery and hormone replacement doesn't reverse longer bones, a bigger heart, a more efficient circulatory system, more upper body strength, and an edge on spatial coordination. It's just wrong. Letting men compete just puts pressure on women to use steroids in order to become masculine.

Fox orlando (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/national/101310-transgender-golfer-sues-lpga-ncx)

Agreed. As much as I am for transgendered people to have full lives, it is unfair for them to compete in women's sports...

~QC

Wei Wu Wei
10-13-2010, 03:20 PM
"The LPGA rules state that no one can play on tour unless she was born female."


They were smart enough to emphasize born female.

Looks like the ball's in their court. heh.

FlaGator
10-13-2010, 03:34 PM
This sounds vaguely reminiscence of

hmm... could it be.... Renee Richards?



She was content to start a new life in anonymity in Southern California (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/California/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) but became a cause c�l�bre the following year when a journalist recognized her playing in the women's division of a local tournament. " Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) is still physically a man, and that gives her a tremendous and unfair advantage," Rosie Casals (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Rosie_Casals/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), a prominent pro player, said at the time. "[She] has to be stopped." Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) had had no intention of playing on the women's professional circuit but was energized by warnings that she not try. "I don't like being excluded," Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) told Tennis magazine last year. "So then I got into fighting legal battles to be allowed to play." In 1977 she won a New York State Supreme Court (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/New_York_State_Unified_Court_System/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) ruling permitting her to compete as a woman, and though she was in her mid-40s, Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) played for five years and won one singles title. Fans and colleagues never wholly adjusted to her gender-bending, but Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) helped to usher in the power game and the unapologetic musculature prevalent in women's tennis today. Later, as a coach, she played a major role in transforming an insecure Martina Navratilova (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Martina_Navratilova/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) into a champion.
One of the country's foremost pediatric ophthalmologists, Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) has a thriving Park Avenue practice and in her free time usually shuns tennis for nine holes at the course near her Putnam County, N.Y., home. Now 65, she made a rare public appearance last month when she delivered an eloquent speech at Navratilova (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Martina_Navratilova/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s induction into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. "You are a true pioneer," she told Navratilova (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Martina_Navratilova/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm). Richards (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Renee_Richards/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) could just as easily have been describing herself.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019844/index.htm#ixzz12GkTf6bA

FlaGator
10-13-2010, 03:38 PM
I whole-heartedly agree with you guys.

Now I don't care who you are... that's funny.

Gingersnap
10-13-2010, 03:57 PM
This sounds vaguely reminiscence of

hmm... could it be.... Renee Richards?


Richards has stated publicly that allowing transgendered people to compete in women's sports is "stupid".

FlaGator
10-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Richards has stated publicly that allowing transgendered people to compete in women's sports is "stupid".

After he was allowed to compete...

Odysseus
10-13-2010, 04:50 PM
It sounds like he's lost two balls and wants a mulligan. :D

obx
10-13-2010, 05:35 PM
Renee Richards went on to write a book,"How To Play Golf Without Balls."
________
Bmw 5 series history (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series)

Odysseus
10-13-2010, 05:41 PM
Renee Richards went on to write a book,"How To Play Golf Without Balls."

It was "Tennis without balls." Hers were fuzzier.

obx
10-13-2010, 05:54 PM
I stand corrected.
________
Vaaapp (http://essentialvaaappvaporizer.com)

Sonnabend
10-14-2010, 07:36 AM
It sounds like he's lost two balls and wants a mulligan.

You


owe


me


a


new

monitor :mad:














:D

NJCardFan
10-14-2010, 08:32 AM
This is just plain idiocy. Like the "man" who carried "his" wife's baby to term. This person is still female. Disposing of the franks and beans doesn't change chromosomes or DNA. Micheal Jackson could try his ass off to be a white woman but his DNA was all black male. If I said it once, I've said it 1,000 times, political correctness is going to be the downfall of our society.

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 09:14 AM
You


owe


me


a


new

monitor :mad:
:D


http://www.nytimes.com/images/2007/08/31/us/windex_span.jpg

This is just plain idiocy. Like the "man" who carried "his" wife's baby to term. This person is still female. Disposing of the franks and beans doesn't change chromosomes or DNA. Micheal Jackson could try his ass off to be a white woman but his DNA was all black male. If I said it once, I've said it 1,000 times, political correctness is going to be the downfall of our society.

Don't make fun of Michael Jackson. Where else but in America can a poor black boy grow up to become a rich white woman?

Wei Wu Wei
10-14-2010, 04:34 PM
This is just plain idiocy. Like the "man" who carried "his" wife's baby to term. This person is still female. Disposing of the franks and beans doesn't change chromosomes or DNA. Micheal Jackson could try his ass off to be a white woman but his DNA was all black male. If I said it once, I've said it 1,000 times, political correctness is going to be the downfall of our society.

DNA isn't always so certain.

There have been many cases of women living full normal lives, very womanly women with all the proper parts in the proper places. They get married and try to have children and realize they have some sort of fertility issue. They go to a fertility clinic and realize, shockingly, that they have XY chromosomes.


This is a real thing. Are these women, or are they men?

JB
10-14-2010, 07:16 PM
DNA isn't always so certain.

There have been many cases of women living full normal lives, very womanly women with all the proper parts in the proper places. They get married and try to have children and realize they have some sort of fertility issue. They go to a fertility clinic and realize, shockingly, that they have XY chromosomes.


This is a real thing. Are these women, or are they men?Please post the many links to go along with those many cases.

Gingersnap
10-14-2010, 08:47 PM
Please post the many links to go along with those many cases.

Well, this is an important factor. In fact, there haven't been "many cases" in a population of 300 million - there have been a handful. Most genetically intersexed individuals don't express primary or secondary sexual characteristics that are clearly one way or the other which is why I'm all for these people getting surgery.

It's very much the same way we handle racial identification. Some biracial people clearly look more like one parent or the other in terms of race but many don't and we let them decide how to handle it. They can identify with either parental race or identify as biracial.

However, people of ethnic Chinese descent don't get to "become" Swedes by race. There is no amount of surgery or skin tone manipulation that will let them pretend to be genetic members of the various Northern European racial groups that make up indigenous Swedes. They can become Swedes by nationality and culture but not by ancestral claim.

Likewise, we don't allow generic white people to "become" racial African Americans no matter how much they might wish to do so. It doesn't matter that the white child might have developed an intense interest and affection for black culture. It doesn't matter that they "feel" black. Blacks themselves would be outraged and amused at any such claims.

Yet women have stood passively by and allowed completely genetic men to make an even worse claim to femininity and womanhood with little public protest. This despite the fact that most such men claim only the most stereotypical and culturally encoded aspects of womanhood. They never aspire to the average. :rolleyes:

CueSi
10-15-2010, 01:31 AM
DNA isn't always so certain.

There have been many cases of women living full normal lives, very womanly women with all the proper parts in the proper places. They get married and try to have children and realize they have some sort of fertility issue. They go to a fertility clinic and realize, shockingly, that they have XY chromosomes.


This is a real thing. Are these women, or are they men?

Truly intersexed people are a different case than someone who has had surgery to become the opposite gender.

~QC

Wei Wu Wei
10-15-2010, 03:03 AM
Well, this is an important factor. In fact, there haven't been "many cases" in a population of 300 million - there have been a handful. Most genetically intersexed individuals don't express primary or secondary sexual characteristics that are clearly one way or the other which is why I'm all for these people getting surgery.

It's very much the same way we handle racial identification. Some biracial people clearly look more like one parent or the other in terms of race but many don't and we let them decide how to handle it. They can identify with either parental race or identify as biracial.

However, people of ethnic Chinese descent don't get to "become" Swedes by race. There is no amount of surgery or skin tone manipulation that will let them pretend to be genetic members of the various Northern European racial groups that make up indigenous Swedes. They can become Swedes by nationality and culture but not by ancestral claim.

Likewise, we don't allow generic white people to "become" racial African Americans no matter how much they might wish to do so. It doesn't matter that the white child might have developed an intense interest and affection for black culture. It doesn't matter that they "feel" black. Blacks themselves would be outraged and amused at any such claims.

Yet women have stood passively by and allowed completely genetic men to make an even worse claim to femininity and womanhood with little public protest. This despite the fact that most such men claim only the most stereotypical and culturally encoded aspects of womanhood. They never aspire to the average. :rolleyes:

What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

Rockntractor
10-15-2010, 09:20 AM
What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

There is really nothing simple or basic enough for you to understand. You have a mental illness.

Gingersnap
10-15-2010, 09:47 AM
What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

Whatever it is, I feel strongly that genetic males are excluded.

Odysseus
10-15-2010, 10:23 AM
However, people of ethnic Chinese descent don't get to "become" Swedes by race. There is no amount of surgery or skin tone manipulation that will let them pretend to be genetic members of the various Northern European racial groups that make up indigenous Swedes.
Yes, but the attempts can be amusing:
http://s11.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/a/5/a51h2v6kbgn0k6gh.jpg


Likewise, we don't allow generic white people to "become" racial African Americans no matter how much they might wish to do so. It doesn't matter that the white child might have developed an intense interest and affection for black culture. It doesn't matter that they "feel" black. Blacks themselves would be outraged and amused at any such claims.

So, Vanilla Ice is screwed?


What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

You haven't dated much, have you?

CueSi
10-15-2010, 01:25 PM
What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

It's like porn, you know it when you see it. Thomas Beattie isn't a woman , despite his ability to give birth like one. This golfer isn't quite one, though she may look like one.

They're still human beings, with rights and dignity. . .but they are not women. They are artificially inter-sexed people.

~QC

Wei Wu Wei
10-15-2010, 01:31 PM
There is really nothing simple or basic enough for you to understand. You have a mental illness.

There is no signifier for the feminine in our subconscious, all we can do is dance around it but it brings to light a hole in our symbolic reality

Rockntractor
10-15-2010, 01:38 PM
There is no signifier for the feminine in our subconscious, all we can do is dance around it but it brings to light a hole in our symbolic reality

Animals are not without instinct, why are wei.

Wei Wu Wei
10-15-2010, 02:02 PM
Animals are not without instinct, why are wei.

True, but they are without gender.

(although that's not to say they're without biological sex, that's different)


It's because animals do not live in our symbolic reality.

Nubs
10-15-2010, 02:06 PM
What defines a woman? What is the essence of womanhood?

Factory installed uterus and ovaries along with owners manual (correct chromosomes). No after market parts allowed.

If you are born with maual transmission, you are male.
If you are born with automatic transmission, you are a woman.
If you are born with both, you are a hermaphrodite, or in current vehicluar nomenclature, a hybrid.

Rockntractor
10-15-2010, 02:10 PM
True, but they are without gender.

(although that's not to say they're without biological sex, that's different)


It's because animals do not live in our symbolic reality.

You should never judge a society or a species by it's aberrant individuals, only by how they deal with them.

Odysseus
10-15-2010, 05:06 PM
True, but they are without gender.

(although that's not to say they're without biological sex, that's different)

It's because animals do not live in our symbolic reality.
Don't tell that to Mrs. Ody's cats. They think that they do live in our symbolic reality and would be very upset to learn otherwise. :rolleyes:

Factory installed uterus and ovaries along with owners manual (correct chromosomes). No after market parts allowed.
If you are born with manual transmission, you are male.
If you are born with automatic transmission, you are a woman.
If you are born with both, you are a hermaphrodite, or in current vehicluar nomencalture, a hybrid.

LOL

I'd ask about front vs. rear drive and four on the floor, but this isn't an adults only forum. :D