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Gingersnap
10-14-2010, 11:18 AM
Xenophobia takes root in German mainstream

Published: 13 Oct 10 11:21 CET

http://i56.tinypic.com/4h8383.jpg

The acrid immigration debate sparked this summer by former Bundesbank board member Thilo Sarrazin has apparently had an effect on the German public. A poll released on Wednesday showed that one-tenth want a “Führer,” while one-quarter admitted to strong xenophobic attitudes – up from one-fifth in 2008.

The poll, presented in Berlin by the Friedrich Ebert foundation for political education (FES), showed that xenophobic views are taking a greater hold among the German public than previously.

The 10 percent who wanted a “Führer” said that this person should “govern with a hard hand for the good of Germany” and believed a dictatorship to be a “better form of government.”

One quarter of people questioned said they longed for a “strong party” that “embodies German society.”

More than 30 percent agreed with the statement, “foreigners come to abuse the welfare state,” said the FES, which is backed by the centre-left Social Democrats.

Even more people - 31.7 percent - said that in a limited job market “one should send foreigners back home,” and that too many immigrants put Germany in danger of being “overrun” (35.6 percent).

Anti-Islam views were particularly strong in the FES poll, which surveyed 2,400 Germans aged between 14 and 90.

Just over 58 percent said that “religious practice for Muslims in Germany should be seriously limited,” and that number rose to 75.7 percent for people from former East Germany.

Leipzig-based study authors Oliver Decker and Elmar Brähler called their findings an “alarm signal for politics and society,” saying the right-wing extremist views had multiplied during the financial crisis. People who promote such views could use the situation to “gain political capital,” they warned.

The study, entitled Die Mitte in der Krise - Rechtsextreme Einstellungen in Deutschland 2010, or “The mainstream in the crisis – Right-wing extremist attitudes in Germany,” also showed that older and less-educated Germans were most likely to be intolerant.

Still, the phenomenon is not confined to the “fringe” of society, FES spokeswoman Nora Langenbacher said. Instead right-wing extremist views are found in “worrisome amounts within mainstream society,” be it eastern or western Germany, men or women, young or old, members of democratic parties, or churchgoers.

The Local (http://www.thelocal.de/national/20101013-30455.html)

"Xenophobia" is probably the wrong term here. A growing number of Europeans, including Germans, see little benefit to the contributions of Muslim immigrants and they are fed up with the special exemptions offered to Roma that negatively impact communities. Younger Germans are increasingly uncomfortable with the collective social guilt trip imposed on them as a consequence of their grandparents' or great grandparents' actions (or lack thereof) during WWII.

This isn't a knee-jerk fear of the 'strange'. It's a complex shift in attitude based on 40 years of multicultural experience.

Arroyo_Doble
10-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Perhaps a candidate offering some sort of solution will be able to do well in an election.

Bailey
10-14-2010, 11:28 AM
Perhaps a candidate offering some sort of solution will be able to do well in an election.

Well for liberals I hope its a final one.

marv
10-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Obama was popular in Berlin, and he was full of solutions.

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 12:33 PM
Well for liberals I hope its a final one.

Beat me to it. :mad:

This is mixed news. Any polity will have a fringe that seeks a dictatorship that can accomplish everything that it wants. Here. we call them "progressives." What's surprising is that the number is 10%, considering how many Russians long for the good old days of Stalin, it's good to see that so few Germans, East or West, see a return to dictatorship as a viable course of action.

Also, it looks like the Germans are getting fed up with Islamization. That is good news, especially considering how many German mosques have been used as staging areas for radicalization and exportation of terrorist ideology. The sooner the Germans decide to scrutinize their mosques and weed out the ones that are actively involved in subversion, the better. The down side is that any action that the Germans take will be compared to the last time Germany cracked down on a religious group, even if the circumstances are completely different. It's an easy, if morally obtuse, connection for lazy leftists to make. Expect Wei to post something along those lines any minute now.

Tecate
10-14-2010, 12:37 PM
I can't speak for the rest of Germany, but there were a lot of Turks living in Dresden.

FlaGator
10-14-2010, 12:38 PM
Maybe we can trade Obama for a future 6th round draft choice?

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 12:53 PM
Maybe we can trade Obama for a future 6th round draft choice?

I'm not picky. We can just give him away.

FlaGator
10-14-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm not picky. We can just give him away.

I think that in 2012 he is going on the waiver wire.

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 02:31 PM
I think that in 2012 he is going on the waiver wire.

I was thinking more along the lines of free agency.

hampshirebrit
10-14-2010, 03:41 PM
http://i56.tinypic.com/4h8383.jpg


"Whoever does not love Germany, should leave Germany"

I can't speak for the person, but I have some sympathy for the sentiment on the shirt he's wearing, at least. It's one that's being heard increasingly, around Europe as well as the US.

We're getting fed up with people coming to our countries, from one religious group in particular, badmouthing the host nation and engaging in acts designed to terrorise the population and destabilise society.

Bailey
10-14-2010, 04:30 PM
Beat me to it. :mad:

This is mixed news. Any polity will have a fringe that seeks a dictatorship that can accomplish everything that it wants. Here. we call them "progressives." What's surprising is that the number is 10%, considering how many Russians long for the good old days of Stalin, it's good to see that so few Germans, East or West, see a return to dictatorship as a viable course of action.

Also, it looks like the Germans are getting fed up with Islamization. That is good news, especially considering how many German mosques have been used as staging areas for radicalization and exportation of terrorist ideology. The sooner the Germans decide to scrutinize their mosques and weed out the ones that are actively involved in subversion, the better. The down side is that any action that the Germans take will be compared to the last time Germany cracked down on a religious group, even if the circumstances are completely different. It's an easy, if morally obtuse, connection for lazy leftists to make. Expect Wei to post something along those lines any minute now.

Sorry major :( :)

Wei Wu Wei
10-14-2010, 04:37 PM
Xenophobia? In germany? :eek:

FlaGator
10-14-2010, 04:43 PM
Xenophobia? In germany? :eek:

I thought the same thing. Xenophobia is practically unheard of in the Reich.

Wei Wu Wei
10-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Replace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

in fact look up Israeli actions and replace "Palestianian" with "Jew" and pretty soon it all looks the same.

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 05:28 PM
...The down side is that any action that the Germans take will be compared to the last time Germany cracked down on a religious group, even if the circumstances are completely different. It's an easy, if morally obtuse, connection for lazy leftists to make. Expect Wei to post something along those lines any minute now.


I thought the same thing. Xenophobia is practically unheard of in the Reich.


Replace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

in fact look up Israeli actions and replace "Palestianian" with "Jew" and pretty soon it all looks the same.

Did I call that or what?

And no, Palestinians are not the new Jews, unless you are buying into the Nazi propaganda that WWII was caused by Jews victimizing Germans. A few differences:

It wasn't the Israelis that tried to drive the Muslims into the sea after the partition vote, it was the other way around.
The Israelis didn't forcibly expel Muslims from Israel, they were told to leave by the surrounding Arab governments so that they would be able to focus on killing Jews.
The same Arab governments forcibly expelled an equal number of Jews after the Israeli War of Independence, which Israell absorbed.
No Arab state will allow a Jew to immigrate or practice Judaism to this day, even Egypt and Jordan, which have signed treaties with Israel, while those Muslims who remained in Israel enjoy full citizenship.
Palestinians, when offered concrete concessions by Israel, such as pullouts from disputed areas or freezes on new construction, refuse to even give ceremonial concessions, such as recognition of Israel as a Jewish state.
Israeli media does not demonize Palestinians. Palestinian media presents Jews as monsters, repeats ancient blood libels and otherwise does everything possible to inculcate a mass hatred of Jews that would have made Dr. Goebbels proud.

The annoying thing about posting to you is that your simplistic propaganda points take almost no time to post, but rebutting them takes actual facts and thought.

FlaGator
10-14-2010, 06:31 PM
Did I call that or what?

And no, Palestinians are not the new Jews, unless you are buying into the Nazi propaganda that WWII was caused by Jews victimizing Germans. A few differences:

It wasn't the Israelis that tried to drive the Muslims into the sea after the partition vote, it was the other way around.
The Israelis didn't forcibly expel Muslims from Israel, they were told to leave by the surrounding Arab governments so that they would be able to focus on killing Jews.
The same Arab governments forcibly expelled an equal number of Jews after the Israeli War of Independence, which Israell absorbed.
No Arab state will allow a Jew to immigrate or practice Judaism to this day, even Egypt and Jordan, which have signed treaties with Israel, while those Muslims who remained in Israel enjoy full citizenship.
Palestinians, when offered concrete concessions by Israel, such as pullouts from disputed areas or freezes on new construction, refuse to even give ceremonial concessions, such as recognition of Israel as a Jewish state.
Israeli media does not demonize Palestinians. Palestinian media presents Jews as monsters, repeats ancient blood libels and otherwise does everything possible to inculcate a mass hatred of Jews that would have made Dr. Goebbels proud.

The annoying thing about posting to you is that your simplistic propaganda points take almost no time to post, but rebutting them takes actual facts and thought.

My reference was dealing strictly with the fact that Germany has had a long history Xenophobia that climaxed under the Nazi regime. Let's just say that it really didn't take a whole lot of prodding by Hitler to incite the population against the Jews.

Zathras
10-14-2010, 06:35 PM
Replace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

in fact look up Israeli actions and replace "Palestianian" with "Jew" and pretty soon it all looks the same.

Look at your comment. Back to mine. Back to yours. NOW BACK TO MINE. Sadly, it isn't mine. But if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate crap it could LOOK like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, finding the ones that your comment could look like. Back at mine, what is it? It's a highly effective counter-troll. Look again, MY COMMENT IS NOW DIAMONDS.

Anything is possible when you think before you comment or post.

I'm on a computer.

Odysseus
10-14-2010, 08:36 PM
My reference was dealing strictly with the fact that Germany has had a long history Xenophobia that climaxed under the Nazi regime. Let's just say that it really didn't take a whole lot of prodding by Hitler to incite the population against the Jews.

Sorry, I was posting to Wei. I forgot that I tagged your response. It was his simplistic propaganda points that I was excoriating.

Wei Wu Wei
10-14-2010, 10:23 PM
If you work for a living - we must UNITE

If you make less than 7 digits a year, we are being EXPLOITED. It's our duty to ourselves to FIGHT BACK. The revolutionary spirit was alive in our founding fathers. We must revive it.

Calypso Jones
10-14-2010, 10:26 PM
I really don't know that i'd call it Xenophobia which seems to insinuate fear. It's more like dislike to intense hatred. And anyway, muslims have brought iit on themselves.

as far as germans are concerned....it's nationalism. don't you think?

Wei Wu Wei
10-14-2010, 10:33 PM
uhh.......uber-nationalism in germany has not produced the best results....

Rockntractor
10-14-2010, 10:35 PM
uhh.......uber-nationalism in germany has not produced the best results....

Hitler, Hegel, Wei Wei?

Odysseus
10-15-2010, 10:36 AM
If you work for a living - we must UNITE

If you make less than 7 digits a year, we are being EXPLOITED. It's our duty to ourselves to FIGHT BACK. The revolutionary spirit was alive in our founding fathers. We must revive it.
Welcome to the tea party.

I really don't know that i'd call it Xenophobia which seems to insinuate fear. It's more like dislike to intense hatred. And anyway, muslims have brought iit on themselves.

as far as germans are concerned....it's nationalism. don't you think?
Two world wars followed by partition have pretty much beaten the nationalism out of Germany. One of the reasons that they are so pro-EU is that it provides them with a non-German identity that has far less baggage. This strikes me more as a reaction to the excesses of the open borders crowd and the failure of Muslims to assimilate. The Islamic culture is not compatible with western culture, especially the radicalized Islamic culture that is spread through the mosques and madrassahs in Europe. This is the crux of the objections of the most liberal of Europeans, the Dutch, who are about as laid back as you can get while still having a pulse. They have discovered that their Muslim immigrants don't care for the freewheeling raunchy lifestyle that most Dutch accept as a facet of modernity, and the Muslim intent to transform Amsterdam to Amsterstan is not sitting well with them.

uhh.......uber-nationalism in germany has not produced the best results....
Nor has having rampaging hordes from the east. Pick your poison.

Arroyo_Doble
10-15-2010, 10:55 AM
I believe you have misread the Dutch. They are not as "liberal" as you may believe.

But I agree to a certain extent on how they view the Muslims but it is not their intent to reign in the excesses of Amsterdam (the Dutch I know are embarrassed by the excesses of Amsterdam) but something else entirely.

Wei Wu Wei
10-15-2010, 01:29 PM
Welcome to the tea party.

I always say there are lots of similarities in the tea party movement and socialist movements. The only difference is that the Tea Party believes that our puppet politicians are the Ruling Class, and they actually believe by replacing a D with an R that there's going to be a shift in who holds the power in our society.


The ruling class is NOT our politicians, the ruling class owns our politicians (both parties)

Rockntractor
10-15-2010, 01:32 PM
I believe you have misread the Dutch. They are not as "liberal" as you may believe.

But I agree to a certain extent on how they view the Muslims but it is not their intent to reign in the excesses of Amsterdam (the Dutch I know are embarrassed by the excesses of Amsterdam) but something else entirely.
Embarrassment without action is meaningless.

Arroyo_Doble
10-15-2010, 02:32 PM
Embarrassment without action is meaningless.

They are Dutch. Coral it, put a curtain around it, and pretend it doesn't exist.

Odysseus
10-15-2010, 04:57 PM
I believe you have misread the Dutch. They are not as "liberal" as you may believe.

But I agree to a certain extent on how they view the Muslims but it is not their intent to reign in the excesses of Amsterdam (the Dutch I know are embarrassed by the excesses of Amsterdam) but something else entirely.
Could be, but the objection of Pim Fortuyn, who was an openly gay Dutch politico who felt that Islam was a threat to the Netherlands' traditions of tolerance and individual rights. I always assumed that his popularity was because he had struck the right note with the majority of the Dutch electorate. BTW, his murderer, Van der Graaf, was a vegan and animal rights kook with a penchant for intolerance of those who didn't conform to his worldview. He was employed by an environmental organizationthat he had co-founded, where he spent his time filing lawsuits against violators of environmental regulations, with emphasis on animal and fur farming. He killed Fortuyn because he claimed that he wanted to "protect weaker groups in society" and objected to what he claimed was Fortuyn's use of Muslims as "scapegoats" in a bid for political power. I bring this up because here you have someone from the far left, whose agenda would seemingly be at odds with radical Islam, but who is willing to murder on the behalf of Muslims who otherwise oppose everything that he stood for.

But, any inference on the part of anyone that leftists make common cause with radical Muslims is obviously racism and not based on anything written above. :rolleyes:


I always say there are lots of similarities in the tea party movement and socialist movements. The only difference is that the Tea Party believes that our puppet politicians are the Ruling Class, and they actually believe by replacing a D with an R that there's going to be a shift in who holds the power in our society.

You always say a number of things, most of which are unintentionally funny, when not infuriating. In this case, you are simply being fatuous. The Tea Party believes in liberty, limited government and objects to the unconstitutional expansion of government power. Socialists believe in compliance, all-encompassing government and object to the Constitution as an impediment to their ambitions. But, other than that, you're right. Both groups are comprised of men and women, for example. And the overwhelming majority of the people in both groups are symetrically bipedal, carry signs expressing opinions and consume foods which they convert to bodily tissue or fuel. I'm sure that I could find other things that they have in common, but philosophy of government, which is the key defining factor of both groups, could not be more different.



The ruling class is NOT our politicians, the ruling class owns our politicians (both parties)

Last time that I looked, George Soros had confined his ownership to Democrats.

But, perhaps you don't like the whole ruling class idea, finding it too broad to encompass the small cartel of 19th century industrialists whom you believe continue to meet in a mansion in top hats and tails and maintain their immortality through consumption of virgins' blood while conspiring to lower tax rates. If so, perhaps the phrase "governing class" is more appropriate, since it covers the politicians who seek to amass and centralize power in Washington, their staff members, the people who finance their campaigns, and the courtiers in the media who both flatter and protect them.

Or, I could be wrong and you mean a completely different group. Perhaps the Bilderburgers, the Illuminati, the Masons or the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. Please enlighten us as to who you believe pulls the strings. And don't worry about naming names. The Mods wrap their monitors in aluminum foil in order to ensure that the things that are written here are not hacked by those kinds of people. :D

hampshirebrit
10-15-2010, 07:14 PM
Fortuyn and Wilders speak for all Europeans as far as Islamism is concerned.

I'm starting to get a bit tired of Wilders being constantly depicted as a far right- fascist.

Even Glenn Beck has done this, and that's bullshit, it's wrong. How goddamn easy is it to play the racist card, when it is just NOT justified.

We just don't want to see our culture being over-run, is all. WTF is wrong with that.

Odysseus
10-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Fortuyn and Wilders speak for all Europeans as far as Islamism is concerned.

I'm starting to get a bit tired of Wilders being constantly depicted as a far right- fascist.

Even Glenn Beck has done this, and that's bullshit, it's wrong. How goddamn easy is it to play the racist card, when it is just NOT justified.

We just don't want to see our culture being over-run, is all. WTF is wrong with that.

Apparently, believing that you have a culture that's worth defending makes you a racist in the eyes of the left. Hard to believe that Glenn Beck would go after Wilders, though.

hampshirebrit
10-15-2010, 10:37 PM
Hard to believe that Glenn Beck would go after Wilders, though.

He did, albeit obliquely, a while back. Glenn referenced Wilders in making a point about emerging EU extremism on both sides of the political spectrum on his FNC show. It was an uncharacteristically misinformed slur on his part, and I thought, a very disappointing one.

I hope he'll put it right, in the light of today's high court's judgement.

CueSi
10-15-2010, 11:46 PM
Look at your comment. Back to mine. Back to yours. NOW BACK TO MINE. Sadly, it isn't mine. But if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate crap it could LOOK like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, finding the ones that your comment could look like. Back at mine, what is it? It's a highly effective counter-troll. Look again, MY COMMENT IS NOW DIAMONDS.

Anything is possible when you think before you comment or post.

I'm on a computer.

I was stacking vibrators. You made me drop them. I hate you.

~QC

m00
10-16-2010, 01:38 AM
Replace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

in fact look up Israeli actions and replace "Palestianian" with "Jew" and pretty soon it all looks the same.

You really should get banned for saying that.

Sonnabend
10-16-2010, 06:59 AM
eplace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

Viola?

Are you saying that there is too much sax and violins in this thread?

Wei Wu Wei
10-16-2010, 01:58 PM
Could be, but the objection of Pim Fortuyn, who was an openly gay Dutch politico who felt that Islam was a threat to the Netherlands' traditions of tolerance and individual rights. I always assumed that his popularity was because he had struck the right note with the majority of the Dutch electorate. BTW, his murderer, Van der Graaf, was a vegan and animal rights kook with a penchant for intolerance of those who didn't conform to his worldview. He was employed by an environmental organizationthat he had co-founded, where he spent his time filing lawsuits against violators of environmental regulations, with emphasis on animal and fur farming. He killed Fortuyn because he claimed that he wanted to "protect weaker groups in society" and objected to what he claimed was Fortuyn's use of Muslims as "scapegoats" in a bid for political power. I bring this up because here you have someone from the far left, whose agenda would seemingly be at odds with radical Islam, but who is willing to murder on the behalf of Muslims who otherwise oppose everything that he stood for.

I'm not familiar with this Dutchman. However I don't assume there's no islamophobia on the left.



But, any inference on the part of anyone that leftists make common cause with radical Muslims is obviously racism and not based on anything written above. :rolleyes:




You always say a number of things, most of which are unintentionally funny, when not infuriating. In this case, you are simply being fatuous. The Tea Party believes in liberty, limited government and objects to the unconstitutional expansion of government power. Socialists believe in compliance, all-encompassing government and object to the Constitution as an impediment to their ambitions. But, other than that, you're right. Both groups are comprised of men and women, for example. And the overwhelming majority of the people in both groups are symetrically bipedal, carry signs expressing opinions and consume foods which they convert to bodily tissue or fuel. I'm sure that I could find other things that they have in common, but philosophy of government, which is the key defining factor of both groups, could not be more different.

No they are the same in that wealthy elitists control both parties. There is one. Only one single socialist member of congress, whereas most industrialized nations have labor/socialist parties as a significant chunk of the legislative body.

Workers are underrepresented in the United States.






Last time that I looked, George Soros had confined his ownership to Democrats.

But, perhaps you don't like the whole ruling class idea, finding it too broad to encompass the small cartel of 19th century industrialists whom you believe continue to meet in a mansion in top hats and tails and maintain their immortality through consumption of virgins' blood while conspiring to lower tax rates. If so, perhaps the phrase "governing class" is more appropriate, since it covers the politicians who seek to amass and centralize power in Washington, their staff members, the people who finance their campaigns, and the courtiers in the media who both flatter and protect them.

Or, I could be wrong and you mean a completely different group. Perhaps the Bilderburgers, the Illuminati, the Masons or the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. Please enlighten us as to who you believe pulls the strings. And don't worry about naming names. The Mods wrap their monitors in aluminum foil in order to ensure that the things that are written here are not hacked by those kinds of people. :D

Clever, but there is no Other of the Other.

There doesn't need to be someone pulling the strings behind the scenes, there isn't any secret backroom deals where all the rich people meet up and plot on how to destroy workers. None of this is necessary and none of it (I believe) actually happens.

It's just the natural accumulation of wealth and power in a distorted social space.

For example, in ancient times it was believed that the heavenly bodies were being actively guided and pulled around by Gods. This is the Other of the Other, he who runs the system as such. It seems like a necessary condition, because the planetary bodies move with such harmony and balance, it looks to be only possible through active planning, but with modern science we understand that it is simply the natural accumulation of matter and it's motion through the distorted space (which is distorted by the very matter that travels through it).

This is how capital works.

asdf2231
10-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Look at your comment. Back to mine. Back to yours. NOW BACK TO MINE. Sadly, it isn't mine. But if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate crap it could LOOK like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, finding the ones that your comment could look like. Back at mine, what is it? It's a highly effective counter-troll. Look again, MY COMMENT IS NOW DIAMONDS.

Anything is possible when you think before you comment or post.

I'm on a computer.

OMFG...

You just hit EPIC status my man. :eek:

I just reposted that on FB.

MountainMan
10-16-2010, 03:27 PM
I was stacking vibrators. You made me drop them. I hate you.

~QC

If this isn't signature material, I don't know what is..... :D

Odysseus
10-16-2010, 05:55 PM
I'm not familiar with this Dutchman. However I don't assume there's no islamophobia on the left.
The left doesn't really demonstrate much in the way of Islamophobia. They do display considerable anti-Semitism, though. The virulently dishonest double standard applied to Israel is just one example, but there are many others, including campus violence against Jews by Muslims which campus officials ignore and condone. The left loves Islamist radicals because you see them as fellow travelers against the west. You fail to see that they see you as just more western infidels, and when the time comes, you're going to be suffering just as much as every other dhimmi.


No they are the same in that wealthy elitists control both parties. There is one. Only one single socialist member of congress, whereas most industrialized nations have labor/socialist parties as a significant chunk of the legislative body.
If you conveniently forget that the one Socialist caucuses with the Democrats. A truly radical capitalist party would treat an avowed Socialist like a leper, just as an avowedly democratic party, i.e., one devoted to democracy, would treat an avowed Marxist like a Nazi, i.e., a totalitarian slime bucket. Instead, the party is spending money to put a self-proclaimed "bearded Marxist" into the Senate, and has put multiple Marxists into the Obama administration.


Workers are underrepresented in the United States.
And you speak for them, right? :rolleyes:


Clever, but there is no Other of the Other.
Okay, we can eliminate English from the subjects that you claim to teach.


There doesn't need to be someone pulling the strings behind the scenes, there isn't any secret backroom deals where all the rich people meet up and plot on how to destroy workers. None of this is necessary and none of it (I believe) actually happens.

It's just the natural accumulation of wealth and power in a distorted social space.

For example, in ancient times it was believed that the heavenly bodies were being actively guided and pulled around by Gods. This is the Other of the Other, he who runs the system as such. It seems like a necessary condition, because the planetary bodies move with such harmony and balance, it looks to be only possible through active planning, but with modern science we understand that it is simply the natural accumulation of matter and it's motion through the distorted space (which is distorted by the very matter that travels through it).

This is how capital works.

Wow, elegant, clever, and completely batty.

Capital is a thing, not a person or group of people. It doesn't govern or pull strings, people do. You have stated that there is a ruling class that owns politicians. I asked for names. Your response was an uninformative segue into ancient cosmology. That's what we call a non-sequitur. If you can't back up your claim, admit it and we'll move on. If you can, do so. Name the rich people that you claim own the two parties.

Sonnabend
10-16-2010, 07:53 PM
But, any inference on the part of anyone that leftists make common cause with radical Muslims is obviously racism and not based on anything written above. :rolleyes:

Islam is a RELIGION.

Not a race.

Moron.

Zathras
10-16-2010, 08:23 PM
OMFG...

You just hit EPIC status my man. :eek:

I just reposted that on FB.

I'd like to take credit for that one but I found it on YouTube. I plan on using alot.

Zathras
10-16-2010, 08:30 PM
I was stacking vibrators. You made me drop them. I hate you.

~QC

You know it's a lot easier to do that if you keep them in their packaging.

Odysseus
10-16-2010, 11:08 PM
Islam is a RELIGION.

Not a race.

Moron.

He was quoting my sarcastic comment. But he is a moron.

warpig
10-16-2010, 11:21 PM
No they are the same in that wealthy elitists control both parties. There is one. Only one single socialist member of congress, whereas most industrialized nations have labor/socialist parties as a significant chunk of the legislative body.



Just like in other forms of scapegoating, conspiracists sometimes target people who in fact have significant power and culpability in a given conflict--Wall Street power brokers, corporate magnates, banking industry executives, politicians, government officials--but conspiracists portray these forces in caricature that obscures a rational assessment of their wrongdoing. It is not individual people who have the actual power, but the roles they occupy in social, political, and economic institutions. There are undeniably powerful individuals, but when they die, their power does not evaporate, it redistributes itself to other individuals in similar roles, and to individuals that scramble to inherit the role just vacated.

No single power bloc, company, family, or individual in a complex modern society wields absolute control, even though there are always systems of control. Wall Street stock brokers are not outsiders deforming an otherwise happy system. As Holly Sklar argues, "the government is manipulated by various elites, often behind the scenes, but these elites are not a tiny secret cabal with omniscience and omnipotence."~22 There is no secret team...the elites that exist are anything but secret. The government and the economy are not alien forces superimposed over an otherwise equitable and freedom loving society.

http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/conspiracism-05.html

m00
10-17-2010, 01:11 AM
But, any inference on the part of anyone that leftists make common cause with radical Muslims is obviously racism and not based on anything written above. :rolleyes:



Go tell Arab muslims, and Persian muslims, and Turkish muslims, that Isam is a race.

Odysseus
10-17-2010, 01:52 AM
You know it's a lot easier to do that if you keep them in their packaging.

Or use your hands. :D

Zathras
10-17-2010, 01:54 AM
Or use your hands. :D

:eek:

CueSi
10-17-2010, 11:44 AM
You know it's a lot easier to do that if you keep them in their packaging.

They were.. that's how funny you were. Take the compliment, dude. :p


Or use your hands. :D

I am not that talented, Major. :p

~QC

Odysseus
10-17-2010, 11:21 PM
I am not that talented, Major. :p

~QC

So much for the X-rated Circue du Soleil audition. :D

CueSi
10-17-2010, 11:23 PM
So much for the X-rated Circue du Soleil audition. :D


Yeahhhhh. . . .that's not gonna happen. Walking around in 6"-8" heels is hell on the knees.

~QC

Constitutionally Speaking
10-18-2010, 05:55 AM
Replace "Muslim" with "Jew" and viola! It's just like the good old days!

in fact look up Israeli actions and replace "Palestianian" with "Jew" and pretty soon it all looks the same.


Not even close Wei.


The Jews in Germany didn't flood the country with deadly rockets or suicide bombers.

AmPat
10-18-2010, 10:00 AM
Socialists believe in compliance, all-encompassing government and object to the Constitution as an impediment to their ambitions. But, other than that, you're right. Both groups are comprised of men and women, for example. And the overwhelming majority of the people in both groups are symetrically bipedal, carry signs expressing opinions and consume foods which they convert to bodily tissue or fuel. I'm sure that I could find other things that they have in common, but philosophy of government, which is the key defining factor of both groups, could not be more different. There be some funny stuff in this. :D

Wei Wei wants us to accept that there is no difference in the party of D or R. He also seeks to marginalize or minimalize the Tea Party. Apparently, he doesn't accept that the D's are closely associated or in fact the same people as the bad boogey men who really hold the power, and that they will move us much more rapidly as a nation toward complete servitude than the R's.

Perhaps Wei Wei wants us to be Socialist? If so, who is the extremist, Wei Wei and his ilk, or Conservatives who seek to move back to the status quo? I say if Conservatives desire a strict interpretation and preservation of our gov't as intended by the founders, Conservatives are the norm and liberals are the extremist party.

Odysseus
10-18-2010, 02:01 PM
There be some funny stuff in this. :D

I was particularly fond of the bipedal part. :D


Wei Wei wants us to accept that there is no difference in the party of D or R. He also seeks to marginalize or minimalize the Tea Party. Apparently, he doesn't accept that the D's are closely associated or in fact the same people as the bad boogey men who really hold the power, and that they will move us much more rapidly as a nation toward complete servitude than the R's.

Of course he does. We don't see him at DU, trying to convince them that there's no difference between the two parites, partly because they'd flame and then ban him, but also because he's not trying to demoralize them and convince them not to bother voting. Wei, like all Socialists, must use deception and disinformation to accomplish his ends. If he told the truth, that the Democrats are socialists (to the extent that they have any economic theories beyond unions=good, businessmen=bad), he'd have to defend Socialism on its merits. Much easier to deny that the Democrats are Socialists than to pretent that Socialism is workable.


Perhaps Wei Wei wants us to be Socialist? If so, who is the extremist, Wei Wei and his ilk, or Conservatives who seek to move back to the status quo? I say if Conservatives desire a strict interpretation and preservation of our gov't as intended by the founders, Conservatives are the norm and liberals are the extremist party.

Wei would love it if we were Socialist. Wei is a socialist. This is surprsing only in the same way that seeing a wooly mammoth at a zoo would be surprising, in that it survived the extinction of its peers. But since America isn't about to embrace Socialism willingly, he knows that he has to package it as something else. That's why Glenn Beck enrages leftists, because he makes the case that there's not a dime's worth of difference between progressives, liberals, socialists, communists and whatever other term leftists use to hide their agenda.

MountainMan
10-19-2010, 12:37 AM
Im just wondering now if I need to buy some stock in the companies that specialize in ovens? :confused:

CueSi
10-19-2010, 02:43 AM
Im just wondering now if I need to buy some stock in the companies that specialize in ovens? :confused:

The Corner. You must go to it.

~QC

MountainMan
10-19-2010, 10:20 PM
The Corner. You must go to it.

~QC

Which one? :confused:

CueSi
10-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Which one? :confused:

Pick one....

~QC

Wei Wu Wei
10-21-2010, 02:04 AM
I saw this interview the other day about the rise of anti-immigrant rhetoric in Europe, especially in Germany, with ties to American movements as well. Very interesting, as Žižek always is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6QcDXDPU4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vbkYHE2zJk


I like his invocation of the idea that Fascism always comes in the place of a failed revolution, his example of Kansas, and also Afghanistan