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LogansPapa
08-20-2008, 09:25 PM
Posted August 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

At a town-hall event in New Mexico today, John McCain was asked about veterans’ care, but the questioner added a provocative point at the end of her question. Take a look:

For those of you who can’t watch clips online, a woman in the audience told the presumptive Republican nominee, “Senator McCain I truly hope you get the opportunity to chase Bin Laden right to the gates of hell and push him in as you stated on your forum. I do have a question though. Disabled veterans, especially in this state, have horrible conditions…. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we have illegal aliens having a Medicaid card that can access specialist top physicians, the best of medical and our vets can’t even get to a doctor. These are the people that we tied yellow ribbons for and Bush patted on the back. If we don’t reenact the draft I don’t think we will have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell.”

McCain, without hesitation, responded, “Ma’am, let me say that I don’t disagree with anything you said and thank you and I am grateful for your support of all of our veterans.”



http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16624.html

Zeus
08-20-2008, 09:34 PM
Posted August 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

At a town-hall event in New Mexico today, John McCain was asked about veterans’ care, but the questioner added a provocative point at the end of her question. Take a look:

For those of you who can’t watch clips online, a woman in the audience told the presumptive Republican nominee, “Senator McCain I truly hope you get the opportunity to chase Bin Laden right to the gates of hell and push him in as you stated on your forum. I do have a question though. Disabled veterans, especially in this state, have horrible conditions…. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we have illegal aliens having a Medicaid card that can access specialist top physicians, the best of medical and our vets can’t even get to a doctor. These are the people that we tied yellow ribbons for and Bush patted on the back. If we don’t reenact the draft I don’t think we will have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell.”

McCain, without hesitation, responded, “Ma’am, let me say that I don’t disagree with anything you said and thank you and I am grateful for your support of all of our veterans.”



http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16624.html


I take it as a political brush off,nice way to say "Sit down & shut up". Notice he didn't say "My Friend" :D

Gingersnap
08-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Nobody aside from the Lefties wants another draft. Conscripts are notoriously stupid, violent, and unmotivated. I know a lot of people who are in the military and not one of them is interested in serving with a conscript. Why would they?

Zeus
08-20-2008, 11:00 PM
Nobody aside from the Lefties wants another draft. Conscripts are notoriously stupid, violent, and unmotivated. I know a lot of people who are in the military and not one of them is interested in serving with a conscript. Why would they?

I know a handfull of 30 yr vet conscripts. One even a con conscript. he tells it like this "One day a judge told me it's the military or jail,take your pick son" then he continues with "Next thing ya know a mere 30 yrs later they told me to go home & stay home"

Goldwater
08-20-2008, 11:06 PM
Enacting a draft puts a Dem into the White House.

Sonnabend
08-21-2008, 08:03 AM
Every time Rangel (D) puts that thing on the floor, he and the Dems look worse.

Like you,. we had conscription at one point, during WWI it was put to referendum twice, and slam dunked twice.

We had it in Vietnam, and it was nothing but grief.

Today's soldier is a professional, a volunteer and is there because they want to be there, not because they have no choice.

If the US restarts a draft it would be a mistake of catastrophic proportion, not to mention the shattering effect it would have on the military as it is now.

McCain was being diplomatic..and before LP wades in with his "foreigner" shit again (I am here to fucking stay, so siddown, and shut the fuck up...) it was the only proper response.

Rangel is on the skids as it is, this draft thing is a stunt which does him no credit, and everyone else no harm, as it is belted across the floor faster than a hockey puck.

Even if it was put onto the floor as a real Bill, and pushed..it would be killed stone dead. Wouldn't even make it to markup, let aklone a floor debate.

And the House? Fougeddaboudit.

Answer to OP? Dead issue.

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 08:05 AM
I have no problem with a draft, as long as there are no college deferments this time.

biccat
08-21-2008, 08:09 AM
I have no problem with a draft, as long as there are no college deferments this time.
Do you think women should be eligible for the draft as well?

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 09:12 AM
Do you think women should be eligible for the draft as well?

That's a tough one. Honestly, no, I don't think so. Part of it has to do with we need to still have people of that age here at home to keep our country running. Part of it has to do with my general disinclination to draft women into military service. I don't think, in general, they are suited for it. That doesn't mean that I think that those that volunteer are unsuitable, simply that, in the scheme of percentages, women are less capable of serving than men. There are certainly some women that are more capable. But to take a random group, who do not volunteer, I think you will have a higher percentage of those that are male than those that are female that are capable of serving.

CLibertarian
08-21-2008, 09:43 AM
IMHO, the only way that the draft should be brought back is if it is preceded by an actual Congressional Declaration of War as opposed to these spineless War Resolutions where the Congress-critters can try to soak up the glory for success or claim being deceived when failure occurs.

Sonnabend
08-21-2008, 10:05 AM
That doesn't mean that I think that those that volunteer are unsuitable, simply that, in the scheme of percentages, women are less capable of serving than men

Women and men serve equally in Israel, and they do well.I often wonder why those women who want to be in combat..aren't allowed to be. There is certainly precedent..and no one can say women have no courage.

So why not let them?

biccat
08-21-2008, 10:22 AM
That's a tough one. Honestly, no, I don't think so. Part of it has to do with we need to still have people of that age here at home to keep our country running. Part of it has to do with my general disinclination to draft women into military service. I don't think, in general, they are suited for it. That doesn't mean that I think that those that volunteer are unsuitable, simply that, in the scheme of percentages, women are less capable of serving than men. There are certainly some women that are more capable. But to take a random group, who do not volunteer, I think you will have a higher percentage of those that are male than those that are female that are capable of serving.

Interesting. I think the idea behind conscription is to create more bodies to throw at the enemy, and it was proven in Vietnam and subsequent military conflicts that such style of warfare doesn't work. But I think that if there was a draft, and the idea was more than fodder, then women should also be subject to it. Women don't have to serve in combat roles, they could serve in support or auxiliary, if women in combat remains a compelling concern.

LogansPapa
08-21-2008, 10:25 AM
If the US restarts a draft it would be a mistake of catastrophic proportion, not to mention the shattering effect it would have on the military as it is now.

McCain was being diplomatic..and before LP wades in with his "foreigner" shit again (I am here to fucking stay, so siddown, and shut the fuck up...) it was the only proper response.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, Sonnabend. I just think John was tired and the draft comment didn’t even register. I don’t think it’s any more complicated than that. What bothers me is why his people didn’t immediately come out afterward and clarify their guy’s statement.

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 01:06 PM
Interesting. I think the idea behind conscription is to create more bodies to throw at the enemy, and it was proven in Vietnam and subsequent military conflicts that such style of warfare doesn't work.

I'm not a military history expert, and I really don't have links and such to back me up, but I don't believe that the style of warfare being draft related failed to work. I think the politics of how the war was executed was what caused failure. I also think that if there is to be a draft, college shouldn't be a deferment. There is nothing like putting socio-economic distinctions in place to cause issues with regards to such a thing.


But I think that if there was a draft, and the idea was more than fodder, then women should also be subject to it. Women don't have to serve in combat roles, they could serve in support or auxiliary, if women in combat remains a compelling concern.
I can't say I disagree completely with you here. As I said, it's a difficult question for me.

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 01:08 PM
Women and men serve equally in Israel, and they do well.I often wonder why those women who want to be in combat..aren't allowed to be. There is certainly precedent..and no one can say women have no courage.

I understand that they do well, although I don't know the full extent of their participation.



So why not let them?

I think my concern lies more in the cohesiveness of the unit and the possibility of their use in a POW situation. I do tend to view women as the fairer sex and subject to special protection. Yeah, I know...throw away my feminist card.

But it's not an easy question for me. All the answers I have I'm not completely comfortable with.

LogansPapa
08-21-2008, 01:24 PM
Understand that the participants of the Viet Nam conflict, both military personnel and protesting street scum are still quite with us and still retain very strong emotions about that SEA incursion. If McCain were to reinstate the draft this country would go into revolution mode in about a week. Even hinting that such an eventuality is possible, especially prior to being elected, will equate to the gold standard of political suicide.

Molon Labe
08-21-2008, 01:27 PM
I have no problem with a draft, as long as there are no college deferments this time.

Draft my ass!

As a conservative...I'll take my que from Reagan.


it rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state – not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers – to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn't a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea."

or Daniel Webster..


Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents, and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war, in which the folly or the wickedness of Government may engage it?

linda22003
08-21-2008, 01:54 PM
I do tend to view women as the fairer sex and subject to special protection.

You obviously spent no time at a girls' prep school :p

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 01:55 PM
You obviously spent no time at a girls' prep school :p

Ha!! Very true!

Eyelids
08-21-2008, 02:09 PM
I'll run to Canada if they have a draft and come back once it's over. Screw fighting these asshole's wars.

LogansPapa
08-21-2008, 02:15 PM
I'll run to Canada if they have a draft and come back once it's over.

You won’t have to - there will be war in our own streets if a draft is instituted, short of world war of course.

Teetop
08-21-2008, 02:37 PM
I'll run to Canada if they have a draft and come back once it's over. Screw fighting these asshole's wars.

Spoken like a true chickenshit...

biccat
08-21-2008, 03:04 PM
or Daniel Webster..

Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents, and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war, in which the folly or the wickedness of Government may engage it?
During the Revolutionary War, Congress called up the State militias. Washington proposed legislation to compel registration for conscription.

That bastion of Constitutional Rights, the Confederacy, enacted a draft almost a year before the Evil North.

Eyelids
08-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Spoken like a true chickenshit...

Yea at least I'll be alive.

Molon Labe
08-21-2008, 03:12 PM
During the Revolutionary War, Congress called up the State militias. Washington proposed legislation to compel registration for conscription.

That bastion of Constitutional Rights, the Confederacy, enacted a draft almost a year before the Evil North.

Ok? Big deal. Lincoln also suspended the bill of rights and Wilson's League of Nations ushered in the stupidity of multilateral security institutions like the U.N. Translation: Historical precedents don't necessarily equal "good idea". I take it you are for this (draft) too?

gator
08-21-2008, 03:13 PM
There will be only so many volunteers to fight a perpetual war. So far we have been able to keep up, mostly because of the patriotic fallout from 911. We have used a lot of that up. No telling what the future will bring.

If we are going to being involved in beaucoup foreign entanglements we will need beaucoup man power.

The Liberals will have to deal with nobody wanting to serve under a weak Commander in Chief and their stupid use of the military for "Meals on Wheels" or killing Christians in order to protect the Muslims or fight warlords or whatever.

The NeoCons will have to worry about cannon fodder for their stupid little interventions all over the world.

FeebMaster
08-21-2008, 03:30 PM
Yea at least I'll be alive.

Nah. They closed that loophole a while back. Canada will deport your ass.

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 03:42 PM
I'll run to Canada if they have a draft and come back once it's over. Screw fighting these asshole's wars.

What makes you think you'll be allowed back?

Eyelids
08-21-2008, 04:04 PM
What makes you think you'll be allowed back?

Will you be standing there at the border with a shotgun waiting for me?

Phillygirl
08-21-2008, 05:15 PM
Will you be standing there at the border with a shotgun waiting for me?

Won't need a shotgun. I vote.

Zathras
08-21-2008, 06:08 PM
Yea at least I'll be alive.

And a traitor...a coward...someone unfit to be an American.

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 03:00 AM
Won't need a shotgun. I vote.

e mPo/wered a/nd i nfor/med me/mber of sOCI/ ety.

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 03:01 AM
And a traitor...a coward...someone unfit to be an American.

Oh no I'm unfit to be an American and a traitor/coward to a cause I never believed in! Go die for a lie there Zathras, they could wrap rat poison in the flag and you'd eat it up.

Zathras
08-22-2008, 08:28 AM
Oh no I'm unfit to be an American and a traitor/coward to a cause I never believed in!

Well, I challenged you on your manhood and you agreed with me. Basically you'd kneel down and kowtow to whatever enemy was attacking America instead of being willing to fight.


Go die for a lie there Zathras, they could wrap rat poison in the flag and you'd eat it up.

And what lies would those be Blinky? Please enlighten us with your "vast intellect".

biccat
08-22-2008, 09:55 AM
Ok? Big deal. Lincoln also suspended the bill of rights and Wilson's League of Nations ushered in the stupidity of multilateral security institutions like the U.N. Translation: Historical precedents don't necessarily equal "good idea". I take it you are for this (draft) too?

No, I'm opposed to the draft because I don't think conscripts make good soldiers.

But I don't think that the draft is unconstitutional.

Molon Labe
08-22-2008, 10:49 AM
No, I'm opposed to the draft because I don't think conscripts make good soldiers.

But I don't think that the draft is unconstitutional.

Sure it is ...Involontary servitude..and Reagan thought so too, so we believers are in good company.
And you're right, conscripts make a terrible soldier.....so how's 100 year McCain, Obama, and the neocon fucktards going to keep on intervening in evey corner of the globe? Hint: It doesn't happen with a volunteer army.

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Well, I challenged you on your manhood and you agreed with me. Basically you'd kneel down and kowtow to whatever enemy was attacking America instead of being willing to fight.

I think America is great and all, but there's no way I die for it. America is not an extension of my person (I am not that starved for a personal identity) and thus when America is threatened but I am not I really don't have much capacity to care. Terrorism for instance, I have a better chance of getting hit by a car than being killed by a terrorist. America and most Americans may feel threatened by terrorism, but I dont.


And what lies would those be Blinky? Please enlighten us with your "vast intellect".

That one where the Administration said Saddam Hussein attacked the United States, and then the only piece of evidence to support the lie was proven to be forged by the C.I.A.

LogansPapa
08-22-2008, 11:11 AM
And you're right, conscripts make a terrible soldier.....so how's 100 year McCain, Obama, and the neocon fucktards going to keep on intervening in evey corner of the globe?

We have no choice, economically, but to intervene in every little shit-pot in the world - as long as there’s a buck to be made. The French military exporters are the biggest whores on the planet - and always have been. A colonial history does that to you.

We will follow the same, exact path and hire mercenaries from other countries - if need be - to ‘project our power forward.’ Reference the amount of armed contractors in Iraq at the very moment for an education on that reality.

Phillygirl
08-22-2008, 11:14 AM
I think America is great and all, but there's no way I do for it. America is not an extension of my person (I am not that starved for a personal identity) and thus when America is threatened but I am not I really don't have much capacity to care. Terrorism for instance, I have a better chance of getting hit by a car than being killed by a terrorist. America and most Americans may feel threatened by terrorism, but I dont.



That one where the Administration said Saddam Hussein attacked the United States, and then the only piece of evidence to support the lie was proven to be forged by the C.I.A.

Other than the last bag of weed in Illinois...what exactly would you be willing to die for?

linda22003
08-22-2008, 11:16 AM
I think America is great and all, but there's no way I do for it.

No way you do... what?

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 11:23 AM
Other than the last bag of weed in Illinois...what exactly would you be willing to die for?

Really, in the interest of self-preservation and skipping any unreasonable situations ("if it was either you die or everyone else in the world dies") I wouldn't give my life for anything. I'm not so easily manipulated as to throw my body in front of bus due to happenstance of birth.

Molon Labe
08-22-2008, 11:35 AM
We have no choice, economically, but to intervene in every little shit-pot in the world - as long as there’s a buck to be made. The French military exporters are the biggest whores on the planet - and always have been. A colonial history does that to you.

We will follow the same, exact path and hire mercenaries from other countries - if need be - to ‘project our power forward.’ Reference the amount of armed contractors in Iraq at the very moment for an education on that reality.


Here's how you differentiate between American security and an unnecessary intervention. Butler figured it out 70 years ago.

If you want to wage interventionist war and conscript soldiers...then you conscript all the ones that have gain in the venture.


The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labor before the nations manhood can be conscripted. One month before the Government can conscript the young men of the nation -- it must conscript capital and industry and labor. Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our munitions makers and our shipbuilders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all the other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted -- to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get.

Let the workers in these plants get the same wages -- all the workers, all presidents, all executives, all directors, all managers, all bankers -- yes, and all generals and all admirals and all officers and all politicians and all government office holders -- everyone in the nation be restricted to a total monthly income not to exceed that paid to the soldier in the trenches!

Let all these kings and tycoons and masters of business and all those workers in industry and all our senators and governors and majors pay half of their monthly $30 wage to their families and pay war risk insurance and buy Liberty Bonds.

Why shouldn't they?

They aren't running any risk of being killed or of having their bodies mangled or their minds shattered. They aren't sleeping in muddy trenches. They aren't hungry. The soldiers are! - Major General Butler


I think it's only right that the private who's life is on the line day in and out at the hands of the "threat" to American security should be paid roughly the same amount as the guys who send them there.

Watch how long a foreign war that has little to do with real security lasts.

Phillygirl
08-22-2008, 11:48 AM
Really, in the interest of self-preservation and skipping any unreasonable situations ("if it was either you die or everyone else in the world dies") I wouldn't give my life for anything. I'm not so easily manipulated as to throw my body in front of bus due to happenstance of birth.

That's what I thought. Some day you'll discover that your personal existence is really not all that important.

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 11:53 AM
It is to me.

Phillygirl
08-22-2008, 11:58 AM
It is to me.

That's because you're not very bright.

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 12:02 PM
I think it's a pretty natural inclination to not want to die.

LibraryLady
08-22-2008, 12:08 PM
I think it's a pretty natural inclination to not want to die.

Then you better get the heck out of Chicago

Murder Rate in Chicago is up 18 percent over last year.

LogansPapa
08-22-2008, 12:13 PM
I think it's only right that the private who's life is on the line day in and out at the hands of the "threat" to American security should be paid roughly the same amount as the guys who send them there.

How wide is the reality gap between that scenario and mold (still) dripping from the ceiling vent in a veteran’s recovery room - here in the States?

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Then you better get the heck out of Chicago

Murder Rate in Chicago is up 18 percent over last year.

Oh no, MURDER RATES! BE AFRAID!

biccat
08-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Oh no, MURDER RATES! BE AFRAID!
:confused:

If you don't want to die, why would you choose to live in one of the cities with the highest murder rate?

Molon Labe
08-22-2008, 12:47 PM
How wide is the reality gap between that scenario and mold (still) dripping from the ceiling vent in a veteran’s recovery room - here in the States?

I know it's a pipe dream as long as we allow our representatives to continue passing the buck to the President. You know Michael Moore is a fat idiot...but the ONLY thing Michael Moore ever did worth a damn is when he went asking those congressmen if they were going to sign up themselves and their kids to go fight for American security. Not one of the little bastards wanted any of that!

LogansPapa
08-22-2008, 12:56 PM
Not one of the little bastards wanted any of that!

Word. :cool:

Zafod
08-22-2008, 02:56 PM
I know it's a pipe dream as long as we allow our representatives to continue passing the buck to the President. You know Michael Moore is a fat idiot...but the ONLY thing Michael Moore ever did worth a damn is when he went asking those congressmen if they were going to sign up themselves and their kids to go fight for American security. Not one of the little bastards wanted any of that!

Except the one he left out of the film.....

Molon Labe
08-22-2008, 03:30 PM
Except the one he left out of the film.....

Yep...He left a whole lot of things out...He's a master of propaganda, a modern day Leni Riefenstahl.

Zathras
08-22-2008, 06:51 PM
I think America is great and all, but there's no way I die for it. America is not an extension of my person (I am not that starved for a personal identity) and thus when America is threatened but I am not I really don't have much capacity to care. Terrorism for instance, I have a better chance of getting hit by a car than being killed by a terrorist. America and most Americans may feel threatened by terrorism, but I dont.

Nice to see that other, better Americans are doing what you refuse to do. No surprise there...You're the type who thinks he's entitled to something for free. In other words, an Ungrateful bastard


That one where the Administration said Saddam Hussein attacked the United States, and then the only piece of evidence to support the lie was proven to be forged by the C.I.A.

Funny, I remember just the opposite Blinky. The Administration never said Saddam attacked the US...have a link to this alleged info? From an unbiased source?

Eyelids
08-22-2008, 06:59 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12308.html

Zathras
08-22-2008, 07:09 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12308.html

Wow, a book....nice try Blinky but you fail...again.

Sonnabend
08-23-2008, 02:58 AM
Suskind has zero credibility. Of course Eyelash would quote him

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 03:09 AM
Wow, a book
Haha, yeah I know those things are for fags.

Sonnabend
08-23-2008, 03:13 AM
You really shouldnt be so hard on yourself.

Zathras
08-23-2008, 10:47 AM
Haha, yeah I know those things are for fags.

Books are for everyone Blinky. Books can also be written by people with an agenda. Books can say things that never happened. Books are not an unbiased source as I asked for. What I want for proof is video/audio of someone from the administration saying that Saddam and/or Iraq took part in the 911 attacks as you claimed. Now pull your head out of your ass and get to work.

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 11:30 AM
So wait, you're argument now is that we never were misled becuase Bush never gave any of the reasons that have now been ruled bunk?

This is unbelievable.

megimoo
08-23-2008, 11:39 AM
Women and men serve equally in Israel, and they do well.I often wonder why those women who want to be in combat..aren't allowed to be. There is certainly precedent..and no one can say women have no courage.

So why not let them?

Israel has their muzzie problems right in bed with them.They need every young Israeli male or female Hebrew speaking and armed and trained on how to shoot straight and respond quickley.
The IDF female reserves all carry American made M 4's 24/7 .

You do realize that this will draw sparks so to speak !

Zathras
08-23-2008, 11:40 AM
So wait, you're argument now is that we never were misled becuase Bush never gave any of the reasons that have now been ruled bunk?

This is unbelievable.

You claimed that the Administration said that Saddam/Iraq was behind the 911 attacks. I'm asking for unbiased proof of this. You failed to provide such proof. As I stated before, books are not unbiased as they are from one side only, that of the author. What I want is video/audio of someone in the administration saying what you claimed. Simple and to the point.

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 11:44 AM
You claimed that the Administration said that Saddam/Iraq was behind the 911 attacks. I'm asking for unbiased proof of this. You failed to provide such proof. As I stated before, books are not unbiased as they are from one side only, that of the author. What I want is video/audio of someone in the administration saying what you claimed. Simple and to the point.

So without using an academic source you want to prove something (The Bush Administration falsely connected Al Queda and Saddam Hussein) that everyone knows? You know I wouldn't even have to cite a source if I wrote that Bush misled the public in that regard in my Internationa Politics class?

megimoo
08-23-2008, 11:47 AM
You claimed that the Administration said that Saddam/Iraq was behind the 911 attacks. I'm asking for unbiased proof of this. You failed to provide such proof. As I stated before, books are not unbiased as they are from one side only, that of the author. What I want is video/audio of someone in the administration saying what you claimed. Simple and to the point.You would have better luck attempting to reason with a stop sign.Dealing with that ignorant critter is a vast waste of time and air and he is ,without doubt, thick as a brick !

Zathras
08-23-2008, 11:52 AM
So without using an academic source you want to prove something (The Bush Administration falsely connected Al Queda and Saddam Hussein) that everyone knows? You know I wouldn't even have to cite a source if I wrote that Bush misled the public in that regard in my Internationa Politics class?

I don't care what you what you would have to or not do in your class as that's irrelevant to the question at hand. All I'm asking for is video or audio of ANY member of the administration stating what you claimed.

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 11:54 AM
President Bush insisted today that "numerous contacts" between the ousted government of Saddam Hussein and the al Qaeda terrorist network showed that the former Iraqi leader was a threat to the United States, despite a report by the Sept. 11 commission that found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda.

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda [is] because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush told reporters after a Cabinet meeting at the White House.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48970-2004Jun17.html

July 17th 2004

asdf2231
08-23-2008, 12:07 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48970-2004Jun17.html

July 17th 2004


Learn the difference between "Error" and "Deception".

Dumbass.

Zathras
08-23-2008, 12:08 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48970-2004Jun17.html

July 17th 2004

Very good Blinky. See, if you think a little, you can actually do something right. Problem is, Saddam did support terrorist activities with money and training and provided aid and comfort to members of various terrorist organizations. After being wounded in Afghanistan, Zarqawi was hospitalized in Baghdad and recieved a prostetic leg there.

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 12:12 PM
Learn the difference between "Error" and "Deception".

Dumbass.

He had the CIA forge a letter....

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 12:13 PM
Very good Blinky. See, if you think a little, you can actually do something right. Problem is, Saddam did support terrorist activities with money and training and provided aid and comfort to members of various terrorist organizations. After being wounded in Afghanistan, Zarqawi was hospitalized in Baghdad and recieved a prostetic leg there.
Prove it.

Medical care doesn't count because even those guys in Gitmo are getting that.

asdf2231
08-23-2008, 12:14 PM
He had the CIA forge a letter....


:rolleyes:

asdf2231
08-23-2008, 12:17 PM
Prove it.

Medical care doesn't count because even those guys in Gitmo are getting that.


Speaking to the U.N. Security Council, Powell offered the most detailed explanation yet of possible links between Baghdad and associates of Osama bin Laden. At its center, he said, is Abu Mussab Zarqawi, a bin Laden associate who has traveled in Iraq.

Iraqi officials have steadfastly denied that they have any links to al Qaeda, insisting such charges are part of a U.S. disinformation effort to justify a military attack. Powell dismissed their denials, and said Iraq has a record of trying to deceive the world.

"Ambition and hatred are enough to bring Iraq and al Qaeda together," Powell said.

After al Qaeda and the Taliban were ousted from Afghanistan, Zarqawi, a Jordanian national, established a camp in northeastern Iraq to train terrorists in using explosives and poisons, Powell said.

The camp is in the northern Kurdish area of the country, outside the control of the Iraqi regime, but Iraq has kept track of events there by infiltrating Ansar al-Islam, a radical Islamic group that controls the area, Powell said.

Intelligence services disagree whether the camp is actually linked to Saddam's regime.

Zarqawi also has been sighted in Baghdad, Powell said. He traveled to Baghdad for medical treatment last May, staying there for two months "while he recuperated to fight another day," Powell said.

During Zarqawi's stay in Baghdad, nearly two dozen of his associates set up a base of operations in the capital to move people, money and supplies throughout the country, said Powell. "They've now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months," Powell said.

The United States, using another international intelligence service as an intermediary, twice gave the Iraqi government information it could have used to apprehend Zarqawi and break the Baghdad cell, but "Zarqawi still remains at large to come and go," he said. "From his terrorist network in Iraq, Zarqawi can direct his network in the Middle East and beyond."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.alqaeda.links/

Zathras
08-23-2008, 12:21 PM
Thanks ASDF

asdf2231
08-23-2008, 12:25 PM
Thanks ASDF


I don't have the time of inclination to dig up the MANY confirmed reports of wounded Hadjis being carried back to Iraq and patched up and given money and fake papers after they were wounded in Afghanistan for the little ass clown.

Zathras
08-23-2008, 12:37 PM
Prove it.

Medical care doesn't count because even those guys in Gitmo are getting that.

Ok.

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

Enjoy your crow.

Eyelids
08-23-2008, 12:39 PM
I'm not even going to click that link, lets see a source that counts like the WaPost, NYT or somebody with something to lose.

asdf - Your article mentions that intelligence communities dispute the connection.

Zathras
08-23-2008, 12:49 PM
I'm not even going to click that link, lets see a source that counts like the WaPost, NYT or somebody with something to lose.

So what you're saying is that you're too cowardly to click on a link that has references from 22 diferent sources? I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded and want the truth. But since you're insisting on links from other sources, here you go....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/08/uttm/main552868.shtml

http://waqarkhan.com/family/WAQAR/USAToday.htm

asdf2231
08-23-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not even going to click that link, lets see a source that counts like the WaPost, NYT or somebody with something to lose.

asdf - Your article mentions that intelligence communities dispute the connection.

Except that Zarqawi, the Hadjis and the fucking camps were THERE you halfwit.

Thanks for playing though.

ReaganForRus
08-23-2008, 03:42 PM
eyelids,

perhaps you'd believe the UN

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm