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SarasotaRepub
11-16-2010, 09:31 PM
What say everyone? Poll to follow!

Hawkgirl
11-16-2010, 09:39 PM
I voted for the first. "he who protesteth too much" type thing....

Rockntractor
11-16-2010, 09:41 PM
Are the pat downs free or do you have to buy a ticket?:confused:

Kay
11-16-2010, 10:29 PM
I voted shut up and step in the scanner.

I will say though, that the more I read on this, the more I wonder about the radiation levels. People who fly 2 or 3 times a year shouldn't have a worry, but what about the frequent flyer business traveler that flies 2 or 3 times a week regularly. I wonder if it could be harmful to be exposed to full body radiation, albeit low levels, that frequently without some side effect later on. :confused:

Calypso Jones
11-16-2010, 10:40 PM
Medical radiation devices i've heard are periodically checked to make sure they are safe. Are these at the airports?

maybe these are the death panels they didn't want to tell us about quite yet.

Rockntractor
11-16-2010, 10:56 PM
I voted shut up and step in the scanner.

I will say though, that the more I read on this, the more I wonder about the radiation levels. People who fly 2 or 3 times a year shouldn't have a worry, but what about the frequent flyer business traveler that flies 2 or 3 times a week regularly. I wonder if it could be harmful to be exposed to full body radiation, albeit low levels, that frequently without some side effect later on. :confused:

Past child bearing age I'm sure it is no problem but for younger people you kind of wonder.

Kay
11-16-2010, 11:09 PM
Good point. We might see a rise in birth defects from this.
And by the time you see the effects, it's a whole generation.
Excellent point though, if I were pregnant I don't think I'd
be stepping into one.

Calypso Jones
11-16-2010, 11:12 PM
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/16/quotes-of-the-day-512/

the effect of the radiation.

NJCardFan
11-16-2010, 11:12 PM
I voted for the first. "he who protesteth too much" type thing....

Not so fast. There is a little thing called the 4th Amendment. Let's review:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re-read it again and look at the words I bolded. Your right to privacy shall not be violated without REASON. You do not forfeit your rights just because you bought an airline ticket. Now, I am a sworn law enforcement officer. I am trained to pat people down. It's part of my job. I do it every day. But, outside of prison inmates, I just can't randomly pull people aside and search them. I need reasonable suspicion in order to do so. Randomly pulling some joker out of the line for further scrutiny is not reasonable suspicion. I don't care how you slice it, these machines and especially the pat downs are a gross violation of the 4th Amendment. In order for them not to be in violation, the only reason for the further scrutiny would be that you couldn't clear the metal detector.

Do not be tolerable of crap like this.

Kay
11-16-2010, 11:20 PM
Calypso, good article. It says this:



they are lower-energy beams that can only penetrate clothing
and the topmost layers of skin.


I've had two spots removed that were skin cancer.
I may need to change my vote in light of this new info.

Speedy
11-16-2010, 11:23 PM
As long as the Muslims aren't upset, what is the problem? Does it not strike anyone as stupid that the VERY people who attacked us are the ones who exceptions are being made for.

Rockntractor
11-16-2010, 11:33 PM
As long as the Muslims aren't upset, what is the problem? Does it not strike anyone as stupid that the VERY people who attacked us are the ones who exceptions are being made for.

I don't think the Muslims have been excluded from the searches yet, don't be surprised if they are but the out cry will be so great they will have to back down on all searches.
Beck was saying if this happens and the pat downs are eliminated and there is an attack, Obama will openly blame conservatives.

Speedy
11-16-2010, 11:42 PM
I don't think the Muslims have been excluded from the searches yet, don't be surprised if they are but the out cry will be so great they will have to back down on all searches.
Beck was saying if this happens and the pat downs are eliminated and there is an attack, Obama will openly blame conservatives.

Hell, the DUmbass, bastard would probably blame Bush for it like he has blamed everything else on him. I doubt that anyone would give him any credibility on it.

Rockntractor
11-16-2010, 11:47 PM
Hell, the DUmbass, bastard would probably blame Bush for it like he has blamed everything else on him. I doubt that anyone would give him any credibility on it.

Those are my thoughts, with his constant pulling the race card and some of the other crap he has pulled, not enough people will take him seriously enough to matter.

Hawkgirl
11-17-2010, 12:17 AM
Coulter was just on O'Reilly saying she is against it. They showed a 3 year old girl being fondled by TSA agents, who the father said, scarred her for life. (a bit dramatic, but he has a point)

She made some interesting points. Her view is that we adapt Israel's methods and profile instead of subjecting ordinary americans to these searches. She's right.

NJCardFan
11-17-2010, 08:58 AM
It's also to my understanding that these machines can't detect explosives anyway so what's the point? Let me tell you something, if someone wants to get something on board badly enough they will. You'd be surprised what inmates stick up their rear ends. Do you think for a minute some jihadist would think twice about sticking something up his bum? What's next, the BOSS Chair:
http://www.securityscanners.net/boss_2_large.jpg

RobJohnson
11-17-2010, 10:30 AM
I voted shut up and step in the scanner.

I will say though, that the more I read on this, the more I wonder about the radiation levels. People who fly 2 or 3 times a year shouldn't have a worry, but what about the frequent flyer business traveler that flies 2 or 3 times a week regularly. I wonder if it could be harmful to be exposed to full body radiation, albeit low levels, that frequently without some side effect later on. :confused:

Sounds like a non-invasive vasectomy to me. :D

RobJohnson
11-17-2010, 10:34 AM
I was at the airport that was testing the machines. I volunteered to be scanned. They thought I was trying to smuggle a log of summer sausage based on the lower frontal scan....

Gingersnap
11-17-2010, 10:38 AM
Some wit yesterday proposed that all airports be equipped with a device that would provoke a detonation when used on any explosives or potentially explosive compounds. Presumably, the device would capable of containing the explosion. Everybody has to go through the device - problem solved. :D Too bad it doesn't exist.

I voted to take the train. Frankly, I hate flying anyway and by the time that I want to travel again for pleasure (if ever), I won't have a need for speed. With the new technology available to us, we stopped traveling for work about 5 years ago. In our field, there's just no work-related need (there was some whining about the lost recreational opportunities).

RobJohnson
11-17-2010, 10:42 AM
Coulter was just on O'Reilly saying she is against it. They showed a 3 year old girl being fondled by TSA agents, who the father said, scarred her for life. (a bit dramatic, but he has a point)

She made some interesting points. Her view is that we adapt Israel's methods and profile instead of subjecting ordinary americans to these searches. She's right.

Some things bother/freak out children more then others....I would think being searched by someone in uniform would be one of them...just like some kids don't like hospitals, doctor offices, etc....

RobJohnson
11-17-2010, 10:47 AM
Some wit yesterday proposed that all airports be equipped with a device that would provoke a detonation when used on any explosives or potentially explosive compounds. Presumably, the device would capable of containing the explosion. Everybody has to go through the device - problem solved. :D Too bad it doesn't exist.

I voted to take the train. Frankly, I hate flying anyway and by the time that I want to travel again for pleasure (if ever), I won't have a need for speed. With the new technology available to us, we stopped traveling for work about 5 years ago. In our field, there's just no work-related need (there was some whining about the lost recreational opportunities).

I usually only fly two round trips a year....I get right thru security everytime. It also might be my personality. I thank the TSA for their service.....God Bless them, they take so much stuff, and they simply are working for a living like the rest of us.

A friend of mine is a TSA officer, she has had to take gifts of soaps and lotions from children's bags that were gifts from Grandparents...it breaks her heart, and she even allows them to call a local relative to pick the stuff up and mail it to them...she holds it for the party to show up, and lets the folks go on their way home....

Just in one six hour shift, she found three knives and a bag of weed....do these people live in a cave and not know they are going to get caught???

Speedy
11-17-2010, 02:34 PM
Just in one six hour shift, she found three knives and a bag of weed....do these people live in a cave and not know they are going to get caught???

I would be willing to bet that the people who carried those knives could have been allowed to have them and nothing would have come of it. You could let me board with a .45 on my hip and an AR-15 strapped to my back and no one would be endangered in the least. It is not what you bring onboard, it is who brings it on board that matters.

ralph wiggum
11-17-2010, 02:53 PM
Are the pat downs free or do you have to buy a ticket?:confused:

Can you ask for a female screener? :D

Molon Labe
11-17-2010, 04:00 PM
Here's a good explanation video of how it makes us safer.

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7640559/

Articulate_Ape
11-17-2010, 05:09 PM
Ask yourself what happens when some dune baboon attempts (or succeeds in) using an explosive device stuck up his/her ass? (Face it, it's been done) What then? Are we to subject nuns and Lutheran grandmothers to body cavity searches? How about we stop the PC bullshit and collectively admit that we know exactly who poses the greatest risk and focus on them. Wouldn't that be novel? :rolleyes:

Odysseus
11-17-2010, 07:26 PM
As long as the Muslims aren't upset, what is the problem? Does it not strike anyone as stupid that the VERY people who attacked us are the ones who exceptions are being made for.
It strikes us all as stupid. Fortunately, the idiocy of that has already prompted a backlash and CAIR will either back down, or be further exposed as the terrorist facilitators that they are.

And yes, it's idiotic. We can't profile, but we can subject everybody to a body scan and/or a patdown.

I was at the airport that was testing the machines. I volunteered to be scanned. They thought I was trying to smuggle a log of summer sausage based on the lower frontal scan....
Then they discovered that you were trying to smuggle a log of summer sausage. D'oh!

Can you ask for a female screener? :D
Yes, but you have to buy them dinner, first. :D

Ask yourself what happens when some dune baboon attempts (or succeeds in) using an explosive device stuck up his/her ass? (Face it, it's been done) What then? Are we to subject nuns and Lutheran grandmothers to body cavity searches? How about we stop the PC bullshit and collectively admit that we know exactly who poses the greatest risk and focus on them. Wouldn't that be novel? :rolleyes:
I expect that the full body cavity search will be limited to bikini models and other really hot babes.

Molon Labe
11-17-2010, 08:01 PM
Ask yourself what happens when some dune baboon attempts (or succeeds in) using an explosive device stuck up his/her ass? (Face it, it's been done) What then? Are we to subject nuns and Lutheran grandmothers to body cavity searches? How about we stop the PC bullshit and collectively admit that we know exactly who poses the greatest risk and focus on them. Wouldn't that be novel? :rolleyes:

That wouldn't be in TSA's interest.

Why, it's hot women that pose the greatest risk to our security. That way TSA goons get to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXDLQPfqc04

Madisonian
11-17-2010, 08:06 PM
Take the train since it was the only non-flight option, but I would probably just drive.

I have not needed to fly in about 5 years and as long as Nevada remains stupid enough to elect a thieving bastard like Reid, I see no reason to go to Vegas and spend my money anymore.

Screw the TSA and Homeland Security Theater.

Apache
11-17-2010, 08:16 PM
The TSA is a joke...


IF they ever start casting a hard eye on the real targets I might fly again. Train option for me :rolleyes:

Odysseus
11-17-2010, 08:38 PM
Between the increasingly miserable service (adding two more rows of seats means that I can barely get my legs in, and I know that the storage space for carry-on bags has gotten smaller), the intrustive but futile security measures and the overall hassle, I'm getting to the point where I'd only fly if I'm doing it on army business (i.e., have no choice) or if it's unavoidable.

I'd chalk this up to Obama's high speed rail fetish, but the trend has been going on for several years now. Still, I'd happily take a high-speed train that could cross the country at 150 MPH, which would mean a 20-hour trip in relative comfort, vs. a 5-hour trip in a cattle car with wings.

There was a great SNL sketch, back when it was funny, an airline commercial that still resonates. I've found the transcript, but it doesn't seem to be on YouTube.


81e: Lauren Hutton / Rick James & The Stone City Band

TransEastern Airlines

Counter Girl.....Christine Ebersole
Baggage Boy.....Eddie Murphy
Security Woman.....Robin Duke
Pilot.....Joe Piscopo
Stewardess.....Mary Gross

Jingle: "High above the mountains and the rivers of this country
A silver bird is gleaming in the sun."

Counter Girl: Hi! I'm Pam, and I'm the gal who tells you we're overbooked!

Jingle: "Taking kids to visit Grandma for a big Thanksgiving dinner
And Americans on business or on fun."

Baggage Boy: Hi, I'm Hank! I'm the guy that loses your luggage!

Jingle: "From a rancher in Wyoming, to a banker up in Boston
A nation of 200 million sings."

Security Woman: I'm Judy. I ruin your film by putting it through the X-ray machine, and then I lie about it!"

Jingle: "All praising our good airline and the good folks at Trans-eastern
It's like flying in a cattle car with wings."

Pilot: I'm Ted, and I keep you stacked up over Dallas for three hours!

Jingle: "Sing the praises of an airline."

Stewardess: I'm Arlene, and I hassle you about carrying too much hand luggage, and make sure there are loads of boring magazines!

Jingle: "and the good folks at Trans-Eastern."

Stewardess: Incidentally, I'm about as bright as a small appliance bulb!

Jingle: "It's like flying in a cattle car with wings!"

Announcer: Trans-Eastern. You feel like you never left the ground. Because we treat you like dirt.

Gingersnap
11-17-2010, 08:44 PM
I'd chalk this up to Obama's high speed rail fetish, but the trend has been going on for several years now. Still, I'd happily take a high-speed train that could cross the country at 150 MPH, which would mean a 20-hour trip in relative comfort, vs. a 5-hour trip in a cattle car with wings.

I would also prefer this but I have no confidence that the Feds wouldn't screw up the experience somehow. High speed cross country rail coupled with the amenities we've seen in old movies would be wonderful.

SaintLouieWoman
11-17-2010, 10:01 PM
Not so fast. There is a little thing called the 4th Amendment. Let's review:


Re-read it again and look at the words I bolded. Your right to privacy shall not be violated without REASON. You do not forfeit your rights just because you bought an airline ticket. Now, I am a sworn law enforcement officer. I am trained to pat people down. It's part of my job. I do it every day. But, outside of prison inmates, I just can't randomly pull people aside and search them. I need reasonable suspicion in order to do so. Randomly pulling some joker out of the line for further scrutiny is not reasonable suspicion. I don't care how you slice it, these machines and especially the pat downs are a gross violation of the 4th Amendment. In order for them not to be in violation, the only reason for the further scrutiny would be that you couldn't clear the metal detector.

Do not be tolerable of crap like this.

I've been subject to this indignity for a long time because I had a knee replacement 10 years ago. It sets off the metal detector. I have a card from the doc telling the date of the surgery, xray pic, but it does no good.

I'm sitting back almost amused at how people are objecting to these pat downs. I've hated it for a long time, but keep my mouth shut to avoid trouble. I get very upset, but SR always tells me to chill. Yes, those pat downs are invasive, worse depending on the agent and their training.

I think they should do the profiling and use the tactics of the Israelis. The hell with the ladies in the burkas who don't want to be checked. If I have to, they have to endure. It's better that no one has to endure this from the government.

Realistically, with the increasing security threats, we'll have to pressure the Obama administration to crack down on the perpetrators, vs the American travelling public.

Odysseus
11-17-2010, 10:28 PM
I would also prefer this but I have no confidence that the Feds wouldn't screw up the experience somehow. High speed cross country rail coupled with the amenities we've seen in old movies would be wonderful.
Wouldn't, though? I don't have any faith in the government to run it, which is why I'd like to see it done privately. The problem is securing the various right of way permits that would be required to cross the country. If one city doesn't play ball, then nobody gets it. This is what happened to Los Angeles' attempts at building light rail. The City of Beverly Hills, which is full of liberals who would otherwise happily subject the rest of us to cap and tax and save us from the scourge of incandescent bulbs, refused to allow a right of way through the city.

I've been subject to this indignity for a long time because I had a knee replacement 10 years ago. It sets off the metal detector. I have a card from the doc telling the date of the surgery, xray pic, but it does no good.

I'm sitting back almost amused at how people are objecting to these pat downs. I've hated it for a long time, but keep my mouth shut to avoid trouble. I get very upset, but SR always tells me to chill. Yes, those pat downs are invasive, worse depending on the agent and their training.

I think they should do the profiling and use the tactics of the Israelis. The hell with the ladies in the burkas who don't want to be checked. If I have to, they have to endure. It's better that no one has to endure this from the government.

Realistically, with the increasing security threats, we'll have to pressure the Obama administration to crack down on the perpetrators, vs the American travelling public.
I've come to the conclusion that wearing a 7th century garment and demanding 7th century standards of modesty and interaction should preclude the use of 21st century technology. If someone can't show her face or otherwise comply with US standards of identification and security, then she doesn't need to be flying, driving or doing any other modern mode of travel. She can take the camel express.

Odysseus
11-17-2010, 10:55 PM
There is one silver lining to this, and that is that now that Nancy Pelosi will be flying commercial, she'll be getting scanned and groped with the rest of us. :D

Calypso Jones
11-17-2010, 11:03 PM
no. I don't thiink our reps/senators do get held up for this stuff. Ithought i read that a day or so ago. I may be remembering incorrectly. and frankly i don't think the dem female congressman was telling the truth on getting patted down.

NJCardFan
11-17-2010, 11:15 PM
I've been subject to this indignity for a long time because I had a knee replacement 10 years ago. It sets off the metal detector. I have a card from the doc telling the date of the surgery, xray pic, but it does no good.

I'm sitting back almost amused at how people are objecting to these pat downs. I've hated it for a long time, but keep my mouth shut to avoid trouble. I get very upset, but SR always tells me to chill. Yes, those pat downs are invasive, worse depending on the agent and their training.

I think they should do the profiling and use the tactics of the Israelis. The hell with the ladies in the burkas who don't want to be checked. If I have to, they have to endure. It's better that no one has to endure this from the government.

Realistically, with the increasing security threats, we'll have to pressure the Obama administration to crack down on the perpetrators, vs the American travelling public.

Like I said, we need to make the government aware that purchasing an airline ticket doesn't mean you give up your civil liberties. The asshole who told the guy that you give up some of your rights by buying an airline ticket is just that, an asshole. The TSA is a federal operation hence it's bound by the U.S. Constitution. You can't argue that.

Odysseus
11-17-2010, 11:23 PM
Like I said, we need to make the government aware that purchasing an airline ticket doesn't mean you give up your civil liberties. The asshole who told the guy that you give up some of your rights by buying an airline ticket is just that, an asshole. The TSA is a federal operation hence it's bound by the U.S. Constitution. You can't argue that.

At the American Spectator (www.spectator.org) one of the articles on the TSA solicited this comment:


Flatulent| 11.15.10 @ 7:28AM
Before air travel, I intend to eat items that are known to give me gas. When opting out of the X-ray scan I will give the TSA groper a little chemical warfare when his hand hits the right spot.

Business idea: underwear with Fxxx You TSA sewn into it that will show up on X-ray. I think aluminum foil would work.

How many airports have Taco Bell in them? :D