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NJCardFan
11-23-2010, 09:24 AM
Yesterday was the 47th anniversary of the JFK assassination. He was the 4th U.S. president to be assassinated but he's the only one to be killed from a shooter who wasn't up close. Booth, Guiteau, and Czolgosz all did their shooting at point blank range but Kennedy was (supposedly) shot from the 6th floor of a book depository with a sniper's rifle. This is the most talked about assassination to this day because there are so many questions surrounding whether or not Oswald acted alone. The Warren Commission said he did but there are many, many flaws in their theories, most notably is the single bullet theory. As we all know, they surmised that 1 bullet caused 7 injuries on 2 men including breaking Gov. Connelly's wrist and remained in pristine which was found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital. I do believe that the kill shot came from above and not from in front only because looking at the Zapruder film, it looks as though the right front portion of Kennedy's head explodes and it's to my understanding that in rifle shots, the exit wound is the most severe. Anyway, what are your theories? Did Oswald act alone? Is Garrison right that the government conspired to kill Kennedy? Was it Cubans? The Mob? Russians? Who knows?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-23-2010, 10:55 AM
Yesterday was the 47th anniversary of the JFK assassination. He was the 4th U.S. president to be assassinated but he's the only one to be killed from a shooter who wasn't up close. Booth, Guiteau, and Czolgosz all did their shooting at point blank range but Kennedy was (supposedly) shot from the 6th floor of a book depository with a sniper's rifle. This is the most talked about assassination to this day because there are so many questions surrounding whether or not Oswald acted alone. The Warren Commission said he did but there are many, many flaws in their theories, most notably is the single bullet theory. As we all know, they surmised that 1 bullet caused 7 injuries on 2 men including breaking Gov. Connelly's wrist and remained in pristine which was found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital. I do believe that the kill shot came from above and not from in front only because looking at the Zapruder film, it looks as though the right front portion of Kennedy's head explodes and it's to my understanding that in rifle shots, the exit wound is the most severe. Anyway, what are your theories? Did Oswald act alone? Is Garrison right that the government conspired to kill Kennedy? Was it Cubans? The Mob? Russians? Who knows?

Interestingly, LBJ believed the Cubans did it. He never felt, even after leaving the presidency, that Oswald acted alone, that Oswald was likely part of an international conspiracy, and said in a (then unaired at his personal request) portion of an interview in 1969 with Cronkite that he felt neither he, nor the Warren Commission, ever truly got a clear grasp of what would motivate Oswald, "or others that could have been involved." He felt that it was retaliation for JFK trying to have Castro killed. He felt we tried to get Castro, but Castro got Kennedy first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF4_7_Emzy0

m00
11-24-2010, 02:03 AM
Anyway, what are your theories?

A good friend of my family is a former Marine, who served two tours in Vietnam. At some point during his enlistment, he qualified as an expert rifleman (I don't know how many times). Which, incidentally, is way higher than Oswald.

He was incredibly well-read and studied the assassination, and years and years ago, when discussing the issue I remember him saying there was no way in hell that Oswald could have made that shot, with that gun, at that angle, and that distance. That it simply wasn't possible. I have never heard any evidence compelling enough to refute his conviction.

So bullet trajectories aside, I think it's unlikely that Oswald shot anybody.

Molon Labe
11-24-2010, 08:19 AM
A good friend of my family is a former Marine, who served two tours in Vietnam. At some point during his enlistment, he qualified as an expert rifleman (I don't know how many times). Which, incidentally, is way higher than Oswald.

He was incredibly well-read and studied the assassination, and years and years ago, when discussing the issue I remember him saying there was no way in hell that Oswald could have made that shot, with that gun, at that angle, and that distance. That it simply wasn't possible. I have never heard any evidence compelling enough to refute his conviction.

So bullet trajectories aside, I think it's unlikely that Oswald shot anybody.

Conspiracy is fun. Check out the Ventura show on this. It was pretty interesting. The rifle Osweld alledgedly used was crap. Ventura who is an expert couldn't get three shots off in anything less than 8 seconds. No one else has been able to either.

Bailey
11-24-2010, 09:27 AM
Well I just finished COD:black opps and it shows who capped him:p:D

Starbuck
11-25-2010, 09:02 AM
............. Anyway, what are your theories? Did Oswald act alone? Is Garrison right that the government conspired to kill Kennedy? Was it Cubans? The Mob? Russians? Who knows?

Alone. Got lucky.

But you can't kill a myth with a fact. George Washington will always 'have wooden teeth'. JFK assassination will always be 'a conspiracy'.

NJCardFan
11-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Alone. Got lucky.

But you can't kill a myth with a fact. George Washington will always 'have wooden teeth'. JFK assassination will always be 'a conspiracy'.

So even though expert marksman using the same gun Oswald used can't even come close to what he supposedly did, it's a myth? How do you explain 7 wounds with 1 bullet? How was the parade route changed? Why were certain witnesses killed? There's just too much shit blowing in the wind for it not to be a conspiracy.

Kay
11-25-2010, 10:27 AM
Alone. Got lucky.

I've been up in the book depository and have looked out the very same window at the X in the street where the head shot hit. If you are ever in Dallas be sure and stop by and go on one of the walking tours, it is fascinating to put yourself in the footprints of Oswald that day.

After being there, and then watching the film again to see the apparent trajectory of the bullet that blows the back of his head out, I started leaning more toward there having been another shooter. When you stand at that window, it's easy to see that a Marine sniper could make the shot. And I think it amazingly hard but plausible that he could have gotten 3 off from that rifle in the time line. But what I can't see is how a shot from that window down to the X on the street could have gone into the head at an angle that would have blown out the back of the head. That just doesn't look feasible to me. When you look down from the window, and see where JFK was at the point of impact, Oswald was looking at the back of his head. The blow out should have been from back to front if that shot came from the window.

Then you go stand on the famed grassy knoll, and looking back at the film, a shot from there would be very consistent with the head blowing out to the back. JFK would have been facing the shooter at the impact point. I guess we will never know, but it does make you wonder.

namvet
11-25-2010, 10:52 AM
the "magic bullet" was debunked many years ago. the bullet came from the rear. the angle takes the bullet right back to the window Oswald fired from


ikIRB3lvFvw

Rockntractor
11-25-2010, 11:07 AM
Coast To Coast AM?

Kay
11-25-2010, 11:14 AM
Namvet, that bullet that hit Connelly too yes I can see exactly as in your video and that had to have come from Oswald in the window. But the second fatal shot, the head shot, is the one that I can't see coming from the window. Watch this.

dbbIjki-HLo&feature=related

The first is a miss, the second goes through JFK into Connley, and the third is the head shot. It's that third one that I was talking about above seeming like it couldn't have come from that angle and blow out the back of his head the way did.

Bubba Dawg
11-25-2010, 11:24 AM
I have a hard time believing that there was some sort of "book depository" in Texas.

I mean, what could it possibly be used for? :confused:

runs like hell from Kay...

NJCardFan
11-25-2010, 11:25 AM
the "magic bullet" was debunked many years ago. the bullet came from the rear. the angle takes the bullet right back to the window Oswald fired from


ikIRB3lvFvw
It still doesn't explain how the bullet caused 7 wounds, including breaking one of Connelly's ribs and wrist and remained in pristine condition. Some think the throat wound came from the front as well considering Kennedy grabs his throat and not his back.

Kay
11-25-2010, 11:31 AM
I have a hard time believing that there was some sort of "book depository" in Texas.

I mean, what could it possibly be used for? :confused:

runs like hell from Kay...

You can run but you can not hide.
There is no excape, not even in an angelican sport car.

Bubba Dawg
11-25-2010, 11:38 AM
You can run but you can not hide.
There is no excape, not even in an angelican sport car.

Mercy. :eek:

I'll do anything. Even root for Texas tonight against A&M. :D

namvet
11-25-2010, 11:56 AM
Namvet, that bullet that hit Connelly too yes I can see exactly as in your video and that had to have come from Oswald in the window. But the second fatal shot, the head shot, is the one that I can't see coming from the window. Watch this.

dbbIjki-HLo&feature=related

The first is a miss, the second goes through JFK into Connley, and the third is the head shot. It's that third one that I was talking about above seeming like it couldn't have come from that angle and blow out the back of his head the way did.

like you I went down there to. the tree was was still there. and probably was the reason for the the miss. but if you look at the Zapruder film its obvious the FRONT of his head explodes.

I-cri43ttTo

this is an exit wound. the bullet came from the back. entrance wounds are very small in size. but the exist wound is alway catastrophic according to ballistic experts. I stood next to the 7th floor window. frankly i did not see this as a great distance to the limo. not requiring an expert markman shot as was claimed.

add to it his military records indicate he qualified as a marksman.

furthermore I went down on the street and stood on the slab where Zapruder filmed the shot. looking back at the 7th floor it seemed to me to be a shorter distance than was claimed.

witness's who claimed the shot came from the grassy knoll later changed they're stories. destroying they're credibility as witness's.

so I think Ozwald acted alone. my opinion

NJCardFan
11-25-2010, 12:23 PM
witness's who claimed the shot came from the grassy knoll later changed they're stories. destroying they're credibility as witness's.
Because they were threatened. Other witnesses were dying left and right. Here's a list of potential key witnesses and when and how they died. A lot of murders, shootings, accidents, and stabbing. All coincidental? http://www.jfk-assassination.de/articles/deaths.php

namvet
11-25-2010, 12:44 PM
Because they were threatened. Other witnesses were dying left and right. Here's a list of potential key witnesses and when and how they died. A lot of murders, shootings, accidents, and stabbing. All coincidental? http://www.jfk-assassination.de/articles/deaths.php

but shot and murdered by who???? many dying from natual causes or accidents.

edit: the fact still remains they changed they're minds/testimony

Kay
11-25-2010, 12:56 PM
like you I went down there to. the tree was was still there. and probably was the reason for the the miss. but if you look at the Zapruder film its obvious the FRONT of his head explodes.... this is an exit wound. the bullet came from the back. entrance wounds are very small in size. but the exist wound is alway catastrophic according to ballistic experts.

If the front of his head exploded as you say, then how do you explain these autopsy photos that show his face and front still intact, with the back of his skull blown out. At that angle, if the shot came from the window the exit wound should have taken his face off. (warning, graphic photos so just posting the link):
http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html (http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html)


I stood next to the 7th floor window. frankly i did not see this as a great distance to the limo. not requiring an expert markman shot as was claimed.....looking back at the 7th floor it seemed to me to be a shorter distance than was claimed.

Me too. One of the first things I thought when I looked out the window was that I could hit that X down on the street myself. Of course he was shooting at a moving target, but with his background it looked to me like an easy shot for a Marine sharpshooter. The tree is still there, but it is a lot bigger now than it was back 47 yrs ago too. So I don't think the tree would have been an obstacle for Oswold.


so I think Ozwald acted alone. my opinion

You could very well be right. Every year this will continue to be rehashed and the only thing for sure is that it won't ever be proved concretely either way.

namvet
11-25-2010, 01:55 PM
If the front of his head exploded as you say, then how do you explain these autopsy photos that show his face and front still intact, with the back of his skull blown out. At that angle, if the shot came from the window the exit wound should have taken his face off. (warning, graphic photos so just posting the link):
http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html (http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html)



Me too. One of the first things I thought when I looked out the window was that I could hit that X down on the street myself. Of course he was shooting at a moving target, but with his background it looked to me like an easy shot for a Marine sharpshooter. The tree is still there, but it is a lot bigger now than it was back 47 yrs ago too. So I don't think the tree would have been an obstacle for Oswold.



You could very well be right. Every year this will continue to be rehashed and the only thing for sure is that it won't ever be proved concretely either way.

its difficult to compare these photos with the head shot film. but I do concede some of these could be fake. some show a lot of damage at the hairline. but the one showing the neck wound shows no damage to the head at all. but the film does not lie. the front of the head comes apart.



agreed. and I always wondered why he didn't take the high percentage shot. which is the limo coming towards him with the range closing. instead he waits till the limo turns and moves away. with the percentage decreasing with every foot of distance.

ill catch up with you later. right now im told a turkey has my name on it :D

Starbuck
11-25-2010, 06:36 PM
....... looking back at the 7th floor it seemed to me to be a shorter distance than was claimed..............so I think Ozwald acted alone. my opinion

"Less than 140 feet." No great feat.
http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/the_critics/griffith/Oswald_poor_shot.html

Kay
11-25-2010, 06:43 PM
its difficult to compare these photos with the head shot film. but I do concede some of these could be fake. some show a lot of damage at the hairline. but the one showing the neck wound shows no damage to the head at all. but the film does not lie. the front of the head comes apart.

I still don't see in the film the front of the head coming apart. It still looks like the back blowing out to me. But you are right on the autopsy photos. It was admitted to later that there were two sets. The originals as he really looked, and then the ones afterwards where he had been fixed up a little so that the public didn't see the president in such a bad state.


I always wondered why he didn't take the high percentage shot. which is the limo coming towards him with the range closing.

Perhaps his partner on the grassy knoll had that shot covered
and Oswald was the rear shooter.

Starbuck
11-25-2010, 10:29 PM
.............and I always wondered why he didn't take the high percentage shot. which is the limo coming towards him with the range closing...........

I've always thought that it was a basic cowards reflex. No balls to shoot someone who may be looking at you.

Starbuck
11-25-2010, 11:06 PM
So even though expert marksman using the same gun Oswald used can't even come close to what he supposedly did, it's a myth?
Yep. Myth:

Speculation.--Oswald could not have fired three shots from the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in 5.5 seconds.

Commission finding.--According to expert witnesses, exacting tests conducted for the Commission demonstrated that it was possible to fire three shots from the rifle within 5.5 seconds. It should be noted that the first loaded shell was already in the chamber ready for firing; Oswald had only to pull the trigger to fire the first shot and to work the bolt twice in order to fire the second and third shots. They testified that if the second shot missed, Oswald had between 4.8 and 5.6 seconds to fire the three shots. If either the first or third shot missed, Oswald had in excess of 7 seconds to fire the three shots.
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-12.html#other


How was the parade route changed?
Wasn't.

Speculation.--The motorcade route was changed on November 22 after the map had been printed. The motorcade was shifted from Main Street over to Elm Street to bring it by the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Commission finding.--The motorcade route was decided upon on November 18 and published in the Dallas newspapers on November 19. It was not changed in any way thereafter. The route called for the motorcade to turn off Main Street at Houston, go up to Elm, and then turn left on Elm Street.
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-12.html#other

Chuck58
11-26-2010, 12:19 AM
like you I went down there to. the tree was was still there. and probably was the reason for the the miss. but if you look at the Zapruder film its obvious the FRONT of his head explodes.

I-cri43ttTo

this is an exit wound. the bullet came from the back. entrance wounds are very small in size. but the exist wound is alway catastrophic according to ballistic experts. I stood next to the 7th floor window. frankly i did not see this as a great distance to the limo. not requiring an expert markman shot as was claimed.

add to it his military records indicate he qualified as a marksman.

furthermore I went down on the street and stood on the slab where Zapruder filmed the shot. looking back at the 7th floor it seemed to me to be a shorter distance than was claimed.

witness's who claimed the shot came from the grassy knoll later changed they're stories. destroying they're credibility as witness's.

so I think Ozwald acted alone. my opinion

Oswald barely qualified as Marksman, on stationary targets.

Also, the right side of Kennedy's head, approximately from just in front of his ear explodes. Bone and brain matter spray over the trunk of the car, not forward. His head snaps backward. Then, watch Jackie. She isn't trying to get away. She's collecting pieces of Kennedy's head.

I've got one of those Carcano rifles, 7.35mm which, I think, is the same as Oswald used. Bought it during a moment of insanity or lack of good judgement - take your pick. I actually fired it a few times. The action has to be one of the sloppiest I've ever used. And, accuracy is not it's strong suit. Even at less than 300 feet minute of angle groups are akin to miraculous events.

Not that it matters any more, but until someone absolutely proves otherwise, I'll continue to say there was at least one other shooter. The Warren Commission report was a whitewash. My opinion, I say Carlos Marcello, New Orleans mob boss at the time, was involved in some way and some seriously large sums of money changed hands to get the job done.

Tecate
11-26-2010, 08:14 AM
On his way out the door, Eisenhower warned all of us about the potential for the disasterous rise of misplaced power within the military industrial complex. He said the threat exists and will persist.

He's telling you that the shadow government is actually calling the shots. I've always believed that JFK got in the way of the aims of the faceless, nameless players in the shadow government and that's why he was taken out.

Every time the government rolls out the "lone nut" story, I say it's bullshit 99% of the time.

NJCardFan
11-26-2010, 11:04 AM
There are other questions like why were autopsy notes burned? Why did Kennedy's brain disappear? Why can't we see any of the important evidence and documents until the 2029? When shooting, everyone who has ever shot multiple shots knows that the first shot is the most accurate. In this assassination, the 3rd shot is the kill shot. This is a scene from the JFK movie but it's from Garrison's book On The Trail of Assassins which the movie is based on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROqXzHq09IY&feature=related[/URL]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sOX7AViZek&feature=related

Also, not coincidentally, Jim Garrison, shortly after the Shaw trial, was accused of taking bribes in order to protect illegal gambling operations in New Orleans. He was acquitted and later, his accuser was said to have concocted the whole story. And that site that listed the deaths of people allegedly involved one way or the other, you didn't find it strange the amount of plane crashes, murders, and car accidents?

Odysseus
11-26-2010, 11:30 AM
You have to follow the money. The person who stood to benefit the most from the assassination was the one with the strongest motive, and who made more money from it than Oliver Stone? He was 17 years old, and perfectly capable of going to Dallas, pulling the trigger and then getting home to NYC before anyone noticed his absence in the confusion. :rolleyes:

Chuck58
11-26-2010, 11:42 PM
You have to follow the money. The person who stood to benefit the most from the assassination was the one with the strongest motive, and who made more money from it than Oliver Stone? He was 17 years old, and perfectly capable of going to Dallas, pulling the trigger and then getting home to NYC before anyone noticed his absence in the confusion. :rolleyes:

Hmmm, I never thought of Oliver Stone. Fact is, he was probably too stoned (sorrry) then to see clearly.

Who made more money from Vietnam than Oliver Stone? Quite a few people, corporations, and so forth. Kennedy was considering withdrawing troops. Mega billions of dollars would be lost by a number of companies. Vietnam saved Bell helicopter from bankruptcy.

I still say Carlos Marcello was involved. The question is, did he act alone (he hated the Kennedys), or was he contacted by somebody else to provide or hire the shooters?

Odysseus
11-27-2010, 01:17 AM
Hmmm, I never thought of Oliver Stone. Fact is, he was probably too stoned (sorrry) then to see clearly.

Who made more money from Vietnam than Oliver Stone? Quite a few people, corporations, and so forth. Kennedy was considering withdrawing troops. Mega billions of dollars would be lost by a number of companies. Vietnam saved Bell helicopter from bankruptcy.

I still say Carlos Marcello was involved. The question is, did he act alone (he hated the Kennedys), or was he contacted by somebody else to provide or hire the shooters?

If every conspiracy theory on the JFK assassination were to be compared, then Oswald was the only one who didn't take a shot at JFK. Sorry, but sometimes a deranged lone communist assassin is a deranged lone communist assassin.

Starbuck
11-27-2010, 09:50 AM
If every conspiracy theory on the JFK assassination were to be compared, then Oswald was the only one who didn't take a shot at JFK. Sorry, but sometimes a deranged lone communist assassin is a deranged lone communist assassin.

Occam's Razor prevails again.

NJCardFan
11-27-2010, 10:10 AM
If every conspiracy theory on the JFK assassination were to be compared, then Oswald was the only one who didn't take a shot at JFK. Sorry, but sometimes a deranged lone communist assassin is a deranged lone communist assassin.

Then the government shouldn't have any problem releasing all of the documents relating to the assassination.

And I do have a question about the fatal shot that is said to have come from behind. This was already touched on but if the shot did come from behind, how did pieces of JFK's skull defy the laws of physics and end up on the trunk? Shouldn't have Connelly had brains and bone on him?

hampshirebrit
11-27-2010, 10:38 AM
I've got one of those Carcano rifles, 7.35mm which, I think, is the same as Oswald used. Bought it during a moment of insanity or lack of good judgement - take your pick. I actually fired it a few times. The action has to be one of the sloppiest I've ever used. And, accuracy is not it's strong suit. Even at less than 300 feet minute of angle groups are akin to miraculous events.


The weapon supposedly used has always been my main problem with the commission's findings.

This was a cheap mail-order rifle, apparently, and definitely not one designed with assassinations in mind. A shooter in 1963 engaged on such a mission would have had access to far better that that.

It's good to see this confirmed here by someone who has fired one.

Rockntractor
11-27-2010, 10:45 AM
I saw him at the 7-Eleven the other day buying a double shot espresso with extra cream!

Chuck58
11-27-2010, 04:58 PM
Then the government shouldn't have any problem releasing all of the documents relating to the assassination.

And I do have a question about the fatal shot that is said to have come from behind. This was already touched on but if the shot did come from behind, how did pieces of JFK's skull defy the laws of physics and end up on the trunk? Shouldn't have Connelly had brains and bone on him?

Precisely my point. Read official accounts. They say Jackie was trying to escape. She wasn't. She was collecting bits of JFK's skull, which was scattered over the trunk.

If you want more proof and, if you're lucky enough not to have witnessed a human head being hit, take an animal head out and shoot it from a hundred yards or so. If the bullet passes through it, most of the damage obviously is going to be at the exit point. The matter is going to follow the exiting bullet.

Looking at the Zapruder film, Kennedy's head recieves a hit apparently from the front right side. The right side of his head literally explodes, sending his head snapping backward toward the trunk. Bone and brain matter splatter over and land on the trunk.

This all assumes the laws of phyics weren't suspended for a few seconds on 11/22/63.

As for my Carcano rifle, 7.35mm caliber, I've owned it for nearly 40 yrs. For the past 39 yrs, it's sat in my gun case, occasionally being taken out, cleaned and oiled, and replaced. It's a sad waste of $20. It sits next to my Finnish Mosin Nagant M-28, which is maybe the ugliest rifle I own as well as perhaps the most accurate.

Starbuck
11-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Three of the physicians reported that the backward and leftward motion of the President's upper body following the head shot was caused by a "violent straightening and stiffening of the entire body as a result of a seizure-like neuromuscular reaction to major damage inflicted to nerve centers in the brain."

The report added that there was "no evidence to support the claim that President Kennedy was struck by a bullet fired from either the grassy knoll or any other position to his front, right front or right side No witness who urged the view [before the Rockefeller Commission] that the Zapruder film and other motion picture films proved that President Kennedy was struck by a bullet fired from his right front was shown to possess any professional or other special qualifications on the subject."[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_autopsy

namvet
11-27-2010, 06:58 PM
Precisely my point. Read official accounts. They say Jackie was trying to escape. She wasn't. She was collecting bits of JFK's skull, which was scattered over the trunk.

If you want more proof and, if you're lucky enough not to have witnessed a human head being hit, take an animal head out and shoot it from a hundred yards or so. If the bullet passes through it, most of the damage obviously is going to be at the exit point. The matter is going to follow the exiting bullet.

Looking at the Zapruder film, Kennedy's head recieves a hit apparently from the front right side. The right side of his head literally explodes, sending his head snapping backward toward the trunk. Bone and brain matter splatter over and land on the trunk.

This all assumes the laws of phyics weren't suspended for a few seconds on 11/22/63.

As for my Carcano rifle, 7.35mm caliber, I've owned it for nearly 40 yrs. For the past 39 yrs, it's sat in my gun case, occasionally being taken out, cleaned and oiled, and replaced. It's a sad waste of $20. It sits next to my Finnish Mosin Nagant M-28, which is maybe the ugliest rifle I own as well as perhaps the most accurate.

so your saying the shot was from the rear???


If the bullet passes through it, most of the damage obviously is going to be at the exit point. The matter is going to follow the exiting bullet.



the story goes she recovered a piece of his brain

namvet
11-27-2010, 07:15 PM
another theory. the driver did it. many claimed the fatal shot came from inside the limo. or did it???

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/overhead%20graph%20of%20JFK%20limo%20w%20occupants %20angle%20of%20fire%20importD6.jpg

A8Siab5Zvyk


VR1f6WRRhd0

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/drivergreershotjfk.shtml

sorry guys. I still say it came from the rear. from Oswalds rifle. almost everyone on the ground pointed up at the window.

hampshirebrit
11-27-2010, 07:24 PM
The most distressing parts of the Zapruder images are Jackie going back over the trunk to collect parts of her husband's head. In such extreme stress, she thought she was helping him.

It hurts to watch, and yet, I cannot not watch it.

You would have to be inhuman not to feel both outrage and pity at such a sight as that.

I hope that I will not live to see a repeat of that day.

Odysseus
11-27-2010, 07:26 PM
Then the government shouldn't have any problem releasing all of the documents relating to the assassination.
Works for me.

And I do have a question about the fatal shot that is said to have come from behind. This was already touched on but if the shot did come from behind, how did pieces of JFK's skull defy the laws of physics and end up on the trunk? Shouldn't have Connelly had brains and bone on him?
When we began BRM in basic training, the Drill Sergeants demonstrated how crappy the steel pots were at ballistic protection by putting a round through an ammo can full of water (the steel was the same type and thickness). The shot blew out the can, creating classic entrance and exit wounds, and scattered water in all directions. Everything within a 5-foot radius of Kennedy should have had brains and bone on it.

I saw him at the 7-Eleven the other day buying a double shot espresso with extra cream!
That was Elvis.

another theory. the driver did it. many claimed the fatal shot came from inside the limo. or did it???

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/overhead%20graph%20of%20JFK%20limo%20w%20occupants %20angle%20of%20fire%20importD6.jpg

A8Siab5Zvyk


VR1f6WRRhd0

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/drivergreershotjfk.shtml

sorry guys. I still say it came from the rear. from Oswalds rifle. almost everyone on the ground pointed up at the window.
If it wasn't Oswald, I stand by Oliver Stone as the most likely suspect, although Elvis, the Illuminati and the Bilderbergers are also contenders.

Chuck58
11-27-2010, 10:03 PM
so your saying the shot was from the rear???

the story goes she recovered a piece of his brain

No, front right. I can't say whether from the grassy knoll or somewhere else. To me, the hit doesn't look like something done from the knoll.

namvet
11-27-2010, 10:41 PM
the Dallas PD really screwed the pooch here. had they sealed off that building Oswald is trapped like a rat. then the fiasco in the garage. allowiing Ruby to get in. big lessons learned here.

also Kennedy help seal his own fate by over ruling the SS on the rag top limo.

Jackie was one brave woman that day. how she stood up to all that is beyond me.

she also knew about his whores. at a state dinner she made sure one of them was sitting right next to him. really pissed him off. but it was her suble way of saying i know just what your up to.

Starbuck
11-27-2010, 11:19 PM
The most distressing parts of the Zapruder images are Jackie going back over the trunk to collect parts of her husband's head. In such extreme stress, she thought she was helping him.

It hurts to watch, and yet, I cannot not watch it.

You would have to be inhuman not to feel both outrage and pity at such a sight as that.

I hope that I will not live to see a repeat of that day.

That was absolutely heartbreaking, wasn't it? Thankfully, she did not remember doing it. I think it was a bit of a stretch to say she was helping him, though. Just blind panic.

Hill jumped from the follow-up car and ran to the President's automobile. At about the time he reached the President's automobile, Hill heard a second shot, approximately 5 seconds after the first, which removed a portion of the President's head.163

At the instant that Hill stepped onto the left rear step of the President's automobile and grasped the handhold, the car lurched forward, causing him to lose his footing. He ran three or four steps, regained his position and mounted the car. Between the time he originally seized the handhold and the time he mounted the car, Hill recalled:

Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the fight rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.164



David Powers, who witnessed the scene from the President's follow-up car, stated that Mrs. Kennedy would probably have fallen off the rear end of the car and been killed if Hill had not pushed her back into the Presidential automobile.165 Mrs. Kennedy had no recollection of climbing onto the back of the car.
From The Warren Commission Report: Page 51
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-2.html#reaction

CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-28-2010, 07:30 AM
Here is what I don't get, on Jackie's part.
Why, as soon as the first bullet hit his throat, didn't she grab him and pull him down?
If someone next to me was struck by a bullet and there was blood flowing out of their throat, I'd use all my strength to pull them out. She had to see him gurgling and the blood staining his collar. If she had pulled him down, he might have lived. I don't think the throat wound was fatal. I've read that he went unconscious right after the throat wound hit, which is why his hands drop (before the head shot).

What killed him was the back brace. That's why with the first shot he doesn't fall down. The back brace he had was to help his fucked up back, and instead it held him upright and made him basically a non-moving target for that scumbag Oswald.

I do feel bad for Jackie, and always will.

Starbuck
11-28-2010, 09:31 AM
Here is what I don't get, on Jackie's part.
Why, as soon as the first bullet hit his throat, didn't she grab him and pull him down?
If someone next to me was struck by a bullet and there was blood flowing out of their throat, I'd use all my strength to pull them out. She had to see him gurgling and the blood staining his collar. If she had pulled him down, he might have lived. I don't think the throat wound was fatal. I've read that he went unconscious right after the throat wound hit, which is why his hands drop (before the head shot).

What killed him was the back brace. That's why with the first shot he doesn't fall down. The back brace he had was to help his fucked up back, and instead it held him upright and made him basically a non-moving target for that scumbag Oswald.

I do feel bad for Jackie, and always will.
You'd probably enjoy reading The Warren Commission Report. You'll find that at the hospital she was reluctant to surrender him to the medical team.
The throat shot was indeed thought to have been non-fatal.

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/

Kay
11-28-2010, 10:03 AM
Here is what I don't get, on Jackie's part.
Why, as soon as the first bullet hit his throat, didn't she grab him and pull him down?
If someone next to me was struck by a bullet and there was blood flowing out of their throat, I'd use all my strength to pull them out.

I don't think you can fault her for that at all. Being shot at was the very last thing on her mind that day, she turned that worry over to the Secret Service. Then you have to remember she was a civilian woman and I doubt had ever seen a person shot before. There are just mere seconds between the first shot that hits him and the next. When he slumps over towards Jackie she leans in to grab him, but I'm sure her mind didn't even have time to process what was going on before the head shot hits. By the time she figures out he's not just fainted, but is bleeding also, brains are flying everywhere. She reacted as quick and normally as you could expect her to act in that situation.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
11-28-2010, 10:11 AM
I don't think you can fault her for that at all. Being shot at was the very last thing on her mind that day, she turned that worry over to the Secret Service. Then you have to remember she was a civilian woman and I doubt had ever seen a person shot before. There are just mere seconds between the first shot that hits him and the next. When he slumps over towards Jackie she leans in to grab him, but I'm sure her mind didn't even have time to process what was going on before the head shot hits. By the time she figures out he's not just fainted, but is bleeding also, brains are flying everywhere. She reacted as quick and normally as you could expect her to act in that situation.

True. What I feel is most terrible about it is that she was just leaning in at him, almost looking him in the face, when the head shot came. She literally was looking him in the face as he was killed. That is so goddamn terrible.

Did you know he was buried on his son's 3rd birthday?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1223/1054178032_1dfe49d479.jpg

His last hours in Fort Worth seem very suspicious, by the way...There's a video of his last speech from that morning and the Host says some very weird and suspicious things.