djones520
11-28-2010, 12:05 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9640804
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:41 PM
Original message
HELP! I'm arguing with a right-winger on facebook...
Advertisements [?]I'm not knowledgeable enough to fight back. I'd given the link to Wikipedia about the topic of the separation of church and state. I cannot answer him...
Has Congress ever made a law establishing a state religion? NO. Does the Constitution have the phrase "separation of church and state" in it? NO. This part of the Constitution (not Wikipedia) was meant to prevent Congress from creating a national religion (like the Church of England). I suggest you study the original document and not just rely on things you've heard from people who have no clue what they're talking about. Including a past, activist Supreme Court.
This should be good.
Xipe Totec (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Try this:
Stop.
ROFL
The Velveteen Ocelot (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. You could start with the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams in 1797.
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 08:51 PM by The Velveteen Ocelot
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
And then there's the Supreme Court's holding in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947):
"The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State.""
This should help. You might remind them that it's the Supreme Court's job to interpret the Constitution -- and it's not up to them (your right-wing correspondents) to blow off the Court's interpretations because they don't like "liberal" judges. Under our system of government, the Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means, whether they (or we) like it or not.
That is exactly what that Freeper said idiot. :rolleyes:
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, thanks everybody!
I'm overwhelmed at your knowledge, and embarrassed at my lack.
Thank you so much...
Peggy... that statement is so sad. Just so sad, to be in awe of the "knowledge" of DU because of your lack of it. :(
Maybe I should buy you a star to make you feel better.
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:41 PM
Original message
HELP! I'm arguing with a right-winger on facebook...
Advertisements [?]I'm not knowledgeable enough to fight back. I'd given the link to Wikipedia about the topic of the separation of church and state. I cannot answer him...
Has Congress ever made a law establishing a state religion? NO. Does the Constitution have the phrase "separation of church and state" in it? NO. This part of the Constitution (not Wikipedia) was meant to prevent Congress from creating a national religion (like the Church of England). I suggest you study the original document and not just rely on things you've heard from people who have no clue what they're talking about. Including a past, activist Supreme Court.
This should be good.
Xipe Totec (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Try this:
Stop.
ROFL
The Velveteen Ocelot (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. You could start with the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams in 1797.
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 08:51 PM by The Velveteen Ocelot
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
And then there's the Supreme Court's holding in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947):
"The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State.""
This should help. You might remind them that it's the Supreme Court's job to interpret the Constitution -- and it's not up to them (your right-wing correspondents) to blow off the Court's interpretations because they don't like "liberal" judges. Under our system of government, the Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means, whether they (or we) like it or not.
That is exactly what that Freeper said idiot. :rolleyes:
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-27-10 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, thanks everybody!
I'm overwhelmed at your knowledge, and embarrassed at my lack.
Thank you so much...
Peggy... that statement is so sad. Just so sad, to be in awe of the "knowledge" of DU because of your lack of it. :(
Maybe I should buy you a star to make you feel better.