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View Full Version : Hybrid cars: If the public won’t buy ‘em, the Obama administration will



PoliCon
11-29-2010, 12:14 PM
November 29, 2010 · 2 comments

First the government buys General Motors. Then they require the company to build electric cars that the public doesn’t want and won’t buy. So how can the government paper over this fiscal fiasco? By purchasing the cars from itself, of course.

In the words of Aretha Franklin, who’s zoomin’ who?

Fox News has the details of the government-created demand for government-created products:


President Barack Obama’s administration has bought almost a fourth of the Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co. hybrid vehicles sold since he took office, accelerating federal purchases as consumer demand wanes.

The U.S. General Services Administration, which runs the government fleet, bought at least 14,584 hybrid vehicles in the past two fiscal years, or about 10 percent of 145,473 vehicles the agency purchased in that period, according to sales data obtained by Bloomberg under a Freedom of Information Act request. In fiscal 2008, hybrids accounted for less than 1 percent of government purchases, the data showed.

The government is boosting investment in a technology that has failed to win broad acceptance after more than a decade in the marketplace. Consumer sales of hybrids are headed for their third consecutive yearly decline. Government agencies and businesses have said they also will purchase all-electric models being introduced by automakers including GM.

“At some point, the reality is that for this technology to be accepted, it needs to be done without a government crutch,” said Jeff Schuster, director of forecasting at J.D. Power & Associates in Troy, Michigan. “But without a huge gas-price increase or further government demand, the natural demand just isn’t to be there.”

To complete the story, it should be pointed out that Government Motors does have one other big customer in addition to itself.

General Electric, which makes the recharging stations for electric cars and who also received a big pile of stimulus money, has announced that it will buy a fleet of electric cars.

Can anyone say, “Shell game.”

Source: Fox News

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/hybrid-cars-if-the-public-wont-buy-em-the-obama-administration-will

Gingersnap
11-29-2010, 12:41 PM
People don't want hybrids. People want hydrogen fuel cells.

PoliCon
11-29-2010, 12:46 PM
People don't want hybrids. People want hydrogen fuel cells.

I want cheap gas.

noonwitch
11-29-2010, 01:01 PM
I want cheap gas.



You are never going to have it again.

I've seen some Volts being driven around Detroit. They look like nice enough cars. I have no idea how well they drive, though.

marv
11-29-2010, 01:04 PM
No matter which way they are sold, the public "buys" them!

lacarnut
11-29-2010, 01:28 PM
You are never going to have it again.

I've seen some Volts being driven around Detroit. They look like nice enough cars. I have no idea how well they drive, though.

At a MSRP of $41k, they look like crap just like the Prius. The Volt cost 1 billion dollars for research and development. It will doom GM. BTW, Toyota loses money on everyone they sell and undercuts the price of the Volt by several thousand dollars.

lacarnut
11-29-2010, 01:35 PM
I want cheap gas.

Gas is cheap compared to other products such as milk, orange juice, etc. Gas prices across the pond are almost double what they are here.

Gingersnap
11-29-2010, 01:45 PM
I want cheap gas.

I want no gas - that's why I want hydrogen fuel cells. :)

PoliCon
11-29-2010, 02:08 PM
I want no gas - that's why I want hydrogen fuel cells. :)

But hydrogen fuel cells don't allow me to stomp down a huge carbon footprint though. :(

marv
11-29-2010, 03:43 PM
By volume, gasoline has more power than even dynamite. Don't even think of an electric eighteen wheeler hauling your necessities from a warehouse to retail stores in places where railroads don't run.

As for the hydrogen fuel cell, better read this (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/fuel-cell5.htm) first. And it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than hydrogen can deliver as an energy source. Hydrogen does not exist in it's natural state on Earth, so it has to be manufactured.

Remember that the object is to convert an energy source, any source, into mechanical motion...and do it as cheaply as possible, and in as compact a mode as possible.

My 2¢.......

Gingersnap
11-29-2010, 04:53 PM
By volume, gasoline has more power than even dynamite. Don't even think of an electric eighteen wheeler hauling your necessities from a warehouse to retail stores in places where railroads don't run.

As for the hydrogen fuel cell, better read this (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/fuel-cell5.htm) first. And it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than hydrogen can deliver as an energy source. Hydrogen does not exist in it's natural state on Earth, so it has to be manufactured.

Remember that the object is to convert an energy source, any source, into mechanical motion...and do it as cheaply as possible, and in as compact a mode as possible.

My 2¢.......

Better read this:

Hydrogen refueling ramps up in Norway
November 26, 2010 | Ciara Byrne
6 Comments

A new hydrogen refueling station supplied by the Danish company H2 Logic will be installed just outside Oslo, Norway in summer 2011 as part of Norway’s “hydrogen highway“. Together with another planned Oslo hydrogen station in 2011, this means Norway will have one of the world’s densest hydrogen refueling networks.

Hydrogen is produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is compressed and stored in the vehicle. Most hydrogen vehicles react hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell to run electric motors. So effectively a fuel-cell vehicle is a form of electric vehicle.

Pike Research predicts that 37 percent of the 2.8 million fuel-cell vehicles sold by 2020 will be in Western Europe, 36 percent will be in the Asia-Pacific region and just 25 percent will be in North America. Several major automakers have recently announced their intentions to get fuel-cell models into showrooms by 2015.

However, in 2009 the U.S. Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu announced that fuel cell hydrogen vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years” and that the U.S. government would cut off funds for development of such vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles have also been criticized as being more costly and less efficient at reducing carbon emissions than alternatives.

Norway opened its first hydrogen station in Stavanger in 2003. Since then, an additional three stations have opened, and 20 hydrogen vehicles have been put into operation. Similar efforts are underway in Sweden and Denmark through a joint collaboration effort called Scandinavian Hydrogen Highway Partnership (SHHP).

The SHHP plans to have at least 15 hydrogen stations in place by 2015. Presently seven stations are in operation and a further three stations are under construction. The public support for R&D and demonstration of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies in Scandinavia is in the range of €40-50 million ($53-66 million) per year. In Norway and Denmark there is no car registration tax on hydrogen vehicles. Normally, car registration taxes can be up to 180% of the base vehicle price. ;)

lacarnut
11-29-2010, 05:53 PM
Just another hair brain greenie idea that will raise the cost of autos. If the morons in DC would like to reduce cost of fuel and emissions, it would support the use of natural gas. We have more than we could ever use. It is cheap and the price has stagnated for years until recently. The Asians use it in their vehicles. But no, they would rather come up with screwball ideas like Ethanol, electric, hybrids, etc. Most of these POS cars and fuels would not be manufactured if the government did not subsidize them. However, we are not as screwed up as the Scandinavians. Buy a Hydrogen fueled car and you will not have to pay the usual 180% over the price of a regular car. Wow....what an incentive.:eek:

Gingersnap
11-29-2010, 08:10 PM
Just another hair brain greenie idea that will raise the cost of autos. If the morons in DC would like to reduce cost of fuel and emissions, it would support the use of natural gas. We have more than we could ever use. It is cheap and the price has stagnated for years until recently. The Asians use it in their vehicles. But no, they would rather come up with screwball ideas like Ethanol, electric, hybrids, etc. Most of these POS cars and fuels would not be manufactured if the government did not subsidize them. However, we are not as screwed up as the Scandinavians. Buy a Hydrogen fueled car and you will not have to pay the usual 180% over the price of a regular car. Wow....what an incentive.:eek:

For them, it is. Of course, no Scandinavian country is all that big and almost all the population is concentrated in a few areas. They don't have the travel challenges that Americans have.

Still, it's a great test for hydrogen fuel cell cars and I wish them well.

marv
11-29-2010, 08:58 PM
Better read this:
;)
I read it...

However, in 2009 the U.S. Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu announced that fuel cell hydrogen vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years” and that the U.S. government would cut off funds for development of such vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles have also been criticized as being more costly and less efficient at reducing carbon emissions than alternatives.
Remember that in Norway all taxpayers who are not on the dole pay for everybody else's groceries who are on the dole. Further, Norway is not Kansas, and there's not much of a market for fur coats in Burma. Capisca?