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Zafod
12-06-2010, 12:35 PM
If being gay is natural then why do gay couples always seem to assume a male- female set of roles?

every dyke couple I see has one woman who wears makeup and trys to be pretty and the other tries their best to look like a man....

I dont get it. If its natural to be woman on woman wouldnt they both be well feminine?

NJCardFan
12-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Not all. I've seen bull dyke couples and I've known "lipstick lesbian" couples. I've also known "flamer" gay couples and butch gay couples. But I do see your point that there a lot of gay couples that have traditional "male/female" roles.

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:06 PM
Not all. I've seen bull dyke couples and I've known "lipstick lesbian" couples. I've also known "flamer" gay couples and butch gay couples. But I do see your point that there a lot of gay couples that have traditional "male/female" roles.

even the lipstick and bull dyke couples have a male female role thing going on....

djones520
12-06-2010, 01:12 PM
Nature and Nurture? It's in their nature to be with the same sex, but they have been nurtured to the male/female roll.

noonwitch
12-06-2010, 01:28 PM
My gay cousin and her partner are not exactly bull dykes, but neither one is a lipstick lesbian. The look like retired women who don't bother with frilly clothes and makeup now that they are no longer working. Of course, neither of them are publicly gay, they are just two old friends who bought a house together.

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Nature and Nurture? It's in their nature to be with the same sex, but they have been nurtured to the male/female roll.

nurtured? so why even go to the lengths of a evolutionary dead end but keep the roles? Why not just cut to the real thing and have the bonus to procreate?

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:29 PM
My gay cousin and her partner are not exactly bull dykes, but neither one is a lipstick lesbian. The look like retired women who don't bother with frilly clothes and makeup now that they are no longer working. Of course, neither of them are publicly gay, they are just two old friends who bought a house together.

and I bet 500.00 that they have roles that they play.

djones520
12-06-2010, 01:34 PM
nurtured? so why even go to the lengths of a evolutionary dead end but keep the roles? Why not just cut to the real thing and have the bonus to procreate?

Because they can't. Just like you cannot fathom yourself having a relationship with another man.

CueSi
12-06-2010, 01:41 PM
Hm.

I never really play a role when I'm dating a woman. I'm always naturally aggressive and not strictly a dyke ( I DO wear mens shirts and ties sometimes) OR Lipstick (I wear makeup 60% of the time, but it's not essential).

But I act the same way when I date men too...some men are less aggressive and will leave me to my fantasy football, war movies, and gadgets. . .would you call THEM feminine?

~QC

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Because they can't. Just like you cannot fathom yourself having a relationship with another man.

I cant because of a number of reasons.

But again why have the relationship that you are going to model after male female roles in the first place?

AmPat
12-06-2010, 01:43 PM
Hm.

But I act the same way when I date men too...some men are less aggressive and will leave me to my fantasy football, war movies, and gadgets. . .would you call THEM feminine?

~QC

Dunno, do they speak with a lssssppp?:p

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Dunno, do they speak with a lssssppp?:p

lol

Zafod
12-06-2010, 01:55 PM
Hm.

I never really play a role when I'm dating a woman. I'm always naturally aggressive and not strictly a dyke ( I DO wear mens shirts and ties sometimes) OR Lipstick (I wear makeup 60% of the time, but it's not essential).

But I act the same way when I date men too...some men are less aggressive and will leave me to my fantasy football, war movies, and gadgets. . .would you call THEM feminine?

~QC

maybe. Do you dominate them?

CueSi
12-06-2010, 01:55 PM
I cant because of a number of reasons.

But again why have the relationship that you are going to model after male female roles in the first place?

As much as I hate the term for it's mealy mouthed academic PC reputation. . . you're seeing it from a heteronormative point of view -- that basic male/female dichotomy. This pattern of aggressive/retiring is in ALOT of relationships... I'm sure theres a more dominant person in your circle of friends, a pecking order. This is common in single sex environments as well as co-ed situations.

But once you throw in sex, people go to what they know in viewing what they don't understand.

~QC

CueSi
12-06-2010, 01:59 PM
maybe. Do you dominate them?

No.


Dunno, do they speak with a lssssppp?:p

No.

Not all straight guys are alike. Some guys are going to be traditional. Some aren't. I've been all over the map as to the type of partner I turn out to be: I've been the June Cleaver, and I've been the tomboy and everywhere in between. I don't dominate.

~QC

Zafod
12-06-2010, 02:11 PM
No.



No.

Not all straight guys are alike. Some guys are going to be traditional. Some aren't. I've been all over the map as to the type of partner I turn out to be: I've been the June Cleaver, and I've been the tomboy and everywhere in between. I don't dominate.

~QC

but they let you take control right. Maybe you dominate and you dont know it?

Constitutionally Speaking
12-06-2010, 02:32 PM
Because they can't. Just like you cannot fathom yourself having a relationship with another man.

I think everyone knows I have a gay sister - & that I love both her and her partner dearly. But I still have trouble believing this line of thinking. I am not willing to state definitively either side of this argument, but I struggle believing that it is entirely a nature thing in the nature/nurture argument. :confused:

djones520
12-06-2010, 02:37 PM
I think everyone knows I have a gay sister - & that I love both her and her partner dearly. But I still have trouble believing this line of thinking. I am not willing to state definitively either side of this argument, but I struggle believing that it is entirely a nature thing in the nature/nurture argument. :confused:

Have you ever really discussed it with her? Just curious.

noonwitch
12-06-2010, 03:25 PM
I think everyone knows I have a gay sister - & that I love both her and her partner dearly. But I still have trouble believing this line of thinking. I am not willing to state definitively either side of this argument, but I struggle believing that it is entirely a nature thing in the nature/nurture argument. :confused:



I think that for some people, it is a totally nature thing to be gay. One of the younger guys who used to work at my office has known he was gay since he was 10 or so. His parents didn't encourage it, he wasn't abused as a kid, and that is just who he is. My BIL's sister has been pretty sure she was gay since she was pretty young.

Where I question the nature aspect is when that person was sexually abused as a child. I'm not saying that sexually abusing children makes them gay as adults, but to deny that it could be a factor in determining a client's sexual orientation is providing them with politically correct counseling that may not meet their overall needs.

Odysseus
12-06-2010, 03:39 PM
but they let you take control right. Maybe you dominate and you dont know it?

The riding crop is always a dead giveaway. :D

Zafod
12-06-2010, 03:55 PM
The riding crop is always a dead giveaway. :D

lol

CueSi
12-06-2010, 04:35 PM
but they let you take control right. Maybe you dominate and you dont know it?

lf you could call it that... but a couple of partners (my ex is definately one) was the more aggressive partner. He would veto sex if he didn't want. But usually I got to decide if we were going out that night.

And sometimes, I could cajole sex or favors out of it...I have a corset called the, "I-want-shit" corset. :D

~QC

AmPat
12-06-2010, 07:03 PM
No.



No.

Not all straight guys are alike. Some guys are going to be traditional. Some aren't. I've been all over the map as to the type of partner I turn out to be: I've been the June Cleaver, and I've been the tomboy and everywhere in between. I don't dominate.

~QCYou madam, are a chameleon.

Madisonian
12-06-2010, 07:16 PM
I still have not been able to decide the nature versus nurture in my mind.
The one thing that always seems to always swing it somewhat to the nature side for me is why anyone would willingly put up with all the hassle if there was not a strong driving force.

Think about all the negatives said about homosexuals on this board in just the last week and could you imagine choosing to put up with that on an almost daily basis for years just to have sex with someone of the same gender as you are? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

On the other hand, nature would not explain bi-sexuality which seems to be a "any port in the storm" position driven by more by narcissism and availability than by genetics.

But I am not turned on by girl on girl porn as some of the more vocally macho hear appear to claim to be so who really knows?

CueSi
12-06-2010, 07:43 PM
I still have not been able to decide the nature versus nurture in my mind.
The one thing that always seems to always swing it somewhat to the nature side for me is why anyone would willingly put up with all the hassle if there was not a strong driving force.

Think about all the negatives said about homosexuals on this board in just the last week and could you imagine choosing to put up with that on an almost daily basis for years just to have sex with someone of the same gender as you are? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

On the other hand, nature would not explain bi-sexuality which seems to be a "any port in the storm" position driven by more by narcissism and availability than by genetics.

But I am not turned on by girl on girl porn as some of the more vocally macho hear appear to claim to be so who really knows?

Some bisexuals ARE any port in a storm types...I know plenty people that are like that. Me, I simply take male/female out of my consideration of sexual partners. If someones character, personality and general style appeal to me, I will be interested. Sometimes I'll find more interesting partners among women, sometimes among men.

Narcissist? Nah. Avaliability... I'll admit sometimes that figures into it, but most times, I'd rather go without than settle..which is what I'm doing now.

~QC

m00
12-06-2010, 08:45 PM
But I act the same way when I date men too...some men are less aggressive and will leave me to my fantasy football, war movies, and gadgets. . .would you call THEM feminine?

~QC

I'd say you are dating the wrong men.

m00
12-06-2010, 08:46 PM
Think about all the negatives said about homosexuals on this board in just the last week and could you imagine choosing to put up with that on an almost daily basis for years just to have sex with someone of the same gender as you are? Does not make a lot of sense to me.

Not saying it's nature or nurture, but lots of people make choices which don't make sense to me. Why would someone get 20 piercings in their face and then complain they can't get a job?

Bubba Dawg
12-06-2010, 11:31 PM
No.



No.

Not all straight guys are alike. Some guys are going to be traditional. Some aren't. I've been all over the map as to the type of partner I turn out to be: I've been the June Cleaver, and I've been the tomboy and everywhere in between. I don't dominate.

~QC

I kinda figured you'd contrast June Cleaver with Beaver Cleaver......:D

Wei Wu Wei
12-07-2010, 07:45 PM
I think this thread really hilights the fact that gender is far more than your biological toolbox.

It seems Zafod is asserting that dominance is a male trait, a basic perception in a patriarchal society.

Although sexuality is extremely fluid, gender is a more fundamental concept, and thus responsible for more structuring of your experience of reality. Hell there are systems of thought that attribute a Male and Female role to the entire universe (Yin and Yang as the constituents of the flow of reality)

CueSi
12-08-2010, 01:47 AM
I'd say you are dating the wrong men.

There is an argument made for that. South Florida has a poor male-to-female ratio. Throw in that the numbers ARE against black women, period. Plus with my social and work history (ex-exotic dancer, unfinished college education, etc.), my choices will be limited. But I make do with what I have and try to make my stock into... as close to blue-chip as possible.


I kinda figured you'd contrast June Cleaver with Beaver Cleaver......:D

Naw, too easy. Even drunk posting it's too easy. :D

~QC