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PoliCon
12-09-2010, 03:04 PM
A dying person's last words are often, and perhaps too easily, held out as the key to understanding all that went before, and so it has been with Elizabeth Edwards.

Her final public message, posted on Facebook, was characteristically eloquent, to the point, and full of grace -- that last word being one that Edwards herself often invoked, and one that was often applied to her, especially as she bore up under so many trials, the last of them the cancer that claimed her life on Tuesday.

But the opening line of her public farewell was especially notable for its careful phrasing (Edwards, who did post-graduate work in literature, was, after all, a student of the novelist Henry James) about matters of the soul:

*

"You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces -- my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope," Edwards wrote.

That she seemed to carefully evade a mention of God or Jesus or things eternal and Christian was striking, and it struck some as "odd," in the words of "American Power" blogger and neocon Donald Douglas.

"I can't say what it is -- spiritual or otherwise -- that animates her sense of grace, but it's not God," Douglas wrote before proceeding to add some even less graceful conjecture.

elizabeth edwards"Being anti-religion is cool, so Edwards' non-theological theology gets props from the neo-communists," he said. "Still, at her death bed and giving what most folks are calling a final goodbye, Elizabeth Edwards couldn't find it somewhere down deep to ask for His blessings as she prepares for the hereafter? I guess that nihilism I've been discussing reaches up higher into the hard-left precincts than I thought."

Douglas drew some sharp critiques in the comments on his post but also strong support, and even in the report on the faith angle at Christianity Today -- the leading mainstream evangelical publication -- some commenters rued Edwards' apparent lack of orthodox Christian faith.

But a closer look at the faith of Elizabeth Edwards offers a more nuanced view, and one that might elicit more charity from those who would judge her at her death.

What seems clear above all is that Edwards' late-in-life spirituality was forged by the flames of unspeakable heartache, from the death of her 16-year-old son, Wade, in a car accident in 1996 to the faithlessness of her husband, John Edwards, who ran for president in 2008 and thrust his wife into the public spotlight while he betrayed her with a private affair. And of course, there was the cancer that since 2004 ravaged her body and also shaped her theology.

As Adele M. Stan recounted in a July 2007 profile of Edwards for the liberal journal the American Prospect, Edwards told audiences that she "grew up in the Christian tradition" and attended a Methodist church with her husband, but that during her early years as a child in Japan -- her father was a Navy pilot, so the family moved around -- "I grew up with Shintos and Buddhists."

That Eastern influence seemed to emerge as Edwards faced her illness:

"I have, I think, somewhat of an odd version of God," Edwards explained to an audience of women bloggers when asked how her beliefs inform her politics. "I do not have an intervening God. I don't think I can pray to him -- or her -- to cure me of cancer."

CONTINUED (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/08/why-elizabeth-edwards-left-god-out-of-her-last-goodbye/)

megimoo
12-09-2010, 03:10 PM
A dying person's last words are often, and perhaps too easily, held out as the key to understanding all that went before, and so it has been with Elizabeth Edwards.

Her final public message, posted on Facebook, was characteristically eloquent, to the point, and full of grace -- that last word being one that Edwards herself often invoked, and one that was often applied to her, especially as she bore up under so many trials, the last of them the cancer that claimed her life on Tuesday.

But the opening line of her public farewell was especially notable for its careful phrasing (Edwards, who did post-graduate work in literature, was, after all, a student of the novelist Henry James) about matters of the soul:

*

"You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces -- my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope," Edwards wrote.

That she seemed to carefully evade a mention of God or Jesus or things eternal and Christian was striking, and it struck some as "odd," in the words of "American Power" blogger and neocon Donald Douglas.

"I can't say what it is -- spiritual or otherwise -- that animates her sense of grace, but it's not God," Douglas wrote before proceeding to add some even less graceful conjecture.

elizabeth edwards"Being anti-religion is cool, so Edwards' non-theological theology gets props from the neo-communists," he said. "Still, at her death bed and giving what most folks are calling a final goodbye, Elizabeth Edwards couldn't find it somewhere down deep to ask for His blessings as she prepares for the hereafter? I guess that nihilism I've been discussing reaches up higher into the hard-left precincts than I thought."

Douglas drew some sharp critiques in the comments on his post but also strong support, and even in the report on the faith angle at Christianity Today -- the leading mainstream evangelical publication -- some commenters rued Edwards' apparent lack of orthodox Christian faith.

But a closer look at the faith of Elizabeth Edwards offers a more nuanced view, and one that might elicit more charity from those who would judge her at her death.

What seems clear above all is that Edwards' late-in-life spirituality was forged by the flames of unspeakable heartache, from the death of her 16-year-old son, Wade, in a car accident in 1996 to the faithlessness of her husband, John Edwards, who ran for president in 2008 and thrust his wife into the public spotlight while he betrayed her with a private affair. And of course, there was the cancer that since 2004 ravaged her body and also shaped her theology.

As Adele M. Stan recounted in a July 2007 profile of Edwards for the liberal journal the American Prospect, Edwards told audiences that she "grew up in the Christian tradition" and attended a Methodist church with her husband, but that during her early years as a child in Japan -- her father was a Navy pilot, so the family moved around -- "I grew up with Shintos and Buddhists."

That Eastern influence seemed to emerge as Edwards faced her illness:

"I have, I think, somewhat of an odd version of God," Edwards explained to an audience of women bloggers when asked how her beliefs inform her politics. "I do not have an intervening God. I don't think I can pray to him -- or her -- to cure me of cancer."

CONTINUED (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/08/why-elizabeth-edwards-left-god-out-of-her-last-goodbye/)
What a sad way to die.Without hope,without GOD .Perhaps he will forgive her ignorance and welcome her !

Gingersnap
12-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Or maybe a Facebook farewell isn't really the place where serious-minded people discuss deeply meaningful private thoughts. ;)

megimoo
12-09-2010, 04:32 PM
Or maybe a Facebook farewell isn't really the place where serious-minded people discuss deeply meaningful private thoughts. ;)Some People have a real life without Facebook !

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 05:05 PM
What a sad way to die.Without hope,without GOD .Perhaps he will forgive her ignorance and welcome her !

Not under Christian theology, as I understand it. I have been told quite often that to get into heaven she would have had to accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour.

It is entirely possible she made this accommodation with Jesus without making the public aware of it on FB. It is also possible that she did not post it on FB, because she did not make the necessary arrangements with Jesus.

If the latter really is the case, there will no welcome from god for her.

megimoo
12-09-2010, 05:25 PM
Not under Christian theology, as I understand it. I have been told quite often that to get into heaven she would have had to accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour.

It is entirely possible she made this accommodation with Jesus without making the public aware of it on FB. It is also possible that she did not post it on FB, because she did not make the necessary arrangements with Jesus.

If the latter really is the case, there will no welcome from god for her.
We have no way of knowing all that GOD has before us.Perhaps he will offer a final choice and she will profess her belief in The Christ ? Remember that GOD is all merciful and has no wish to see us in Hell ,You really have to want it !

CueSi
12-09-2010, 05:25 PM
Or maybe a Facebook farewell isn't really the place where serious-minded people discuss deeply meaningful private thoughts. ;)


Yeah. Let's go with that. I don't want to judge this.

~QC

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 05:27 PM
Perhaps he will offer a final choice and she will profess her belief in The Christ ? Remember that GOD is all merciful and has no wish to see us in Hell ,You really have to want it !

Highly unlikely, but possible.

megimoo
12-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Highly unlikely, but possible.You're not as bad as you think .He may even have a 914-6 up there for you ?

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 05:34 PM
Or maybe a Facebook farewell isn't really the place where serious-minded people discuss deeply meaningful private thoughts. ;)

She took the time to share this - why not share about Christ if that was important to her? I also noticed that while John has Methodist listed as his faith on wikipedia - she has nothing listed . . . . To me if nothing else it shows the difference between how conservatives and leftists view faith.

CueSi
12-09-2010, 05:37 PM
She took the time to share this - why not share about Christ if that was important to her?

Some people think that their faith is private. And consider her previous brushes with the more unhinged wing of the Democratic party, I'd be keeping that to myself too if I were her.

Yes, rules say yer not supposed to, but . . . spirit is willing,flesh is... and the rest of it.

~QC

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 05:38 PM
You're not as bad as you think .He may even have a 914-6 up there for you ?

A nice pristine 356 would be better appreciated, or a Carrera GT, or if he's really serous, both. :D

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 05:49 PM
Some people think that their faith is private. And consider her previous brushes with the more unhinged wing of the Democratic party, I'd be keeping that to myself too if I were her.

Yes, rules say yer not supposed to, but . . . spirit is willing,flesh is... and the rest of it.

~QC

perhaps. Either way I found the article interesting and have only found this http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_original_theology_of_elizabet h_edwards as any kind of reference for what she believed theologically.

Gingersnap
12-09-2010, 05:54 PM
She took the time to share this - why not share about Christ if that was important to her? I also noticed that while John has Methodist listed as his faith on wikipedia - she has nothing listed . . . . To me if nothing else it shows the difference between how conservatives and leftists view faith.

She posted her final Status Update on Facebook - a move that probably had more to do with her public persona as the dying wife of a failed political cheater than it did with the heartfelt expressions of love and hope that were no doubt reserved for her family.

Many people use Facebook as a publicity tool. It's the 21st century equivalent of a classified ad or Social Notes piece. While you might mention your upcoming terminal illness, you might not think to use it to express your private thoughts about God, death, and Pascal's Wager.

I'd rather leave the poor woman alone than speculate on the last thoughts and desires of an obviously very complex individual.

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 05:55 PM
Actually, I have to say that I find her last public words and the sentiment they contain very honorable.


"I appreciate other people's prayers for that [a cure for her cancer], but I believe that we are given a set of guidelines, and that we are obligated to live our lives with a view to those guidelines. And I don't believe that we should live our lives that way for some promise of eternal life, but because that's what's right. We should do those things because that's what's right."

Obviously, she was a far better person than her husband, whatever her belief.

Requiescat in pace.

Articulate_Ape
12-09-2010, 06:05 PM
I'd rather leave the poor woman alone than speculate on the last thoughts and desires of an obviously very complex individual.


Amen.

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Actually, I have to say that I find her last public words and the sentiment they contain very honorable.



Obviously, she was a far better person than her husband, whatever her belief.

Requiescat in pace.

a steaming pile of monkey poo is a better person than her husband . . . .

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 06:22 PM
a steaming pile of monkey poo is a better person than her husband . . . .

Like I said, obviously, this is true, and it does not really need to be endlessly repeated.

Back-on-topic, though, let's hypothesise and say she was a horrible atheist like me, or she was a bit forgetful and didn't get around to making any post-mortem arrangements with Jesus.

In, or out of heaven? What say you?

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Like I said, obviously, this is true, and it does not really need to be endlessly repeated.

Back-on-topic, though, let's hypothesise and say she was a horrible atheist like me, or she was a bit forgetful and didn't get around to making any post-mortem arrangements with Jesus.

In, or out of heaven? What say you?

Out. She had heard the gospel messaged and if she did not accept it - out. I'm starting to wonder if her sons death might have shaken her faith though . . . .

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 06:42 PM
Out.

No luck for Elizabeth, then (unless).

We'll never know, will we?

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 06:49 PM
Actually, following on from this, Mr Edwards frequently HAS made indications that he is a believer.

Under the same criteria as applied before, do you believe that Mr Edwards will gain entry to the Kingdom when he departs this vale of tears?

This seems a very loaded dice to me. Heaven will be populated with far more John Edwards types than Elizabeth Edward types (I am assuming here that she's non-confessing, which is possibly unfair) under this reckoning.

Question to you, Policon: Do you think this state of affairs is right?

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 07:07 PM
No luck for Elizabeth, then (unless).

We'll never know, will we?

You may never know - but I will. :) I'll find out for sure when I get there. :cool:

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 07:10 PM
Actually, following on from this, Mr Edwards frequently HAS made indications that he is a believer.

Under the same criteria as applied before, do you believe that Mr Edwards will gain entry to the Kingdom when he departs this vale of tears?

This seems a very loaded dice to me. Heaven will be populated with far more John Edwards types than Elizabeth Edward types (I am assuming here that she's non-confessing, which is possibly unfair) under this reckoning.

Question to you, Policon: Do you think this state of affairs is right?

This is often hard for non-believers to accept but it's the way of things. Nothing you or I do can earn heaven. Our best efforts will fall well short of what is needed. So you can live the best life ever and still not get it. It's not about what you did in life - but what you did with Jesus in life. The gospel message is nothing if not a message of redemption for sinners and even scum like John Edwards.

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 07:21 PM
You may never know - but I will. :) I'll find out for sure when I get there. :cool:

Like I said earlier, very unlikely but possible.

Mazel Tov, anyway. Hope it works out for you.


This is often hard for non-believers to accept but it's the way of things.

And you know this how? Seriously, it is a serious question, and you seem very sure of the answer. Why, do you think, would it be that atheists like me have such a problem with it?


Nothing you or I do can earn heaven. Our best efforts will fall well short of what is needed. So you can live the best life ever and still not get it. It's not about what you did in life - but what you did with Jesus in life. The gospel message is nothing if not a message of redemption for sinners and even scum like John Edwards.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

If I may ask you another question, will you be a little bit disappointed, when you get to heaven, if you find that there are more John Edwards types than there are Elisabeth Edward types there?

If I had any expectations of there being an existence like heaven, I would think it a total pisser if I got there and it turned out to be like that.

PoliCon
12-09-2010, 07:29 PM
If I may ask you another question, will you be a little bit disappointed, when you get to heaven, if you find that there are more John Edwards types than there are Elisabeth Edward types there?

There is only one type in heaven - the redeemed type.

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 07:48 PM
There is only one type in heaven - the redeemed type.

Hmmm. Like I said, Mazel Tov with this.

You have to admit, there will be more than a few people in heaven that you would not wish to associate with here on earth, if only because of Pascal's Wager.

Rockntractor
12-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Hamps you would get a full head of hair in heaven!

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Hamps you would get a full head of hair in heaven!

Not sufficient inducement to make me believe in it, sadly.

Rockntractor
12-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Not sufficient inducement to make me believe in it, sadly.
More to come!:D

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 08:11 PM
More to come!:D

إن شاء الله
:D

Bubba Dawg
12-09-2010, 09:02 PM
I think that Elizabeth Edwards' personal faith, whatever it may have been, is just that, personal.

I discuss my faith with some people and not with others. It depends on the individuals involved and in the particular place in which the discussion takes place. In a more general sense, I tried Facebok and didn't really find it very interesting. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, I just found little use for it.

As a public person perhaps Elizabeth Edwards elected to have a presence on Facebook (damn I hate that phrase about having a presence on Facebook) but did not find it a particularly meaningful way to discuss her religious beliefs. If not, so be it.

I do have the sense that perhaps John Edwards' public profession of faith was him making use of religion as a part of his political campaign. That may be so. I don't know.

God does.

To me the same is true of Elizabeth and her relationship to God. I don't know her faith and don't presume to know what God has in store for her eternal soul.

I am perfectly content in allowing God to make His own decisions in the matter. I trust that they will be fair and loving.

Gingersnap
12-09-2010, 09:11 PM
If I may ask you another question, will you be a little bit disappointed, when you get to heaven, if you find that there are more John Edwards types than there are Elisabeth Edward types there?

If I had any expectations of there being an existence like heaven, I would think it a total pisser if I got there and it turned out to be like that.

Really? It wouldn't surprise me in the least, let alone annoy me.

I have no idea about Elizabeth Edwards' Final Destination and no one does. Speculating about it is disrespectful, I think.

More intriguing in my mind is what legal barriers she erected around her part of the estate to prevent her slime ball husband from profiting from her death. :p

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 09:13 PM
To me the same is true of Elizabeth and her relationship to God. I don't know her faith and don't presume to know what God has in store for her eternal soul.


QFT.

Great post. I don't agree with all of it, but I admire the ethic behind it.

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 09:17 PM
Speculating about it is disrespectful, I think.


I could not agree more.

It does raise some other interesting questions though, one of which, in particular, I hope I have adequately articulated.

Why would it not annoy you, to find more Johns than Elizabeths in this supposedly perfect place?

It is a reasonable question, do you not agree?

If heaven exists, would you not prefer there to be more nice people than not-so-nice people keeping you company?

Bubba Dawg
12-09-2010, 09:21 PM
QFT.

Great post. I don't agree with all of it, but I admire the ethic behind it.

You disagree with ME you git bastard!!!!!!!:mad::p:D

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 09:22 PM
You disagree with ME you git bastard!!!!!!!:mad::p:D

Ain't it great, being here on CU.

Bubba Dawg
12-09-2010, 09:24 PM
Ain't it great, being here on CU.

No place better, Noble Mon. ;):D

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 09:25 PM
No place better, Noble Mon. ;):D

You are right.

By the way, congratulations on the 12K.

Bubba Dawg
12-09-2010, 09:33 PM
You are right.

By the way, congratulations on the 12K.

Thanks. I hadn't even noticed. :o:)

Gingersnap
12-09-2010, 10:01 PM
I could not agree more.

It does raise some other interesting questions though, one of which, in particular, I hope I have adequately articulated.

Why would it not annoy you, to find more Johns than Elizabeths in this supposedly perfect place?

It is a reasonable question, do you not agree?

If heaven exists, would you not prefer there to be more nice people than not-so-nice people keeping you company?

I don't see Eternity as a zero-sum game. I win, they lose. I will frankly admit that I don't know the mind of the Creator. I am happy following the many moral and ethical precepts derived from the bible and tradition that govern my day-to-day existence but I don't claim that my religious/cultural heritage is the exact right way.

That said, my way is obviously superior than many other ways. I'm not moral relativist.

When my time comes, I expect to be surprised but not that some other religion pegged it closer. I expect to be surprised by God. ;)

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 10:11 PM
I don't see Eternity as a zero-sum game.

You may not, but the Bible does.

The whole point of the concept of Heaven and Hell is exactly that, a zero-sum game, by definition a game with only winners and losers. Otherwise, the choice is not just a binary one in nature.

There is no point making a threat, or making an inducement, that is not entirely zero-sum in nature.

The Bible is very clear on the entry and rejection criteria for Heaven and Hell. There will be winners and there will be losers.

m00
12-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Not under Christian theology, as I understand it. I have been told quite often that to get into heaven she would have had to accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour.

Is this concept extrapolated solely from John 14:6 -“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

hampshirebrit
12-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Is this concept extrapolated solely from John 14:6 -“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

In my limited understanding, yes.

I am led to understand that this is the core principle of Christianity, when entry to Heaven or its alternative are to be discussed.

It looks to me like a "my way or the highway" kind of choice. There is not much wiggle room here.

Gingersnap
12-09-2010, 11:08 PM
You may not, but the Bible does.

The whole point of the concept of Heaven and Hell is exactly that, a zero-sum game, by definition a game with only winners and losers. Otherwise, the choice is not just a binary one in nature.

There is no point making a threat, or making an inducement, that is not entirely zero-sum in nature.

The Bible is very clear on the entry and rejection criteria for Heaven and Hell. There will be winners and there will be losers.

No, it isn't. You fail to recognize the New Covenant. Christ Himself pardoned the thief. There is no zero-sum game here. The fact that some have made harsh judgments in this world says nothing about the next.

Release your attachment to Christian cultural stereotypes that are negative. You would do the same for Muslims, wouldn't you?

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 07:05 AM
Release your attachment to Christian cultural stereotypes that are negative. You would do the same for Muslims, wouldn't you?

Hey, I don't play favourites. I'm an equal opportunities anti-theist. All religion is fair game.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-10-2010, 07:34 AM
If Hell exists, perhaps it's like Heaven for those who don't believe.
After all, we've only gotten one side of the story here.

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 12:52 PM
I don't see Eternity as a zero-sum game. I win, they lose. I will frankly admit that I don't know the mind of the Creator. I am happy following the many moral and ethical precepts derived from the bible and tradition that govern my day-to-day existence but I don't claim that my religious/cultural heritage is the exact right way.

That said, my way is obviously superior than many other ways. I'm not moral relativist.

When my time comes, I expect to be surprised but not that some other religion pegged it closer. I expect to be surprised by God. ;)

Define religion as you are using it here . . . . When you say religion do you mean other sects/denominations or do you mean other faiths?

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 12:54 PM
If Hell exists, perhaps it's like Heaven for those who don't believe.
After all, we've only gotten one side of the story here.

Hell is not how most people picture it that's for sure.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 01:02 PM
Hell is not how most people picture it that's for sure.

I'll bet it is.

http://clustere.sevenload.net/dataB004/data23/slcom/iz/ji/ehmklk/wehyjijjeff.jpg

Articulate_Ape
12-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Hell is not how most people picture it that's for sure.

And just how the hell do you know that?

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 01:22 PM
And just how the hell do you know that?

Common sense among other things. Most people picture hell as a cavern full of fire and bodies writhing together in torment orgy style. :rolleyes: Hell is not a physical place. So it's not a cave. It's not full of physical fire. There are no bodies writhing together in torment.

Articulate_Ape
12-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Common sense among other things. Most people picture hell as a cavern full of fire and bodies writhing together in torment orgy style. :rolleyes: Hell is not a physical place. So it's not a cave. It's not full of physical fire. There are no bodies writhing together in torment.

You sure seem certain about a lot of things that the rest of us humans have no clue about. :rolleyes:

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 01:51 PM
Hell is not how most people picture it that's for sure.

And you know this how, exactly? :confused::confused:

On edit ... just saw your inadequate answer to AA's similar question.

How do you know all this stuff that the rest of humanity doesn't?

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 01:58 PM
How do you know all this stuff that the rest of humanity doesn't?

The rest of humanity? Nah. The unbeliever and the uninitiated sure - but not all of humanity.

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 02:02 PM
The rest of humanity? Nah. The unbeliever and the uninitiated sure - but not all of humanity.

When you said "most people", I assumed that you meant "the rest of humanity".

You also said "common sense". I have to tell you that my common sense tells me that there is no such place as hell.

Maybe my common sense is not common enough.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 02:03 PM
As I understand it, it's the absence of God. Sometimes that seems nice and quiet, when you hear about all the light and singing and stuff in heaven. "Heaven for the climate, hell for the company."

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 02:09 PM
As I understand it, it's the absence of God. Sometimes that seems nice and quiet, when you hear about all the light and singing and stuff in heaven. "Heaven for the climate, hell for the company."

I think I've said elsewhere on CU that I would get very bored very quickly if I turned out to be both wrong about heaven existing and consigned to spend eternity there (a very unlikely juxtaposition of circumstance).

Compulsory worship was bad enough when I was a kid, and that was only on Sunday mornings. I can't imagine it would be much fun knowing that you were stuck with it for all eternity.

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 02:09 PM
As I understand it, it's the absence of God. Sometimes that seems nice and quiet, when you hear about all the light and singing and stuff in heaven. "Heaven for the climate, hell for the company."

except hell is absolute isolation.

Articulate_Ape
12-10-2010, 02:16 PM
except I BELIEVE hell is absolute isolation.

ftfy :p

Zeus
12-10-2010, 03:21 PM
Interesting post.

My take on the situation as is is........... Mrs. Edwards final posit was public pronouncemnet of a private postulation ?

As to heaven and/or hell I do believe a lot of folks tend to over complicate things



John 14:6 -I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


Enterance to heaven is for the taking by any and all just for recognizing God as God, a rather simple precept. It is my belief that the only hinderance or bloke to enterance to heaven is by denying God. See if there is no God then there is no heaven right. No heaven ,no where to go. We all hold the key.

m00
12-11-2010, 01:37 PM
In my limited understanding, yes.

I am led to understand that this is the core principle of Christianity, when entry to Heaven or its alternative are to be discussed.

It looks to me like a "my way or the highway" kind of choice. There is not much wiggle room here.

Only if you look at it through the incredibly self-righteous lens of anti-theism. :p

Rockntractor
12-12-2010, 05:37 PM
Interesting post.

My take on the situation as is is........... Mrs. Edwards final posit was public pronouncemnet of a private postulation ?

As to heaven and/or hell I do believe a lot of folks tend to over complicate things



Enterance to heaven is for the taking by any and all just for recognizing God as God, a rather simple precept. It is my belief that the only hinderance or bloke to enterance to heaven is by denying God. See if there is no God then there is no heaven right. No heaven ,no where to go. We all hold the key.

Zeus it's good to hear from you again, you disappeared for awhile.

Odysseus
12-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Like I said, obviously, this is true, and it does not really need to be endlessly repeated.

Back-on-topic, though, let's hypothesise and say she was a horrible atheist like me, or she was a bit forgetful and didn't get around to making any post-mortem arrangements with Jesus.

In, or out of heaven? What say you?

After marriage to the Breck Girl, Hell would simply be redundant.