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CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-10-2010, 10:26 AM
People have speculated that he's a Muslim, a radical Christian, an Atheist, but I myself believe that he's none of the above--I don't see him as the type to be really religious, nor anti-religious. I believe he's probably an Agnostic. I believe he picked Trinity Church simply because having a religion of some kind is kind of an unspoken requirement for attaining high office, at least as of now.

He has publicly mocked the Bible, and refuses to say the words "Endowed by Their creator" when reciting the Declaration of Independence, amongst other things. I do not believe him to be an Atheist; Having read excerpts of his biography makes me disagree with that assessment. It is a possibility, given the faith of his mother, but he also seems to be an intellectual man and rather studious and open minded--I would say if he's an Atheist, than he's an Agnostic-Atheist. He is definitely not a "New" or Militant Atheist, if he is one. Therefore, I say he is some form of Agnostic.

I believe the only recent Presidents who have been definitely religious were FDR (Opting to pray openly on the radio on the Eve of D Day. He didn't have to, but it was his idea and that shows me he had faith of some form), Truman (his support of Israel was founded much on his faith), Nixon (I've read about his last night in the White House--praying on his knees to God with Kissinger--I do believe he was a Christian despite his personal flaws), Carter (for all his ineptness as President, I do believe he is a very religious man), Reagan (he seems to have been very true to his faith) and Bush II (obvious that he had a great reverence for God).

Personally, myself, I have been soul searching, shifting between Catholicism and a general Theism--As in a belief in a Higher Power, but not necessarily knowing it's identity. I want to be a Catholic, for it is the faith of my forefathers and I do love the Church, but the trials and horrors of life can challenge one's faith.

I would never be an Atheist, because that's antithetical to my beliefs about life, my world view and my views on morality, but I do not disparage any man who calls himself an Atheist. I do have a keen dislike of militant Atheists, but Atheism in general is a brave--from my POV--world view, for Atheists face much scorn and American Atheists live in a country where many do not share their views, and even have a negative opinion toward their beliefs (or unbelief as it were).

It is brave in that way, for they have the courage of their convictions in the face of hate and scorn--and I say this even though I strongly disagree with their conclusions.

Gingersnap
12-10-2010, 10:55 AM
He's just opportunistic (like most politicians). Had being a athame-carrying Wiccan been a strong selling point in this country, he'd have stripped naked in the woods and strapped some antlers to his head.

noonwitch
12-10-2010, 11:05 AM
I don't think it matters what religion the president is, as long as he is good at his job. I don't care if Obama is an agnostic, if he gets the job done. I don't want the next president to be someone who thinks we are living in the End Times, though. That would probably not be good for foreign policy, at the least.

"Endowed by the Creator" is not a term used in the pledge I grew up reciting-"One nation, under God" is the line I remember.

I'm pretty sure the reason that the Obamas chose Trinity Church has to do with his backround in community orgainizing in Chicago. Trinity UCC does a lot of that.

The Night Owl
12-10-2010, 11:24 AM
Based on writings by Barack Obama, Christopher Hitchens is convinced that Obama is a closet atheist.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 11:39 AM
"Endowed by the Creator" is not a term used in the pledge I grew up reciting-"One nation, under God" is the line I remember.



I know; who the hell wrote this? We didn't recite the Declaration of Independence in school, or anywhere else.

The Night Owl
12-10-2010, 11:41 AM
I don't think it matters what religion the president is, as long as he is good at his job. I don't care if Obama is an agnostic, if he gets the job done. I don't want the next president to be someone who thinks we are living in the End Times, though. That would probably not be good for foreign policy, at the least.

"Endowed by the Creator" is not a term used in the pledge I grew up reciting-"One nation, under God" is the line I remember.

I'm pretty sure the reason that the Obamas chose Trinity Church has to do with his backround in community orgainizing in Chicago. Trinity UCC does a lot of that.

Their Creator, not the Creator. This is an important difference.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 11:42 AM
Their Creator, not the Creator. This is an important difference.

Mistakenly referred to as "Endowed by our Creator" in the original post.

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 11:44 AM
Based on writings by Barack Obama, Christopher Hitchens is convinced that Obama is a closet atheist.

You have a link?

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-10-2010, 11:44 AM
Yeah, sorry, I made some typos. I fixed them.

I don't feel the faith of a President is all that important, unless they believed in something crazy. But it does make for interesting discussion. What brought this thread on was the discussion of Elizabeth Edward's faith...I just figured it'd make for an interesting topic.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Yeah, sorry, I made some typos. I fixed them.



That was yours? When have you ever recited the Declaration of Independence? :confused:

The Night Owl
12-10-2010, 11:47 AM
You have a link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsYUjv_aEA

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 11:47 AM
That was yours? When have you ever recited the Declaration of Independence? :confused:

I think CITM was referring to the president reciting the Declaration of Independence.

NJCardFan
12-10-2010, 11:48 AM
Let's not forget that in he mocked Christians when he said how they "cling to God and guns". He is an atheist IMO. Actually, the case for him being a Muslim can be made if you look at the evidence. The only religion he hasn't been critical of is Islam.

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 11:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITsYUjv_aEA

Good find, thanks for posting it.

linda22003
12-10-2010, 11:50 AM
I think CITM was referring to the president reciting the Declaration of Independence.

But why would he do that? No other president ever has. Not even, I suspect, Thomas Jefferson, who wrote it.

hampshirebrit
12-10-2010, 11:54 AM
But why would he do that? No other president ever has. Not even, I suspect, Thomas Jefferson, who wrote it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR61uTGTFoM

A partial, rather than a full recital.

NJCardFan
12-10-2010, 11:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR61uTGTFoM

A partial, rather than a full recital.

Notice how he pauses so he could gloss over the Creator part? Endowed by our Creator Mr. Obama. That's the full line you piece of shit. Say it or shut the fuck up.

Wei Wu Wei
12-10-2010, 11:58 AM
the president cant hear you buddy

The Night Owl
12-10-2010, 11:59 AM
Notice how he pauses so he could gloss over the Creator part? Endowed by our Creator Mr. Obama. That's the full line you piece of shit. Say it or shut the fuck up.

Their Creator, not our Creator. If you're going to criticize Barack Obama for omitting a phrase, at least get it right.

PoliCon
12-10-2010, 01:18 PM
I don't care what your faith is - if you're going to quote a person or a document - do it accurately. The left has been doing the same thing for ages to the famed liberty or death speech of Patrick Henry. The quote as it appears in most high school text books:

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

The real quote:

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-10-2010, 01:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR61uTGTFoM

A partial, rather than a full recital.

That tux looks awkward on him.