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View Full Version : What Exactly Needs To Be Reformed With Our Immigration System?



NJCardFan
12-22-2010, 11:30 PM
Seriously. what exactly needs to be reformed? I'll tell you what the left thinks. They believe that anyone can just saunter across the border untouched, no matter if your a scumbag. But what is broken? When my ancestors came here, they didn't sneak in. They were boated onto Ellis Island, legally processed, and then they had to have a sponsor and work lined up. Leftists want these people to come here and have access to welfare programs. My ancestors didn't have access to welfare programs and would have been ashamed to even dream of such. But no, for some reason people believe that Mexicans, and lets call a spade a spade here, it's Mexicans who are at the forefront, are owed something. If we're going to do that, just make Mexico the 51st state.

wilbur
12-22-2010, 11:38 PM
Immigration is essentially a non-issue, for anyone with an ounce of street smarts.

They pay more taxes than they use... its to our profit to have migrant workers here. We all benefit.

Republican politicians *really* don't like them because they vote democrat, plain and simple. That's what *all of this* is about.

Novaheart
12-23-2010, 12:23 AM
They pay more taxes than they use..

No, they don't.





... its to our profit to have migrant workers here. We all benefit.

Migrant workers and illegal immigrants are not the same thing. Migrant workers come to the US under contractors, who pay them crap and then take them back to Cucaracha at the end of the season. Illegal immigrants stay, look for other or better nonseasonable non-ag jobs, have kids which go to public schools, go to emergency rooms, get into the justice system, drive cars with no license or insurance, get beat up and run off by Americans who are fed up with it, etc...

An immigrant couple who have one child will NEVER pay enough in taxes to cover the cost to the state for that child.



Republican politicians *really* don't like them because they vote democrat, plain and simple. That's what *all of this* is about.

Perhaps, but that doesn't alter the fact that illegal and mass immigration is a social, economic, and environmental disaster in the making. The 12 million illegal aliens in the US right now will balloon into 80 million people in 50 years if we don't get them out of here and secure the border now.

m00
12-23-2010, 01:50 AM
Immigration is essentially a non-issue, for anyone with an ounce of street smarts.

Well, consider me as not having any street smarts because I consider it an issue.

fettpett
12-23-2010, 08:01 AM
What needs to happen is Mexico needs to clean it's own shit up. This is a backward third world nation that shouldn't be. They are one of the largest Oil producers in the West, Have some of the most beautiful Ocean front/destination places in the world and yet it it one of the most corrupt Governments from the local police all the way up to the top in the world.

FeebMaster
12-23-2010, 08:12 AM
Immigration isn't really a problem. Sure, it's entertaining to see conservatives crying about all that sweet, sweet government money getting sucked out of their favorite entitlement programs and wasted on non-citizens, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the home grown leeches.

I'm far more concerned about whatever will get dreamed up to fight illegal immigration next than I am about some immigrants taking part in social programs that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Want to really fix the alleged immigration problem? End all entitlement programs. Repeal all gun control and loosen up the self defense laws. There. I believe that takes care of 90% of the complaints about immigration.

fettpett
12-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Immigration isn't really a problem. Sure, it's entertaining to see conservatives crying about all that sweet, sweet government money getting sucked out of their favorite entitlement programs and wasted on non-citizens, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the home grown leeches.

I'm far more concerned about whatever will get dreamed up to fight illegal immigration next than I am about some immigrants taking part in social programs that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Want to really fix the alleged immigration problem? End all entitlement programs. Repeal all gun control and loosen up the self defense laws. There. I believe that takes care of 90% of the complaints about immigration.

typical liberal bullshit

FeebMaster
12-23-2010, 08:24 AM
Immigration isn't really a problem. Sure, it's entertaining to see conservatives crying about all that sweet, sweet government money getting sucked out of their favorite entitlement programs and wasted on non-citizens, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the home grown leeches.

I'm far more concerned about whatever will get dreamed up to fight illegal immigration next than I am about some immigrants taking part in social programs that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Want to really fix the alleged immigration problem? End all entitlement programs. Repeal all gun control and loosen up the self defense laws. There. I believe that takes care of 90% of the complaints about immigration.

typical liberal bullshit

lol. Yeah. I see what you mean.

fettpett
12-23-2010, 08:40 AM
lol. Yeah. I see what you mean.

I admit, i didn't read all your post....just the stupid shit at the top of it.

Gun Control reversal and lossening up the self defense would help, but not cure the problems.

Our (US) imigration issues are a symptom of a greater problem. The Mexican Government is rotten from the core. Once that is fixed than we wont have the issue because Mexican's will have more pride in their country.

Rebel Yell
12-23-2010, 09:07 AM
Want to really fix the alleged immigration problem? End all entitlement programs. Repeal all gun control and loosen up the self defense laws. There. I believe that takes care of 90% of the complaints about immigration.

That would fix damn near ALL the problems, not just immigration.

Rebel Yell
12-23-2010, 09:32 AM
I admit, i didn't read all your post....just the stupid shit at the top of it.

Gun Control reversal and lossening up the self defense would help, but not cure the problems.

Our (US) imigration issues are a symptom of a greater problem. The Mexican Government is rotten from the core. Once that is fixed than we wont have the issue because Mexican's will have more pride in their country.

Ending the entitlement programs along with Gun Control reversal would all but cure it.

Step 1: Force lazy Americans to work for food.

Step 2: Watch illegal immigant jobs dry up.


I worked in the watermelon fields in my youth, and I made pretty good money doing it. The local farmers could always just ride by a local convenience store and there would be people waiting for work. Now, people think they are too good to throw melons for a living. Why bust your ass when you can sit on it?

NJCardFan
12-23-2010, 10:06 AM
Personally, I have no problem with migrant workers. The reason migrant workers were brought in in the first place, and this pre-dates the current Mexican problem, is that these workers were willing to do the unskilled labor that Americans either won't do or would only do at a rate that wasn't cost affective to the farmer or whoever. Also, these workers were willing to do this work because even though they made a pittance, it was far and away a better living than they made in their own country. When my family came here, they were migrant workers and worked on the farms and in the mines of Scranton, PA. But in those days, and even leading up to after I was born, that was basically the extent of migrant work. Now, and this is expounding on what Rebel said, immigrant workers are in the service industry and other areas like landscaping along with farming. Now, as was said, if we turned off welfare and such, this would force Americans to do those jobs Americans won't do. As Rebel said, why bust you ass when you can sit on it and make the same, if not more, money.

Oh, and Feeb, if you don't think there's an illegal immigration problem, I beg you to come to where I live, look around, and re-assess your position. Bridgeton, NJ is turning into Oaxaca, North East.

Novaheart
12-23-2010, 10:50 AM
Ending the entitlement programs along with Gun Control reversal would all but cure it.

Step 1: Force lazy Americans to work for food.

Step 2: Watch illegal immigant jobs dry up.


We don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. Some of the entitlement programs are in place to provide for the basic needs of children and adults who are unable to fend for themselves. Leaving this to self selective charity is not acceptable.

We don't have to cut everything to do this.

One thing we need to do is to accept some of this welfare for what it actually is: a subsidy for employers.

Yes, it would be nice if we had Single Payer health insurance in place, and everyone paying taxes instead of premiums, but the Republicans and some Democrats don't want us to have that, because big business doesn't want it, because it works and it liberates the workers to move from job to job on a single negotiating item , ie pay.

But if you fiddled the formula so that people on welfare could work seasonally without getting kicked out of the housing and health care programs they need for their kids security, then you might be able to pull the farm bus up to public housing and get all the pickers you need.

However, anyone who thinks the Mexicans are just picking fruit is kidding himself. Part of the housing bubble was owing to the speed with which houses that we didn't need could be built. When I drove around Pinellas County, sure some of the guys working for the lawn services were imports, but most of the guys on the construction jobs were imports.

We need a mass deportation.
We need to prosecute and imprison some employers to send a shock wave through the system.
We need to arrest and detain illegal aliens, to send a message that we are serious.

We also need a public outcry, a public refusal to cooperate with this invasion. The problem is that we're all conditioned to be nice.

AmPat
12-23-2010, 12:05 PM
We don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. Some of the entitlement programs are in place to provide for the basic needs of children and adults who are unable to fend for themselves. Leaving this to self selective charity is not acceptable.
Why not? Charities are more than capable of providing VOLUNTARILY what the govt is FORCING people to do.

We don't have to cut everything to do this. Yes we do. It is not the federal govts job to steal my money and hand it to somebody else.

One thing we need to do is to accept some of this welfare for what it actually is: a subsidy for employers. Perhaps,,,,,,,,,,,,Only after you explain this nonsense.:rolleyes:

Yes, it would be nice if we had Single Payer health insurance in place, and everyone paying taxes instead of premiums, but the Republicans and some Democrats don't want us to have that, because big business doesn't want it, because it works and it liberates the workers to move from job to job on a single negotiating item , ie pay. Another Democratik Sheeple's talking point. We don't want it because it is not a function of govt to be in the health care or health insurance business.

But if you fiddled the formula so that people on welfare could work seasonally without getting kicked out of the housing and health care programs they need for their kids security, then you might be able to pull the farm bus up to public housing and get all the pickers you need.
Not likely. Have you seen these slugs? Wipe out the welfare BUSINESS and LIFESTYLE and these people will either work or die. I bet they are so hooked on Twinkies and Cheetos that the work.

However, anyone who thinks the Mexicans are just picking fruit is kidding himself. Part of the housing bubble was owing to the speed with which houses that we didn't need could be built. When I drove around Pinellas County, sure some of the guys working for the lawn services were imports, but most of the guys on the construction jobs were imports. True.

We need a mass deportation. Preach it!


We need to prosecute and imprison some employers to send a shock wave through the system. Amen!


We need to arrest and detain illegal aliens, to send a message that we are serious. Spoken like a true Conservative, nice work. There is hope for you yet.

We also need a public outcry, a public refusal to cooperate with this invasion. The problem is that we're all conditioned to be nice.Agreed and no kidding. It is not "hateful" to stand up for what is right. America is open to all who choose to be here LEGALLY. If you are not here legally, you are a criminal tresspasser. There is no such thing as an "undocumented worker," you are legally in the USA or Illegally. It is merely political BS to attempt to change the label to something more benign as "undocumented alien.":mad:

Novaheart
12-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Agreed and no kidding. It is not "hateful" to stand up for what is right. America is open to all who choose to be here LEGALLY. If you are not here legally, you are a criminal tresspasser. There is no such thing as an "undocumented worker," you are legally in the USA or Illegally. It is merely political BS to attempt to change the label to something more benign as "undocumented alien.":mad:

Here's the problem: Americans have difficulty with decisions and policy which conflict with our basic desire to be generous, charitable, and forgiving.

I can rail on and on about illegal and mass immigration on bulletin boards, but just the other night I was in Walmart and I saw a young obviously South American man whom I could reasonably suspect of being illegal. He was still wearing his work clothes, and obviously exhausted, standing and walking with that touch of pain you see working men get as they are on the brink between their youthful strength and invulnerability and their adult perseverance of sheer will and determination.

And even though I was looking at a man who had worked hard today, paying for his purchases with cash whilst American citizens with EBT cards came before and after, I wanted that damned illegal alien out of my country.

And then it happened.

A little Latino boy stepped from in front of the cart to where I could now see him, and his face lit up as his daddy gave him something as a treat. And the illegal alien smiled lovingly at his son, like all the shingles he had hauled today, and all the shoveling in the Florida sun, had been worth it so he could give his son a treat. And that's why it is hard for a lot of otherwise logical Americans to take a hard line against immigration. They would like to believe that it will all work out, that it will be self limiting, and that a few guys like this can make a better life for a little boy and put a smile on his face.

AmPat
12-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Here's the problem: Americans have difficulty with decisions and policy which conflict with our basic desire to be generous, charitable, and forgiving.

I can rail on and on about illegal and mass immigration on bulletin boards, but just the other night I was in Walmart and I saw a young obviously South American man whom I could reasonably suspect of being illegal. He was still wearing his work clothes, and obviously exhausted, standing and walking with that touch of pain you see working men get as they are on the brink between their youthful strength and invulnerability and their adult perseverance of sheer will and determination.

And even though I was looking at a man who had worked hard today, paying for his purchases with cash whilst American citizens with EBT cards came before and after, I wanted that damned illegal alien out of my country.

And then it happened.

A little Latino boy stepped from in front of the cart to where I could now see him, and his face lit up as his daddy gave him something as a treat. And the illegal alien smiled lovingly at his son, like all the shingles he had hauled today, and all the shoveling in the Florida sun, had been worth it so he could give his son a treat. And that's why it is hard for a lot of otherwise logical Americans to take a hard line against immigration. They would like to believe that it will all work out, that it will be self limiting, and that a few guys like this can make a better life for a little boy and put a smile on his face.
Well said. I too have faced this delemna. I know some illegals through my wife (legal Panamanian). I can tell you that one family is moving back to Mexico because he cannot find enough work to keep him here. He sends money home via western union regularly.

Strengthen the borders, enforce the border and hiring laws, and they will leave on their own. Then we wouldn't have those Lifetime Channel moments at Walmart to tug at our heartstrings.