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CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-30-2010, 05:11 AM
Lately I've come to read a lot about Missing Person's cases, Serial Killers, etc, and I have to say--out of all the crimes out there--Serial Killers top my personal list for most despicable, with child molesters and rapists a close second and third. I really want to be able to stop serial killers, or at least try and figure out some innovative new ways of catching them. This may sound stupid but while my family has (Thank God) never endured such or had any Missing Persons cases, these sort of cases touch me personally and deeply.

I know this is just sort of a rant, but I wish there was something I could do. Law, Order, and Border Control would be my priorities if I were in a position of power. I want to lower the amount of Missing Persons, lower the drug and human trafficking and lower the level of Serial Killers. There's got to be a way to fix all of this stuff.

obx
12-30-2010, 11:02 AM
More and quicker executions for Capital crimes would be a good place to start.

m00
12-30-2010, 11:03 AM
More and quicker executions for Capital crimes would be a good place to start.

Why?

Calypso Jones
12-30-2010, 11:07 AM
do you know how many people just disappear never to be seen or heard from again? I would wager a LOT. And who knows from what evil. serial killers, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, accidents, whatever...and just never found. It sort of quashes the idea that someone ALWAYS sees what you've done and/or, the police will solve the case at some point. bull.

wilbur
12-30-2010, 11:09 AM
More and quicker executions for Capital crimes would be a good place to start.

Can you actually show that there a correlation between the amount of real serial killers out there and the speed with which the death penalty is applied?

There certainly is a positive correlation between the speed with which the DP is applied, and the number of innocent people who get put to death though..

Rebel Yell
12-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Can you actually show that there a correlation between the amount of real serial killers out there and the speed with which the death penalty is applied?

There certainly is a positive correlation between the speed with which the DP is applied, and the number of innocent people who get put to death though..

If the death penalty were sped up, there would undeniably be less killers walking the earth. This point is indisputable.

megimoo
12-30-2010, 11:56 AM
Lately I've come to read a lot about Missing Person's cases, Serial Killers, etc, and I have to say--out of all the crimes out there--Serial Killers top my personal list for most despicable, with child molesters and rapists a close second and third. I really want to be able to stop serial killers, or at least try and figure out some innovative new ways of catching them. This may sound stupid but while my family has (Thank God) never endured such or had any Missing Persons cases, these sort of cases touch me personally and deeply.

I know this is just sort of a rant, but I wish there was something I could do. Law, Order, and Border Control would be my priorities if I were in a position of power. I want to lower the amount of Missing Persons, lower the drug and human trafficking and lower the level of Serial Killers. There's got to be a way to fix all of this stuff.I too am fascinated by serial killers.Some of the most brazen slipped under the law enforcement 'radar' for years.

There is a distinction, in my mind at any rate, between multiple killings during an escape from law enforcement that by definition are serial killings and the psychopathic serial killer with no indications of fear or guilt.

There are by estimation thousands of active serial psychopathic killers in the United States.Some kill with long intervals between killings.These are the most difficult to find .Some kill while moving from place to place.They are found only if a pattern is noticed and traced.

Before VICAP many serial killings went unnoticed and put down as unsolved .The FBI VICAP programs computers logs all homicides and sexual assaults in America and many foreign countries looking for and plotting each searching for paterns and commonalities .

Some like Bundy became insane, with long intervals of sanity killed over twenty nine and was caught because of his arrogance .
http://quazen.com/reference/biography/10-weird-facts-about-ted-bundys-childhood/

Some like Reséndiz transit between Mexico,Canada and America killed over thirty before they are finally caught usually by accident.
..........enough..

.

Satanicus
12-30-2010, 12:01 PM
Most crimes in the USA are committed by white male christians.

Start with that.

m00
12-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Most crimes in the USA are committed by white male christians.

Start with that.

What value could this possibly add to the thread? How are you not simply being antagonistic for its own sake?

Satanicus
12-30-2010, 12:05 PM
What value could this possibly add to the thread? How are you not simply being antagonistic for its own sake?

Why did the OP mention 'border control' ?

It is debatable wether illegals are contributing to the serial killer problem , but it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

Yet you don't question the op's debatable post , and instead go after the cold hard facts.

Take a bow. I was making a point that went right over your head.

m00
12-30-2010, 12:14 PM
Why did the OP mention 'border control' ?

It is debatable wether illegals are contributing to the serial killer problem , but it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

Yet you don't question the op's debatable post , and instead go after the cold hard facts.

Take a bow. I was making a point that went right over your head.

I'm pretty sure my point went right over your head. That you're just... a very unpleasant person. I don't know why the OP mentioned border control, maybe you should ask him. His answer might surprise you.


but it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

But we're not really talking about "crime" we are talking about serial killers and sex offenders. Are white male Christians over represented for serial killers and sex offenders? I don't have any data for that. Do you?

I get your point that the OP hasn't listed data for illegal immigrants being over-represented for serial killers and sex offenders.(I'm sure someone will go ahead and post about 10 articles with anecdotal evidence before I'm done typing this :p). But see, why can't you just play nice and and challenge his post with "Hey, where's the data that says border control will address this issue" instead of being an ass on a board where you are guest?

Satanicus
12-30-2010, 12:16 PM
But we're not really talking about "crime" we are talking about serial killers and sex offenders.

Your right , rape and killing isn't a crime , my bad,... I don't know what I was thinking.

m00
12-30-2010, 12:19 PM
Your right , rape and killing isn't a crime , my bad,... I don't know what I was thinking.

/sigh.

Do you know what a logical fallacy is? Your response was engaging in a fallacy of generalization. All rapes and murders are crimes, but not all crimes are are rapes and murders. Therefore whether or not most crimes are committed by white Christians has no bearing on the OP.

megimoo
12-30-2010, 12:20 PM
Most crimes in the USA are committed by white male christians.

Start with that.Most spam on CU is generated by Satanicus !

Rebel Yell
12-30-2010, 12:21 PM
It is debatable wether illegals are contributing to the serial killer problem , but it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

I don't have a problem with the search for serial killers starting with looking of rmiddle aged white males, but doesn't that constitute what your ilk call profiling?

Satanicus
12-30-2010, 12:26 PM
I don't have a problem with the search for serial killers starting with looking of rmiddle aged white males, but doesn't that constitute what your ilk call profiling?

Jeeesh , I was joking , looking at white male would be absurd , and no help at all.

Just like pinning "border control' to our serial killer problem.

Unreal , are you guys for real ?

NJCardFan
12-30-2010, 12:31 PM
Most crimes in the USA are committed by white male christians.

Start with that.

Just when I thought you couldn't be a bigger asshole, you go ahead and correct me.

Now, let's touch on the death penalty for a minute. Those against it say it's not a deterrent. This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you're going to use that logic then we should do away with prisons because with the recidivism rates, prison sure as hell isn't a deterrent either. But here's where the "it's not a deterrent" crowd falls flat. When someone is executed, they are guaranteed to never kill again. They have been successfully deterred from killing anyone. So with this, I'm in agreement with OBX because there is no reason why someone should be on death row for 20 years before sentence is carried out.

obx
12-30-2010, 12:37 PM
Just when I thought you couldn't be a bigger asshole, you go ahead and correct me.

Now, let's touch on the death penalty for a minute. Those against it say it's not a deterrent. This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you're going to use that logic then we should do away with prisons because with the recidivism rates, prison sure as hell isn't a deterrent either. But here's where the "it's not a deterrent" crowd falls flat. When someone is executed, they are guaranteed to never kill again. They have been successfully deterred from killing anyone. So with this, I'm in agreement with OBX because there is no reason why someone should be on death row for 20 years before sentence is carried out.

Thank you! A society without a death penalty truly shows they have no value on the victim's life.

Wei Wu Wei
12-30-2010, 12:48 PM
Just when I thought you couldn't be a bigger asshole, you go ahead and correct me.

Now, let's touch on the death penalty for a minute. Those against it say it's not a deterrent. This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you're going to use that logic then we should do away with prisons because with the recidivism rates, prison sure as hell isn't a deterrent either. But here's where the "it's not a deterrent" crowd falls flat. When someone is executed, they are guaranteed to never kill again. They have been successfully deterred from killing anyone. So with this, I'm in agreement with OBX because there is no reason why someone should be on death row for 20 years before sentence is carried out.

That's not what a deterrent is and you know this. If someone is in a maximum security prison for life, he can't kill any innocent people again (except perhaps an unlucky prison worker, be careful).

A deterrent is about people who aren't in prison, acting to prevent them from doing the crime to begin with.


You cannot deter serial killers. Serial killers (as opposed to mass murderers) are almost always severely psychologically damaged. Extreme sociopathy and sexual perversions prevents them from feeling guilt or remorse for their actions, and prevents them from feeling any empathy for their victims.

Most of crime can be traced back to environmental problems, poor short term decision making, drug use, poverty, and other things that make sense even if they are stupid.

Serial killing is different, most people kill for some reason, revenge, or personal gain, or panic. Serial killers slowly and carefully plan their actions and do it just for the sake of doing it. Their reasoning doesn't work outside of their own minds.


Serial killers are fascinating to understand what the human animal is capable of (the only animal that kills others for pleasure rather than necessity), to understand what comes with our unique human condition. As for rehibilitation or prevention, it doesnt seem to be possible. Thankfully, serial killing is quite rare.

Rebel Yell
12-30-2010, 01:57 PM
Serial killers are fascinating to understand what the human animal is capable of (the only animal that kills others for pleasure rather than necessity), to understand what comes with our unique human condition.

I hate to nitpick, but that's not true. Nothing is more cold blooded and merciless than the common housecat.;)

Calypso Jones
12-30-2010, 01:57 PM
Why did the OP mention 'border control' ?

It is debatable wether illegals are contributing to the serial killer problem , but it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

Yet you don't question the op's debatable post , and instead go after the cold hard facts.

Take a bow. I was making a point that went right over your head.

yes. White males have shown a propensity for it. But then do we hear any about the serial killers in Europe? Then maybe the belief that it is only white males means that they overlooked the hispanic and female serial killers. Then again MAYBE it's white male homosexuals.

NJCardFan
12-30-2010, 03:51 PM
yes. White males have shown a propensity for it. But then do we hear any about the serial killers in Europe? Then maybe the belief that it is only white males means that they overlooked the hispanic and female serial killers. Then again MAYBE it's white male homosexuals.

Dude, you're kidding, right? Peter Kurten was one of the most notorious serial killers of all time. An does Jack the Ripper ring any bells? Or the Yorkshire Ripper. Believe me, Europe has their fair share of serial killers.


]That's not what a deterrent is and you know this. If someone is in a maximum security prison for life, he can't kill any innocent people again (except perhaps an unlucky prison worker, be careful).

This is precisely the point. They can still kill be it another inmate or staff. The last person to die on death row in NJ was a guy named Robert "Mudman" Simons. He was killed by one Ambrose Harris, another death row inmate. Doesn't matter who the victim is. On the TV show Dexter, Dexter is a serial killer who kills murderers. This still makes him a criminal and a scumbag. In short, no matter how you slice it, Dexter is not a good guy.


A deterrent is about people who aren't in prison, acting to prevent them from doing the crime to begin with.
Which brings me to my other point about prison being a deterrent. Obviously it is not. It isn't even a deterrent to those who have done time. The recidivism rate is off the hook. According to a recent study (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html), recidivism is at 67% inmates who are re-arrested and 52% are re-incarcerated. So, using your logic, we should close all prisons down because being sent to jail isn't working. :rolleyes:


You cannot deter serial killers.
This we can agree on. This is why when you catch one, you dispatch with that person post haste.

Zafod
12-30-2010, 05:54 PM
http://oi37.tinypic.com/t6y0lf.jpg
.

m00
12-30-2010, 05:59 PM
This we can agree on. This is why when you catch one, you dispatch with that person post haste.

I really don't trust government enough to be comfortable with it having the power to execute people.

wilbur
12-30-2010, 06:06 PM
Which brings me to my other point about prison being a deterrent. Obviously it is not. It isn't even a deterrent to those who have done time. The recidivism rate is off the hook. According to a recent study (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html), recidivism is at 67% inmates who are re-arrested and 52% are re-incarcerated. So, using your logic, we should close all prisons down because being sent to jail isn't working. :rolleyes:


If Jail is doing absolutely nothing to deter crime, then why ARE we still sending people there? Why the heck do we bother to punish at all, if punishments are useless?

Zafod
12-30-2010, 06:07 PM
If Jail is doing absolutely nothing to deter crime, then why ARE we still sending people there?

umm because we cant kill them?

Kay
12-30-2010, 06:28 PM
More and quicker executions for Capital crimes would be a good place to start.

That is exactly what I had planned to say. I agree 100 % with this.


it is a fact that most crimes are committed by white male christians.

No it is a fact statistically that most 'crimes' are committed by black males, if I'm not mistaken the prison system population is overwhelmingly black. When it comes to serial killers though, I do believe most of them I can recall were white middle aged men. Maybe it's just that the young black ghetto dweller criminal who kills is dumber and gets caught the first time out, whereas the middle aged white serial killer is often times fairly well educated and can better cover his tracks without getting caught for decades.


The recidivism rate is off the hook. According to a recent study (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html), recidivism is at 67% inmates who are re-arrested and 52% are re-incarcerated.

NJ do you think this partly has to do with prison becoming a home with a roof over their head and 3 hot meals a day with free health care and some purpose/direction in life versus being alone and hungry on the mean streets when they are out? For the young and dumb criminal, at least on the inside their life is structured.

m00
12-30-2010, 06:43 PM
Which brings me to my other point about prison being a deterrent. Obviously it is not. It isn't even a deterrent to those who have done time. The recidivism rate is off the hook. According to a recent study (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html), recidivism is at 67% inmates who are re-arrested and 52% are re-incarcerated. So, using your logic, we should close all prisons down because being sent to jail isn't working. :rolleyes:

Norway has extremely low recidivism rates. Maximum you can get for any crime is 20 years. You know what their prisons are like, right?

NJCardFan
12-30-2010, 06:48 PM
If Jail is doing absolutely nothing to deter crime, then why ARE we still sending people there? Why the heck do we bother to punish at all, if punishments are useless?

It's not the fact that people are being sent to prison that is limiting it's affect as a deterrent, it's the system. Prison is no longer punishment. Gone is the term penitentiary replaced by the term correctional facility. In NJ, we have 13 state facilities and only 5 have 'prison' in the name. One is a sex offender facility, one is a reception facility. The other 6 are 'correction' facilities. Believe me when I tell you that jail isn't jail anymore. It's as close to a vacation as you're going to get. Worse yet, gangs consider going to jail a right of passage. How sick is that?


Norway has extremely low recidivism rates. Maximum you can get for any crime is 20 years. You know what their prisons are like, right?

I don't give a fuck about Norway. I don't live in Norway. When inmates in prison in NJ's biggest worry is wanting the Cartoon Network, tell me how prison is punishment.





NJ do you think this partly has to do with prison becoming a home with a roof over their head and 3 hot meals a day with free health care and some purpose/direction in life versus being alone and hungry on the mean streets when they are out? For the young and dumb criminal, at least on the inside their life is structured.
Maybe for county but I haven't run into this in state prison.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-31-2010, 04:59 AM
do you know how many people just disappear never to be seen or heard from again? I would wager a LOT. And who knows from what evil. serial killers, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, accidents, whatever...and just never found. It sort of quashes the idea that someone ALWAYS sees what you've done and/or, the police will solve the case at some point. bull.

Check out this site:
http://www.doenetwork.org/

Thousands and thousands of cases. All missing men, women and children. Very sad. So many cases unsolved, many of them decades old. Many John and Jane Does. I want this to stop, or at least have the law crack down on such things severely. It really depresses and upsets me to see these things.

As to Satanicus: As to why I mentioned border control: Violent crimes or crimes in which someone or something is stolen from someone, including, as was the main focus of this thread, serial killings, as well as rapes, disgust and depress me. Especially violent crimes targeted at women.

While this thread is about Serial Killers and Missing Persons, I just casually mentioned border control (in reference SPECIFICALLY to the high levels of human trafficking which are said to occur at or near our borders now) and rapes as two additional societal ills which I feel should be corrected. As I said in the OP, my OP was a bit of a rant about things I find wrong with our society that I want correct. However, the thread is about serial killers, and with all due respect I hope we can keep it on topic and not fight about petty and stupid race issues.

Which brings me to: Race never entered my mind as I was making the OP. I do not care what color or ethnicity a murderer or human trafficker is, they're all equally evil to me. The fact that you immediately had to jump with the race card, or used what you perceived as an opportunity to stir shit says more about you than it does about me.

Here's another societial ill that disturbs me, that I wish was eradicated: Child Abuse. And that too has no color, but in any and all cases is equally wrong. I've been the victim of it. 'Nuff said on that one.

Basically to sum it up, I abhor any sort of violence done to women and children, and/or anything done to induce fear and horror in them. Women and children are to be protected, treated gently, kindly and with care. Not harmed. Women are beautiful creatures and should be respected; Children are the most innocent among us and anyone who destroys a child's innocence through pain, abuse or fear is, at least spiritually, a murderer--Just my opinion.

m00
12-31-2010, 05:49 AM
I don't give a fuck about Norway. I don't live in Norway. When inmates in prison in NJ's biggest worry is wanting the Cartoon Network, tell me how prison is punishment.

Well, other than the rape...

But why is punishment a virtue? I would think it's more important to deter crime. I think it's pretty clear that prison doesn't deter crime, because nobody thinks they'll get caught.

Personally I think we really our prison system should be more geared towards serving two categories of inmates:

1) Where rehabilitation and integration into society is probable
2) Where rehabilitation and integration into society is not probable

For category #2 the name of the game should be separation and isolation. For category #1 probably the worst we can do is let them intermingle with category #2.

NJCardFan
12-31-2010, 08:39 AM
Well, other than the rape...

But why is punishment a virtue? I would think it's more important to deter crime. I think it's pretty clear that prison doesn't deter crime, because nobody thinks they'll get caught.

Personally I think we really our prison system should be more geared towards serving two categories of inmates:

1) Where rehabilitation and integration into society is probable
2) Where rehabilitation and integration into society is not probable

For category #2 the name of the game should be separation and isolation. For category #1 probably the worst we can do is let them intermingle with category #2.
Ask the gangbangers, I dunno. It's their logic, not mine. Even Chris Rock said that in 'da hood' you get more respect when you get out of jail than you get from graduating high school or college. But you're right, prison doesn't deter crime. Personally, I believe we should wall off a city and let these fuckers kill each other like in Escape From New York.

djones520
12-31-2010, 08:42 AM
Most crimes in the USA are committed by white male christians.

Start with that.

Source.

Provide it.

Now.

NJCardFan
12-31-2010, 08:54 AM
Check out this site:
http://www.doenetwork.org/

Thousands and thousands of cases. All missing men, women and children. Very sad. So many cases unsolved, many of them decades old. Many John and Jane Does. I want this to stop, or at least have the law crack down on such things severely. It really depresses and upsets me to see these things.


What the fuck, guy. What do you think the law is trying to do? There are over 300 million people in this country and of that, there are approximately 800,000 city, county, state, and federal law enforcement personnel to patrol 3,537,000 square miles of land and water. It ain't the fault of the law and law enforcement. What we need is a citizenry who is willing to step up and help out by giving information and cooperating with law enforcement. But we don't have that. A prime example are the murders of Biggie Smallz and Tupac Shakur. There are people who know who did both of these but the "snitches get stitches" mentality in 'da hood' will allow these crimes to go unpunished and unsolved. We also need legislators with a backbone and we need prison to be for only for violent offenders. Stop treating getting caught with a bag of weed worse than molesting a child for starters.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-31-2010, 09:48 AM
What the fuck, guy. What do you think the law is trying to do? There are over 300 million people in this country and of that, there are approximately 800,000 city, county, state, and federal law enforcement personnel to patrol 3,537,000 square miles of land and water. It ain't the fault of the law and law enforcement. What we need is a citizenry who is willing to step up and help out by giving information and cooperating with law enforcement. But we don't have that. A prime example are the murders of Biggie Smallz and Tupac Shakur. There are people who know who did both of these but the "snitches get stitches" mentality in 'da hood' will allow these crimes to go unpunished and unsolved. We also need legislators with a backbone and we need prison to be for only for violent offenders. Stop treating getting caught with a bag of weed worse than molesting a child for starters.

I agree with everything you said.
I just was expressing some dissatisfaction that these things still occur, in our country, in 2010. I know the police work as hard as they can, it just gets frustrating.

By the way, be careful about advocating leniency for Pot smokers lest you be branded a Libertarian or even worse, a Socialist! Lol.

NJCardFan
12-31-2010, 09:49 AM
I agree with everything you said.
I just was expressing some dissatisfaction that these things still occur, in our country, in 2010. I know the police work as hard as they can, it just gets frustrating.

By the way, be careful about advocating leniency for Pot smokers lest you be branded a Libertarian or even worse, a Socialist! Lol.
Um, I have stated several time that I am a registered Libertarian so being branded one would be moot.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
12-31-2010, 01:12 PM
Um, I have stated several time that I am a registered Libertarian so being branded one would be moot.

I've seen more than one conservative--not here, but in other places--take a dim view of Libertarians. Not my view.