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The Night Owl
01-10-2011, 01:01 PM
A nice story someone posted over at DF...


Egypt's Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as "human shields"

Muslims turned up in droves for the Coptic Christmas mass Thursday night, offering their bodies, and lives, as “shields” to Egypt’s threatened Christian community

Yasmine El-Rashidi , Friday 7 Jan 2011

Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night. What had been a promise of solidarity to the weary Coptic community, was honoured, when thousands of Muslims showed up at Coptic Christmas eve mass services in churches around the country and at candle light vigils held outside.

From the well-known to the unknown, Muslims had offered their bodies as “human shields” for last night’s mass, making a pledge to collectively fight the threat of Islamic militants and towards an Egypt free from sectarian strife.

“We either live together, or we die together,” was the sloganeering genius of Mohamed El-Sawy, a Muslim arts tycoon whose cultural centre distributed flyers at churches in Cairo Thursday night, and who has been credited with first floating the “human shield” idea.

Among those shields were movie stars Adel Imam and Yousra, popular Muslim televangelist and preacher Amr Khaled, the two sons of President Hosni Mubarak, and thousands of citizens who have said they consider the attack one on Egypt as a whole.

...

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/3365.aspx

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 01:07 PM
I find that highly encouraging.

Rockntractor
01-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Good post Owl!

Bleda
01-10-2011, 07:07 PM
I hate to rain on this parade, but let's not get carried away here. The very first sentence of the article is misleading. How can "Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night" be true when, out of 80 million people, only thousands attended?

And let's not forget that Egypt is the same country where 50% of the population support Hamas (20% support Hezbollah, and 20% support al-Qaeda), where 60% identify as "fundamentalist" Muslims, where 54% favor gender segregation in the workplace, where 82% support stoning people for adultery, where 77% support cutting off the hands of thieves and robbers, and where 84% support the death penalty for those who leave Islam.

http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

It's Islam, stupid.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 07:08 PM
I hate to rain on this parade, but let's not get carried away here. The very first sentence of the article is misleading. How can "Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night" be true when, out of 80 million people, only thousands attended?

And let's not forget that Egypt is the same country where 50% of the population support Hamas (20% support Hezbollah, and 20% support al-Qaeda), where 60% identify as "fundamentalist" Muslims, where 54% favor gender segregation in the workplace, where 82% support stoning people for adultery, where 77% support cutting off the hands of thieves and robbers, and where 84% support the death penalty for those who leave Islam.

http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

It's Islam, stupid.


Yes, we must discourage this in the future. WTF were we thinking?

Bleda
01-10-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes, we must discourage this in the future. WTF were we thinking?

No, don't discourage it, but don't claim the majority of Egyptian Muslims support it either. You can't change Islam. The only solution is to convert to irreligion or another religion.

Rockntractor
01-10-2011, 07:49 PM
Let's just put it this way, it's a step in the right direction no matter how large.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 07:52 PM
No, don't discourage it, but don't claim the majority of Egyptian Muslims support it either. You can't change Islam. The only solution is to convert to irreligion or another religion.

I could be mistaken, but I think you are reading into what was a poorly constructed headline. Believe me, Bleda, I am no fan of Islam in the least, but I also think that if non-Muslims reflexively quash support for those Muslims that are reaching up from the midst of that backward cult, then we really do become part of the problem.

Just my opinion, but I am right 99% of the time. Ask anyone, not my wife, anyone else.

Bleda
01-10-2011, 08:54 PM
I know what you mean. But all I said in this thread is that I don't think most Egyptian Muslims are moderate Muslims. I wasn't talking about the Muslims who did show up and stand with the Coptics. You're right that it is encouraging, but I just wanted to make sure we don't forget how widespread fundamentalism is in the Muslim world, or believe that the problem isn't Islam but a distortion of it.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 08:59 PM
I know what you mean. But all I said in this thread is that I don't think most Egyptian Muslims are moderate Muslims. I wasn't talking about the Muslims who did show up and stand with the Coptics. You're right that it is encouraging, but I just wanted to make sure we don't forget how widespread fundamentalism is in the Muslim world, or believe that the problem isn't Islam but a distortion of it.

You are, of course, correct. I also doubt that discerning minds would disagree. I guess it is just nice to see a little conspicuous evolution taking place on the event horizon of that dying black hole. Cheers.

Rockntractor
01-10-2011, 09:00 PM
I know what you mean. But all I said in this thread is that I don't think most Egyptian Muslims are moderate Muslims. I wasn't talking about the Muslims who did show up and stand with the Coptics. You're right that it is encouraging, but I just wanted to make sure we don't forget how widespread fundamentalism is in the Muslim world, or believe that the problem isn't Islam but a distortion of it.

We are the only ones that use the terms moderate or extreme among themselves they use no such distinctions.

The Night Owl
01-11-2011, 11:59 AM
I hate to rain on this parade, but let's not get carried away here. The very first sentence of the article is misleading. How can "Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night" be true when, out of 80 million people, only thousands attended?

And let's not forget that Egypt is the same country where 50% of the population support Hamas (20% support Hezbollah, and 20% support al-Qaeda), where 60% identify as "fundamentalist" Muslims, where 54% favor gender segregation in the workplace, where 82% support stoning people for adultery, where 77% support cutting off the hands of thieves and robbers, and where 84% support the death penalty for those who leave Islam.

http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

It's Islam, stupid.

What I get from the article you posted is that extremism in Muslim populations has been declining since 2002...

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-18.png

Things are moving in the right direction. I look forward to a future in which most Muslims are, like most Christians, basically secular people whose commitment to God doesn't go beyond attending worship services occasionally.

Bleda
01-11-2011, 06:34 PM
What I get from the article you posted is that extremism in Muslim populations has been declining since 2002...

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-18.png

And increasing since 2008. Not to mention that's only about suicide bombing, which isn't the only 'extremist' thing about Muslims.

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-05.png

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-12.png

http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-13.png

Regardless of whether it's increasing or decreasing, it is still pretty widespread.

The Night Owl
01-12-2011, 02:27 PM
And increasing since 2008...

...but still lower than 2002.

Bleda
01-12-2011, 04:54 PM
But still pretty high (relatively speaking)...

Who cares about suicide bombing, anyway? Why don't you comment on the other things I posted? For instance, 48% (average of the 7 countries) supporting the death penalty for apostasy is a pretty big deal.

AmPat
01-12-2011, 05:22 PM
A nice story someone posted over at DF...



http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/3365.aspx

Beautiful. I'd like to see this spread throughout the whole muslim world for the rest of the year as well.

The Night Owl
01-12-2011, 05:55 PM
But still pretty high (relatively speaking)...

Who cares about suicide bombing, anyway?

Seriously?


Why don't you comment on the other things I posted? For instance, 48% (average of the 7 countries) supporting the death penalty for apostasy is a pretty big deal.

Concern over apostasy is not unique to Muslims. Many Christians, for instance, worship a god who they believe punishes thoughtcrimes such as apostasy by throwing the guilty into a lake of fire for all eternity. It's a comical belief... but only because it isn't true.

Rockntractor
01-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Sewiouswy? Concewn ovew apostasy is not uniqwe to Muswims. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! Many Chwistians, fow instance, wowship a god who they bewieve punishes thoughtcwimes such as apostasy by thwowing those guiwty of it into a wake of fiwe fow aww etewnity. It's a comicaw bewief... but onwy because it isn't twue.
Okay.:confused:

Bleda
01-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Seriously?

Yes, seriously. There are countless other ways of waging jihad other than suicide bombing. A Muslim who opposes suicide bombing but supports using swords to cut off the heads of infidels is hardly more peaceful than a Muslim who supports both of those things.


Concern over apostasy is not unique to Muslims. Many Christians, for instance, worship a god who they believe punishes thoughtcrimes such as apostasy by throwing those guilty of it into a lake of fire for all eternity. It's a comical belief... but only because it isn't true.

Sorry, but "other people do it too!" is a pretty childish argument, not to mention irrelevant to what we're discussing.

The Night Owl
01-13-2011, 11:40 AM
Yes, seriously. There are countless other ways of waging jihad other than suicide bombing. A Muslim who opposes suicide bombing but supports using swords to cut off the heads of infidels is hardly more peaceful than a Muslim who supports both of those things.

If Muslim support for one form of extremism is declining then it's reasonable to assume that Muslim support for other forms is doing the same. Might there be someone out there who is against suicide bombing but in favor of decapitation? Maybe. But that person is almost certainly the exception, not the rule.


Sorry, but "other people do it too!" is a pretty childish argument, not to mention irrelevant to what we're discussing.

Don't get me wrong. I have no desire to excuse Islamic authoritarianism. I think Muslims would do well to do like the Christians do-- that is, stop taking the writings of ancients so seriously.

Bleda
01-13-2011, 08:06 PM
If Muslim support for one form of extremism is declining then it's reasonable to assume that Muslim support for other forms is doing the same. Might there be someone out there who is against suicide bombing but in favor of decapitation? Maybe. But that person is almost certainly the exception, not the rule.

That makes no sense to me. What do you base that assumption on?


Don't get me wrong. I have no desire to excuse Islamic authoritarianism. I think Muslims would do well to do like the Christians do-- that is, stop taking the writings of ancients so seriously.

Unfortunately, Islam doesn't allow reformation. Muhammad made it clear that anybody who changes anything in Islam is no longer a Muslim.

The Night Owl
01-15-2011, 03:17 PM
That makes no sense to me. What do you base that assumption on?


You tell me why an extremist would draw the line at suicide bombing.The idea that there are Muslims in favor of extremism but against suicide bombing doesn't make sense. If Muslims were increasingly in favor of extremism then they would be increasingly in favor of suicide bombings as well.

AmPat
01-15-2011, 03:26 PM
You tell me why an extremist would draw the line at suicide bombing.The idea that there are Muslims in favor of extremism but against suicide bombing doesn't make sense. If Muslims were increasingly in favor of extremism then they would be increasingly in favor of suicide bombings as well.
You tell me where the millions of non-extremist mu-slims are when their extremist executes a suicide bombing? Weird huh? The silence is deafening.:rolleyes:

Bleda
01-15-2011, 07:52 PM
You tell me why an extremist would draw the line at suicide bombing.The idea that there are Muslims in favor of extremism but against suicide bombing doesn't make sense. If Muslims were increasingly in favor of extremism then they would be increasingly in favor of suicide bombings as well.

Suicide is not allowed in Islam. Jihadists only allow suicide if it's while waging jihad.

There were no suicide bombers during the Islamic conquests. Muslims are smart enough to know there are ways of killing people other than blowing yourself up next to them.

I don't know why this makes no sense to you? It's pretty simple. :confused:

AmPat
01-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Suicide is not allowed in Islam. Jihadists only allow suicide if it's while waging jihad.

There were no suicide bombers during the Islamic conquests. Muslims are smart enough to know there are ways of killing people other than blowing yourself up next to them.

I don't know why this makes no sense to you? It's pretty simple. :confused:

He's likes to think that his "but Christians and/or Conservatives do the same thing" argument makes him morally superior to us knuckle-draggers. It's a known symptom of liberal disease.:cool:

Sonnabend
01-15-2011, 11:05 PM
Concern over apostasy is not unique to Muslims. Many Christians, for instance, worship a god who they believe punishes thoughtcrimes such as apostasy by throwing the guilty into a lake of fire for all eternity. It's a comical belief... but only because it isn't true.Christians dont stone people to death for "apostasy", they dont hang them,. they dont stone women to death for "adultery" and they dont condone paedophilia.

Islam does all all of the above. And more.


News of a Saudi octogenarian marrying an eleven-year-old girl has outraged human rights activists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_activists) amid calls on the government to regulate the marriage of underage girls, local media reported Saturday.

The Saudi National Human Rights Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Human_Rights_Commission) formed a committee to investigate the marriage, which activists consider a flagrant violation of human and children rights, the Saudi newspaper al-Riyadh said.

The marriage registrar, who was widely criticized since he agreed to seal the marriage contract knowing the girl's age, absolved himself of any blame.



Leading Saudi cleric Muhammad Musa Al-Sharif defended the practice of marrying nine-year-old girls as sanctioned by the prophet Mohammad in his own marriage to a nine-year-old girl, Aisha. In a truly signature moment, Al-Sharif insisted that not only does a girl become a woman at nine but when Islamic law refers to a certain issue – we don’t need human rights.
He further states that human rights treaties are simply the work of “atheists, the Christians, and the fornicators.” The nice thing is that, in the interview below, he adds “with all due respect.”

FlaGator
01-16-2011, 07:41 AM
Seriously?



Concern over apostasy is not unique to Muslims. Many Christians, for instance, worship a god who they believe punishes thoughtcrimes such as apostasy by throwing the guilty into a lake of fire for all eternity. It's a comical belief... but only because it isn't true.

It has been explained to you again and again and yet you persist in attributing believes to Christians and actions to God that are completely untrue. That is comical beyond belief is that in your attempt show your understanding of people of faith you demonstrate an utter lack of understanding.

1) Apostasy is not a thought crime, it is a action.
2) God never has and never will through someone in to a like of fire for all eternity.

Calypso Jones
01-16-2011, 09:37 AM
It didn't stop terrorists from killing christians, as well as policemen and they were protected from prying eyes by the 'shield' that the islamists set up. I think intentionally.

Yukon
01-16-2011, 10:38 AM
Christians dont stone people to death for "apostasy", they dont hang them,. they dont stone women to death for "adultery" and they dont condone paedophilia.

Islam does all all of the above. And more.

Very provoking comments my son. This is why hatred is spreading like a cancer and it is the west who is paying. Calm down your rhetoric and seek out peacefull compromise.

Apache
01-16-2011, 10:52 AM
Very provoking comments my son. This is why hatred is spreading like a cancer and it is the west who is paying. Calm down your rhetoric and seek out peacefull compromise.

Care to clarify this a bit?

AmPat
01-16-2011, 10:57 AM
Very provoking comments my son. This is why hatred is spreading like a cancer and it is the west who is paying. Calm down your rhetoric and seek out peacefull compromise.

Typical liberal crap talk and typically stupid:
Conservative makes a statement of FACT.
Liberal labels it hate speech in a hateful, deceitful manner.
Liberal attempts to pull off a self applied peaceful, reasonable man impersonation.

You fail retard.:cool:

Yukon
01-16-2011, 11:02 AM
Care to clarify this a bit?

Use your head my child. Try figuring it out.

Zathras
01-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Use your head my child. Try figuring it out.

How about answering the fucking question fucktard? Or is your limited intelligence incapable of doings so?

Apache
01-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Use your head my child. Try figuring it out.

Naw, you see I don't want to assume what position you've taken. I wanted YOU in your OWN WORDS to clarify YOUR statement...;)

The Night Owl
01-16-2011, 02:57 PM
It has been explained to you again and again and yet you persist in attributing believes to Christians and actions to God that are completely untrue. That is comical beyond belief is that in your attempt show your understanding of people of faith you demonstrate an utter lack of understanding.

1) Apostasy is not a thought crime, it is a action.
2) God never has and never will through someone in to a like of fire for all eternity.

Revelation 20:15 (King James Version)

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Night Owl
01-16-2011, 03:01 PM
Suicide is not allowed in Islam. Jihadists only allow suicide if it's while waging jihad.

There were no suicide bombers during the Islamic conquests. Muslims are smart enough to know there are ways of killing people other than blowing yourself up next to them.

I don't know why this makes no sense to you? It's pretty simple. :confused:

Committing suicide for the sake of committing suicide is not allowed in Islam, which is not to say that all Muslims even know what is or is not allowed in Islam. Many Muslims, like many Christians, do not know the specifics of their religion.

Yukon
01-16-2011, 03:03 PM
Care to clarify this a bit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon
Very provoking comments my son. This is why hatred is spreading like a cancer and it is the west who is paying. Calm down your rhetoric and seek out peacefull compromise.

APACHE,

Pray tell but what is it you dont understand? I have made a styatement that needs no clarification. If you dont understand what the adults are talking about I suggest you stay out of the conversation. I suggest you try to reconcile with your conscience why you would force a child to carry a fetus to term that resuklted from a rape. That is what you should be doing not asking me to explain simple statements to you.

The Night Owl
01-16-2011, 03:13 PM
Christians dont stone people to death for "apostasy", they dont hang them,. they dont stone women to death for "adultery" and they dont condone paedophilia.

Islam does all all of the above. And more.

The Bible teaches that those who commit sins such as apostasy are worthy of death...


Romans 1:29-32 (King James Version)

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So, if the Bible is to be believed, what is wrong with killing apostates?

Calypso Jones
01-16-2011, 03:13 PM
odd isn't it. Muslims are very concerned about their own lives but not so much the lives of others.

Yukon
01-16-2011, 03:18 PM
The Book of Romans is in the Old Testament which is the Jewish section of the Bible. The Jews do not accept the New Testament because Jesus is the Son of God and is proclaimed as such in the New Testament. I accept the New Testament only, Jesus tell us to Love thy neighbour, and to Turn the other cheek, He salos asks us to cast the first stone if we have not sinned.

Please do not call yourself a Christian and quote the sins for which we should murder our fellow man - JESUS taught the opposite.

Apache
01-16-2011, 03:27 PM
The Book of Romans is in the Old Testament which is the Jewish section of the Bible. The Jews do not accept the New Testament because Jesus is the Son of God and is proclaimed as such in the New Testament. I accept the New Testament only, Jesus tell us to Love thy neighbour, and to Turn the other cheek, He salos asks us to cast the first stone if we have not sinned.

Please do not call yourself a Christian and quote the sins for which we should murder our fellow man - JESUS taught the opposite.

Um you might actually want to look at a Bible. Romans is an epistle by Paul in the NEW TESTAMENT. Learn something you're going to argue about...:rolleyes:

Zathras
01-16-2011, 03:31 PM
More drivel, no intellect behind it.

Fixed for accuracy.

This is fun....everyone should do it to Pukeon.

Bleda
01-17-2011, 02:01 AM
Committing suicide for the sake of committing suicide is not allowed in Islam, which is not to say that all Muslims even know what is or is not allowed in Islam. Many Muslims, like many Christians, do not know the specifics of their religion.

I'm sure in some alternate universe this is somehow a response to what I said. :confused:

The Night Owl
01-17-2011, 09:02 AM
The Book of Romans is in the Old Testament which is the Jewish section of the Bible. The Jews do not accept the New Testament because Jesus is the Son of God and is proclaimed as such in the New Testament. I accept the New Testament only, Jesus tell us to Love thy neighbour, and to Turn the other cheek, He salos asks us to cast the first stone if we have not sinned.

Please do not call yourself a Christian and quote the sins for which we should murder our fellow man - JESUS taught the opposite.

Two points-- I'm not a Christian and Jesus is a god of war, not peace. He even said so.

FlaGator
01-17-2011, 09:17 AM
Two points-- I'm not a Christian and Jesus is a god of war, not peace. He even said so.

He never said such a thing. What he said was

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

What that means is that his mere presence on Earth is going to cause division because some will believe in him and some will not. His desire is for peace, mankind's desire is for war and some who believe in him will wrongly go to war for His sake and and some who don't believe with wrongly go to war to kill those who believe.

Since you are not a Christian and don't have a good grasp of the subject then why do you insist on making a fool out of yourself by speaking on such matter? You know what they say about what to do when you find yourself in a hole don't you?

Yukon
01-17-2011, 09:19 AM
"...and Jesus is a god of war, not peace..."



BLASPHEMY !

FlaGator
01-17-2011, 09:37 AM
Revelation 20:15 (King James Version)

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


You misunderstand the metaphor and once again show you complete lack of understanding. You break a law and the judge sentences you to prison. Is it the judge's fault that you are punished or it is yours for breaking the law? You can't behave in society, you reject the rules of civil living and you are placed in prison. Has society cast you in that prison or have you elected to violate your societal responsibilities and chosen to accept the consequence of that choice? You reject society's rules so society is forced to put you in a place where sociey's rules no apply.

Do you know what hell is? It is the absence of God. Your rejection of God leaves God with no choice but you do as you desire and be removed from his presence. You don't want to be in the presence of God and accept what that entails so God gives you what you want.

Muse on two thoughts by C. S. Lewis. First from the Great Divorce: "The gates of hell are locked from the inside"

And from Mere Christianity: "There are two kinds of people in the world. There are those who say to God 'thy will be done' and those to whom God says 'thy will be done.'

God does not cast you into hell. You opt for hell. He gave you the keys to let yourself out and you have chosen to lock yourself in.

The Night Owl
01-17-2011, 09:50 AM
Since you are not a Christian and don't have a good grasp of the subject then why do you insist on making a fool out of yourself by speaking on such matter? You know what they say about what to do when you find yourself in a hole don't you?

One need not believe that the book The Lord of the Rings is true to be an expert on it, which isn't to say I'm an expert on the Bible (far from it). :D


God does not cast you into hell. You opt for hell. He gave you the keys to let yourself out and you have chosen to lock yourself in.

It doesn't matter who does the actual casting because it's by God's authority that souls go where they go.

FlaGator
01-17-2011, 10:06 AM
One need not believe that the book The Lord of the Rings is true to be an expert on it, which isn't to say I'm an expert on the Bible (far from it). :D

That is about the worst parallel you ever made. The Lord of the Rings was not written to be source of truth on which one could live his or her life. The books serve too entirely different purposes. If you were an expert on the Lord of the Rings and you did believe that events it describes actually happened then you would have some really bad cognitive issues undermining your sanity.

I personally tend not to quote sources that I don't fully grasp. I would not quote the Lord of the Rings if I didn't understand the context from which I was drawing the quote. If you are going to argue against Christian concepts such as hell or salvation it is best to understand what those believes actually are.

FlaGator
01-17-2011, 10:15 AM
It doesn't matter who does the actual casting because it's by God's authority that souls go where they go.

Souls who believe and practice what that belief entails go with God. Souls that do not believe or that believe but don't practice what that belief entails move away from God. By your life choices you either pull near of push away from God. Hell is just the place that the road you chose takes you to.

The Night Owl
01-17-2011, 10:19 AM
That is about the worst parallel you ever made. The Lord of the Rings was not written to be source of truth on which one could live his or her life. The books serve too entirely different purposes. If you were an expert on the Lord of the Rings and you did believe that events it describes actually happened then you would have some really bad cognitive issues undermining your sanity.

Following your logic, I would have to conclude that only Muslims speak authoritatively on Islam. And following your logic further I would have to conclude that this thread is pointless.

FlaGator
01-17-2011, 10:42 AM
Following your logic, I would have to conclude that only Muslims speak authoritatively on Islam. And following your logic further I would have to conclude that this thread is pointless.

Apparently you have trouble following logic but based on your scientific views that doesn't surprise me none. Were I to sit down and study the Koran then I can speak knowledgeably on Islam with out being a Muslim. Likewise if I want to quote a couple of verses from the Koran that I believe prove my point I would probably find a commentary by a Muslim on those verses in order to make sure that I understand what they mean from a Islamic view and in what context they are to be viewed. This keeps me from looking like a fool.

What you do is to toss out a verse you or two you think you understand and that supports your premise and then try to defend your incorrect view when challenged and basically dig a deeper hole for yourself. Hey! That's ok. You keep posting and I'll keep correcting you.