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View Full Version : Opinions of Andrew Jackson?



CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Well...?

Adam Wood
01-10-2011, 06:06 PM
He was a pretty good shot.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 06:13 PM
He's also pretty dead.

megimoo
01-10-2011, 06:13 PM
He was a pretty good shot.Not as good as Aron Burr !

Madisonian
01-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Did not care for Heston's portrayal of him in "The Buccaneers", but thought Yul Brynner did a decent job as LaFitte.

Starbuck
01-10-2011, 06:39 PM
Not only was he a good shot, but he was one cool customer after being shot himself! Although wounded with a ball lodged in his chest, he took careful aim and drilled his opponent. Drilled him dead, too.

Andy was lucky. He was the subject of an assassination attempt and the assassin's pistols both misfired. Later, the pistols were examined and found to be loaded and primed properly. They just didn't go off.

Indians don't like him much. Tail of Tears stuff. Can't blame them.

But he broke up the Bank of The United States, which had grown to the point that its directors were more powerful than any politician. They decided who they would loan to and stuck it to anyone who disagreed with them. That's why his picture is on the 20 dollar bill.

His cabinet was pretty much destroyed by a loose woman named Peggy (is that right?) Eaton, who evidently had slept with so many men in Washington that none of the cabinet members wives would attend a function if she attended. She was married to John Eaton - I think he was Sec'y of War, or maybe Defense.

His wife died after he was elected, but before he could assume office. She didn't want to go to Washington, anyway. So to run the White House he turned to his niece (I think she was a natural niece) who, although a very young 22 or so managed to pull it off for years for him. He loved her dearly but she died, too. Can't remember her name.

I recommend the book "American Lion"..............you'll come away with new respect and understanding of "Ol Hickory".
I think I'll read it again.

Overall, I really like Andy. He was an original. He did things his way and made sure they were done his way. He did not test the winds the way so many do these days. He just went for it. If he were on one of todays football teams he would play both Middle Linebacker and Quarterback.:)

He died in Nashville. I made a special trip up there once to visit all the places and memorabilia. One of his ex-slaves was asked he he might be in heaven and the slave answered, "If that's where he wanta be, then that's where he is", or words to that effect.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 06:40 PM
Not as good as Aron Burr !

Ha! :D

Odysseus
01-10-2011, 07:15 PM
Not as good as Aron Burr !

But just as dead.

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 07:19 PM
This goes here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLSsswr6z9Y

megimoo
01-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Ha! :DYou smirk me sir .Is that a disagreement ?

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 07:44 PM
You smirk me sir .Is than a disagreement ?

Are you inciting me? :p

megimoo
01-10-2011, 07:46 PM
Are you inciting me? :p
I am that !Name two men killed in duels with the same set of pistols in the same place ?

Articulate_Ape
01-10-2011, 08:03 PM
I am that !Name two men killed in duels with the same set of pistols in the same place ?

Counting John Wayne movies and Old Tuscon Studios?

Starbuck
01-10-2011, 09:28 PM
I am that !Name two men killed in duels with the same set of pistols in the same place ?
OK. Lessee...wasn't Lincoln, cause he chose broadswords and the other guy saw immediate benefit in reaching a settlement....as in, "I ain't takin on that long, lanky, sumbitch!"

Nah. Both Alex Hamilton and his son were killed with the same pistols. Same place.
Mrs. Hamilton had some bad days, I'm tellin ya.

Bubba Dawg
01-10-2011, 10:40 PM
OK. Lessee...wasn't Lincoln, cause he chose broadswords and the other guy saw immediate benefit in reaching a settlement....as in, "I ain't takin on that long, lanky, sumbitch!"

Nah. Both Alex Hamilton and his son were killed with the same pistols. Same place.
Mrs. Hamilton had some bad days, I'm tellin ya.

Young Hamilton was a son of a gun.

NJCardFan
01-11-2011, 01:44 AM
Counting John Wayne movies and Old Tuscon Studios?

Hey, I've been there. As for Old Hickory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0&feature=related

megimoo
01-11-2011, 02:53 AM
OK. Lessee...wasn't Lincoln, cause he chose broadswords and the other guy saw immediate benefit in reaching a settlement....as in, "I ain't takin on that long, lanky, sumbitch!"

Nah. Both Alex Hamilton and his son were killed with the same pistols. Same place.
Mrs. Hamilton had some bad days, I'm tellin ya.Good work but poor on compassion .The son was killed by an Aron Burr henchman,the father by Burr himself .You could say that Hamilton was a Burr under Burrs Butt...It Just goes to show that politics always has been a dirty business.

Tecate
01-11-2011, 02:56 AM
Not only was he a good shot, but he was one cool customer after being shot himself! Although wounded with a ball lodged in his chest, he took careful aim and drilled his opponent. Drilled him dead, too.

Andy was lucky. He was the subject of an assassination attempt and the assassin's pistols both misfired. Later, the pistols were examined and found to be loaded and primed properly. They just didn't go off.

Indians don't like him much. Tail of Tears stuff. Can't blame them.

But he broke up the Bank of The United States, which had grown to the point that its directors were more powerful than any politician. They decided who they would loan to and stuck it to anyone who disagreed with them. That's why his picture is on the 20 dollar bill.

His cabinet was pretty much destroyed by a loose woman named Peggy (is that right?) Eaton, who evidently had slept with so many men in Washington that none of the cabinet members wives would attend a function if she attended. She was married to John Eaton - I think he was Sec'y of War, or maybe Defense.

His wife died after he was elected, but before he could assume office. She didn't want to go to Washington, anyway. So to run the White House he turned to his niece (I think she was a natural niece) who, although a very young 22 or so managed to pull it off for years for him. He loved her dearly but she died, too. Can't remember her name.

I recommend the book "American Lion"..............you'll come away with new respect and understanding of "Ol Hickory".
I think I'll read it again.

Overall, I really like Andy. He was an original. He did things his way and made sure they were done his way. He did not test the winds the way so many do these days. He just went for it. If he were on one of todays football teams he would play both Middle Linebacker and Quarterback.:)

He died in Nashville. I made a special trip up there once to visit all the places and memorabilia. One of his ex-slaves was asked he he might be in heaven and the slave answered, "If that's where he wanta be, then that's where he is", or words to that effect.
And then came 1913 and the federal reserve act... Everything Jackson fought against in the world of banking still managed to unfold, but why should we worry when JP Morgan Chase is there to issue the food stamps and unemployment debit cards? Then there's Goldman Sachs and their high-frequency trading scams...

Unfortunately for us, there's nothing new under the Sun. The same crooks still run everything - well, their grandchildren do now.

Molon Labe
01-11-2011, 09:17 AM
And then came 1913 and the federal reserve act... Everything Jackson fought against in the world of banking still managed to unfold, but why should we worry when JP Morgan Chase is there to issue the food stamps and unemployment debit cards? Then there's Goldman Sachs and their high-frequency trading scams...

Unfortunately for us, there's nothing new under the Sun. The same crooks still run everything - well, their grandchildren do now.

Yep Jackson was the last one to stand up em. One of the greats.

fettpett
01-11-2011, 10:59 AM
However Jackson's bank busting sent us into a depression that lasted several years and cost Van Buren the Presidency. He's one of the biggest reasons for screwing up US-Indian relations. If it wasn't for the Trail of Tears, that the Supreme Court ruled was Unconstitutional, many of the problems associated with the west after the Civil War could have been avoided

Odysseus
01-11-2011, 12:00 PM
Good work but poor on compassion .The son was killed by an Aron Burr henchman,the father by Burr himself .You could say that Hamilton was a Burr under Burrs Butt...It Just goes to show that politics always has been a dirty business.

Yes, but it would be cleaner if dueling were still permitted. Imagine the things that leftists wouldn't dare say out loud if they knew that they could be called out for them.

noonwitch
01-11-2011, 12:24 PM
I don't really know that much about Jackson's presidency. I know he was the victor as a general in the Battle of New Orleans. I know that as a general, he had the occasion to meet the Bell Witch of Tennesee, which is one of the scariest real ghost stories I've ever read. Not only that, the spirit didn't torment him, like it did to a lot of other people it met. She or he respected Jackson.

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 12:38 PM
And then came 1913 and the federal reserve act... Everything Jackson fought against in the world of banking still managed to unfold, but why should we worry when JP Morgan Chase is there to issue the food stamps and unemployment debit cards? Then there's Goldman Sachs and their high-frequency trading scams...

Unfortunately for us, there's nothing new under the Sun. The same crooks still run everything - well, their grandchildren do now.
Not precisely.

President Tyler, who became President when Wlm Harrison died of pneumonia, vetoed a bill that would have re-established a national bank, and caught hell for doing it, too. Darn near his whole cabinet resigned in protest. Impeachment papers were drawn up. But Tyler held firm. That was about 1844, so Jackson's efforts stood as he wanted.
I don't think the banking system we have today is anything like what it would have been like if Jackson and Tyler had not stood their ground. True enough, we have some big players, but we don't have a national bank. Lehman Bros executives will tell you that even the largest of financial institutions need to keep their house in order.

PoliCon
01-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Jackson was a racist. He invented the American political spoils system. He founded the Democratic party. He was a mixed bag financially - he was for high tarrifs but against a national bank - prolly only because the national bank was against him. He also was a damn fool wanting direct popular elections. :rolleyes:

fettpett
01-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Jackson was a racist. He invented the American political spoils system. He founded the Democratic party. He was a mixed bag financially - he was for high tarrifs but against a national bank - prolly only because the national bank was against him. He also was a damn fool wanting direct popular elections. :rolleyes:

QFT

the man screwed the country in many ways, even if he was extremely popular at the time. One has to wonder how much innovation and expansion was depressed because he destroyed the Bank and caused not one but 2 major depressions, 1836-38 and 1839-43

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-11-2011, 01:24 PM
QFT

the man screwed the country in many ways, even if he was extremely popular at the time. One has to wonder how much innovation and expansion was depressed because he destroyed the Bank and caused not one but 2 major depressions, 1836-38 and 1839-43

But isn't the idea of a National Bank a bad thing?

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Jackson paid off the national debt. It later ballooned when the financial panic occurred about 1840 +.

He was the first President to fire all the department heads - an action which still goes on, although I am not convinced it is still a good idea.
Term limits are a good idea, however, and Jackson promoted that idea.

He probably forestalled the Civil War by taking on South Carolina and challenging their claim that they had the right to nullify any law passed by the federal gov't with which they disagreed. Had someone like him resided in the White House after 1845, the war may have been avoided altogether. Maybe.

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 01:46 PM
But isn't the idea of a National Bank a bad thing?

I think it is. In Jackson's time the bank had their favorites and promoted them and them only. He felt - and I feel - that having only one authority to go to to promote your idea or business is a red carpet for trouble to arrive.

Also, he said that banks had a history of promoting wars so that the banks could bankroll them. I don't know about that, but I suppose it could be true. I know newspapers had that habit of promoting wars.

fettpett
01-11-2011, 01:50 PM
But isn't the idea of a National Bank a bad thing?

i didn't say it was good or bad, only that he screwed up the economy when he got rid of it.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-11-2011, 01:52 PM
I think it is. In Jackson's time the bank had their favorites and promoted them and them only. He felt - and I feel - that having only one authority to go to to promote your idea or business is a red carpet for trouble to arrive.

Also, he said that banks had a history of promoting wars so that the banks could bankroll them. I don't know about that, but I suppose it could be true. I know newspapers had that habit of promoting wars.

Well, it sounds like a National Bank, at least in the type that existed in Jackson's time, even if started with the best of intentions, could become a sort of oligarchy, and could become the de facto leadership of the government.

CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-11-2011, 01:54 PM
i didn't say it was good or bad, only that he screwed up the economy when he got rid of it.

Yeah, but isn't short term pain sometimes beneficial for the long term good?
If in the long run having the bank meant immense corruption and troubles for the US, was it's destruction worth a short time, even if immensely painful, depression?

megimoo
01-11-2011, 01:57 PM
Yes, but it would be cleaner if dueling were still permitted. Imagine the things that leftists wouldn't dare say out loud if they knew that they could be called out for them.

Liberals wouldn't have enough balls to fight a duel .Can you imagine fat Barney fag or dirty Harry Reid in a duel ?They would need to wear depends if they were even able to stand up on a field of honor.

Molon Labe
01-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Jackson was a racist. He invented the American political spoils system. He founded the Democratic party. He was a mixed bag financially - he was for high tarrifs but against a national bank - prolly only because the national bank was against him. He also was a damn fool wanting direct popular elections. :rolleyes:

Most people were racists in 1800's. Jackson wouldn't even recognize the modern Democratic party today.

PoliCon
01-11-2011, 02:49 PM
Most people were racists in 1800's. Jackson wouldn't even recognize the modern Democratic party today.

He wouldn't? Jackson had his equivalent of the czars - the Kitchen Cabinet . . . he was all about political appointments . . . .All about veiling racism in the pretense of doing what's best for the people involved . . . . I think he would well and truly recognize the party he founded.

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 06:31 PM
He wouldn't? Jackson had his equivalent of the czars - the Kitchen Cabinet . . . he was all about political appointments . . . .All about veiling racism in the pretense of doing what's best for the people involved . . . . I think he would well and truly recognize the party he founded.
Oh, I doubt it. In Jackson's time Blacks, Indians, and Women couldn't even vote, let alone have a voice in the operation of things.
He did purport to stand up for the common man. But at the same time I am stuck on the idea that the common man in 1840 was much better informed than todays common man.
There would have been no reason to veil his racism since no one to speak of had any objection to it. It was accepted that non-white people were inferior to whites. Racism wasn't even a word until 1936. I acknowledge that it existed, understand, it just wasn't a word. So there was no reason to disguise it in order to cover some nefarious motive.
http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/oracism.html

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 06:33 PM
Yeah, but isn't short term pain sometimes beneficial for the long term good?
If in the long run having the bank meant immense corruption and troubles for the US, was it's destruction worth a short time, even if immensely painful, depression?
That's exactly the position I take.

fettpett
01-11-2011, 07:05 PM
Yeah, but isn't short term pain sometimes beneficial for the long term good?
If in the long run having the bank meant immense corruption and troubles for the US, was it's destruction worth a short time, even if immensely painful, depression?

yes, if there was something to replace the National Bank I would have agree. However the State banks were all about speculation, particularly on land and that whole part of the economy is like buying Carbon Credits, a farce and waste of resources and many. many, MANY men lost their shirts off their backs, including many well known figures in history.

On top of that there was no National currency like there is today, states and Banks had their own currency. It didn't work very well.

Jackson was a very bitter man, especially after Rachel died. He brought more harm than good to the US economy and the Country as a whole.

The Nullification Crisis did nothing more than prolong the issues that lead to the Civil War. The only reason he went after South Carolina is because they were defying HIS authority and Calhoun pissed him off, In fact he probably made things worse by threating military action against South Carolina. The only way that it was resolved was by Congress repealing the Tariffs of Abomination and the "Force Bill" being passed ON THE SAME DAY, saving face for both sides. (Forced Bill was passed to Authorize Jackson to declare war on South Carolina while the Tariffs were reduced to a level that South Carolina could support).

Nothing was solved and only delayed a resolution by 20 years and caused even more bloodshed than would have happened in the 1840's.

PoliCon
01-11-2011, 09:27 PM
There would have been no reason to veil his racism since no one to speak of had any objection to it. It was accepted that non-white people were inferior to whites. You may speak true of the southern slave holders and rednecks - but that was not universally true. There were plenty of people north and even some in the south who disagreed with what you claim the believed.

Adam Wood
01-11-2011, 09:59 PM
Well, it sounds like a National Bank, at least in the type that existed in Jackson's time, even if started with the best of intentions, could become a sort of oligarchy, and could become the de facto leadership of the government.One of those historical "road to Hell" lessons.

Personally, I don't think that a national bank is a de facto bad thing. It has great potential for good efficiencies, from an economic standpoint. A "central clearinghouse," if you will. But, like any tool, it's something that can be easily misused. And if there's any entity in the world that knows how to misuse the hell out of a tool, it's the federal government.