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CaughtintheMiddle1990
01-11-2011, 03:32 PM
Spurred on by some comments in my Andrew Jackson thread.
As we know, President Jackson (like many of his contemporaries) was fond of dueling. In it's time, it was a way for men to settle disagreements--Sometimes petty ones, sometimes disagreements founded on the idea that one's honor, or the honor of one they loved, had been denigrated. And the men who dueled would enter into the agreement voluntarily, knowing full well that it was likely only one man would come out alive.

Some today would call such a means of settling disagreements barbaric, and I believe it's outlawed here in America today. But am I the only one who actually supports dueling?

I feel as long as it's entered into voluntarily with both sides knowing the consequences, I don't see what the problem is. I think our forefathers, here and abroad, valued honor, agreements and masculinity a lot more than we do, and I see dueling as an outgrowth of that love of honor.

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't support it.

Words are better weapons.

Check out this movie. Ridley Scott. Beautifully filmed. Amazing story reportedly based on the story of a pair of officers in the army of Napoleon in the 17th century who fought a series of duels over the course of their lives.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075968/

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ5NTIwMzQ0OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTI1ODU5._V1._ SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

Rockntractor
01-11-2011, 05:58 PM
I would support dueling among Democrats.

malloc
01-11-2011, 05:59 PM
I wouldn't support it.


Does that mean you won't duel yourself, or you would support laws that prevent consenting adults from this behavior?

Starbuck
01-11-2011, 06:13 PM
I saw a duel once:
We had pulled into Olongapo, The Philippines for R&R after a 2 week routine patrol into The Mekong Delta.

We got drunk. The crew of a minesweep is not all that large, so we all knew each other well. When we got drunk, we all got drunk. Anyone who has been in the Navy can attest to the fact that San Miguel beer can make sailors do very strange things.

So one of the Boatswains got to jawing with one of the Gunners. Just jawing. But the next thing we knew, they had agreed to a duel. Yeah! Yeah! Duel!.........And then it got to the point where no one would back down.
We had a Chief Quartermaster with us, so he made up the rules. Here they were:
45's would be used.
Each 45 would be laid out disassembled on a blanket, which was placed at either end of a grinder (it's like a parking lot). One bullet would be provided for each party.
The two combatants were assembled back to back in the middle of the grinder. When the whistle was blown, each man would sprint to his weapon, assemble it, load it and fire from where ever he wanted. If he wanted to take his chances and charge the enemy, so be it. If someone wanted to just keep on running; so be it. He would lose.

Whatever they wanted to do.

Hell, that grinder musta been a mile long! On top of that it was dark!

Those two fools took off running. Two drunk, out of shape sailors. They both made it to their blankets and were actually quite efficient at assembling their 45s. But naturally, the Gunner finished first. While the Boatswain was still struggling with his pistol, the Gunner wets his finger, elevates his 45 to about 30 degrees or so and fires away. The Boatswain hears the shot and inexplicably covers his head! When it was apparent that the incoming round was no danger to man nor beast (we don't know where it went) the Boatswain started laughing. He eventually got his weapon assembled and loaded and just fired his round into the air.

A draw!

But we made those two guys buy drinks for the rest of the night.:)

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Does that mean you won't duel yourself, or you would support laws that prevent consenting adults from this behavior?

Both.

Articulate_Ape
01-11-2011, 08:06 PM
I wouldn't support it.

Words are better weapons.



Well said, sir.

Dueling with weapons may settle one argument with extreme prejudice, but it creates as many new ones as the loser had true family and friends. Dueling of the mind leaves only the weaker idea as a casualty to await its coup de grāce.

I'm pretty sure that the former was not as nearly as romantic as one might think, and pretty sure that the latter offers a more lasting satisfaction in the realm of honor.

I could be wrong, but that hasn't happened yet. :D

malloc
01-11-2011, 08:11 PM
Both.
Well said, sir.

Dueling with weapons may settle one argument with extreme prejudice, but it creates as many new ones as the loser had true family and friends. Dueling of the mind leaves only the weaker idea as a casualty to await its coup de grāce.

I'm pretty sure that the former was not as nearly as romantic as one might think, and pretty sure that the latter offers a more lasting satisfaction in the realm of honor.

I could be wrong, but that hasn't happened yet. :D

I'm not really sure where I would be. On one hand, two consenting adults have the right to enter into agreements to solve problems. However, this seems like it could end up in death, without the benefit of due process. Then on the first foot, a duel would be much cheaper and less public spectacle than a lawsuit.

Articulate_Ape
01-11-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm not really sure where I would be. On one hand, two consenting adults have the right to enter into agreements to solve problems. However, this seems like it could end up in death, without the benefit of due process. Then on the first foot, a duel would be much cheaper and less public spectacle than a lawsuit.

Perhaps, but last I knew law suits don't ambush you on your way home from work one night and cut your throat. I think that we get a pretty good glance at the duel mentality when we examine "private" conflicts between drug cartels and other organized crime "families", and sectarian disputes from Islamic to Sikh.

It looks great in theory and in fiction, but reality is never that clear-cut -- ever.

malloc
01-11-2011, 08:23 PM
Perhaps, but last I knew law suits don't ambush you on your way home from work one night and cut your throat. I think that we get a pretty good glance at the duel mentality when we examine "private" conflicts between drug cartels and other organized crime "families", and sectarian disputes from Islamic to Sikh.

It looks great in theory and in fiction, but reality is never that clear-cut -- ever.

I was expecting the more long swords at dawn version and less of the Motague V. Capulet.

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:24 PM
I'm not really sure where I would be. On one hand, two consenting adults have the right to enter into agreements to solve problems. However, this seems like it could end up in death, without the benefit of due process. Then on the first foot, a duel would be much cheaper and less public spectacle than a lawsuit.

It does not end in the death of one or the other duelists in all cases. What frequently happens is the conflict is carried on in the families involved.

Living by the feud is bad whether it involves the Montagues and Capulets or the Hatfields and McCoys. The cost seldom ends with the principals directly involved.

Articulate_Ape
01-11-2011, 08:25 PM
I was expecting the more long swords at dawn version and less of the Motague V. Capulet.

Yeah well, this ain't Highlander and there's almost always more than one. ;)

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Yeah well, this ain't Highlander and there's almost always more than one. ;)

They can't be but one, Budzo. :p

I knew of (didn't personally know) a couple of young males who wanted to date the same girl. They decided to settle it in a game of 'chicken" with their vehicles. They ran head-on into each other. One died. The "winner" didn't apparently winds up with the girl either.

Articulate_Ape
01-11-2011, 08:33 PM
They can't be but one, Budzo. :p


Shh, I know. I'm him. :D

malloc
01-11-2011, 08:34 PM
They can't be but one, Budzo. :p

I knew of (didn't personally know) a couple of young males who wanted to date the same girl. They decided to settle it in a game of 'chicken" with their vehicles. They ran head-on into each other. One died. The "winner" didn't apparently winds up with the girl either.

I'd imagine the "winner" here was somewhat less of a man after the fact than he was when he started, and let's face it, the real winner was the girl who got out of the men who would run their cars into each other for dominance.

On another note, a tazer duel would be incredibly entertaining....

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Shh, I know. I'm him. :D

Noooo. I'm him. :mad:

I challenge you to a Monkey Shit Fight. At the Zoo. Tomorrow.

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:36 PM
I'd imagine the "winner" here was somewhat less of a man after the fact than he was when he started, and let's face it, the real winner was the girl who got out of the men who would run their cars into each other for dominance.

On another note, a tazer duel would be incredibly entertaining....

Yes it would.

It really would. Especially chicks with tazers going after each other. :)

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:42 PM
I've been thinking about that.

Chicks in wet t-shirts, bikini bottoms and rubber boots going after each other with tazers.

Wow. Just, Wow.

Articulate_Ape
01-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Noooo. I'm him. :mad:

I challenge you to a Monkey Shit Fight. At the Zoo. Tomorrow.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/JamesSavant/NOU-1.jpg

Bubba Dawg
01-11-2011, 08:50 PM
http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/JamesSavant/NOU-1.jpg

:eek::p

megimoo
01-11-2011, 09:00 PM
I saw a duel once:
We had pulled into Olongapo, The Philippines for R&R after a 2 week routine patrol into The Mekong Delta.

We got drunk. The crew of a minesweep is not all that large, so we all knew each other well. When we got drunk, we all got drunk. Anyone who has been in the Navy can attest to the fact that San Miguel beer can make sailors do very strange things.

So one of the Boatswains got to jawing with one of the Gunners. Just jawing. But the next thing we knew, they had agreed to a duel. Yeah! Yeah! Duel!.........And then it got to the point where no one would back down.
We had a Chief Quartermaster with us, so he made up the rules. Here they were:
45's would be used.
Each 45 would be laid out disassembled on a blanket, which was placed at either end of a grinder (it's like a parking lot). One bullet would be provided for each party.
The two combatants were assembled back to back in the middle of the grinder. When the whistle was blown, each man would sprint to his weapon, assemble it, load it and fire from where ever he wanted. If he wanted to take his chances and charge the enemy, so be it. If someone wanted to just keep on running; so be it. He would lose.

Whatever they wanted to do.

Hell, that grinder musta been a mile long! On top of that it was dark!

Those two fools took off running. Two drunk, out of shape sailors. They both made it to their blankets and were actually quite efficient at assembling their 45s. But naturally, the Gunner finished first. While the Boatswain was still struggling with his pistol, the Gunner wets his finger, elevates his 45 to about 30 degrees or so and fires away. The Boatswain hears the shot and inexplicably covers his head! When it was apparent that the incoming round was no danger to man nor beast (we don't know where it went) the Boatswain started laughing. He eventually got his weapon assembled and loaded and just fired his round into the air.

A draw!

But we made those two guys buy drinks for the rest of the night.:)I knew that I liked you for some reason,Navy !Olongapo,shit city on the bay.Home of the first Marine division and some of the dirtiest whores in south east Asia .I drew more shore patrol in that hole and pulled more drunks out of those stinking canals than I care to remember.We would make a sweep about every hour to head off the fights between the jar heads and swabs.More that once I was involved in pulling some drunk out of a knife fight between two whores over his ship over money .The smell of those whores breath after they ate a few baluts or fertilized, duck egg embryo was enough to gag a maggot .You had to keep your hand on your .45 when ever they got too close .

NJCardFan
01-12-2011, 01:47 AM
I had a duel with paintball guns before. And, yes, alcohol was involved.

Rockntractor
01-12-2011, 01:58 AM
I had a duel with paintball guns before. And, yes, alcohol was involved.

Who won?

PoliCon
01-12-2011, 03:35 AM
I had a duel with paintball guns before. And, yes, alcohol was involved.

Does Mortal Kombat count as dueling? :confused:

NJCardFan
01-12-2011, 10:36 AM
Who won?

I'm not sure, really. We were both covered in paint blotches. I guess we both did because we got sloshed in the process.

Starbuck
01-12-2011, 11:28 AM
I knew that I liked you for some reason,Navy !Olongapo,shit city on the bay.Home of the first Marine division and some of the dirtiest whores in south east Asia .I drew more shore patrol in that hole and pulled more drunks out of those stinking canals than I care to remember.We would make a sweep about every hour to head off the fights between the jar heads and swabs.More that once I was involved in pulling some drunk out of a knife fight between two whores over his ship over money .The smell of those whores breath after they ate a few baluts or fertilized, duck egg embryo was enough to gag a maggot .You had to keep your hand on your .45 when ever they got too close .

If you've been to Olongapo, had the San Miguel shits, ridden in a Jeepney, gotten serious with some of those whores, and gotten to where you liked it, you were really a sailor! We even got overnight liberty.
I came back to the states in 69, and was homesick for Olongapo for a long time...:)
But one of the greatest adventures of my life was taking that minesweep across the Pacific. 45 days. At one point she rolled 54 degrees.

megimoo
01-12-2011, 12:42 PM
If you've been to Olongapo, had the San Miguel shits, ridden in a Jeepney, gotten serious with some of those whores, and gotten to where you liked it, you were really a sailor! We even got overnight liberty.
I came back to the states in 69, and was homesick for Olongapo for a long time...:)
But one of the greatest adventures of my life was taking that minesweep across the Pacific. 45 days. At one point she rolled 54 degrees.
I was stationed on a heavy Cruiser and Olangapo was part of our duty station.Six months in Westpac Six months California .Subic bay,Olangapo,Corregidor Kobe and Yokosuka .Spent most of the time in the south China sea keeping Red China away from Formosa .

We had the Comcrudiv 5, flag and our rear Admiral was queer for Typhoons.We would steam off of Okinawa in a full force twelve blow for days at a time .He would detach the destroyers and they would run for shelter,we would suffer it out .

Starbuck
01-12-2011, 02:27 PM
I was stationed on a heavy Cruiser and Olangapo was part of our duty station.Six months in Westpac Six months California .Subic bay,Olangapo,Corregidor Kobe and Yokosuka .Spent most of the time in the south China sea keeping Red China away from Formosa .

We had the Comcrudiv 5, flag and our rear Admiral was queer for Typhoons.We would steam off of Okinawa in a full force twelve blow for days at a time .He would detach the destroyers and they would run for shelter,we would suffer it out .

Those are good adventures. I was in 9 years. Both coasts; Med cruise, Caribbean cruise, ET(A) school, ET(B) school, 6 months MAP team assigned to Colombian Navy, 6 Months MAP team assigned to Philippine Navy, MinePac for a year, and finished as co-pilot of Plainview -AGHE(H)-1. Out in '71. I miss it and talk about it to this day.

Our Admiral (USS Pocono) in the Med was John McCain. I was never so terrified of a human being in my life. If he had asked me to jump over the side I would not have hesitated.

But he never asked any of us to duel....(wouldn't want to hijack the thread, you know:))