Carol
01-11-2011, 09:02 PM
link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x177493)
Here's a good dose of liberal logic:
wiggs (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan-11-11 07:07 PM
Original message
If, after a tragedy such as last weekend's, your group has to spend countless
hours defending itself and justifying its behavior...and a media storm of discussion and analysis is dedicated to possible connections between your group and the violence....and if it is unclear if your group has crossed a line or not...and we're down to posting a dozen kinds of bullseyes and gunsights....and honest people have differing opinions on your group's responsibility...and there are recordings and documents which show that criticisms are not far-fetched or fabricated, then...
...then YOUR GROUP IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG, regardless whether or not in the end 51% of the nation sides with you OR if attorneys general can't find criminal behavior in your group OR if this shooter has no technical connection with your group's message. Clearly, your group is on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ISSUE and no amount of diversion or discussion of who said what or comparing of gunsight graphics can distance your group from the fundamental problem. It has to be made clear that the RW is not absolved of irresponsible, undemocratic behavior just because a photo of Glenn Beck isn't found in Loughner's underwear drawer.
It seems to me that, since this is not a court of law in which there's a guilty or not-guilty verdict, we (public) should be able to handle two conclusions at once....that possibly this guy acted in a vacuum without contact with toxic RW news and pundits...AND...the RW is and has been on the wrong side of the rhetoric issue, playing a terrible, dangerous, and incendiary game of hate, fear, and violence for political and fundraising gain.
The latter point should be self-evident and an easy case to make, since there are probably hundreds of incidents of low-road hateful campaigning and tricks going back only as far as Rove and Bush getting together. I don't see how there could be an easier or more obvious case to make if someone were interested in detailed analysis.
However, just as they did with the torture issue, the RW and their corporatist enablers will see to it that the larger issue is reduced down to something debatable and gray. It doesn't have to be that way.
Translation:
We can accuse you of anything we want and if you defend yourself then it means you're guilty.
And even if there isn't any EVIDENCE or PROOF that you are guilty, you are because we say that you are.
And of course the usual: The definition of hateful and violent words are those WE don't agree with, by those we don't agree with.
They know that they are losing the debate over this so now they are trying to turn it around - and say - well maybe there isn't a direct link, but they are guilty anyway.
I've read a number of threads today saying similar things.
Here's a good dose of liberal logic:
wiggs (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan-11-11 07:07 PM
Original message
If, after a tragedy such as last weekend's, your group has to spend countless
hours defending itself and justifying its behavior...and a media storm of discussion and analysis is dedicated to possible connections between your group and the violence....and if it is unclear if your group has crossed a line or not...and we're down to posting a dozen kinds of bullseyes and gunsights....and honest people have differing opinions on your group's responsibility...and there are recordings and documents which show that criticisms are not far-fetched or fabricated, then...
...then YOUR GROUP IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG, regardless whether or not in the end 51% of the nation sides with you OR if attorneys general can't find criminal behavior in your group OR if this shooter has no technical connection with your group's message. Clearly, your group is on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ISSUE and no amount of diversion or discussion of who said what or comparing of gunsight graphics can distance your group from the fundamental problem. It has to be made clear that the RW is not absolved of irresponsible, undemocratic behavior just because a photo of Glenn Beck isn't found in Loughner's underwear drawer.
It seems to me that, since this is not a court of law in which there's a guilty or not-guilty verdict, we (public) should be able to handle two conclusions at once....that possibly this guy acted in a vacuum without contact with toxic RW news and pundits...AND...the RW is and has been on the wrong side of the rhetoric issue, playing a terrible, dangerous, and incendiary game of hate, fear, and violence for political and fundraising gain.
The latter point should be self-evident and an easy case to make, since there are probably hundreds of incidents of low-road hateful campaigning and tricks going back only as far as Rove and Bush getting together. I don't see how there could be an easier or more obvious case to make if someone were interested in detailed analysis.
However, just as they did with the torture issue, the RW and their corporatist enablers will see to it that the larger issue is reduced down to something debatable and gray. It doesn't have to be that way.
Translation:
We can accuse you of anything we want and if you defend yourself then it means you're guilty.
And even if there isn't any EVIDENCE or PROOF that you are guilty, you are because we say that you are.
And of course the usual: The definition of hateful and violent words are those WE don't agree with, by those we don't agree with.
They know that they are losing the debate over this so now they are trying to turn it around - and say - well maybe there isn't a direct link, but they are guilty anyway.
I've read a number of threads today saying similar things.