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View Full Version : Another great DUmmie Idea



Madisonian
01-18-2011, 03:24 PM
It really is this easy... honest (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x221761)


Raoul (560 posts)
Tue Jan-18-11 10:54 AM
Original message
I am getting really fed up over this crap!
What I'm talking about is simply that my wife and I put out stuff via videos over here and YouTube and we talk alot about fixes to our economy. A while back we put out one in which I showed how Obama could create 15-20 million jobs paying 30K overnight by taxing the excess profits/money the corporate whores are sitting on at a 50% rate. IE - they're hoarding over 2 trillion so take 1/2 of it to create the jobs and our economy would heal overnight!

Today I got an email from the rocket scientists over at a dem site. Please read it and see if you see what I see. And then please tell me how I can make some money over making predictions. (G)

Bob Fertik, Democrats.com <activist@democrats.com >

Dear Raoul,

In December, Republicans demanded - and won - an extension of Bush's tax cuts for the rich costing $858 billion over two years.

Amazingly, that same $858 billion could create jobs for all 14.5 million unemployed Americans paying nearly $30,000 per year!

The rich don't need more tax breaks. But 14.5 million unemployed Americans desperately need jobs.

Tell Congress: Create Jobs Now!
(end of email)



But some ideas are better than others...

WiffenPoof (328 posts) Tue Jan-18-11 11:09 AM
2. I received the following in an email...
Please find below my suggestion for fixing America 's economy.
Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.
You can call it the "Patriotic Retirement Plan":
There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.
Pay them $1 million apiece severance with no taxes due on it, for early retirement with the following stipulations:
1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.
2) They MUST buy a new AMERICAN Car. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.
3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed. It can't get any easier than that!


P.S. If more money is needed, have all members in Congress pay their taxes.. Mr. President, while you're at it, make Congress retire on Social Security and Medicare. I'll bet both programs would be fixed pronto! If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not, please disregard.



OP likes it...

Raoul (560 posts) Tue Jan-18-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU!!!
Edited on Tue Jan-18-11 11:26 AM by Raoul
Actually I don't because I'm too humbled by your plan. It really is a great one so they'll never adopt it. Man, if only they did - my wife would be the first to exit. In fact, I would go out, get a quickie job at Walmart's or some other equally odious place and then grab your offer..

NOTE-CORRECTION.. I just did the math and your plan is too costly in my view. Mine is more conservative but still creates 30 million jobs at 30k/yr each.


Yeah DUmmie...
40 million people getting 1 million a piece is $40 trillion dollars.
Ben better crank up the presses...

A sometimes rational DUmmie gets it...

Statistical (1000+ posts)
10. So what happens in a year?
You are taking a one time thing $858 billion and paying for a single year of salaries. In a year where will you get another $858 billion. A year after that where is the next $858 billion?


But not our rocket surgeon OP


Raoul (560 posts) Tue Jan-18-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. What happens in a year
is that they can keep doing this year after year because:
1. The people making the 30k are gonna spend alot of it based on empirical proof from economic activity
studied year after year during the past 30 or 40 years.
2. The jobs would become self sustaining - people spending most of the money to buy goods and services which would
3. Go back into the corporate profits.

And most importantly:
I think you should take some economic courses to see the veracity of what I just posited.


Yes the OP plan is just brilliant...

Well... maybe not

Statistical
Response to Reply #14
15. No you should study economics.
Edited on Tue Jan-18-11 11:57 AM by Statistical
1) No good job costs an employer $30K. $30K in wages costs more like $50K - $70K in total labor costs (insurance, benefits, UI, payroll taxes, training, hiring overhead, etc). If you spend $30K per job it would fund a sub minimum wage job. It is unlikely many people on unemployment would rather take a job making less than minimum wage that likely will be gone in a year than wait for a real job.

2) There will be no belief in a self sustaining recovery. Everyone will know the 30 million "jobs" is merely a one time transfer of wealth from one balance sheet to another that isn't sustainable. Once it is gone, the demand will be gone also.

3) Even if Congress passed this don't you think Corporations will react. Like issue a dividend, or buy back stock, or acquire other companies. Anything to reduce the amount of cash on their books, and thus the amount collected by the tax. How can you tax money that is no longer there? You honestly think they will just sit there and say "oh well it is only $1 trillion".

4) Even $30K cash wouldn't make a job appear. It would simply be a wealth transfer. The unemployed would get $30K. You haven't increases the aggregate output of the country. Hence your $1 trillion would simply increase money supply without increasing output thus causing inflation.

5) If you did want to employ these people there would be overhead. $30K doesn't buy $30K job. You can't simply give someone $30K and say "you have a job". There is overhead to business. It would take time and money to find projects, people would need to be trained, you would need to go through a hiring process to find qualified applications, there would be skill mismatches. All this would act as friction which reduces the amount of actual outuput produced and cut into the $30K per job (which is more like $15K in wages).




Our DUmmie is persistant, if not overly intelligent...


Raoul (560 posts)
Response to Reply #15
17. Sounds like
we have a corporate whatever here. No, it's you who needs the education and more importantly, how to debate. To wit:

You claim 'everyone' knows it would be a transfer of wealth. Who is this everyone? You? You're committing the debate fallacy of 'appealing to the crowds' which has no bearing on my premises. And the term 'transfer of wealth' is right out of the freemarket Darwinian capitalist school of thought. If the super rich and corporations are taxed FAIRLY, which they are not, then it's a transfer of wealth. If tax cuts for the super rich are given without thought then it's merely to 'create' or sustain jobs.. LOL

Yes, I anticipate corporate reaction. In fact I want it because it will merely reinforce what many of us already know about them and their insatiable greed not to mention their lack of patriotism (embrace of global economics over the U.S.).

You also lack logical cohesiveness - the 'unemployed' would get 30K???? If they had a job they wouldn't be unemployed! ROFL

The trillion would increase the money supply (your exact words). I must have been mistaken then. The rich aren't 'hoarding' the 2 trillion because they have to PRINT IT FIRST?? LOL No, it would increase anything, merely put the money in the hands of millions who would SPEND ABOUT 80-90% of it according to all empirical evidence. Don't you spend most of what you make or are you one of the lucky few who doesn't have to?

Lastly, you make the humorous claim that it takes time to 'find projects' and whatever. Try telling that to the lucky millions who are working harder than ever before, working LONGER hours, doing the work of 2 OR 3 people who could be employed, etc..

Not to mention the infrastucture of this country which is last compared to any other industrialized nation. There are probably hundreds of thousands or more jobs required to fix and improve it in our country.

Now please think before trying to respond again. And try to use some EMPIRICAL evidence in future replies or I will be forced to ignore you because my time is very limited.


All that is missing is "lousy freeper troll"


Raoul (560 posts)
Response to Reply #18
19. Like I said
You offer nothing except one source which you seem to obfuscate. To wit: Yeah, that was the medium cited but not the net which was around 26K (same site) listed under blue background. Medium means just that as well - right at 50% mark so 49% are making less and 49% making more. But more importantly - 30k is a shitty job? Try telling that to the millions unemployed and not getting anything (remember the 99ers are do you give a fuck one way or another?).

Corporations couldn't move money which the gov. would put an immediate hold on no?? (G)

And once more appealing to the crowds, no? To wit: Other 'liberal' economists' haven't come up with this idea so it must suck, no? Actually I march to my own drummer and don't really give a fuck about what other economists would think about my plan, no?? LOL

Now, unless you have something to stimulate the intellectual juices, I believe we've exhausted this string for now, no?

Oh, almost forgot - in your previous posting you said some nonsense about unemployed not wanting to give up benefits to take a shitty '30k job'. That comes right out of the Sharen Angle/Rush Limbaugh school of moronory. Are you one of their fans as well, no? ROFL



Well I guess that would be close enough to LFT.

Yukon
01-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Corporations should be taxed at a higher rate and they should NOT beallowed to move jobs to (communist) China but if they persist in moving jobs the answer is simply to place a 1005 TARIF on goods made by these companies that are exported back to the USA and Canada.

Adam Wood
01-18-2011, 03:44 PM
At least once upon a time, Herr $kammenführer banned people from accusing others of being freepers. Not sure if that ban is still in place, but when he put that ban out there, everyone just came up with "witty," "creative" ways of accusing people of the crime of conservatism without actually spelling it out. I suspect that's why you see this one dancing around it.

Adam Wood
01-18-2011, 03:46 PM
Corporations should be taxed at a higher rate and they should NOT beallowed to move jobs to (communist) China but if they persist in moving jobs the answer is simply to place a 1005 TARIF on goods made by these companies that are exported back to the USA and Canada.At which point they will simply offshore the entire operation and stop dealing with North America at all.

That'll show 'em! Greedy bastards!!!1111oneoneoneteeneleven.

Apache
01-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Corporations should be taxed at a higher rate and they should NOT beallowed to move jobs to (communist) China but if they persist in moving jobs the answer is simply to place a 1005 TARIF on goods made by these companies that are exported back to the USA and Canada.

http://files.myopera.com/drlaunch/albums/37656/thumbs/i-lold001.jpg_thumb.jpg

Apache
01-18-2011, 03:52 PM
http://jim777.com/images/banhammer_forecast.gif


Bye Yukie

NJCardFan
01-18-2011, 06:16 PM
I heard that million dollar thing before and my math came up with the same thing. I mean, hell, everyone has a calculator on their computer, use it. Even if it were feasible, the rest of it is retarded.

1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.
OK, not a problem per se but you just put a whole bunch of employers behind the 8 ball to have to go through the hiring process, get viable people, and train them while still running a business. Also, do you think there are that many people who would look for a job? This would mean that all on unemployment would have to give it up as well. Pipe dream #1.

2) They MUST buy a new AMERICAN Car. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.
Wow. And what if they don't need or want a new car? They can't retire? Not to mention that you now stopped giving all corporations who might have benefited from the $858 billion tax break from receiving this yet are willing to hand over $1 trillion in auto sales(being generous here by multiplying cars at $25K X 40,000,000) to just 3 corporations. And considering that 2 of those corporations(GM/Chrysler) ran themselves into bankruptcy, what makes you think they'd be responsible with $333,333,333,333 just heaped upon them? Not to mention, that forcing 40 million people to buy new cars would completely cripple the auto industry and kill every new car dealership from Florida to Alaska. Simple math people.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed. It can't get any easier than that!
Um, how is the housing crisis fixed? Not to mention, and again using my superior math skills(using aforementioned calculator), say the average owed by these 40 million(assuming that all 40 million are singular home owners) is $50K(again being very conservative here), you just handed over $2 trillion to these same lenders who screwed things up in the first place. Way to think things through.

My God the stupidity of some people amaze me.

Dan D. Doty
01-18-2011, 10:28 PM
Really simple, stick a gun in people's faces ( the government) and take their stuff :rolleyes:

Every Moonbat wants to be Robin Hood ( who tried to help the poor against unjust taxes and oppression; something Moonbats are in favor of), but instead they end up as Dennis Moore ( Monty Python sketch) f*cking everything by trying to make things " fair ".

I surprised that I haven't seen a cat choke to death on a lupin by now.

AmPat
01-19-2011, 06:12 PM
Corporations should be taxed at a higher rate and they should NOT beallowed to move jobs to (communist) China but if they persist in moving jobs the answer is simply to place a 1005 TARIF on goods made by these companies that are exported back to the USA and Canada.

Fortunately for us, we had an election where like-minded morons like you were tossed out on their DUmb @$$3$ . Too bad we have to wait until November 2012 to fire the rest of the paint chip children.:cool:

Gingersnap
01-19-2011, 06:45 PM
You can call it the "Patriotic Retirement Plan":
There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.
Pay them $1 million apiece severance with no taxes due on it, for early retirement with the following stipulations:
1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.
2) They MUST buy a new AMERICAN Car. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.
3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed. It can't get any easier than that!


I'd take it. I'm working on a post-retirement business plan right now so I assume they would only ban people who work for other people. My house is going to be paid off in under 3 years so.......SWEET! I don't actually need another car but we buy Jeeps so......SWEET!

Lower the age, though. :D

I have often thought that if they had given every American adult 1 million at the start of this crisis that only the really dumb people would have lost their homes. Much cheaper than the current fixes.

NJCardFan
01-19-2011, 10:02 PM
I'd take it. I'm working on a post-retirement business plan right now so I assume they would only ban people who work for other people. My house is going to be paid off in under 3 years so.......SWEET! I don't actually need another car but we buy Jeeps so......SWEET!

Lower the age, though. :D

I have often thought that if they had given every American adult 1 million at the start of this crisis that only the really dumb people would have lost their homes. Much cheaper than the current fixes.

See my analysis above. That million would be worth maybe 50 real cents.

Gingersnap
01-19-2011, 10:06 PM
See my analysis above. That million would be worth maybe 50 real cents.

Oh, I would have done what I wanted to do long before inflation kicked in. I could have done absolutely everything in 1 business week. ;)