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View Full Version : Ground Zero Imam: 'We have More of a Right to Moses'



megimoo
01-22-2011, 11:34 AM
"Moses Is Ours not the Jews .He Led Us Out Of Egypt !"

Muslims have "more of a right" than Jews to the biblical prophet Moses, declared the imam who has become the new face of the proposed Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero in New York City.

Imam Abdallah Adhami also urged Muslims to "compete" with other religions.

"We must be doing it first, we must compete with you to be doing more of that. We want to fast Ashura too, because that's the day God saved Moses; that is certainly a day to be celebrated. We have more right to Moses," stated Adhami in a 2008 lecture obtained and reviewed by WND.

Ashura is an Islamic fast day that commemorates Muslim events, including the Islamic claim that Moses fasted on that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt.

In his lecture, Adhami recounted the Islamic story of the Muslim figure Muhammad arriving in Medina, where he encountered Jews who fasted on Ashura and asked them why they were celebrating the holiday

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=253421

Apache
01-22-2011, 01:10 PM
What an antagonistic ass...

MAybe someone should point out to him that Mohammad wasn't around...:rolleyes:

Rockntractor
01-22-2011, 02:23 PM
I think he meant moose's.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/moooses-he-even-parted-hudson-bay-o.jpg

m00
01-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Rauf's appearance in Detroit, the city with North America's largest Muslim population, was a keynote address to the so-called "Diversity Forum Banquet" of the Islamic Society of North America, or ISNA.

ISNA is known for its enforcement of Saudi-style Islam in mosques throughout the U.S. It was named by the Justice Department as an unindicted co-conspirator in its case against the Holy Land Foundation in Texas, which was found guilty in 2008 of raising money for the Hamas terrorist organization. Last year, Holy Land founders were given life sentences for "funneling $12 million to Hamas."

Rauf had previously refused to condemn Hamas in a radio interview. The chief of Hamas has also come out in public support of Rauf's proposed mosque near Ground Zero.

Read more: Ground Zero imam: 'We have more of a right to Moses' http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=253421#ixzz1BnLdYKjM

Apache
01-22-2011, 02:43 PM
Rock

No it was antagonism plain and simple. Islasm can lay claim to Abraham legitimately, Moses is a different matter altogther he was/is trying to start a religious war with the Jewish community....

Apache
01-22-2011, 02:47 PM
Rauf's appearance in Detroit, the city with North America's largest Muslim population, was a keynote address to the so-called "Diversity Forum Banquet" of the Islamic Society of North America, or ISNA.

ISNA is known for its enforcement of Saudi-style Islam in mosques throughout the U.S. It was named by the Justice Department as an unindicted co-conspirator in its case against the Holy Land Foundation in Texas, which was found guilty in 2008 of raising money for the Hamas terrorist organization. Last year, Holy Land founders were given life sentences for "funneling $12 million to Hamas."

Rauf had previously refused to condemn Hamas in a radio interview. The chief of Hamas has also come out in public support of Rauf's proposed mosque near Ground Zero.

Read more: Ground Zero imam: 'We have more of a right to Moses' http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=253421#ixzz1BnLdYKjM


ROPMA

Rockntractor
01-22-2011, 07:44 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/MosesHeadache.jpg

Rockntractor
01-22-2011, 07:47 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/moses_manna_ethnic_food_442295.jpg

Rockntractor
01-22-2011, 07:49 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/fishing-with-moses.jpg

Rockntractor
01-22-2011, 07:51 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/mrs_moses.jpg

megimoo
01-22-2011, 08:03 PM
Rock

No it was antagonism plain and simple. Islasm can lay claim to Abraham legitimately, Moses is a different matter altogther he was/is trying to start a religious war with the Jewish community....

Islam has no legitimate claim to Abraham.Hagar was a slave and under the law, not married to Abraham.She was driven out of Abraham's household by Abraham himself to keep peace with Sara .A disenfranchised slave doesn't inherit therefore neither does the son of a slave.Islam is tenacious in it's attempt to gain legitimacy through a nebulous blood lineage to Abraham.

Muhammad himself fashioned his new religion by building it up on a framework of Jewish and Vedic (Hindu) Gods .The Vedic Tradition or Hinduism is more than a religion, but a way of life, a complete philosophy.

" Historians say that Muhammad , who as a travelling trader was exposed to Judaism and Christianity during his visits to different parts of the Middle East, tried to mimic those monotheistic faiths by taking Allah, the main deity within the Arabian pantheon, and making it the only god. Indeed, the basic confession of Islam is not that "Allah is Great" but that "Allah is Greater". Greater than all the other idols, that is. "

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 12:06 AM
17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”
Gen21:17 NIV
Both Ishmael and Isaac received a blessing from God through Abraham.

lacarnut
01-23-2011, 12:15 AM
I think he meant moose's.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/moooses-he-even-parted-hudson-bay-o.jpg

ROTFLMAO....The antlers are too much.:)

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 12:16 AM
ROTFLMAO....The antlers are too much.:)

Yes , I took Mooses away from the Jews and Muzzies!:D

lacarnut
01-23-2011, 12:26 AM
Yes , I took Mooses away from the Jews and Muzzies!:D

The Muzzies will be pissed.:)

NJCardFan
01-23-2011, 02:38 AM
Islam has no legitimate claim to Abraham.Hagar was a slave and under the law, not married to Abraham.She was driven out of Abraham's household by Abraham himself to keep peace with Sara .A disenfranchised slave doesn't inherit therefore neither does the son of a slave.Islam is tenacious in it's attempt to gain legitimacy through a nebulous blood lineage to Abraham.

Muhammad himself fashioned his new religion by building it up on a framework of Jewish and Vedic (Hindu) Gods .The Vedic Tradition or Hinduism is more than a religion, but a way of life, a complete philosophy.

" Historians say that Muhammad , who as a travelling trader was exposed to Judaism and Christianity during his visits to different parts of the Middle East, tried to mimic those monotheistic faiths by taking Allah, the main deity within the Arabian pantheon, and making it the only god. Indeed, the basic confession of Islam is not that "Allah is Great" but that "Allah is Greater". Greater than all the other idols, that is. "

Hagar?
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscomic/other/hagar.jpg

Lanie
01-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Islam has no legitimate claim to Abraham.Hagar was a slave and under the law, not married to Abraham.She was driven out of Abraham's household by Abraham himself to keep peace with Sara .A disenfranchised slave doesn't inherit therefore neither does the son of a slave.Islam is tenacious in it's attempt to gain legitimacy through a nebulous blood lineage to Abraham.

Muhammad himself fashioned his new religion by building it up on a framework of Jewish and Vedic (Hindu) Gods .The Vedic Tradition or Hinduism is more than a religion, but a way of life, a complete philosophy.

" Historians say that Muhammad , who as a travelling trader was exposed to Judaism and Christianity during his visits to different parts of the Middle East, tried to mimic those monotheistic faiths by taking Allah, the main deity within the Arabian pantheon, and making it the only god. Indeed, the basic confession of Islam is not that "Allah is Great" but that "Allah is Greater". Greater than all the other idols, that is. "

But God did say he'd bless Hagar and Ishmael.

http://freechristimages.org/biblestories/hagar_and_the_angel.htm


Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”
Genesis 21:17-18]


Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”
Genesis 21:17-18


"Hagar, what is your trouble? Do not be afraid. God has heard your cry, and the cry of your child. God will take care of you both, and will make of your boy a great nation of people."


So Ishmael came to be the father of many people, and his descendants, the Arabians of the desert, are living unto this day in that land, just as the Jews, who are the descendants of Isaac, are living all over the world.


And not that I think that Islam is the answer (I'm a Christian), but I've always had a real problem with this story. Sarah was this jealous, abusive woman and yet she and her son got the blessing with Hagar supposedly left out in the cold? Uh, no. God did choose to bless Sarah for reasons only he knows and understand, but he also blessed Hagar. Oh, and did I mention that Abraham only got with his slave because of Sarah's insecurity and need for a son? Just sayin. Sorry, I don't really like Sarah. I realize God chose her to bless, but I think she's just one of the most cruelest women of the bible. She's jealous, she's abusive, and she asked her husband to sleep with another woman (did the other woman even want it, and what was Abraham doing sleeping with one who wasn't his wife?).

Apache
01-23-2011, 01:30 PM
Islam has no legitimate claim to Abraham.Hagar was a slave and under the law, not married to Abraham.She was driven out of Abraham's household by Abraham himself to keep peace with Sara .A disenfranchised slave doesn't inherit therefore neither does the son of a slave.Islam is tenacious in it's attempt to gain legitimacy through a nebulous blood lineage to Abraham.

Muhammad himself fashioned his new religion by building it up on a framework of Jewish and Vedic (Hindu) Gods .The Vedic Tradition or Hinduism is more than a religion, but a way of life, a complete philosophy.

" Historians say that Muhammad , who as a travelling trader was exposed to Judaism and Christianity during his visits to different parts of the Middle East, tried to mimic those monotheistic faiths by taking Allah, the main deity within the Arabian pantheon, and making it the only god. Indeed, the basic confession of Islam is not that "Allah is Great" but that "Allah is Greater". Greater than all the other idols, that is. "

I was going to say read the Bible a bit more, but that's already been addressed here :)

Apache
01-23-2011, 01:32 PM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/fishing-with-moses.jpg

Only you Rock, only you... LOL :p

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 01:39 PM
Only you Rock, only you... LOL :p
I like NJ's Hagar too!:D:D

Apache
01-23-2011, 01:51 PM
But God did say he'd bless Hagar and Ishmael.

http://freechristimages.org/biblestories/hagar_and_the_angel.htm










And not that I think that Islam is the answer (I'm a Christian), but I've always had a real problem with this story. Sarah was this jealous, abusive woman and yet she and her son got the blessing with Hagar supposedly left out in the cold? Uh, no. God did choose to bless Sarah for reasons only he knows and understand, but he also blessed Hagar. Oh, and did I mention that Abraham only got with his slave because of Sarah's insecurity and need for a son? Just sayin. Sorry, I don't really like Sarah. I realize God chose her to bless, but I think she's just one of the most cruelest women of the bible. She's jealous, she's abusive, and she asked her husband to sleep with another woman (did the other woman even want it, and what was Abraham doing sleeping with one who wasn't his wife?).
You're looking at this through a modern prism. Male heirs were THE most important item of a blood-line, it did't matter who gave birth as long as there was a child. Sarah made the mistake of not trusting the Lord's plans and jumped the gun...;)

megimoo
01-23-2011, 02:36 PM
But God did say he'd bless Hagar and Ishmael.

http://freechristimages.org/biblestories/hagar_and_the_angel.htm










And not that I think that Islam is the answer (I'm a Christian), but I've always had a real problem with this story. Sarah was this jealous, abusive woman and yet she and her son got the blessing with Hagar supposedly left out in the cold? Uh, no. God did choose to bless Sarah for reasons only he knows and understand, but he also blessed Hagar. Oh, and did I mention that Abraham only got with his slave because of Sarah's insecurity and need for a son? Just sayin. Sorry, I don't really like Sarah. I realize God chose her to bless, but I think she's just one of the most cruelest women of the bible. She's jealous, she's abusive, and she asked her husband to sleep with another woman (did the other woman even want it, and what was Abraham doing sleeping with one who wasn't his wife?).

With all of those young fertile woman floating around in Jacobs tent sex is inevitable .
Handmaiden are the the slaves of the mistress .Bilhah and Zilpah each married Jacob after the death of Leah and Rachel.....Hagar was never married to Abraham !

Jacob: In the Hebrew Bible, he is the son of Isaac and Rebekah, the grandson of Abraham and Sarah and of Bethuel, and the younger twin brother of Esau. He had twelve sons and several daughters, by his two wives, Leah and Rachel, and their maidservants, Bilhah and Zilpah.

The children were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, daughter Dinah, Joseph, and Benjamin.

In the Book of Genesis, Bilhah,"Faltering; bashful",is Rachel's handmaid who becomes a wife of Jacob and bears him two sons, Dan and Naphtali.
................
In the Book of Genesis, Zilpah,"Drooping", is Leah's handmaid who becomes a wife of Jacob and bears him two sons Gad and Asher.
..................
Zilpah is given to Leah as a handmaid by Leah's father, Laban, upon Leah's marriage to Jacob.According to some commentators, Zilpah and Bilhah, the handmaids of Leah and Rachel, respectively, were actually younger daughters of Laban according to one Rabbi.
...................

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 02:42 PM
With all of those young fertile woman floating around in Jacobs tent sex is inevitable .
Handmaiden are the the slaves of the mistress .Bilhah and Zilpah each married Jacob after the death of Leah and Rache .....Hagar was never married to Abraham !

Jacob: In the Hebrew Bible, he is the son of Isaac and Rebekah, the grandson of Abraham and Sarah and of Bethuel, and the younger twin brother of Esau. He had twelve sons and several daughters, by his two wives, Leah and Rachel, and their maidservants, Bilhah and Zilpah.

The children were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, daughter Dinah, Joseph, and Benjamin.

In the Book of Genesis, Bilhah,"Faltering; bashful",is Rachel's handmaid who becomes a wife of Jacob and bears him two sons, Dan and Naphtali.
................
In the Book of Genesis, Zilpah,"Drooping", is Leah's handmaid who becomes a wife of Jacob and bears him two sons Gad and Asher.
..................
Zilpah is given to Leah as a handmaid by Leah's father, Laban, upon Leah's marriage to Jacob.According to some commentators, Zilpah and Bilhah, the handmaids of Leah and Rachel, respectively, were actually younger daughters of Laban according to one Rabbi.
...................

It matters not, God bestowed a blessing on all the seed of Abraham.

megimoo
01-23-2011, 02:47 PM
I was going to say read the Bible a bit more, but that's already been addressed here :)How so ?Do you mean Ishmael's blessing ?What I'm getting at is Ishmael has no part in GOD'S plan for Israel as a nation.Sara interrupted GOD'S plan by telling Abraham to have a child with Hagar.GOD allowed it to happen and made the best of it.

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 02:52 PM
How so ?Do you mean Ishmael's blessing ?What I'm getting at is Ishmael has no part in GOD'S plan for Israel as a nation.Sara interrupted GOD'S plan by telling Abraham to have a child with Hagar.GOD allowed it to happen and made the best of it.

In the story the blessing split between Ishmael and Isaac and they both followed separate paths, and it was also prophesied the two races would never get along.

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 02:56 PM
How so ?Do you mean Ishmael's blessing ?What I'm getting at is Ishmael has no part in GOD'S plan for Israel as a nation.Sara interrupted GOD'S plan by telling Abraham to have a child with Hagar.GOD allowed it to happen and made the best of it.

God is taken by surprise by nothing and makes the best of nothing. all things take place within Gods plan and foreknowledge, he is not controlled by human created circumstance, our plans are changed by God, He remains unchanged throughout eternity.

megimoo
01-23-2011, 03:07 PM
It matters not, God bestowed a blessing on all the seed of Abraham.
True enough.GOD blesses us all, sinners and saved.My point is Ismael takes no part in GODS salvilvic plan .
The lineage is through Sara and not Hagar . Isaac,Jacob/Israel and the twelve sons make up the future tribes of the Jews.

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 03:10 PM
True enough.GOD blesses us all, sinners and saved.My point is Ismael takes no part in GODS salvilvic plan .
The lineage is through Sara and not Hagar . Isaac,Jacob/Israel and the twelve sons make up the future tribes of the Jews.

Yes it was a separate plan from the one for Isaac but is was also a unique blessing to Ishmael not shared by the rest of us, read the story closely.

megimoo
01-23-2011, 06:40 PM
Yes it was a separate plan from the one for Isaac but is was also a unique blessing to Ishmael not shared by the rest of us, read the story closely.

Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born:
snip
When a feast was held to celebrate the weaning of Isaac, who was born 13 years later, Ishmael caused trouble by insulting and mocking his little brother (Genesis 21:8-9). After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 RSV)

"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)
snip
Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, but they were not abandoned. God appeared and spoke to Hagar, assuring her that He would watch over them and see them prosper (Genesis 21:17-19). "And God was with the lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt" (Genesis 21:20-21 RSV).

Isaac and Ishmael apparently did not meet again until Abraham died: "Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre, the field which Abraham purchased from the Hittites.

There Abraham was buried, with Sarah his wife" (Genesis 25:9-10 RSV). The place today is known as the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, where the conflict for control of it still rages between the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.

Ishmael lived 137 years (Genesis 25:17). He had 12 sons, who became the founders of Ishmaelite tribes that spread from Egypt to what is today Iraq.

Many of the modern-day Arab peoples correctly recognize that they are the descendants of Ishmael, while the Jews, and the rest of the Israelites, are descendants of Isaac - but all are descended from Abraham..." From His seed."...

Lanie
01-23-2011, 07:51 PM
I went back and read it today. I do think God recognizes that descendants would be counted by who was born of one's wife, not the slave. That doesn't mean that God agrees with that. He said it's through Isaak which Abraham's descendants will be counted, not that God himself will count it that way. I've read different Jewish resources discussing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Anyway, one of the resources addressed the other side as "Son of Abraham." It appears even the Jews recognize them as the son of Abraham.

I don't think I remember God predicting that Ishmael would be wild and hostile toward people, but I will re-look it up. I don't think being a man of the wilderness makes him hostile toward others. He probably did have some so called civility in him if he got a wife from Eygpt.

I don't excuse Ishmael being uncivil toward Isaak, but I sort of wonder if Isaak's mother being so hateful and abusive toward Ishmael's mother might not have had something to do with Ishmael's attitude. People act like Sarah shouldn't have been held responsible for her hatefulness and her abusiveness when she very much should have been. I'm sorry. Reading that again today and I couldn't stand it.

Lanie
01-23-2011, 07:58 PM
Oh, and for the record, I think the Iman is a trouble making, crap stirring jerk.

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 07:59 PM
Oh, and for the record, I think the Iman is a trouble making, crap stirring jerk.

Could you hang with Moses?

megimoo
01-23-2011, 08:19 PM
God is taken by surprise by nothing and makes the best of nothing. all things take place within Gods plan and foreknowledge, he is not controlled by human created circumstance, our plans are changed by God, He remains unchanged throughout eternity.I didn't say that GOD was surprise !
How could he be when past and future are right before him in a straight line.I said that he made the best of it without condemning either Sarah or Hagar .He knew what they would do before they did it.His plans included their actions and flow from his will !

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 08:21 PM
I didn't say that GOD was surprise !
How could he be when past and future are right before him in a straight line.I said that he made the best of it without condemning either Sarah or Hagar .He knew what they would do before they did it.His plans included their actions and flow from his will !

Okay, I didn't want you misunderstood.