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megimoo
01-23-2011, 02:13 AM
Children are to be taught about homosexuality in maths, geography and science lessons as part of a Government-backed drive to "celebrate the gay community".

Lesson plans have been drawn up for pupils as young as four, in a scheme funded with a £35,000 grant from an education quango, the Training and Development Agency for Schools.

The initiative will be officially launched next month at the start of "LGBT History Month" – an initiative to encourage teaching about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual issues.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8275937/Gay-lessons-in-maths-geography-and-science.html

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 02:40 AM
Who knew that maths was plural and that there was such a word as "quango"? See, I learned something today.

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 03:11 AM
Who knew that maths was plural and that there was such a word as "quango"? See, I learned something today.

They may not know how to spell, find their country on a map or multiply, but they know what a butt plug is.

lacarnut
01-23-2011, 03:28 AM
Who knew that maths was plural and that there was such a word as "quango"? See, I learned something today.

No you did not because you are stupid.

Maths is the term for mathematics in the UK

Math is the term for it in the US.

Understand butt-hole.

NJCardFan
01-23-2011, 03:48 AM
Who knew that maths was plural and that there was such a word as "quango"? See, I learned something today.
:rolleyes:

Noun 1. quango - a quasi nongovernmental organization; an organization that is financed by the government yet acts independently of the government http://www.thefreedictionary.com/quango

Does being ignorant come natural or do you have to work at it?

CueSi
01-23-2011, 04:24 AM
I'm willing to be they'll ignore common sense, easy to work in stuff like... "One of the modern pioneers of computing was a Gay man, Alan Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing). He helped formalize algorythms, and his Turing Machine was a fore-runner to the modern computer." See? I just did it! No politicking- just keeping it relevant to the subject.

But any good this does will get lost in the weeds. Education seems to teach everything but common sense. I hate this story, I'm facepalming at the reaction, I'm facepalming on the reaction to the reaction...

~QC

hampshirebrit
01-23-2011, 07:08 AM
I'm willing to be they'll ignore common sense, easy to work in stuff like... "One of the modern pioneers of computing was a Gay man, Alan Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing). He helped formalize algorythms, and his Turing Machine was a fore-runner to the modern computer." See? I just did it! No politicking- just keeping it relevant to the subject.

But any good this does will get lost in the weeds. Education seems to teach everything but common sense. I hate this story, I'm facepalming at the reaction, I'm facepalming on the reaction to the reaction...

~QC

Even that (Turing's sexuality) is completely irrelevant to the core subject of math(s). It is more relevant to studies of society or history.

I learned about Turing at school, but I didn't find out about his private life inclinations until later on in adult life. It wasn't deemed by my teachers to be important to the lesson, and I'd have to agree with them on that.

Certainly, highjacking lessons for four and five year olds to sneak in a GBLT(?sp) meme is just wrong. I didn't even know where babies come from when I was that age. There is no need to (and there is, in fact, every need NOT to) introduce any aspect of adult sexuality to children in this age group.

badswing
01-23-2011, 10:42 AM
E=MC2 (and einstein preferred large breats to small ones however if the large ones sagged than the preference was to firmer smaller ones). A2 = B2 = C2 (was possibly proved by Pythagoras. Pythagoras really preferred the beauty of a nice round butt as opposed to realizing the beauty of a breast. It has yet to be determined if he preferred to insert anything into said butt or if he really should be credited with the discovery of this theorem but at least we can be sure that he was an ass man.) Babylonian mathmeticians probably were responsible for discovering the theorem but we are not sure of their sexual preferences as a group. we do know of one of the babylonian mathmeticians who really preferred long shapely legs. Z \s/ > /s/ is the Cantor theorem. Cantor gave essentially this proof in a paper published in 1891 Über eine elementare Frage der Mannigfaltigkeitslehre. Russell later proved the same in Principles of Mathematics (1903, section 348), where he shows that that there are more propositional functions than objects. However the function of objects he seemed more concerned with were having to do with erectile dysfunction. It wasn't until the discovery of the basic computer by alan turing that we can be sure of a great mathmetician who preferred the beauty of an ass over anything else. of great concern to the genius' in the british government was presenting his work while also making sure the children being taught in their schools knew that it was the ass of the same sex and that indeed he liked having something stuck up his. they are still trying to confirm if he also enjoyed sticking his in someone else'. when questioned by a BBC reporter, a gov't official stated that "we will get to the 'bottom' of this because it is such an intregal part of the story.

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 10:54 AM
:rolleyes:


Does being ignorant come natural or do you have to work at it?

I try to limit myself to one stupid buzzword per year. Quango escaped my attention, which isn't surprising considering that when it was coined I was more concerned with mastering the skateboard than arguing with other idiots about politics.

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 10:55 AM
They may not know how to spell, find their country on a map or multiply, but they know what a butt plug is.

That's true, and using people who aren't WASP in readers detracts from learning to read in favor of tap dancing and watermelon.

Constitutionally Speaking
01-23-2011, 11:00 AM
Even that (Turing's sexuality) is completely irrelevant to the core subject of math(s). It is more relevant to studies of society or history.

I learned about Turing at school, but I didn't find out about his private life inclinations until later on in adult life. It wasn't deemed by my teachers to be important to the lesson, and I'd have to agree with them on that.

Certainly, highjacking lessons for four and five year olds to sneak in a GBLT(?sp) meme is just wrong. I didn't even know where babies come from when I was that age. There is no need to (and there is, in fact, every need NOT to) introduce any aspect of adult sexuality to children in this age group.



BINGO!

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm willing to be they'll ignore common sense, easy to work in stuff like... "One of the modern pioneers of computing was a Gay man, Alan Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing). He helped formalize algorythms, and his Turing Machine was a fore-runner to the modern computer." See? I just did it! No politicking- just keeping it relevant to the subject.

But any good this does will get lost in the weeds. Education seems to teach everything but common sense. I hate this story, I'm facepalming at the reaction, I'm facepalming on the reaction to the reaction...

~QC

I didn't read the article as saying that it would be like "ALan Turning, a gay man...." I read it more like "If a hairdresser gets on a train at 4 PM headed for Edinburgh and UPS driver gets on a train headed for York at 6PM, where will they meet for appletinis?"

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 11:50 AM
I didn't read the article as saying that it would be like "ALan Turning, a gay man...." I read it more like "If a hairdresser gets on a train at 4 PM headed for Edinburgh and UPS driver gets on a train headed for York at 6PM, where will they meet for appletinis?"

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/cu-gay-police-gay-demotivational-posters-1295797686.jpg

fettpett
01-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Is it me or do you guys find it Ironic that February in the UK is LGBT month and it's Black History month in the US?

Rockntractor
01-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Is it me or do you guys find it Ironic that February in the UK is LGBT month and it's Black History month in the US?

Every month has a half a dozen claims put on it by different groups here, probably the same there.

hampshirebrit
01-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Is it me or do you guys find it Ironic that February in the UK is LGBT month and it's Black History month in the US?

I'm struggling to see any irony.

Apache
01-23-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm struggling to see any irony.

Shortest month of the year...;)

Kay
01-23-2011, 01:06 PM
http://amygrindhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Picture-of-Elton-John-and-David-Furnishs-Baby-1-500x687.jpg

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Is it me or do you guys find it Ironic that February in the UK is LGBT month and it's Black History month in the US?

It's two, two, two mints in one:

http://aalbc.com/authors/img58.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/220_watkins.jpg

Novaheart
01-23-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm struggling to see any irony.

All Americans think that all English men are gay. (in Archie Bunker World)

fettpett
01-23-2011, 01:50 PM
All Americans think that all English men are gay. (in Archie Bunker World)

no, just Elton John

Apache
01-23-2011, 02:46 PM
All Americans think that all English men are gay. (in Archie Bunker World)

Ummm no. You're the only one dumb enough to say that...

Kay
01-23-2011, 06:21 PM
All Americans think that all English men are gay. (in Archie Bunker World)

X 3 = you are totally wrong FP, as usual.

CueSi
01-24-2011, 12:24 AM
Even that (Turing's sexuality) is completely irrelevant to the core subject of math(s). It is more relevant to studies of society or history.

I learned about Turing at school, but I didn't find out about his private life inclinations until later on in adult life. It wasn't deemed by my teachers to be important to the lesson, and I'd have to agree with them on that.

Certainly, highjacking lessons for four and five year olds to sneak in a GBLT(?sp) meme is just wrong. I didn't even know where babies come from when I was that age. There is no need to (and there is, in fact, every need NOT to) introduce any aspect of adult sexuality to children in this age group.

Four and five year olds? See, I missed that in the story. With that in there, I'll have to agree w/o reservation.

~QC

CueSi
01-24-2011, 12:25 AM
I didn't read the article as saying that it would be like "ALan Turning, a gay man...." I read it more like "If a hairdresser gets on a train at 4 PM headed for Edinburgh and UPS driver gets on a train headed for York at 6PM, where will they meet for appletinis?"

And that would be stupid. :p Let's be honest, that would be stupid. Just like the gay police picture Rock posted.

~QC

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 12:27 AM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/cu-gay-police-gay-demotivational-posters-1295797686.jpg

CueSi
01-24-2011, 12:29 AM
Do you have an actual objection to what I said to Nova. . .? Or was that a reflex action?

~QC

lacarnut
01-24-2011, 12:36 AM
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/cu-gay-police-gay-demotivational-posters-1295797686.jpg

A couple of tuti fruittis:eek:

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 12:40 AM
A couple of tuti fruittis:eek:

English too!:D

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 12:48 AM
Who knew that maths was plural and that there was such a word as "quango"? See, I learned something today.

Clearly you've never watch Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister then. More's the pity.

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 12:49 AM
Even that (Turing's sexuality) is completely irrelevant to the core subject of math(s). It is more relevant to studies of society or history.

I learned about Turing at school, but I didn't find out about his private life inclinations until later on in adult life. It wasn't deemed by my teachers to be important to the lesson, and I'd have to agree with them on that.

Certainly, highjacking lessons for four and five year olds to sneak in a GBLT(?sp) meme is just wrong. I didn't even know where babies come from when I was that age. There is no need to (and there is, in fact, every need NOT to) introduce any aspect of adult sexuality to children in this age group.

QFT

wilbur
01-24-2011, 12:54 AM
I don't know if these "gay lessons" are something that will be effective or not... but something needs to be done.

Kids AND authorities in school - teachers and the like - seem to be prejudiced.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2306v1
http://www.charlieglickman.com/2010/12/bullies-arent-just-other-kids-lgb-teens-get-harsher-treatment/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+CharlieGlickman+(Charlie+Glickm an)&utm_content=Google+Reader
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101206093707.htm



Nonheterosexual youth suffer disproportionate educational and criminal-justice punishments that are not explained by greater engagement in illegal or transgressive behaviors. Understanding and addressing these disparities might reduce school expulsions, arrests, and incarceration and their dire social and health consequences.


In fact, this study shows that openly gay kids are 40% more likely to be punished by authorities in school, despite no disparity in the amount of misconduct when compared with heterosexual kids.

CueSi
01-24-2011, 01:00 AM
I don't know if these "gay lessons" are something that will be effective or not... but something needs to be done.

Kids AND authorities in school - teachers and the like - seem to be prejudiced.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2306v1
http://www.charlieglickman.com/2010/12/bullies-arent-just-other-kids-lgb-teens-get-harsher-treatment/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+CharlieGlickman+(Charlie+Glickm an)&utm_content=Google+Reader
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101206093707.htm



In fact, this study shows that openly gay kids are 40% more likely to be punished by authorities in school, despite no disparity in the amount of misconduct when compared with heterosexual kids.

This (what's in the OP) seems like a stupid solution. It won't make students treat their gay peers with respect and teachers will resent having to restructure their lesson plans for what they perceive as no good reason. I worry about coddling a student because they're gay... which happens in some arts magnet schools. Not often, but PC + Education Majors = Silly Ass Shit like what's in this story from the UK.

The best solution would be to teach respect for ALL students. Not just the LBGT ones.Teach respect for all students and put some real consequences behind bullying infractions.

~QC

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 01:06 AM
The best solution would be to teach respect for ALL students. Not just the LBGT ones.Teach respect for all students and put some real consequences behind bullying infractions.

~QC half the problem is that they call just about everything under the sun bullying nowadays. What would be better would be to teach people how to deal with bullies because the real world is full of them and most of the bullying policies schools have do not have the interests of the students in mind - they're on the books to protect the schools from lawsuits from idiot parents who expecte their kids to be coddled and treated like crystal figurines in school. :rolleyes:

CueSi
01-24-2011, 01:11 AM
half the problem is that they call just about everything under the sun bullying nowadays. What would be better would be to teach people how to deal with bullies because the real world is full of them and most of the bullying policies schools have do not have the interests of the students in mind - they're on the books to protect the schools from lawsuits from idiot parents who expecte their kids to be coddled and treated like crystal figurines in school. :rolleyes:

True...forget God in schools... we need common sense in school... which sometimes travels with God (I hear God usually drives on the longer car trips), so I guess we could get 'em both.

And then when you consider cyberbullying... wait, before you do... do YOU consider cyberbullying as part of the package?

~QC

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 01:24 AM
And that would be stupid. :p Let's be honest, that would be stupid. Just like the gay police picture Rock posted.

~QC

Well, that was a joke. I feel fairly confident that all we're talking about here is inclusion, much the same way we've made special efforts to be inclusive of various people in the school books and readers. Gay kids have as much right to cultural support as any other child.

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 01:28 AM
True...forget God in schools... we need common sense in school... which sometimes travels with God (I hear God usually drives on the longer car trips), so I guess we could get 'em both.

And then when you consider cyberbullying... wait, before you do... do YOU consider cyberbullying as part of the package?

~QC

If we would just teach kids about self worth instead of self esteem - they'd be a whole hell of a lot better off and bullies - cyber and IRL would have very little power. But because we teach kids to focus on how other people perceive them instead of on how they perceive themselves - kids get all worked up and when they have nothing to root them - such as firm faith - they get worked up and do crazy stupid things. :( This is one of the things I keep having to work on with my kids - and one thing I had to learn myself the hard way.

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 01:32 AM
Well, that was a joke. I feel fairly confident that all we're talking about here is inclusion, much the same way we've made special efforts to be inclusive of various people in the school books and readers. Gay kids have as much right to cultural support as any other child.

Do you feel the same way about skinhead/Nazi/Aryan Nation kids? Do they have the right to cultural support? School should not exist to affirm or support any identity groups 'culture.' If it's going to promote any culture - it needs to promote western culture and then only in so far as it gives our history and imparts our values.

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 01:37 AM
The best solution would be to teach respect for ALL students. Not just the LBGT ones.Teach respect for all students and put some real consequences behind bullying infractions.

~QC

I would translate that as teach respect without the tools of respect. That's not how the American curriculum has changed to be inclusive, respectful, and to reflect the make-up of society. Hand in hand with teaching racial tolerance and respect in this country has been teaching that all races have contributed, have worthy members, and are due common courtesy. It has not been a purely generic exercise in deportment, it has not been an order without a reason or an explanation.

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 01:40 AM
Do you feel the same way about skinhead/Nazi/Aryan Nation kids? Do they have the right to cultural support? School should not exist to affirm or support any identity groups 'culture.' If it's going to promote any culture - it needs to promote western culture and then only in so far as it gives our history and imparts our values.

Michelle Bachmann is an ignorant turd.

CueSi
01-24-2011, 01:42 AM
Well, that was a joke. I feel fairly confident that all we're talking about here is inclusion, much the same way we've made special efforts to be inclusive of various people in the school books and readers. Gay kids have as much right to cultural support as any other child.

How soon should we start? In my ideal world, I would start with teaching kids to respect others because they're human and worthy of respect (Linking to PoliCon's post about self-worth v. self-esteem). . . stuff like sexuality should come later, probably in middle school or so. But this story is going with an empty curriculum-based gesture to 5/6 year olds.


If we would just teach kids about self worth instead of self esteem - they'd be a whole hell of a lot better off and bullies - cyber and IRL would have very little power. But because we teach kids to focus on how other people perceive them instead of on how they perceive themselves - kids get all worked up and when they have nothing to root them - such as firm faith - they get worked up and do crazy stupid things. :( This is one of the things I keep having to work on with my kids - and one thing I had to learn myself the hard way.

I can definitely see that point there. I had a hard time, but eventually learning to stand alone because no one else is going to stand up for you is a lesson I hard a hard time with.


I would translate that as teach respect without the tools of respect. That's not how the American curriculum has changed to be inclusive, respectful, and to reflect the make-up of society. Hand in hand with teaching racial tolerance and respect in this country has been teaching that all races have contributed, have worthy members, and are due common courtesy. It has not been a purely generic exercise in deportment, it has not been an order without a reason or an explanation.

I'll grant you that, but when should we start... and how and when do you integrate sexuality into this rubric of race, gender, and other differentiating factors?

~QC

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 01:42 AM
Michelle Bachmann is an ignorant turd.

Stay on topic, we're talking about queers and school.

CueSi
01-24-2011, 01:42 AM
Michelle Bachmann is an ignorant turd.

Dude, that's not an answer. :p

~QC

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 01:46 AM
Come on, let's get going!
Gay this up a bit!

CueSi
01-24-2011, 01:48 AM
Come on, let's get going!
Gay this up a bit!

http://blogs.adelaidecitycouncil.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/22/no.jpg

~QC

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 01:55 AM
And for todays geography lesson, Mt. Buttmore
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/queer20100201103510.jpg

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 02:15 AM
How soon should we start? In my ideal world, I would start with teaching kids to respect others because they're human and worthy of respect (Linking to PoliCon's post about self-worth v. self-esteem). . . stuff like sexuality should come later, probably in middle school or so. But this story is going with an empty curriculum-based gesture to 5/6 year olds.

My friend Karen's brothers were calling each other fags in elementary school. Looking back, I can't believe that they did this in a household in which they were never corrected on this behavior. If they had been calling each other "fuckwad" that would have earned them at least a lecture. But fag was OK. So there is one measure.

Another goes to your notion that this is somehow similar to sex ed. It's not sex ed. Some kids grow up from infancy knowing that some couples are heterosexual and some are homosexual. They may not use those terms, but they know that Bob and Mary are Joey's parents and that Vera and Charlotte are Billy's parents. They know that some kids have one parent. They don't really care how that came about. They aren't confused, they are indifferent. The tech comes later.

What's really going on here is that there are people who object to children being taught that prejudice is prejudice. They don't want the school undoing the stupid they are instilling in children.

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 02:16 AM
Stay on topic, we're talking about queers and school.

Sorry, I thought I was responding to a Michelle Bachmann quote.

Rockntractor
01-24-2011, 02:18 AM
Sorry, I thought I was responding to a Michelle Bachmann quote.

No problem, fairy on!:D

Novaheart
01-24-2011, 02:26 AM
I'll grant you that, but when should we start... and how and when do you integrate sexuality into this rubric of race, gender, and other differentiating factors?

~QC

Get the kids to tell you all the names you shouldn't call people.

CueSi
01-24-2011, 02:54 AM
My friend Karen's brothers were calling each other fags in elementary school. Looking back, I can't believe that they did this in a household in which they were never corrected on this behavior. If they had been calling each other "fuckwad" that would have earned them at least a lecture. But fag was OK. So there is one measure.

Another goes to your notion that this is somehow similar to sex ed. It's not sex ed. Some kids grow up from infancy knowing that some couples are heterosexual and some are homosexual. They may not use those terms, but they know that Bob and Mary are Joey's parents and that Vera and Charlotte are Billy's parents. They know that some kids have one parent. They don't really care how that came about. They aren't confused, they are indifferent. The tech comes later.

What's really going on here is that there are people who object to children being taught that prejudice is prejudice. They don't want the school undoing the stupid they are instilling in children.

How about we simplify it a little bit?

I don't see it similar to sex ed. But I am concerned as to when being polite to others is being seen as a threat on someones values, as stupid as that is. Someone is going to teach their kids that they think that person is wrong. Just because you think the mere existence of this person is a blight on society, doesn't mean you should treat 'em like shit.

In short: what I want taught is respect no matter what you personally may think of how a parent or student lives their life and tradition. I don't want to tread on teaching values; that's a parent's job. But manners is what should be taught.

~QC

noonwitch
01-24-2011, 09:54 AM
It's two, two, two mints in one:

http://aalbc.com/authors/img58.jpg


]


I didn't know James Baldwin was gay until I was in college. We read a bunch of his stuff in high school, too, because my AP english teacher really liked his prose.

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 10:24 AM
Michelle Bachmann is an ignorant turd.

So are you. Your point? :rolleyes:

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 10:26 AM
Sorry, I thought I was responding to a Michelle Bachmann quote.

No actually - that's a healthy dose of reality. You want cultural affirmation - get it at home. School should not be the place of such things.

PoliCon
01-24-2011, 10:27 AM
Get the kids to tell you all the names you shouldn't call people.

Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.


HELLO?? :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 12:39 AM
Lesson plans have been drawn up for pupils as young as four, in a scheme funded with a £35,000 grant from an education quango, the Training and Development Agency for Schools.
In all seriousness this is the part that pisses me off, a child of four knows nothing of homosexuality and needs not know any sexuality other than don't touch me there! This is the kind of thing that turns people against faggotry.

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:06 AM
In all seriousness this is the part that pisses me off, a child of four knows nothing of homosexuality and needs not know any sexuality other than don't touch me there! This is the kind of thing that turns people against faggotry.

David Watkins, a teacher involved in the scheme, said: "We don't want teachers to start out saying 'This is a gay lesson.' We just want lessons that don't ignore that there are lesbian and gay people who suffer from issues and problems.
"When you have a maths problem, why does it have to involve a straight family or a boyfriend and girlfriend? Why not two boys or two girls?
"It's not about teaching about gay sex, it is about images and exposing children to the idea that there are other types of people out there."

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:08 AM
Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.


HELLO?? :rolleyes:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/23/us/hatecrime190.jpg

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:09 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/23/us/hatecrime190.jpg

that sweater is soooo ghey. :rolleyes:

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:09 AM
David Watkins, a teacher involved in the scheme, said: "We don't want teachers to start out saying 'This is a gay lesson.' We just want lessons that don't ignore that there are lesbian and gay people who suffer from issues and problems.
"When you have a maths problem, why does it have to involve a straight family or a boyfriend and girlfriend? Why not two boys or two girls?
"It's not about teaching about gay sex, it is about images and exposing children to the idea that there are other types of people out there."

An unnecessary load of shit! Wait until they are out of school to recruit them.

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:13 AM
David Watkins, a teacher involved in the scheme, said: "We don't want teachers to start out saying 'This is a gay lesson.' We just want lessons that don't ignore that there are lesbian and gay people who suffer from issues and problems.
"When you have a maths problem, why does it have to involve a straight family or a boyfriend and girlfriend? Why not two boys or two girls?
"It's not about teaching about gay sex, it is about images and exposing children to the idea that there are other types of people out there."

which is nothing more than an attempt to normalize deviancy and make normal seem deviant. :rolleyes:

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:17 AM
that sweater is soooo ghey. :rolleyes:

He was murdered at school.

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:18 AM
which is nothing more than an attempt to normalize deviancy and make normal seem deviant. :rolleyes:

How do you imagine that it makes normal seem deviant?

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:19 AM
An unnecessary load of shit! Wait until they are out of school to recruit them.

You're an idiot.

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:23 AM
He was murdered at school.
Murder is wrong. So is that sweater.

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:25 AM
How do you imagine that it makes normal seem deviant?

The attempt is to make normal seem deviant. People now look askance at two parent families where both parents only have kids to their spouse and both parties are on their first marriage.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:26 AM
You're an idiot.

You are the one that always resorts to the name calling, and then you whine when it is returned.

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:35 AM
You are the one that always resorts to the name calling, and then you whine when it is returned.

I didn't resort to name calling. It was a clinical assessment.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:37 AM
I didn't resort to name calling. It was a clinical assessment.

Get back on topic or read!

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:43 AM
David Watkins, a teacher involved in the scheme, said: "We don't want teachers to start out saying 'This is a gay lesson.' We just want lessons that don't ignore that there are lesbian and gay people who suffer from issues and problems.
"When you have a maths problem, why does it have to involve a straight family or a boyfriend and girlfriend? Why not two boys or two girls?
"It's not about teaching about gay sex, it is about images and exposing children to the idea that there are other types of people out there."

I'm trying to remember Dick and Jane from my word problems as as kid, were just f'n random. They were maybe my age. Sexuality didn't even enter the rubric of considering them. They didn't mention families or anything really deep. I didn't know anything much about them except those fuckers always seemed to have apples. Never oranges, never pomgrenates, just f'n apples.

Sometimes pie.

~QC

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:45 AM
Murder is wrong. So is that sweater.

Okay, that was funny. But with that, you're gayer than Nova if you're gonna make fashion judgements. Maybe he's going 1980's Cosby Retro?

IJS.

~QC

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:47 AM
Okay, that was funny. But with that, you're gayer than Nova if you're gonna make fashion judgements. Maybe he's going 1980's Cosby Retro?

IJS.

~QC

:D

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:47 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/23/us/hatecrime190.jpg

Which one was this young man? Was he part of the rash of suicides, or one of the two or three antecedent incidents ? Just putting up the picture w/o a story or context isn't helping.

(the sweater is killing me, but the question is serious)

~QC

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:50 AM
Which one was this young man? Was he part of the rash of suicides, or one of the two or three antecedent incidents ? Just putting up the picture w/o a story or context isn't helping.

(the sweater is killing me, but the question is serious)

~QC

http://myfriended.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/sad-gay-panic-defense-in-king-murder/

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:51 AM
:D

I was trying to hard to be serious, but my funny acted up.

I see what Nova is saying, that we should be conscious of people not like ourselves. I don't think we need to get too detailed into how people are different, but that despite our differences, we should respect one another, even if we think that difference is deviant/icky/sinful/whathave you.

But from what I am seeing, he wants the distinctions to be made...this person is gay, this person is black, this person is a paraplegic. Personally, in this capacity, I believe the differences should not matter andin the end, there should be respect, within reason, to all.

~QC

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:51 AM
Okay, that was funny. But with that, you're gayer than Nova if you're gonna make fashion judgements. Maybe he's going 1980's Cosby Retro?

IJS.

~QC Just poking holes in his inflated notions of importance. :D

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:53 AM
http://myfriended.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/sad-gay-panic-defense-in-king-murder/

Ahh, I remember this story...sordid, sad stuff.

Wouldn't this have followed in the respect pattern I was speaking of? The kid obviously was conscious that his eventual victim was gay... consciousness doesn't help.

Probably respect for life would have.

~QC

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 01:53 AM
Which one was this young man? Was he part of the rash of suicides, or one of the two or three antecedent incidents ? Just putting up the picture w/o a story or context isn't helping.

(the sweater is killing me, but the question is serious)

~QC

He's the 8th grader who was murdered in Oxnard. Culturally supported homicide, a predictable result of the promotion of hate and stupid shit like "inclusion of gay people makes heterosexual identity deviant."

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:53 AM
I was trying to hard to be serious, but my funny acted up.

I see what Nova is saying, that we should be conscious of people not like ourselves. I don't think we need to get too detailed into how people are different, but that despite our differences, we should respect one another, even if we think that difference is deviant/icky/sinful/whathave you.

But from what I am seeing, he wants the distinctions to be made...this person is gay, this person is black, this person is a paraplegic. Personally, in this capacity, I believe the differences should not matter andin the end, there should be respect, within reason, to all.

~QC

The death of the child was bad but we are taught from a young age that the killing of anyone is wrong. i doubt teaching tolerance would have made any difference to this child.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:55 AM
He's the 8th grader who was murdered in Oxnard. Culturally supported homicide, a predictable result of the promotion of hate and stupid shit like "inclusion of gay people makes heterosexual identity deviant."

Homicide is not culturally supported and statements like this as well as your other outbursts do nothing for your cause.

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 01:56 AM
Ahh, I remember this story...sordid, sad stuff.

Wouldn't this have followed in the respect pattern I was speaking of? The kid obviously was conscious that his eventual victim was gay... consciousness doesn't help.

Probably respect for life would have.

~QC

QFT.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:57 AM
Ahh, I remember this story...sordid, sad stuff.

Wouldn't this have followed in the respect pattern I was speaking of? The kid obviously was conscious that his eventual victim was gay... consciousness doesn't help.

Probably respect for life would have.

~QC

Exactly, to me the idea of hate crime is stupid, if you kill someone hate is along for the ride in most every case other than extreme emotional distress.

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:59 AM
He's the 8th grader who was murdered in Oxnard. Culturally supported homicide, a predictable result of the promotion of hate and stupid shit like "inclusion of gay people makes heterosexual identity deviant."

The bolded is your REAL problem. If homicide was not supported as a solution...is it not possible to believe that he wouldn't have killed that kid?

"The inclusion of gay people"... As I said before, sometimes "PC+Education Majors = Stupid Ass No-Tolerance Bullshit". These are the same people that won't let a kid take a damn aspirin without a court order. If they can't handle a kid having a damn headache fixing it the same way they fix it at home, what makes you think they can solve gay bullying without over doing it to cover their ass? These are the same people that when a bullied kid fights back... they send EVERY DAMN BODY to be suspended. Logic and Education majors don't always go together.

~QC

CueSi
01-25-2011, 02:01 AM
Homicide is not culturally supported and statements like this as well as your other outbursts do nothing for your cause.

Not within the larger cultures but, within some subcultures it is. Gang/gangster/ghetto culture glorifies it (you know this!). In Jamaica, dancehall music promotes violence...parts of Oxnard are hella shitty, and I'm willing to bet the kid that killed Lawrence King didn't have savory figures in his life.

~QC

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 02:08 AM
Not within the larger cultures but, within some subcultures it is. Gang/gangster/ghetto culture glorifies it (you know this!). In Jamaica, dancehall music promotes violence...parts of Oxnard are hella shitty, and I'm willing to bet the kid that killed Lawrence King didn't have savory figures in his life.

~QC

Gangs are organized crime and should not be tolerated within society.

CueSi
01-25-2011, 02:12 AM
Gangs are organized crime and should not be tolerated within society.

I agree, but in places where society has broken down, that's what runs things in the simplified mind of a kid.

And now you can see why I think that the gay thing is ancillary to the real issues at hand. If this kid didn't kill Lawrence, he would prolly hurt someone else.

~QC

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 02:15 AM
I agree, but in places where society has broken down, that's what runs things in the simplified mind of a kid.

And now you can see why I think that the gay thing is ancillary to the real issues at hand. If this kid didn't kill Lawrence, he would prolly hurt someone else.

~QC

I have no doubt.

txradioguy
01-25-2011, 08:11 AM
These are the same people that when a bullied kid fights back... they send EVERY DAMN BODY to be suspended. Logic and Education majors don't always go together.



You know I've never understood that kind of screwed up logic from the schools. I've had a couple of my kids get picked on and threatened with the same punishment as the kid that started everything. I've been real direct and to the point with a couple of principals over this stuff. They always seemed surprised when a parent asctually does show up to discuss these matters.

Novaheart
01-25-2011, 10:40 AM
Homicide is not culturally supported and statements like this as well as your other outbursts do nothing for your cause.

It isn't? Weren't you one of the ones who thought that ending DADT would lead to a rise of "accidental" deaths in the military? Well, if you weren't then consider the words of the Marine representative before the Senate (circa 1995) when he testified that he had a gay son whom he would love to see become a Marine, but that he would fear for his life.

Now, if we can't trust our uniformed soldiers to respect the lives of gay people, then exactly how would it be that you consider the murder of gay people to not be culturally supported?

Odysseus
01-25-2011, 12:20 PM
I don't know if these "gay lessons" are something that will be effective or not... but something needs to be done.

Kids AND authorities in school - teachers and the like - seem to be prejudiced.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2306v1
http://www.charlieglickman.com/2010/12/bullies-arent-just-other-kids-lgb-teens-get-harsher-treatment/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+CharlieGlickman+(Charlie+Glickm an)&utm_content=Google+Reader
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101206093707.htm



In fact, this study shows that openly gay kids are 40% more likely to be punished by authorities in school, despite no disparity in the amount of misconduct when compared with heterosexual kids.
:rolleyes: So, the prejudiced authorities punish the gay kids for no reason but their own bigotry and hatred of the other, but the students must be taught tolerance by those same authorities? Perhaps in Wilburtopia that makes sense, but anywhere else?

Math, science and history at the elementary school level shouldn't be used to manipulate children into accepting PC dogmas. Kids who can do math, understand science and are able to read at grade level are better able to make up their own minds than indoctrinated cogs.


And for todays geography lesson, Mt. Buttmore
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/queer20100201103510.jpg

ROFLOL!

I refuse to be a chaperone on the class spelunking trip.

noonwitch
01-25-2011, 12:29 PM
Exactly, to me the idea of hate crime is stupid, if you kill someone hate is along for the ride in most every case other than extreme emotional distress.

I agree with you on murder cases, and even in most assault cases, because the penalty for those crimes should be severe, regardless of the motives.


But when it comes to things like malicious destruction of property/graffiti, there's a hell of a difference between writing John loves Mary on a bus stop bench and spray-painting racial epiteths or "faggot" on someone's house. The intent is not just to destroy the property, but also to intimidate the owner. So I have no problem with adding an additional offense in those situations.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 01:20 PM
I agree with you on murder cases, and even in most assault cases, because the penalty for those crimes should be severe, regardless of the motives.


But when it comes to things like malicious destruction of property/graffiti, there's a hell of a difference between writing John loves Mary on a bus stop bench and spray-painting racial epiteths or "faggot" on someone's house. The intent is not just to destroy the property, but also to intimidate the owner. So I have no problem with adding an additional offense in those situations.

I'll give you that, big difference.

CueSi
01-25-2011, 01:32 PM
You know I've never understood that kind of screwed up logic from the schools. I've had a couple of my kids get picked on and threatened with the same punishment as the kid that started everything. I've been real direct and to the point with a couple of principals over this stuff. They always seemed surprised when a parent asctually does show up to discuss these matters.

I didn't understand that either as someone on the receiving end. My parents didn't fight for me till I reached middle school. And when I got to college and took my first couple education courses, I knew then and there, it takes some suspension of logic to get anywhere in the education field.

~QC

txradioguy
01-25-2011, 01:50 PM
I didn't understand that either as someone on the receiving end. My parents didn't fight for me till I reached middle school. And when I got to college and took my first couple education courses, I knew then and there, it takes some suspension of logic to get anywhere in the education field.

~QC

I have a general rule with all my kids...I'll defend you to hell and back...as long as you threw the second punch.

You start the fight...you're on your own with whatever the school wants to do with you...but I'll never fault you for defending yourself.

Hawkgirl
01-25-2011, 09:34 PM
If I can interject my .02, I do believe tolerance should be taught in elementary school, so kids should have a tolerant foundation as they grow. I do not believe sexuality should be a part of math, science, english, history etc. Tolerance should be taught at home, and perhaps reinforced in school when a teacher witnesses "bullying'...and that bullying can be aimed towards race, sexuality, or body habitus (fat).

However, tolerance doesn't mean forcing someone sexual disposition on children. In the example of the gay english professor, I wouldn't want a teacher to label him as a gay professor, anymore than we would label him a straight professor. It has no relevance to his career as a Professor.

This kind of stupidity really makes me steer away from public education.

Kay
01-25-2011, 10:27 PM
I have a general rule with all my kids...I'll defend you to hell and back...as long as you threw the second punch.

You start the fight...you're on your own with whatever the school wants to do with you...but I'll never fault you for defending yourself.

That sounds like an excellent policy Tx.

Odysseus
01-25-2011, 10:50 PM
So, totally unprejudiced and gay-loving Odysseus, what particular point in my post warranted this response? What did you object too?
Well, you, for the most part.

I linked a study showing that homosexual kids were punished more than heterosexual kids - do you object to that finding?
Actually, you linked to articles about the study. I didn't see any methodology or list of questions. Consequently, I don't know the validity of the results. The articles contained links to the site of the agency that conducted the study, but no data was available without a signed copy of the use agreement.


Please Note: Before the Add Health data set can be shipped, we must have a signed copy of the Use Agreement (fax copy is OK) in our office. The original is to be kept by the ordering institution or individual, and EVERY person who accesses the data set must read and sign the agreement. There is no need to send us additional copies of the agreement as new users add their signatures. However, the Carolina Population Center reserves the right to audit the Use Agreement Form.

The restriction on access to the data raises some eyebrows, since it means that the only evidence of the contents of the survey is the assertion of what it proves by those who are clearly sympathetic to the conclusions. Given that most media analysis of the DOD survey on DADT was contradicted by the actual survey, I'll take this with a salt lick.


I claimed that something needs to be done about this discrepancy, but made no particular claims about what should be done - so is it your position that nothing should be done?
My position is that I'd like more information before demanding a "reform" for a problem that may or may not exist.


I also made the inference that prejudice on the part of authority figures needs to be corrected... do you object to that?
If the prejudice exists. Again, methodology? How is the prejudice proven by the study? Is it anecdotal on the part of the survey participants? Is there an objective criteria for determining prejudice in the authority figures? Was the determination of wrongdoing based on the reports of the persons accused or was there objective evidence that proved their innocence?


If you have nothing to say on the above points, please... we are curious to know your thoughts on the findings that homosexuals are punished more often than heterosexuals, and we are dying to know what you think our response should be.

What do you mean by "we"? Do you now presume to speak for anyone else at CU? My response is that I want to know more about the survey before I propose fixes to problems that may be fabrications by people with an agenda. Your response should be the same, but given your homophilia, I expect that you will simply parrot this without any of the skepticism which someone who actually has any respect for the scientific method would have. You would have made a great lab tech for Lysenko.

Rockntractor
01-25-2011, 10:55 PM
Well, you, for the most part.

Actually, you linked to articles about the study. I didn't see any methodology or list of questions. Consequently, I don't know the validity of the results. The articles contained links to the site of the agency that conducted the study, but no data was available without a signed copy of the use agreement.



The restriction on access to the data raises some eyebrows, since it means that the only evidence of the contents of the survey is the assertion of what it proves by those who are clearly sympathetic to the conclusions. Given that most media analysis of the DOD survey on DADT was contradicted by the actual survey, I'll take this with a salt lick.


My position is that I'd like more information before demanding a "reform" for a problem that may or may not exist.


If the prejudice exists. Again, methodology? How is the prejudice proven by the study? Is it anecdotal on the part of the survey participants? Is there an objective criteria for determining prejudice in the authority figures? Was the determination of wrongdoing based on the reports of the persons accused or was there objective evidence that proved their innocence?



What do you mean by "we"? Do you now presume to speak for anyone else at CU? My response is that I want to know more about the survey before I propose fixes to problems that may be fabrications by people with an agenda. Your response should be the same, but given your homophilia, I expect that you will simply parrot this without any of the skepticism which someone who actually has any respect for the scientific method would have. You would have made a great lab tech for Lysenko.

Wilbur is here too!:D
http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=36356

Shannon
01-25-2011, 10:58 PM
If I can interject my .02, I do believe tolerance should be taught in elementary school, so kids should have a tolerant foundation as they grow. I do not believe sexuality should be a part of math, science, english, history etc. Tolerance should be taught at home, and perhaps reinforced in school when a teacher witnesses "bullying'...and that bullying can be aimed towards race, sexuality, or body habitus (fat).

However, tolerance doesn't mean forcing someone sexual disposition on children. In the example of the gay english professor, I wouldn't want a teacher to label him as a gay professor, anymore than we would label him a straight professor. It has no relevance to his career as a Professor.

This kind of stupidity really makes me steer away from public education.

"Tolerance" should not be taught in schools.

Hawkgirl
01-25-2011, 11:02 PM
"Tolerance" should not be taught in schools.

It should be taught in schools AND in the home. A school does have a responsibility to protect our children, and most bullying stems from intolerance. (to one thing or another)

Shannon
01-25-2011, 11:08 PM
It should be taught in schools AND in the home. A school does have a responsibility to protect our children, and most bullying stems from intolerance. (to one thing or another)

I am responsible for teaching my child anything outside of the realm of "The Three R's". The public school system struggles enough with those...

PoliCon
01-25-2011, 11:57 PM
It should be taught in schools AND in the home. A school does have a responsibility to protect our children, and most bullying stems from intolerance. (to one thing or another)

The problem is the public schools spend more time on social engineering than they do in teach actual academics. Reality is - you want your kids to feel good about themselves and to be tolerant - teach them how to both fail and succeed.

Odysseus
01-26-2011, 11:17 AM
"Tolerance" should not be taught in schools.


It should be taught in schools AND in the home. A school does have a responsibility to protect our children, and most bullying stems from intolerance. (to one thing or another)

You're both right. Real tolerance, as in, keep your hands to yourself and don't pick on the odd kid, should be taught in schools. Touchy-feely, "I'm okay, you're a racist white male" BS is completely out of line. The former allows teachers to maintain order in the classroom and focus on education. It's a discipline issue. The latter is social engineering and detracts from education.

But, in the interests of those who wish to teach gay math (and the sheer pleasure of watching Wilbur's head explode), a few sample problems:


If Johnny has a butt plug with a diameter of 2" and a length of 4", and his anus has a diameter of 1", how much intestine will the emergency room staff have to cut away to get it out?
If 25% of gay men are HIV positive, and Freddy hooks up with 8 men at a bathhouse in one night, how many of those men will infect him?
If a train leaves Chicago and travels to New York at 70 MPH, and it takes five minutes to give a blow job, how many men can Freddy satisfy on a 500 mile trip?
Freddy's contact trace lists 1,500 partners over his lifetime. If 75% of those were one night stands, how many partners will be close enough to attend his funeral?
L'Wanda Gonzales is a half-Latina, half-African American lesbian of color with a GPA of 1.5. She is applying for a college whose admissions department seeks an average GPA of 3.5. How many affirmative action quotas will she have to fill in order to make up the difference?
If a sex toy is packed in a box that is 3"X3"X12", and the display case has a total vollume of 6 cubic feet, how many dildos can be stacked in the case?

Hawkgirl
01-26-2011, 05:28 PM
You're both right. Real tolerance, as in, keep your hands to yourself and don't pick on the odd kid, should be taught in schools. Touchy-feely, "I'm okay, you're a racist white male" BS is completely out of line. The former allows teachers to maintain order in the classroom and focus on education. It's a discipline issue. The latter is social engineering and detracts from education.

But, in the interests of those who wish to teach gay math (and the sheer pleasure of watching Wilbur's head explode), a few sample problems:


If Johnny has a butt plug with a diameter of 2" and a length of 4", and his anus has a diameter of 1", how much intestine will the emergency room staff have to cut away to get it out?
If 25% of gay men are HIV positive, and Freddy hooks up with 8 men at a bathhouse in one night, how many of those men will infect him?
If a train leaves Chicago and travels to New York at 70 MPH, and it takes five minutes to give a blow job, how many men can Freddy satisfy on a 500 mile trip?
Freddy's contact trace lists 1,500 partners over his lifetime. If 75% of those were one night stands, how many partners will be close enough to attend his funeral?
L'Wanda Gonzales is a half-Latina, half-African American lesbian of color with a GPA of 1.5. She is applying for a college whose admissions department seeks an average GPA of 3.5. How many affirmative action quotas will she have to fill in order to make up the difference?
If a sex toy is packed in a box that is 3"X3"X12", and the display case has a total vollume of 6 cubic feet, how many dildos can be stacked in the case?



OMG...LOlllllllllllllllllll

Odysseus
01-26-2011, 07:35 PM
OMG...LOlllllllllllllllllll

If you think that's bad, you should see the quadratic equations. :D

CueSi
01-27-2011, 03:22 AM
You're both right. Real tolerance, as in, keep your hands to yourself and don't pick on the odd kid, should be taught in schools. Touchy-feely, "I'm okay, you're a racist white male" BS is completely out of line. The former allows teachers to maintain order in the classroom and focus on education. It's a discipline issue. The latter is social engineering and detracts from education.

But, in the interests of those who wish to teach gay math (and the sheer pleasure of watching Wilbur's head explode), a few sample problems:


If Johnny has a butt plug with a diameter of 2" and a length of 4", and his anus has a diameter of 1", how much intestine will the emergency room staff have to cut away to get it out?

If a sex toy is packed in a box that is 3"X3"X12", and the display case has a total vollume of 6 cubic feet, how many dildos can be stacked in the case?


On the first one- - only if it was jammed in there unlubricated.

One. it's a display case for a reason. . . and it's not in the box. Now if you said the shipping container from DocJohnson or whomever... I'd have to know the material , if it's vibrates or is plain... :p

~QC

Odysseus
01-27-2011, 11:14 AM
On the first one- - only if it was jammed in there unlubricated.

One. it's a display case for a reason. . . and it's not in the box. Now if you said the shipping container from DocJohnson or whomever... I'd have to know the material , if it's vibrates or is plain... :p

~QC

There is a great joke that's a variation on the first one:

How many pervs does it take to put in a lightbulb?
One, but it takes the entire emergency room staff to get it out.

As for the second, I confess that I was waiting for you to reply. :D