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Gingersnap
01-27-2011, 12:37 PM
Himalayan glaciers not melting because of climate change, report finds

Himalayan glaciers are actually advancing rather than retreating, claims the first major study since a controversial UN report said they would be melted within quarter of a century.

http://i51.tinypic.com/dr3zut.jpg

The key factor affecting the advance or retreat of the Karakoram glaciers is the amount of debris strewn on their surface. The Passu glacier in the Karakorum region of Pakistan Photo: ALAMY

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi and Richard Alleyne 6:00AM GMT 27 Jan 2011

Researchers have discovered that contrary to popular belief half of the ice flows in the Karakoram range of the mountains are actually growing rather than shrinking.

The discovery adds a new twist to the row over whether global warming is causing the world's highest mountain range to lose its ice cover.

It further challenges claims made in a 2007 report by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that the glaciers would be gone by 2035.

Although the head of the panel Dr Rajendra Pachauri later admitted the claim was an error gleaned from unchecked research, he maintained that global warming was melting the glaciers at "a rapid rate", threatening floods throughout north India.

The new study by scientists at the Universities of California and Potsdam has found that half of the glaciers in the Karakoram range, in the northwestern Himlaya, are in fact advancing and that global warming is not the deciding factor in whether a glacier survives or melts.

Dr Bodo Bookhagen, Dirk Scherler and Manfred Strecker studied 286 glaciers between the Hindu Kush on the Afghan-Pakistan border to Bhutan, taking in six areas.

Their report, published in the journal Nature Geoscience, found the key factor affecting their advance or retreat is the amount of debris rocks and mud strewn on their surface, not the general nature of climate change.

Glaciers surrounded by high mountains and covered with more than two centimetres of debris are protected from melting.

Debris-covered glaciers are common in the rugged central Himalaya, but they are almost absent in subdued landscapes on the Tibetan Plateau, where retreat rates are higher.

In contrast, more than 50 per cent of observed glaciers in the Karakoram region in the northwestern Himalaya are advancing or stable.

"Our study shows that there is no uniform response of Himalayan glaciers to climate change and highlights the importance of debris cover for understanding glacier retreat, an effect that has so far been neglected in predictions of future water availability or global sea level," the authors concluded.

Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/8284223/Himalayan-glaciers-not-melting-because-of-climate-change-report-finds.html)

djones520
01-27-2011, 12:47 PM
See, Global Warming is causing more sever winters, thereby causing more snow, which means the glaciers will grow. So glaciers growing means global warming is occuring and caused by man.

Don't bother posting our local AGW apologists. I already got your meme covered.

Odysseus
01-27-2011, 02:34 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/8284223/Himalayan-glaciers-not-melting-because-of-climate-change-report-finds.html

Himalayan glaciers are actually advancing rather than retreating, claims the first major study since a controversial UN report said they would be melted within quarter of a century.

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi and Richard Alleyne 6:00AM GMT 27 Jan 2011 214 Comments
Researchers have discovered that contrary to popular belief half of the ice flows in the Karakoram range of the mountains are actually growing rather than shrinking.

The discovery adds a new twist to the row over whether global warming is causing the world's highest mountain range to lose its ice cover.

It further challenges claims made in a 2007 report by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that the glaciers would be gone by 2035.

Although the head of the panel Dr Rajendra Pachauri later admitted the claim was an error gleaned from unchecked research, he maintained that global warming was melting the glaciers at "a rapid rate", threatening floods throughout north India.

The new study by scientists at the Universities of California and Potsdam has found that half of the glaciers in the Karakoram range, in the northwestern Himlaya, are in fact advancing and that global warming is not the deciding factor in whether a glacier survives or melts.

Dr Bodo Bookhagen, Dirk Scherler and Manfred Strecker studied 286 glaciers between the Hindu Kush on the Afghan-Pakistan border to Bhutan, taking in six areas.

Their report, published in the journal Nature Geoscience, found the key factor affecting their advance or retreat is the amount of debris rocks and mud strewn on their surface, not the general nature of climate change.

Glaciers surrounded by high mountains and covered with more than two centimetres of debris are protected from melting.

Debris-covered glaciers are common in the rugged central Himalaya, but they are almost absent in subdued landscapes on the Tibetan Plateau, where retreat rates are higher.

In contrast, more than 50 per cent of observed glaciers in the Karakoram region in the northwestern Himalaya are advancing or stable.

"Our study shows that there is no uniform response of Himalayan glaciers to climate change and highlights the importance of debris cover for understanding glacier retreat, an effect that has so far been neglected in predictions of future water availability or global sea level," the authors concluded.

Dr Bookhagen said their report had shown "there is no stereotypical Himalayan glacier" in contrast to the UN's climate change report which, he said, "lumps all Himalayan glaciers together."

Dr Pachauri, head of the Nobel prize-winning UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, has remained silent on the matter since he was forced to admit his report's claim that the Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035 was an error and had not been sourced from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. It came from a World Wildlife Fund report.

He angered India's environment minister and the country's leading glaciologist when he attacked those who questioned his claim as purveyors of "voodoo science".

The environment Minister Jairam Ramesh had cited research indicating some Himalayan glaciers were advancing in the face of the UN's claim.

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In a related story, steam coming from the ears of AGW advocates outraged by this report may have an impact on local temperatures. Proposals to reduce their carbon emissions by placing airtight bags over their heads have been met with skepticism by all sides, although surveys note that people who spend a great deal of time in close proximity to Warmistas are 77% more likely to favor the approach. :D

Arroyo_Doble
01-27-2011, 02:48 PM
See, Global Warming is causing more sever winters, thereby causing more snow, which means the glaciers will grow. So glaciers growing means global warming is occuring and caused by man.

Don't bother posting our local AGW apologists. I already got your meme covered.

I think it is covered in the article.


Glaciers surrounded by high mountains and covered with more than two centimetres of debris are protected from melting.

Debris-covered glaciers are common in the rugged central Himalaya, but they are almost absent in subdued landscapes on the Tibetan Plateau, where retreat rates are higher.

In contrast, more than 50 per cent of observed glaciers in the Karakoram region in the northwestern Himalaya are advancing or stable.

Odysseus
01-27-2011, 04:19 PM
I think it is covered in the article.


Glaciers surrounded by high mountains and covered with more than two centimetres of debris are protected from melting.

Debris-covered glaciers are common in the rugged central Himalaya, but they are almost absent in subdued landscapes on the Tibetan Plateau, where retreat rates are higher.

In contrast, more than 50 per cent of observed glaciers in the Karakoram region in the northwestern Himalaya are advancing or stable.

Advancing means that they are getting larger, not smaller.

ironhorsedriver
01-27-2011, 05:46 PM
Advancing means that they are getting larger, not smaller.
How dare you let facts and truth get in the way of THE MESSAGE.

Arroyo_Doble
01-27-2011, 09:07 PM
Advancing means that they are getting larger, not smaller.

Yes. And?

Articulate_Ape
01-27-2011, 10:03 PM
Yes. And?

You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you.

Rockntractor
01-27-2011, 10:04 PM
You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you.

Dolby is the master at that!:D

Arroyo_Doble
01-28-2011, 10:03 AM
You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you.

There was some sarcasm about the spin that would be placed on the finding by those who believe in AGW and I continued in that vein by pointing out that there already was a built in excuse (debris covering the glaciers advancing or remaining constant while those free of debris were retreating). That is all.

Someone sees an individual (me) who does not think exactly like them on every fucking issue and assumes that means they disagree on every fucking issue. In this case, AGW, which is an issue I lean a great deal toward the skeptical category. Hope that clears things up.

Odysseus
01-28-2011, 10:09 AM
Yes. And?
Expanding glaciers aren't melting.

There was some sarcasm about the spin that would be placed on the finding by those who believe in AGW and I continued in that vein by pointing out that there already was a built in excuse (debris covering the glaciers advancing or remaining constant while those free of debris were retreating). That is all.

Someone sees an individual (me) who does not think exactly like them on every fucking issue and assumes that means they disagree on every fucking issue. In this case, AGW, which is an issue I lean a great deal toward the skeptical category. Hope that clears things up.

Admittedly, your positions on the issues that we do disagree on suggest a pattern of positions. I am always happy to see you agree with me, as opposed to when Wei or Wilbur does, as that just means that I was wrong. :D

AmPat
01-28-2011, 03:13 PM
What? Ice melts?:rolleyes:

Odysseus
01-28-2011, 04:16 PM
What? Ice melts?:rolleyes:

Yes. That's why you should use fresh ice every time you shake a martini.

Sonnabend
01-30-2011, 03:34 AM
And another nail in Wilbur's supposed "expertise" appears. No doubt he will dismiss this as he will state it isn't "peer reviewed"...wilburspeak for "lalalala I cant hear you".